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Detroit, Michigan - Forty-eight automotive journalists from the United States and Canada have selected the Chrysler 300/300C as the North American Car of the Year. The Ford Escape Hybrid was chosen as the North American Truck of the Year...
...The finalists for the North American Truck of the Year were the Ford Escape Hybrid, the Ford Freestyle and the Land Rover LR3.
Each juror was given 25 points to divide among cars and 25 points to divide among trucks. However, no more than 10 points may be given to a single car and a single truck. That means the most points a car or truck could get for 2005 would be 480 points.
The Chrysler 300 got 313 points, the Ford Mustang 256 and the Corvette 108. The Ford Escape Hybrid got 232 points, the Land Rover LR3 got 163 and the Ford Freestyle 148.
Here are the vehicles on which the jurors voted:
North American Truck of the Year:
Chevrolet Equinox
Dodge Dakota
Ford Escape Hybrid
Ford Freestyle
Ford F-Series Super Duty
Hyundai Tucson
Infiniti QX56
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Land Rover LR3
Nissan Frontier
Nissan Pathfinder
Toyota Tacoma
Yes, I am conspiracy man! There are agents after me that wear dark suits and sunglasses. Each agent wears a silver "H" on his left pocket of the suit.. Oh man.. its late and I'm tired...
Did you know the Freestyle beat the Pacifica in a Motor Trend shootout last month?
Steve, Host
Prices might come down even more when Chinese will start making hybrid cars.
Recently Toyota transferred hybrid technology to China which they will surely steal, like they steal everything else: CD's, DVD's, medication drugs and even Boeing planes.
Counterfeiting and pirating are at the heart of the Chinese economic boom. As unethical or illegal as it might be, the Chinese government is not about to stop it. Toyota's move into China could even transform the automotive industry by luring car buyers into hybrids faster. In effect, Toyota may be hoping to ride China's copycat tendencies past American competitors and into the top spot among world car makers -- provided, of course, that Chinese manufacturers do not do to Toyota what they did to Japan's motorcycle makers. Ha! Ha!
When China will start mass producing hybrids for 1/3 of the normal price, then ... .
Hybrids are basically "big batteries on wheels".
But where Chinese will get the batteries?
tidester, host
I posted links to prices people are paying that are at or below invoice. And people are even paying below the revered TMV.
Are all those people lying?
In the same link it explains how the true dealer cost is actually below the generally accepted published invoice price.
Do you not believe that?
To use your terminology. I have proved YOU (and apparently the other dealer here) WRONG.
Just for fun, here's another link to a person paying below invoice. It's message #1434
bshel, "Honda CR-V: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #1423, 7 Jan 2005 1:25 pm
YOU ARE WRONG.
Many companies push for sales at the end of a quarter (mine certainly does). So if they robbed from Peter to pay Paul it will show up in '05 sales, no?
As for people getting good deals in November and December and not thinking those prices will last. Nothing has changed at the dealer here. Still advertising the same prices. Also see the link above to see how people are getting good deals in January. As some will in February, March etc. Others will get bad deals as well.
Here's the Problems link:
KarenS, "Ford Escape/Tribute Owners: Problems & Solutions" #2705, 13 Jan 2005 4:18 pm
I haven't checked to see if it'll stay linked to SUVs (most likely it will).
Steve, Host
I'm in the process of selling my '03 CRV for <possibly> an '04 or '05 Escape XLT.
They're greate little trucks. The finishings, features and V6 has me seriously eyeing it. But my view of the Escape is tainted with horror stories about reliability (i.e. engines and transmissions being replaced after a year).
Does anyone have any hard evidence regarding reliability of newer Escapes vs. CRVs (or other SUVs)? Possible a link to a website or document?
If I could be convinced that Escapes are marginally equal in reliability to a CRV, I'm sold!
Thanks,
Marc
The same reports do rank vehicles like the CR-V, RAV4, and Element significantly higher, though.
As for my area (Northern Virginia) I got as many quotes as possible in mid November on both CRV's and Pilots and could not get the dealers to go down to invoice or lower. One of my friends just bought an 05 CRV (last week) and he paid about $500 over invoice (not including freight, and TTL).
But I do believe you
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html?- tid=edmunds.h..edmundsonly..2.*
Just because you pay invoice or less on your new car does not mean that the dealer does not get you with your trade in, or with a high finance rate
And I am not trying to rain on anyone's party
Any comments?
Has the wheelbase changed between inception to the 2005 models?
I think you want a wider track, not a longer wheelbase. And, no, Ford has not changed the track or anything else to address that concern.
FWIW, the CR-V has not been tested. Last I checked, it was unrated for that test. It's very possible the Honda will also tip up during testing. Tipping is a risk with any tall vehicle.
That said, the '05 CR-V comes with Stability Control as standard equipment. This can help prevent you from getting into the kind of situation that results in tipping.
I typically do not keep cars more than 4 years or so, so I typically do not need these warranties. However, I learned a tough lesson with a Volkswagen Jetta I bought in 1999.. Most of the car was covered under a 2yr 24K warranty and sure enough the car started falling apart at the 2.5 yr mark and I was dumping money into it almost every month..
I would recommend buying the car and if you decide you want to keep it long term (more then 4-5 years) then I would recommend purchasing an warranty
As in the case of my Volkswagen, the extra 1K would have been worth it if not for the piece of mind
Either way, the Escape/Tribute is actually in the upper tier of SUV's for rollover, and the 05 year also brought about side curtain airbags (which stay inflated longer in the event of a rollover), as well as a cannopy desinged to protect the passengers during a rollover.
It really comes down to drivers of SUV's understanding the dangers of sitting up higher, and the risks associated with driving your SUV like a sports car. Quickly changing lanes and turning in any vehicle while driving at excessive speeds is dangerous, but especially in an SUV (stability control or not).
I cannot remember ever hearing of any serious issues with Escape/Tribute owners having rollover issues..
The '05 CR-V actually has two kinds of side airbags and I've read posts from some folks who have been confused by it. Both are standard, so the content list can require a double take.
http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2004/pr121004.htm
I've sent a note to the Edmunds editors noting that they to do not list AB2 Side Air Bags as an option on 05 Tributes, since they are $250 more than the AB1 side air bags used before 08/04.
Another "not to be named site" that you can check for invoice / MSRP prices does list both option types. If you are looking for a 05 Tribute and want the extra protection, make sure you get one with the AB2 side air bags option manufactured after 08/17/04. Another thing to note, AB2 is only avialable on Tribute S V6 models, not the Tribute I with the 4 cylinder engine.
We bought our '05 last June and it only has the curtains. Nearly all of the one's on the lot now with the saftety canopy will have the curtains and the seat mounted bags.
As far as stability control goes, yes it can get you out of trouble at times but just don't hit a curb or go from road to grass or you'll roll anyway. Usually it will help keep you out of the skid that will push you into that curb or grass/mud/etc. but not always so don't think you're immune to rollover if you choose to buy a vehicle equipped with it.
Also, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't believe the CR-V's system prevents rollovers like the Volvo XC90's system does (will be standard in most Ford SUVs this year).
This may be in the wrong spot, but since it was discussed above, I just bought an 05 CR-V LX for $100 UNDER invoice, including mudflaps, wheel locks, all-season mats, and the cargo cover tossed in for free. No trade in or financing...
Bought at Beaudry Honda in Tucson, AZ, this was the best deal I found in Arizona (Tucson also has the lowest tax rate of AZ cities
My personal opinion is to go with the V6. These are a hoot to drive with a V6. If you plan on doing any towing of a small trailer/boat or watercraft (like I have) the V6 will handle light towing with ease with plenty of power left over to carry passengers and gear. Test drive! its free! Let us know what you decide to get...
Steve, Host
I read a while back that Ford was going to introduce the Volvo system to their SUV line, but the same article stated they would not include their "car-based" SUVs. They specifically mentioned the Escape, but this was before the Freestyle hit the market. Have they changed their minds?
Adding the Volvo system to the Escape is still up in the air from what I've read and I'm pretty sure the same goes for the Freestyle.
Right now you can buy any other truck based Ford SUV and get the system, which includes AdvanceTrack stability/skid control as well as the Roll Stability Control, standard.
I'm not sure why they left the Escape off of the list so far. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Since the '05 Escape came out so early I'm wondering if it was too late to incorporate it. All of the other SUVs they put it in are 2005 models but they didn't start building them until after July. So maybe we'll see the systems on the '06 Escape.
Look out for a slightly detuned version for the MAZDASPEED3 shortly after the MPS6 arrives.
There's probably not much more to squeeze out of the 2.3. Maybe 200 HP max and then what would you do with all the V6 models that pile up on lots?
My guess it you won't see a power bump in the I4 models (I'm talking about the Escape/Tribute/etc. again) until after the 3.5L Duratec makes its debut.
But now someone is "praying" that Ford puts in a more powerful 4 cylinder.
Feel free to explain.
I think that a V6 in a vehicle the size of a CRV, Escape, RAV4 etc. is simply overkill.
I'd much rather get close to 30MPG with an I4 then struggle to get 20 with a V6 just so I can say I have 50 extra horsepower under the hood.
With gas running $2 a gallon or more I just don't understand the need for all that power ... particularly if the car is used as a suburban run about.
This reasoning extends to the next class of SUVs up as well. Many SUVs in the Ford Explorer, Honda Pilot, Nissan Pathfinder range now boast 250-300 horsepower and 4.0L + engines.
Honestly, why? Unless you're towing something very heavy, you're just wasting fuel. I actually almost bought a Pilot ... until I discovered that it gets barely over 20MPG on the highway and well under 20 in the city. I honestly don't know why that vehicle needs 255 horses ... if it came with a nice 175-200 horsepower engine that delivered better fuel economy I would have bought it.
Many people need the extra horsepower and torque for towing, and some people do not mind spending a few extra hundred dollars over the life of the car for the additional money at the pump.
I simply like to drive, and I enjoy owning cars that are fun to drive and have personality. With the Hybrid Escape, Accord, and soon the Highlander, I think we are seeing that you can have your cake and eat it too
But that said, I certainly understand those that would rather sacrifice horsepower for mpg. That is why there are choices out there. Both the Escape and Tribute come in both 4cyl and 6cyl for people like you who want to average 25-30mpg and for people like me who are content with 19-23mpg. To each his own
I also agree with others that auto industry responding to the popular demand of Americans: MORE power, MORE torque, MORE ... .
But we have our own head on the shoulders and we may decide what is more important to us: power or mileage.
BTW, there are lots of other things that Americans like to have MORE: MORE Big MAC's and Coke, MORE sex on TV, MORE cable channels ( are 500 channels is enough or we need MORE?) :-)
The time I've seen posted for the V6 Escape / Tribute twins is 8.9 seconds.
Now I know there's more to power than 0-60 times, and the CRV does have a lower payload and tow rating ... but is there honestly that much difference?
I've never formally clocked them, though I did test drive both, along with the V6 powered Chevy Equinox, and the V6 (3.5L) powered Hyundai Santa Fe, and I didn't notice much difference between any of these vehicles.
All in all, I agree with you that having more power is not a moral failing. I do think though, that its a "common sense failing". If you don't off road, or tow anything heavy, I can't see the reason for the extra power ... except I suppose that it makes you "feel good" ... and I guess if you're willing to pay a few grand for that, all the power to you.
Happy motoring.
That said, the V6 vs. the 4cyl was not the only reason I picked the Tribute over the CRV. Some of them were personal opinions (handling, styling) and some were based on value (loaded Tribute was several thousand less after incentives over loaded CRV). The biggest factor was the three arrogant Honda dealers in the area who were not willing to meet me halfway on pricing and trade-in.
I really think that Honda's engineers are doing a wonderful job with performance and fuel economy with regards to both their 4cyl and 6cyl engines. But, I still thought that the Tribute was more fun to drive than the CRV (I am sure handling was part of this, but the V6 was also a factor. I love torque!)
On a side note, I am almost positive that the Tribute is slightly faster than the Escape even though they share nearly identical parts. The Mazda engineers have tweaked the Tribute to have a quicker, more sporty feel, so I think it is somewhat wrong to compare Escape 0-60mph times to CRV 0-60 times.
You may be a bit confused about my position on 4 cylinder vs. V6. I have been driving (and enjoying) Honda 4 bangers for longer than many people on this board have been alive.
Enjoy your 'V (an excellent year BTW).