Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041210/ford_recall_1.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041228/ford_recall_1.html
"No, it's because CRV owners are too busy. If they're not putting out a fire, they're too busy making sure the dealer does the oil change right".
Steve, Host
Well, at least Ford is trying to fix the issue by issuing recalls. What is Honda doing? Blaming lube techs...
What is next? Accusing assembly line workers not knowing how to install suspension components or pointing fingers to parts suppliers...
Firstly, the 2.3l (4wd) in the Mazda/Escape bites. A little torquey perhaps, but not worth all the moaning noise produce by the motor and transfer case. It should come with a box of Tylenol for headaches. Although the mileage is not bad, this vehicle difinitely needs refinement as well as more flexible trim packages. Crv had side curtain airbags...not so with 4 cyl excape/trib.
The CRV is MILES ahead in technology, comfort, resale value, cargo space, quality of trim and plastics. If you say you need horsies over economy, maybe you should be in a v8 Cherokee, I heard they rock.
Nowadays we are being held hostage by oil companies, people should understand that power is mental control issue and driving defensively doesn't require a 250hp vehicle.
Unfortunately, the Honda dealerships are a bunch of hams when buying this vehicle new, they stick together like a Mafia, wheeling and dealing is not an option. Domestic dealers are way more flexible. I guess Honda knows people just pony up the cash and shut up...especially people who are afraid of buying a vehicle that may require some maintenance. Obviously, Hondas are not bullet proof as people think, but they are the leaders when it comes to reliability, you gotta give that (even though I don't want to).
Choice given if I had the cash?? Honda, no questions asked.
Anyway, to be fair I never even bothered to drive the 4cyl Tribute after driving both the CRV and the Rav4 and realizing that I preffered a 6cyl. Like Stu implied, one of my biggest reasons for not choosing the CRV was the Honda dealership experience (arrogant, dealers who just did not want to make the sale). The Mazda dealer was completely honest and up front and wanted my business. When I was buying a new sedan in 02, I had the exact same experience when comparing the Accord to the Nissan Altima. In the end, the Altima won out and I have had zero problems with this car over the last three years. My co-worker purchased an 03 Accord and has had his car back to the dealer about five times over the past year, and is now stressing because his warranty is almost out. The funny thing is that he loves my Altima and is seriously considering selling the Accord for a new Altima. Personally, I think Hondas are very well engineered automobiles, but are overrated. Just like Subaru owners, Honda owners are very passionate about their vehicles and do not mind paying more money because they love the brand and the image that Honda represents. But, there is a ton of competition right now, and I think you will see Honda lose some market share over the next few years...
I too ran into the arrogant Honda salesman. He basically acted like he was doing me a favor showing me my CRV, and told me that the sticker price was firm ... MAYBE he could knock $500 off, but that was about it ...
I had him write up a quote, shook his hand, told him I was still shopping and walked out.
I then e-mailed dealers all over Michigan asking for internet quotes on the same car. I eventually got an "at invoice" quote back (about $2000 less than the list price).
I then walked back into the dealership and very simply said:
"Hi, I've made up my mind, I want to buy a CRV. If you can sell it to me for this price I'll sign papers right now, if not, I'm getting in the car and driving over to this other dealership."
I had my car within an hour.
Now, I can't say that this will work for everyone, but I found it to be a simple, stress free experience. No haggling and no arguing.
Use the internet and e-mail to do your negotiations / shopping.
Now, to be fair, some dealerships won't want to do deals over the net ... I did get calls and e-mails back that said "it would be best if you came in so we could talk about this". I simply responded:
"I'm sorry, I'm organizing my car search in e-mail ... it's most convenient for me because then I have a written record of all my offers. If you aren't able to work with me this way then I guess you don't want my business. Thank you."
"GM lost $1.24, to $35.65, a 52-week closing low. Ford dropped 35 cents, to $12.65, also a 52-week closing low. An analyst at Banc of America Securities cut his rating on the automakers to "sell" from "neutral."
"We believe we have been wrong not to be more negative on the domestic automaker stocks, and their suppliers, because we have underestimated the repercussions of their market share loss," wrote analyst Ron Tadross in a client note.
Honda stock BTW is at a 52 week HIGH.
You still need to do your research though as with your method, you'll get lots of low ball offers just to get you in.
Steve, Host
Dummy portfolio, appropriate name.
Then again, if they pop up 20% or more?
Steve, Host
You know that for a fact? Read the buying experience topics right here to find all the people who are paying invoice or less for their Hondas. Perhaps you think invoice is still "more money" but I don't. I have shown dozens of times that a CR-V will cost less than a comparably equipped Escape. People are paying invoice, close to, or below for their CR-Vs so I don't understand your statement.
In my opinion it is the Ford buyer who is paying too much for the Escape (based on what you get).
Investing in quality companies usually pays off in the long term.
Besides, this is an auto forum - no one buys and holds when there are new models hitting the showroom every fall.
Anyone have sales numbers for Feb.?
Steve, Host
Take a look at the original post, they were referring to investing in GM and Ford.
I've seen very few vehicles that handle like the CR-V, especially parking and turning radius.
That's because they are being good members and staying on topic! If you're truly interested in those topics try Honda CR-V Owners: Problems & Solutions or Honda CR-V engine fires. :-)
tidester, host
Seeing they were talking about GM and Ford, ignore my comment about quality companies.
BTW, HMC at another 52 week high today. F? Another 52 week low.
If Honda makes such fantastic 4cyl engines.. then why did they put a V6 in the Accord??
Honda folks brag and brag about how reliable thier vehicles are and how all Fords are just going to fall apart the minute you leave the parking lot. Get out on the net and visit other chat rooms. There are Escapes/Tribute owners now reaching 100,000 trouble free miles. The word is spreading. These are NOT unreliable low quality vehicles. The 80's are over, Honda no longer has the market of reliability or quality wrapped up.
Well that's quite the generalization... Actually quite the opposite my friend. I like Honda's and I like Ford's. I think Ford truck are the best in the business (Only mid-pack engine wise though). Owned a couple myself. Not bad cars (miles ahead of a Garbage Motors offering) but sticklers for maintainance. They were only as good as the service dept. and in my case I have a Linclon/Merc dealer nearby that is by far the best dealership I've ever had of any make, even Honda. Thing is, I don't visit the Honda/Acura dealers for anything other than 15k maintainance. My Ford's, a different story. Couple of O2 sensors and bad wheel bearings on one and an Explorer with 28k miles that needed a steering rack and 2 new hubs because thay would not engage fully causing hard bangs while taking left turns.
"There are Escapes/Tribute owners now reaching 100,000 trouble free miles. The word is spreading."
I don't doubt there are are. But that's hardly a pinnacle of success.
But their cars are another story, mostly due to fleet sales to Hertz. Their value drops like a boat anchor.
However, that fact is a huge plus for someone who keeps a vehicle a long time and can fix things. A 1-2 year old low mileage Taurus is a phenominal value for someone like that.
Like I said I hope you keep the vehicle a long time. And somehow I think you could have found a CR-V for a good price in Virginia. But it doesn't really matter.
Well, I prefer my own likes/dislikes to the reviews. The CR-V is the best handling vehicle I've ever driven for in-town maneuverability.
A lot of people would prefer a top loading rear door, but I prefer that large under cargo floor well that comes with the spare tire on the rear door.
I think Focus is doing very well here too. Honda made big mistake by removing regular Civic hatcback from production (Si is too expensice for a hatcback car). The market is taken by Ford and Dodge (Neon). Majority of young people -college kids, new graduates, high school kids, and professionals are driving Focus Hatcback in my area.
Well... since we appear to be off topic, I think that Honda has a problem with costs here. While they build a very good car in the Civic, the lower cost of the Focus appeals more to the budget minded college folk...
Still don't see what the heck this all has to do with the Escape or CR-V...
Again this is my way of doing things: I don't care about an "arrogant" dealer (or appliance shop owner or travel agent--whatever). I buy what suits my needs. Unless you live in a one horse town I think there are usually multiple dealers to choose from. The generalization about Honda dealers being "arrogant" is just that, a generalization. There are plenty of good Honda dealers and also plenty of bad ones. Just like there are for Ford, Mazda, Chevrolet etc. The exact way dc_driver bought his Mazda I have bought Hondas.
To not buy a quality product that I have thoroughly researched and will best meet my needs because of an "arrogant" salesperson isn't what I would do. YMMV.
"Things are changing for Ford and GM. There will always be those who never can imagine a Ford actually being "Better" than a Honda."
The only thing changing at Ford is that the Escape is proving to be better than your typical Ford product.
In announcing the next generation Civic Honda specifically mentioned how hatchback sales are nowhere in North America (at least for these small vehicles) so they made the decision to discontinue that body style---the Si will again be a coupe.
I'm thinking some pretty good Market Research went in to that decision. So let Ford and DMC have the small hatchback market. We all see how well it adds to their bottom line.
I don't pose as Marketing Professor, I am an observer...Perhaps you should help Ford to gain some market share since you know more than Ford execs on marketing.
"how hatchback sales are nowhere in North America..."
Probably you can be more clear on this. Whose hatcback sales are we talking? Honda or from all car manufacturers?
"So let Ford and DMC have the small hatchback market. We all see how well it adds to their bottom line."
Why you guys are so mean to Ford and other domestic manufacturers? Everything they do is bad dudu, everything Honda does is excellent...
My wife had an 02 MB Kompressor coupe and while handy, never got the recognition and MB dropped it. Same with the old 318 Bimmer. Hatchbacks just aren't in demand.
I found it as relevant as discussing financial markets here...or there is an irony here that I don't see...
Heck, on this thread, there always seems to be irony here; no one seems to understand the other people's posts (including me)...
Sometimes it seems like there are really strange conversations, sort of like asking "what time is it?" and getting back an answer "well, it sure is hot in Bombay!"
Be afraid, be very, very afraid...
I had 99 Accord LX with 150 HP. Even though it was 5spd, the car seemed very thirsty for passing power on highway.
Before I bought my Trib/Escape, I had test drive 04 CRV in city traffic and on semi highway. It felt like lacking acceleration/passing power on semi highway. It was adequate on traffic light take offs.
I suppose it's definite progress if one is at least understanding one's own posts! ;-)
tidester, host
I think that's just Toyota following the trend in "more power is always better". And I'd expect Honda to eventually do the same.
" if the 4cyl is so powerful and great in the Accord why does Honda offer a V6???... "
Ummm, maybe because the competition does?
Blah blah blah, I'll be holding my breath when things change.
I don't think that's the general feeling here from the Honda side. I still see a fair amount of criticism of Honda from them. And I know most feel that Ford trucks and SUVs are fine vehicles.