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Just to clear things up some, drive62 quoted a price of $21800 for the CRV-SE and $20800 for the CRV-EX Auto. Those prices are significantly under invoice. I'm with you scape2, I don't believe them.
Oh, no wait, maybe those prices don't include some "minor" dealer add on fees and also a requirement to finance them through their cousin Vinnie.
CONSIDERATE Salespeople & CONSIDERATE Buyers
Steve, Host
The way you carry on one would think that Honda produces the worst vehicles on the planet. And don't worry the CR-V will almost always have better resale than Escape so it will even out in the end. By the way as I've said before the Escape is more expensive in Canada if you equip then the same.
With the internet you can read about peeved off past/present Honda owners that expected perfection from both their vehicles and the dealerships and recieved just the opposite. My whole point is no vehicle is perfect. Honda's are spendy. Dealerships have a rep in my region for not negotiating and have a take it or leave it attitude. My friend is well aware of this and as a manager is trying to change this. As a matter of fact he has told me he will sell a Honda for $500 over invoice if the person is smart enough to quote it to him and stick to thier guns.....
As for reliability, I really think that some of this is luck, and keeping up with maintenance. I have friends that have 150K miles on their Honda Accords with not ever having any major issues, and I have friends that have had to have their transmissions rebuilt or replaced with less that 40K miles.. I really think that this is true for most automakers.
I bought a Volkswagen Jetta in 99 that had more problems in three years that I care to write about, but ultimately it was the treatment by the dealer that has turned me away from even considering buying a Volkswagen again. Had the dealer been responsive and appreciated my business, I would have considered buying a Volkswagen again.. I had the same feeling with the majority of Honda dealers when I went to purchase.. So, I took some adivice from some friends and test drove a Mazda Tribute from a local dealer (Browns Alexandria Mazda) and could not be happier with my purchase. The dealer has been very responsive to my questions/concerns, and it was the easiest car purchase I have ever had. I pray that I do not have any major issues with my Mazda down the road, but if I do, I am confident that Mazda and their warranty (4yr 50K miles) will cover it..
The difference is not so big, and any kind of financing make Escape cheaper
So lets see now how many small utes do we have now? The Escape/Tribute/Mariner, CRV, RAV4, Equinox, Liberty, Suzuki XL7, Forester, Tuscon, Santa-Fe, Sorento, Xterra,. And how many of these in just the last 3-4 years? This segment is growing fast!
Happy New Year!
But, yep, the mini-utes are getting crowded.
Happy New Years to everyone......
>>But for those of you who keep implying that ever Escape is going to be unreliable is a joke! The recalls are over, done, no more... <<<
I was just glancing through this forum, and found the above quote, which I found pretty funny.
Still considering an Escape/Tribute because of the V6, but I'm starting to feel drawn to the better build quality and engineering of the Japanese and Korean competitors.
There has been a ton of kudos to Hyundai for "initial" build quality, but most of these surveys are a result of dealers being very aggressive with customers filling out the survey, and "giving them the best marks". I saw a news segment which showed a Hyundai dealer filling out the forms for their customers and just having the customer sign in..
While there is no doubt that the Korean companies have made progress, I would question what the build quality will be down the road, and also resale..
a few other general comments; the crv does seem to have caught up to the escape in features, the '05 escapes have gotten significantly more pricey than the '04s, and our '04 has really noisy tires(good thing for the mach stereo). am getting the tires rotated next week. after about a year, the leather in the escape looks way better than the leather in my '02 explorer did at the same 'age'.
Visit www.msn.com and go to their vehicle section. Look at their reliability data for the Escape, you may be surprised. Also visit www.alldata.com and try to find TSB's on any Honda vehicle. You cannot, Honda does not allow this information to the public.
You really think msn.com has accurate reliablity data? Where do they get their data from? I'm sure Bill Gates doesn't know anything about vehicles.
link
Steve, Host
Why then you would have said, with such conviction back in 02, that the recalls on the Escape were "Done, over, no more" if these things "couldn't be predicted".?
Sounds like a pretty dumb thing to say. I don't hear any of the CRV owners claiming that their cars will never have another recall.
Ironically, in my local area people in Honda dealership are very friendly and not pushy (Keenan Honda), but in Toyota dealership are not
(at least some time ago). Two times I shopped around in that Toyota dealer and I was not very impressed. Once I was driving by that Toyota dealer and I saw two men picketing the dealership driveway with slogans "Bad Service". So, I wouldn't generalize.
Just spoke with the dealer. They are selling SEs for $22695 (US). According to my research that is below the invoice price. But how can that be? A "dealer" here says they don't sell for below invoice. So maybe they are lying just to get people in the showroom. But newspaper ads have a way of coming back to haunt you if you're not being honest. So who do I believe, the dealer I just spoke with? Or the "dealer" on this board?
Regardless, Hondas sell at, below or above invoice every single day. Just look here on Edmunds and see the people paying $100 over invoice for their '05 CR-V.
If people are paying the "dealer" here more than they can pay another dealer that isn't my problem.
Car sticker prices lose relevance (Detroit News)
And dealers don't always disclose incentives:
Car dealers often hide rebates (Arizona Republic)
And an effort to give incentives that don't hurt resale:
Next Big Thing in Auto Incentives: No-Charge Insurance (Yahoo)
Steve, Host
I don't follow you. What's your point? Why don't you understand that MSRP's are a bad comparison? Sheesh!!! Gimme a break!!!
'Nuff said on this....
LOL......My coffee almost came out my nose when I read that......good one explorerx4.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050104/honda_sales_1.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050104/auto_sales_3.html
Honda's 30-percent rise in sales in December helped propel the automaker to its 11th consecutive year for a sales increase. With 1.4 million U.S. vehicle sales, Honda said business rose 3 percent in 2004.
bet some management bonuses were riding on the increased sales figure!
Ummm, maybe it's because alldata has information about their ASE certified staff on their "About Us" link. Looks pretty impressive.
I don't see anything close to that on MSN's "About MSN Autos" link. Not impressed at all.
I agree, Honda should allow the TSB information, doesn't look good on Honda. But how is that a knock against alldata?
Links to what people pay doesn't work. Posting prices the dealers are selling them for doesn't work.
Read message #1414 here rdw, "Honda CR-V: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #1411, 4 Jan 2005 11:39 am
In case the link doesn't work it is in the CR-V Prices Paid topic.
And see how the dealer's "true" cost for a CR-V EX auto is $21383. Then read how people are paying $21500 for their CR-V. Do you comprehend that the dealer still makes money? Obviously not as this is at least the fiftieth time I've explained this to you.
I, for one, do not "knock" incentives because they don't work. I knock them because they reduce the resale value of the vehicle (and, therefore, hurt the customers). I knock them because the Big 2.5 have used them to an extreme, causing problems in the whole US market. If the Honda or Toyota did this, they'd be accused of dumping.
Honda shelled out an average of $973 per vehicle in December. That's about 1/3rd what Ford laid on the hood or a 4th of what GM offered. So while Honda has increased their use of incentives, they are still far lower than anyone else. Only Toyota comes close.
Compact Sport Utility - Ford Escape with 20,360 units, Honda CR-V second with 15,388 units
Intermediate Sport Utility - Ford Explorer with 14,266 units, Chrysler Grand Cherokee second with 7,454 units
Large Sport Utility - Dodge Durango with 6,394 units, Ford Expedition second with 2,992 units
Luxury Sport Utility - Chrysler Pacifica with 5,159 units, Lexus RX330 second with 4,307 units,
...
The Ford F-Series pickup was the best selling vehicle in Canada and the best selling light truck with sales of 71,790. The Chrysler Caravan/Grand Caravan was the second most popular vehicle in the market in 2004, and the second best selling light truck with sales of 63,559
The Honda Civic was once again was the best selling passenger car with 61,041 sales and the Toyota Corolla coming in second with 44,563 units. However, the Civic sales figure includes combined sedan, coupe and hatchback bodystyles while the Corolla is a sedan only...
There's also an Owners Club for the CR-V and most of the problems discussions wind up in OC's (otherwise Host Karen wouldn't have enough to do <g>).
There's no Owner Club for the Escape/Tribute (or specifically for the Sedona, Cherokee, etc.) , so discussions specific to them wind up in here, Prices Paid and the Accessories Forum.
Note that Excursion and Expedition problems are in their respective Owner's Clubs.
Steve, Host
and click on the "Subscribe" link at the bottom of the page. :-)
tidester, host
You can get off your soapbox now scape2. I can't recall the last time anyone said anything bad in regards to Escape reliability.
-V6 versus 4cyl (approx 40 hp, and less torque for towing)
-More advanced AWD system (almost evert major review I have read has applauded the new AWD system)
-Better warranty (4yrs/50K versus 3yrs/36K)
-Better placement of the shifter. The Honda shifter placement and operation really turned me off, but this is just my own opinion
-Tribute's stereo sounded better than Honda's (the model I bought has a standard subwoofer)
-Price! My I saved almost 2K by purchasing the Tribute versus the Honda.
Some of the other debates are going to be resale and reliability. I think the other major difference in my decision was the dealer experience (Mazda going out of their way to answer questions, and their treatment of me versus three different Honda dealers that I visited).
The real question is whether of not the Honda SE is worth 2K more than the Tribute S....
I really
State Farm quoted me $8 less per month on the Mazda versus the Honda.. Over 4 years that is almost $400...
Interesting note, the Subaru Outback that I almost bought was $10 less per month in insurance than the Mazda! Although the new 05 Outback is being classified as a truck.. This really surprised me