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Guess which Ford SUV did tip up...unfortunately, its easy, because it looks like all of them did, even the Escape. Ford just doesnt seem to care about rollovers!
When I look up the results on the NHTSA site, the 05 Outback got a 15% chance of rollover, the 05 CR-V's a 19% chance (not 18) and the early 05 Escape/ Mazda 20% (4wd) 23% (2wd). There are no test results for the later 05 builds of the Escape / Mazda twins.
The CR-V and Escape/Tribute rank at the lower end of rollover possibilities for all SUV's ......
:shades:
The 2005 CR-V has standard stability control as standard equipment. Do the Mazda/Ford twins have this feature?
In the rollover test, the vehicle is moving and attempts an evasive maneuver. In any case, it all depends on how environmental conditions and the skill of the driver. In my opinion, 1% is not that big of a deal. This is quoted from the NHTSA's safercar.gov site, Rollover FAQ:
3. Are SUVs the only vehicles that roll over?
No. A rollover crash can happen in any type of vehicle. SUVs, like pickup trucks and minivans, typically ride higher off the ground than passenger cars and have higher centers of gravity, and thus are more susceptible to rollover if involved in a single-vehicle crash. See the vehicle class comparison chart. But while vehicle type does play a significant role, other factors such as driver behavior and road and environmental conditions also help determine whether or not a vehicle rolls over.
Even a five-star vehicle has up to a 10% risk of rolling over in a single-vehicle crash. In fact, certain five-star vehicles, such as sports cars, may have a higher number of rollovers per 100 registered vehicles than certain three-star vehicles, such as minivans, due to the aggressive way in which the vehicle is driven and/or the age and skill of the driver.
I have also read many posts where owners override their stability and traction control systems because it "takes away" from their control of the vehicle. The one thing that Ford/Mazda did do was improve the rollover cage and side airbag systems of the 05 vehicles, which should reduce injuries and deaths during rollovers.
Well, I was interested that they added VSC to the CR-V at all. My 2003 is probably one of the most stable vehicles I've ever driven in a turn. Very solid, never any feeling of tipping or nearing out-of-control. But I always keep in mind that it has a high center of gravity.
Of course, I've never owned a BMW...
All SUVs have an increased risk of roll over when compared to your typical car because of the higher center of gravity. As mentioned in the posts above, there are a lot of variables that influence whether or not a vehicle rolls over during a particular maneuver. Taking account of the vehicle's limitations and inherent risks in your driving style will reduce your chances of a rollover considerably, regardless of what you buy.
For me personnally, I was also a little spooked by the note from Consumer's Reports about the Escape/Tribute, but I got over that enough to give it a test drive. It's your call, but I don't think the increased risk with the Escape/Tribute, relative to other vehicles in class, is great enough to reject it out of hand. I opted for the CR-V instead, but not because of any worries about roll overs.
I visit quite a few Tribute/Escape message boards, and I have never heard of any owners complaining of rollover/tipping issues. I just do not know how big of an issue this really is, and I would be more concerned about front and side crash ratings on the vehicle.
I personally hope that that future Escape/Tributes will offer VSC as standard equipment since it is the best selling small SUV, and other companies such as Honda and Hyundai/Kia are starting to make this standard on some of their SUV lines.
There are a lot of variables controlling those scores too. So don't take them too seriously either. Use them, but don't live by them. No pun intended. :P
I personally hope that that future Escape/Tributes will offer VSC as standard equipment since it is the best selling small SUV, and other companies such as Honda and Hyundai/Kia are starting to make this standard on some of their SUV lines.
FWIW Ford did make it's AdvanceTrak with RSC (Roll Stability Control) standard on all of its SUVs except for the Escape. Why? I don't know, but if they do offer it on the Escape it will virtually "one-up" the CR-V and others simply because of the RSC. That system was developed by Volvo for the XC90 and actually helps prevent rollovers. All of the other stability control systems, such as Ford's AdvanceTrak and Honda's VSC, only get you out of a skid (and even that isn't guaranteed). A lot of skids can lead to rollovers but you still do have to induce a skid for those "skid only" systems to react. Ford/Volvo's RSC will help you out of a rollover without a skid.
However, were I shopping today, I would not exclude the Escape just because of the "tippy" issue. I would just realize that the driver has to be more cautious. All SUVs are top heavy. If you want a sporty SUV, buy a BMW X3 or X5.
Finally, an intelligent approach...
The English show called Fifth Gear, a video car magazine (see Speed Channel) had a feature on rollovers. They did a test which showed a mid 90s Range Rover tipping and rolling in the same maneuver the NHTSA is doing now. The RR went tumbling at only 40 mph with no impact at all.
Guys, this thing is real. You can say that a car will roll too....if it hits a curb...if its poorly loaded etc. But all SUVs have greater risk and now the tests prove it. There are, however, huge differences between the various models. I suppose that my anti-Ford bias comes from the years they devoted to fighting these dynamic tests.
Fact is these vehicles are not race cars nor made for the slalom course. They are ALL top heavy and will roll when pushed the wrong way BY THE DRIVER.
I read in an auto news blurb, (I will try to find it again on the net) that Ford is going to put a stability control system on the Escape/Mariner/Tribute but not until its totally new redesign in the 06/07 year.
At least on the Escape I drove, and the CR-V I drive daily.
Keep in mind that this applies to pre MY05 Escapes and CR-Vs. 2005 Escape numbers haven't changed much from past models but the CR-V did add bigger wheels/tires for MY05 so things might be different now. I haven't had the interest to look the numbers up.
I wonder what MB engineers say about this...
Unfortunately, there are no MB engineers anymore, only DC engineers. The product is worse for the merger, in my opinion.
BTW, I stand by my assessment of the comparative driving characteristics, also in my opinion.
Well, that's a possibility, maybe the Tribute handling is more like the CR-V.
When I was shopping for SUV's in November, I had the V6 S AWD Tribute ranked #1 in handling and fun-to-drive factor (comparing to CRV, Rav4, Tucson, Escape, Outlander). The CRV was up there though, and I had it ranked right behind the Tribute/Escape. The CRV obviously had some advantages of its own, to include overall interior space, and gas mileage (not to mention those stereo controls on the steering wheel for the CRV SE. I love that feature)
Took this review of the 05 Mazda Tribute from both Edmunds and New Car Test Drive:
" Mazda markets the Tribute as the Miata of SUVs, and the claim isn't far off the mark. With a wide track and powerful V6, the Tribute handles better than most SUVs on the road, driving more like a sporty car than a truck."
and
"Driving Impressions:
The Mazda Tribute is an agile and powerful little SUV. It handles better than other sport-utilities. Its sharp steering allows the driver to guide it precisely. At high speeds, the Tribute is supremely stable. Handling response is relatively taut, without that mushiness that characterizes SUVs with big off-road tires and long-travel suspensions. Tribute handles better on the road than a Jeep Liberty, and it's more fun to drive than a Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4. Noise, vibration and harshness levels are low when underway.
Steering response is direct and accurate without a big dead spot in the center. There's enough feeling in the steering to give the driver a good sense of control. The tires provide respectable grip in paved corners. The Tribute offers surprisingly good transient response in left-right-left lane-change maneuvers. The suspensions on front-wheel-drive (2WD) and four-wheel-drive (4WD) versions are identical, so there's no ride-quality penalty with 4WD.
The Tribute's ride quality is smoother and more sophisticated than that of the other compact sport utilities. It offers firm damping and a good control of body motions. The 2005 Tribute benefits has increased spring rates and a larger front stabilizer bar. "
I think that Mazda engineered the Tribute to be sporty as part of their "Zoom, Zoom" campaign. I really did find the Tribute to be the most fun-to-drive small SUV in its class (well, except for the Subaru Forester Turbo), and I almost prefer driving it to my 2002 245hp Nissan Altima SE. Sure the Altima is much faster, but the Tribute really moves, and handles extremely well... I now have close to 6K miles on my Tribute, and I have just recently started to open this vehicle up more and it is sometimes scary how much power this little SUV has...
I am going to sell it right away and buy a Honda. Yes, a Honda it will be much more reliable, more of everything..
The small squeak from my stearing wheel when I turn is what I am talking about! This is terrible quality, terrible reliabitliy that all the Honda folks talk about. I will never, ever buy another Ford again! :P
I think it's called sarcasm. Some can deliver it better than others but it's often used when one has run out of serious debating points.
I also think it's best to stick to the facts and straightforward discussion of the issues.
tidester, host
In regards to sarcasm, it is the lowest form of wit and difficult to pull off in writting.
Honda runs on a 5 year product cycle, which means that every 5 years they come out with a completely new design. Ford runs a longer cycle. Since this will be the first update to the Escape (yes, I know they changed the sheet metal for 2005, and some mechanical components on the transmission), we don't really know when Ford will do a complete update.
BTW, Ford did not "get the jump" on the CR-V; the CR-V 2 was introduced 5 years before the Escape. The "jump" you refer to is the 2nd generation update to the CR-V.
Thats it! I'm done! [scape2]... I will never, ever buy another Ford again!
You don't have to be funny again
(Big Brother Host is watching)
... but anything could happen:
Gloria Steinem ... got married,
Scape2 ... sells his Ford and buys Honda CR-V.....
This post might also be a test for sense of humor for tidester_HOST
Correction:
Gloria Steinem retired, got married and buys Ford Hybrid (her husband is a man, Ford chief engineer is a woman and Hybrid saves environment). Sigh!
tidester, host
P.S. Did I pass??
This is a significant blow that will increase borrowing costs and limit fund-raising options for the nation's two biggest automakers.
Shares of both companies fell 5 percent or more after Thursday's downgrades, and the news sent the overall market lower.
Inside Line
Steve, Host
Ford's RSC (Roll Stability Control), which is packaged with their AdvanceTrac stability control, does prevent rollovers. It was invented by Volvo for the XC90 and incorporates several sensors around the vehicle as well as a gyroscopic sensor that informs the rest of the system that a rollover is imminent. If that's the case the system will do whatever it can to prevent the rollover.
C'mon scape!!!! I've typed this out like three times on this thread. Pay attention!!!!!
Because you can't go to a dealer and buy one of those right now unless it's used. Testing organizations always use current models.
One big problem with these tests is that when you hear about them on the news they usually don't mention the model year. All you hear is "The Honda CR-V scored very well in a safety test" or something to that effect. If someone looking for a used CR-V hears that they might become mis-informed because it seems like all CR-Vs are like the one tested.
Even with controls the CRV was not that much better than the Escape!
I gotcha the first time.
This is another problem with the tests. When two vehicles score so close together the results when comparing the two basically become a wash. But because of little dots, stars, colors, etc. the difference can look huge on paper. If they used some sort of bar graphs or other charting method I think we'd all see things a bit clearer.
As to the Ford not having VSA, so what? They choose not to include it. For that matter, I can't find an Escape in my area that has side or curtain airbags. Safety is not a priority, as it is with Honda. Regardless, it seems rather silly to insist the comparison be fair, as they are not equal vehicles. The Honda doesn't have a V6, but that doesn't mean you can't compare them. This seems like a rather intuitive point, but it seems necessary to point this out.
Finally, there is one HUGE difference in this test: the Escapes tipped, the CRVs did not. I don't care that the percentage is only 1% apart, the difference between not tipping and tipping is a huge difference, especially when you are talking about the safety of your family. Granted, the Honda can't tow a semi and doesn't have a payload of a zillion pounds, like the Escape, but it does have it's advantages in areas like fuel economy and safety.
As far as the person "not being able to find an Escape with side air bags".. I can give you 11 Ford dealerships in my area that have over 60 Escapes with side air bags... The Ford Escape/Tribute are not unsafe.
Yeah. About the same as the Ford now. Check out the safety ratings of a 2004 Honda CRV, which was before the VSA system, and you'll see.
Besides, as I attempted to explain previously, this test is a radical maneuver. As an aggressive safety system, the Honda is designed to keep this from ever happening. It's called prevention. I don't know how else to explain it.
"Smaller tires/wheels and taller body to boot."
You MIGHT want to check your facts. The Ford is taller AND narrower. And the wheels on both vehicles are both 16 inches. You really need to research more before making statements like this.
"Your post makes the Escape sound like a death trap. When in fact it does score very well when equipped with air bags/side air bags."
Never said the Escape wasn't safe. It just isn't as safe as the Honda. Honda equips EACH and every CR-V with front, side and curtain airbags, VSA, EBD and ABS. Ford's only come standard with ABS and front airbags. It can't be ordered with VSA. With the higher safety ratings, more standard safety features, and more available safety features overall, the Honda is the safer vehicle.
You can spin it all you want but the Honda system absolutely does not prevent a rollover in any way shape or form. It prevents spins and skids such as "fish tailing".
The ONLY rollover control system is owned and installed by Ford. Why they don't put it in the Escape too is beyond me. If you want to find out more about it go to Ford's website (I believe Volvo's site has some info on it too under the XC90's pages). The big difference between an actual rollover control system and a run-of-the-mill stability control system is basically one sensor. One ingenious sensor actually.
I think the CR-V being lower to the ground has more to do with it not tipping than anything else.
We just happen to have a dedicated forum about it too, for your reading pleasure:
Stability Control, are you ready for it?
Steve, Host
While I agree that VSA does help, it also costs money. Why shouldn't the consumer have that choice? I am a member of a number of Escape/Tribute forums and I have never, not once, heard of a user complaining of tipping or rolling over. I think that the media tends to over hype how dangerous SUV's can be. I feel more safe (and mine does have side curtain airbags) in my Tribute than any car I have ever owned.
There is talk on other message boards of Ford adding the rollover system (which was developed by Volvo I believe) to future Escape's. I doubt it will be standard, but I had no problem finding a Tribute with side airbags when I purchased.