Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Because Honda paid for the repairs without requiring the government involment and issuing a recall. They quietly admitted they were wrong in suggesting 90,000 mile valve lash adjustment sucked it up and paid for it. No recall was needed because they were fixing cars that were outside of warranty.
Sure there are people who are not happy with Honda's. You can't please everyone. No one is saying that Honda is perfect, it is just above the rest.
Honda is more technologically advanced than the rest. Honda is not affraid to create a new niche and occupy it (Sport compact, Compact SUV, excellent fuel efficency with perfomance). And if there is an existing product, they just perfect it (Dodge created the minivan, Honda perfected it). Honda makes engines that are just a marvel of engine technology, Ford.... It took at least 10 years for BMW to get the VTEC right (VANOS), and more 15 years for Ford (Mazda) to get it to work.
Mazda did create the compact sport convertible though (Mazda Miata), but I would bet it was done in secret from Ford. Because Ford's motto is: "Innovation is not our game"
As far as I know Ford has always been the second to everything. Jeep (AMC) Created the SUV, Ford followed with Bronco. GM created Corvette, Ford followed with Mustang. Dodge created mini-van, Ford followed. Ferarri dominated LeMans, Ford created GT40. Japanese created fuel efficient compacts, Ford followed with Escort.
What has Ford done that has been innovative aside from Model T?
Bacci
Hold it there. The Mustang was not an answer to the Vette. The Mustang was a first of it's kind and started the whole segment known as pony cars. The Thunderbird competed with the Vette when they came out in the fifties.
What has Ford done that has been innovative aside from Model T?
IRS on it's truck based SUVs for starters. A 24 valve V8 which offers all the benefits of a 32 valve but at a lower cost and with more efficiency.
As far as I know Ford has always been the second to everything.
Yeah, and Honda's been 4th or 5th. :P
They do not have "all the benefits" of a 32 valve; they have better efficiency than a 16 valve but worse than a 32-valve...At a cost that splits the two. Its just a compromise of sorts. Too bad the horses in the F-150 aren't as big and powerful as those in the Titan...The F-150 is MUCH slower in the straight line despite advertising relatively equal horsepower (within 5 hp).
As far as I know Ford has always been the second to everything.
Yeah, and Honda's been 4th or 5th.
Wow, it only took 10 years to implement a magic 3rd row seat in its minivan lineup - just in time for Ford to have killed its minivan market.
One more thing that I can't resist bringing up...and it's not a slam, instead, a question.
When is the dang 3.5L Duratec coming out? I've read about this thing and its 250 hp for three years now! It still hasn't been relesased, and 3.5L with 250 hp is old news...About 8 years old, back to the Chrysler 3.5L.
Ford lately is a couple of beats behind the market...
-Ford Five Hundred with 203 hp competing with an Avalon with 268 hp and a Buick with 245hp.
-Ford Freestar with 201 hp? Even Kia has over 240 hp now!
-Ford Focus - its what, 7 years old now, with no hope in the pipeline of an all-new one this year. Europe has a brand new one, why can't we?
-Ford Ranger...I just won't go there. It's older than dirt, and drives like it.
I know Ford has some good new products out there, but we really shouldn't have to come up with excuses for this company, should we?
Towing is the strong point of the F-150 and the three valve design allows it to excel at that without increasing the displacement. Anyway, if you're buying a pickup to drag race then the Nissan is not the best choice by far.
Ford is on a big torque kick for some reason and I'm not sure it's the right way to go as average Joe's and Jane's don't really understand the difference between horses and torque. This applies to your Freestar question too. The larger of the two motors in the Freestar produces something like 240 ft-lbs. However, the Freestar is said to be dead in the water anyway. Something like last year's Fairlane concept is rumored to replace it in the future.
When is the dang 3.5L Duratec coming out? I've read about this thing and its 250 hp for three years now! It still hasn't been relesased, and 3.5L with 250 hp is old news...About 8 years old, back to the Chrysler 3.5L.
Later this year you'll see it in the Five Hundred, Edge, Freestyle (I think), Lincoln MKZ, and Lincoln MKX. 250 HP is the minimum it produces without a blower, which by the way it is capable of accepting too. IIRC it's max NA output is a little over 300 HP. It is also "hybrid ready" and I believe that is why it was delayed so much but don't quote me on that. If the Escape stays around long enough I'd imagine it would get the 3.5 too but who knows. It is the same size as the 3.0 so it'll definitely fit.
Ford Focus - its what, 7 years old now, with no hope in the pipeline of an all-new one this year. Europe has a brand new one, why can't we?
Cost. The last thing I read about this, I believe in MT a year or so ago, stated the very high botched launch costs being the main reason we're not getting the Euro version. In the mean time you can buy a Mazda3 or Volvo S40 both of which are Euro Focus derivatives and were designed by the same people at the same time.
Ford Ranger...I just won't go there. It's older than dirt, and drives like it.
Sure it is but the competition isn't any better. If it ain't broke...
I know Ford has some good new products out there, but we really shouldn't have to come up with excuses for this company, should we?
No we shouldn't but we do have to be patient. GM is rushing some product out which doesn't seem like a good thing to me and none of it looks fresh IMO. At least Ford's new products, which we are still waiting for as mentioned above, look like some thought was put into them. The Fusion is doing better than expected and I read somewhere that a decent percentage, 30 or 40 IIRC, of sales are conquest sales. I don't think that was expected.
Yup, and every one of them is on the Internet, complaining. Meanwhile the contented owners don't bother posting on the Internet.
How may posts are made complaining about Fords?
Towing is the strong point of the F-150 and the three valve design allows it to excel at that without increasing the displacement. Anyway, if you're buying a pickup to drag race then the Nissan is not the best choice by far.
Ford Ranger...I just won't go there. It's older than dirt, and drives like it.
Sure it is but the competition isn't any better. If it ain't broke...
I disagree; the competition (Frontier, Tacoma, Dakota, Canyon, Ridgeline) are all better in nearly every way.
I'm off my soapbox
I agree, but my point was that their numbers (actually, both hp and torque are similar in those vehicles (Titan, F150).
1. Mustang
2. Mustang SVO
3. Cobra anyone?
4. Best selling truck on the market? Ever heard of the F series?
5. Who created the SUV craze?? Explorer anyone?
6. Ever heard of a Fairlane? Torino? Couger? only some of the most sought after muscle cars bud...
7. Ever heard of the Ford GT? look it up.. beat a well known Euro racing company..
This is just a small taste of history of Ford Motor Company. How many 1965 Honda Accords are out there??
You really think Ford is sitting completly idle doing nothing?? Goes to show me just how much you really don't know..Get out and RESEARCH...
I know that wasn't really directed at me, but those kind of comments are what spins these forums in the wrong directions (i.e. personal attacks). If we could lighten it up a bit in here, please?
Back to the Escape and CR-V.
A little more civility and respect will keep this discussion open.
tidester, host
2. Mustang SVO
3. Cobra anyone?
4. Best selling truck on the market? Ever heard of the F series?
5. Who created the SUV craze?? Explorer anyone?
6. Ever heard of a Fairlane? Torino? Couger? only some of the most sought after muscle cars bud...
7. Ever heard of the Ford GT? look it up.. beat a well known Euro racing company..
This is just a small taste of history of Ford Motor Company. How many 1965 Honda Accords are out there??
You really think Ford is sitting completly idle doing nothing?? Goes to show me just how much you really don't know..Get out and RESEARCH
1 and 2: Mustangs can only drive in a straight line. What is so special about that? Anyone can put a high horsepower engine in the lightweight car, that does not make it exciting sport driving.
Maybe you don't know what sport driving is all about. Instead of lurking on the internet forums all day, and trying to find that one elusive unhappy Honda customer, get your self a used Integra and sign up with a local autocross club. See how many Mustangs are competing in autocross. NONE. Integra's, Civic's and BMW 3-Series dominate autocross.
3. Cobra is just another Mustang with a different skin on it. At least Honda can do what Cobra does with a 2.0 liter engine instead of a 5 liter V8. Do more with less.
4. Best selling does not mean it is the best. Best selling operating system is Microsoft's Windows, is it the best?
5. Before the Explorer there was Jeep Cherokee, years before Explorer. Even before Chrysler bought Jeep from AMC. That was way before Ford even had a Explorer, or Bronco.
6. Failane, Torino, Cougar -- land yachts.
7. Ever heard of Honda (Acura) NSX? Once again, Do more with less.
Just so that you know, there were no Honda Accord (introduced in 1978??) in 1965, but there are plenty of mid-60's and early 70's Honda S600, and they are just as coveted if not more than 60's Mustang. Maybe you should RESEARCH, or better off go outside and observe.
My opinion on this stems from what lies in the rest of the driveline. I don't think Ford "frees up" enough of the driveline to allow more power to get to the ground. I've said this about the Escape too. I always felt something was holding power back in the Escape. Something like the transmission. Better gearing does wonders I hear.
Scape, you hearing this?
Oh, but this is the most interesting forum around, largely because of the cutting edge comments.
Of course, cutting edges sometimes bleed...
One would think almost everything has been said.
Now when October comes around and a new model debuts then there MAY be something useful here. Just my $0.02.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13831219.htm
Apparently, the deals to be had on the Ford Escape are not as rosy as Scape would have us believe.
just kidding of course, but i never park next to one, just in case. :shades:
Pinky3 - The Escape is a great vehicle, built well. I have an 01 with over 65,000 trouble free miles. Still drives great, runs great. The only squeak I have is a small one in the right front windshield area. Only happens when it gets really warm out.
If you plan on getting the Escape. My recommendations are make sure all fluids have been changed/or flushed. Check the front brakes. Escapes are known for going through front brakes about every 30-40K or so.. Get out on the net you will find in other chat rooms Escape owners with now over 130,000 miles...
That's hysterical, I'll give ya that! A guy in a 240 hp front drive trying to outgun a 300 hp car MADE for straightline acceleration! Wow, some people never cease to amaze me.
LOL, I bought a '98 V6 Mustang a few years ago for my son to drive and I think even that thing would have given the Accord a good run. Even though it was only a V6, it had some nice low end torque. It sure was fun to drive compared to my '99 CRV.
Pinky3 - The Escape is a great vehicle, built well. I have an 01 with over 65,000 trouble free miles. Still drives great, runs great. The only squeak I have is a small one in the right front windshield area. Only happens when it gets really warm out.
If you plan on getting the Escape. My recommendations are make sure all fluids have been changed/or flushed. Check the front brakes. Escapes are known for going through front brakes about every 30-40K or so.. Get out on the net you will find in other chat rooms Escape owners with now over 130,000 miles...
The guy in Accord is not a bright one. You don't race out of your league. Has nothing to do with the "Bright H syndrome." An Accord will hand Taurus and Fusion its butt anytime of the day (I4 vs I4 and V6 vs. V6). Just like an I4 CR-V will hand any Escape its butt anytime of the day. :-)
I wonder how much of a resale value those Escapes with 130,000 miles have? And how much life is left in them? :-) CR-V's and Hondas in general have proven to run past 300,000 on the original engine with no rebuilds. I don't think Ford has yet to prove that.
As I have said, I am planning on buying a car in the next 3 months or so.. So, this room will die..
http://www.dpccars.com/car-movies/03-13-06pageTypeRhistory.htm
Have fun, and don't drool.
If Escape is so great and trouble free, why woudl one sell it so soon? Why not hold on to it like Honda owner's do, for 10-15 years. Maybe it is not all that trouble free and great afterall?
I still have my 88 Prelude, 18 years and still running strong, not rebuilt, everything is original, except for wear and tear parts.
Fuel Efficiency: Honda has THREE hybrid models on the market, all of which get better mileage than ANY Ford model. I can't find an excuse for a company like Ford which can't make a car which gets 31-32 mpg overall, when little Honda has two cars which get 50 mpg overall and higher.
Granted, I applaud Ford for making the Escape. At least they are getting into that market, but then again, the choose to go hybrid with an SUV. The company's CEO admitted this last year they have been spending too much on pickups and large SUVs. Ford is all about turning a profit, which shows how short-sighted they are, since Honda can afford to put out innovative models which have been eating Ford's lunch once those innovations have been spread across the entire brands line. That's why every single model Honda produces is superior to its Ford counterpart.
Engine technology: The Honda S2000 makes 109 HP per liter. (It actually used to make a 120 hp, but Honda boosted displacement by .2 liters for everyday driveability.) You can buy one for around $30,000. What's Ford's performance bearer? The Mustang. Almost 40 years after the muscle car died, Ford trudges on with the a muscle car which gets less than 80 hp per liter for one reason, profits.
So what is Ford's Nascar model? The Taurus. Let me say that again. The Taurus. And what does Nascar technology do for you and I? Nothing. Honda, on the otherhand, is constantly learning from their F1 history to put it in each and every model they introduce. The S2000 is a direct link between Honda racing and its passenger cars, and every Honda has a little bit of S2000 in it. Furthermore, Honda does everything without help of forced induction. Anytime Ford wants to get extra horsepower out of something, it sticks a supercharger on its engine. Talk about innovation...
:confuse:
Safety: Every Honda passenger car comes standard with standard front, side and curtain airbags. Can Ford say the same? Who cares more about my family, then? Who cares more about PROFITABILITY???
It's amazing, then, when you consider all of the money Honda spends, they are STILL more profitable than Ford. Very amazing indeed!
Perhaps Escape owners are generally more secure in their purchasing decision than CR-V owners?
tidester, host
:P
:confuse:
All of those were a delayed answer from Ford to OTHER companies creating a market niche.
Ford will very soon too. Escape, Fusion, and Edge. All are full hybrids unlike Honda's partial hybrids. Let's not give the Insight too much credit either because no one buys them.
The Honda S2000 makes 109 HP per liter.
Is that supposed to impress us? Test numbers were all over the charts when the S2000 first came out because it is next to impossible to launch and get max performance. These are professional drivers I'm talking about! At least the average Joe fits in a Mustang and can drive it out of the box. And it doesn't sound like a blender when revved. To each his own.
So what is Ford's Nascar model? The Taurus. Let me say that again. The Taurus. And what does Nascar technology do for you and I? Nothing.
It's the Fusion now. Nothing huh? Then why does Toyota want in so badly?
It's amazing, then, when you consider all of the money Honda spends, they are STILL more profitable than Ford. Very amazing indeed!
It's truly amazing to me that you still think the company who makes the larger profit cares less about profitability and more about your family. :confuse:
You're not getting those safety features for free or at cost either. Honda IS profiting from them. Believe it or not there are a lot of people out there who don't want to pay for safety and find that a $23k Accord is too much money.
I'd like to see most of it standard on every vehicle too but that's not reality.
Please tell me what the Mustang was an answer to then? Hint: It WAS NOT the Vette.
Anyone shopping and comparing the CR-V to the Escape?
Steve, Host
Honda owners do not hold on to their vehicles for 10-15 years. Go to any Honda dealer and look at their used inventory right after a new model is introduced and tell me which used model they have a lot of.
I know at least F-150s and Rangers can do it.
You should meet my family.
15 years for a Civic Wagon(granddad with 260,000 miles), 10.5 years and counting for an Accord LX(me, 160,000 miles), 9 years cnd counting(it's close!) for a Civic LX(grandmother, 103,000 miles). Do I count as a Honda owner? Do they?
Yup, that GT will beat the Accord to everything, especially the gas station...
I thought you sold your Escape?
That is part of my point. Honda offers a car, which everyone knows they are losing on, to make a statement. That's pretty bold (and innovative).
The Honda S2000 makes 109 HP per liter.
Is that supposed to impress us?
Yes.
So what is Ford's Nascar model? The Taurus. Let me say that again. The Taurus. And what does Nascar technology do for you and I? Nothing.
It's the Fusion now. Nothing huh? Then why does Toyota want in so badly?
Marketing. Honda and Toyota, while Japanese, are VERY different in their approaches. For instance, Toyota makes full size cars, trucks and SUVs, as well as V8s. Honda does none of those. Nascar has absolutely nothing to do with your car or mine. F1, on the other hand, at least when it comes to Honda, does. At least with my car.
It's truly amazing to me that you still think the company who makes the larger profit cares less about profitability and more about your family.
My point was Honda sees the big picture. They see that by stressing safety, economy, reliability and value, they will win in the long run. Ford has offered vehicle after vehicle which they end up getting rid of. That shows they bail out while failing to see the BIG picture.
You're not getting those safety features for free or at cost either. Honda IS profiting from them.
It would be a lot more profitable not too offer those features, or everyone would offer them. That's another impressive thing about Honda. They can offer incredible safety features while still being competitive.
I'd like to see most of it standard on every vehicle too but that's not reality.
when the cr-v can compete with the escape in sales, maybe there will more of a reason to post. it looks like it's liberty vs. escape now. :surprise: