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This room has really died off.. I am still wanting to know why Honda puts a v6 in the Accord when the 2.3 is "good enough"? When the weights of the Accord and CRV are within about 100lbs of each other?
"Something Ford is known for" - you mean building lousy cars. Say, whatever happened to the commercial about "Quality is Job One"?
I have 1999 Honda Accord (4 cyl) and i'm pleased with it's power (150 hp). I don't understand those people who always ask for more. In 1980's, how much hp did V6 and V8 have? I'm pretty sure it's way below 200 mark and people were very pleased with it. Is it because we always wanted the latest one or follow the trend? Sigh...people ohh people. Enjoy what you have and what you can afford.
Have fun guys....:o)))
The XLT would compare the best to the EX but even then you still have a wide variety of options/configurations to choose from. Interior/exterior dimensions are the same for all Escape models. Tire sizes and headroom with/without moonroof will vary though.
If you are going to research these two for differences, don't waste your time. Just read back through the posts in this board and you'll find most of what you are looking for. There are very few major differences between these two vehicles.
You keep forgetting to add "for me" to the end of your "CR-V is the best" sentences. If I thought it was the best, or if I were conditioned to say "how high" when you said "jump", I would have bought one myself. Having real experience with products from both companies really opens your eyes.
I think that is because lots of Americans think they need more power. Many remember the earlier basic 4-cylinder Japanese cars, with less than 100hp. So when they see the V-6 is offered, they go for it, not realizing that many 4s today are a lot more sophisticated and powerful.
There were 2 instances lately where I suggested that the shoppers test-drive the 4-cylinder first, to see if it was adequate power for them (they don't need to tow). After driving the 4s, they never even bothered test-driving the V-6s. The 4 felt fine.
In both cases, they bought the 4-cylinders (one Solara, one Accord) and saved thousands of dollars.
Look at the sales numbers Honda is getting WITHOUT a V6 in the CRV. The accord wasn't released with a 4 cylinder either, it came later in the Accord line when they had to compete with Toyota putting a 6 cylinder in the Camry. Did either vehicle need a 6? No way. But does the power-hungry American public want it? Heck yeah! Honda doesn't need a 6 cylinder to compete with the Escape right now. If Honda feels the gap is getting too big between the two then they will look at a 6 cylinder.
When the market demands a 6 cylinder in the CRV, there will be a 6 cylinder in the CRV. And that, my friend, should have Ford shaking in it's boots because should that ever happen, the Escape can only count on people afraid of foreign cars as it's market base.
I don't need the power of a V6 for what I do. If it were available I probably would have bought it. Not because I needed it but because of the stigma a 4 cylinder has come resale time.
Could you imagine, the 200hp V6 in a CRV!!!??? 7sec...scape..what would you talk about than??? Too much power??? I don't think it is necessary but I guess some do like lots of power they may never use. The only way I could see a V6 go into the CRV is if the RAV4 comes up with it first which I think will happen in the next model. They are not selling near as well and Toyota may want to take advantage of this. Who knows. It is a power struggle.
Have fun!!!
A v6 in the Escape is a more of an advantage than CRV owners are willing to admit. My whole point is the Accords weight is right along the lines of a CRV. Fact is Honda put a V6 in the Accord for MORE POWER.. what the majority of Americans want. More power to pass, merge, haul a load with confidence up steep grades ect...
And for the last time....stop saying you have to rev the whatever out of the V to get those times. You have to rev the crud out of the Escape too and at BEST you get even times.
As far as the 4 cylinder goes, my point was regarding the current Escape 4 cylinder. I bet that 2.3 gets tweaked before its dropped into the Escape to at least equal the HP ratings of the 2.4 in the V. No way is Ford going to drop in a motor and say "Look! Here's our new larger motor that still isn't as powerful or quick as our competitors." And I predict the year after that Honda squeezes another 20 HP out of the current 2.4 with some programming modifications.
Maybe we don't underestimate the "advantage" of the V6. Maybe the answer is that Scape2 underestimates the advantages of fuel efficiency and low emissions.
And Freeber is correct. You do have to "absolutely rev the he.." out of the Escape as well. And more to the point; the CR-V revs smoothly. The Escape gets rough and rowdy in the high rpms.
Resale for the CRV in my area is not that great folks. You act like your CRV's will be worth what you bought it or within a few hundred dollars. My wifes Accord is a 2000 LX automatic. These are a dime a dozen for 13K-14K in my area.. I am looking through the paper and there are tons of Accords and Civics in newer years for as low as 11K for a 2001 Civic EX.. Resale is dependant on region. Honda's are all over my area and all over California. And another thing, Hondas are more expensive than Fords to begin with, HOnda dealers don't deal. You pay more at purchase, I sure hope you get more at sale.. In my area Escape XLT v6's are now sell for under 19K.. Try to get a CRV for 19K.. they will laugh you right off the lot.. You will pay at least 21K.
Sales numbers, you folks have forgotten the Escape wipped up on the CRV its first year in sales. When all the hype over the 2000 CRV dies down, along with all the previous owners dumping their old CRV's comes to an end, then we'll see who sells more. Besides, didn't someone say, just becasue Mcdonalds sells more burgers doesn't mean they are the best??
With an automatic you start from idle every time. Unless you want to drastically shorten the life of your tranny.
Obviously you are going to take them as close to redline as possible when trying to measure a 0-6- time.
varmint,
Escape incentives are still only at $500, and the dealers around here are still not moving very far from that. I've read many posts in the CR-V forum where people are getting more than $500 off of the sticker price from their dealer. So I'd venture to say that both of them are in the midst of a minor sales slump. I'll bet you'll be able to get a screaming deal on a CR-V as soon as the Pilot's start showing themselves on the roads some more.
scape2 has posted and re-posted and re-re-posted and re-re-re-posted and re-re-re-re-posted about the powerful escape. Personally, I could care less - I'm not drag racing a suv.
I'll still say that in 4-5 years, a CR-V will get more for trade/sell than an Escape. Guess will have to come back then to see who is right.
Till then - rev it up dude!!
Load your CRV down with 4 adults and about 400lbs of gear and head up a 7% grade.. and tell me the 2.4 does just fine.. I already did this and nope, the 2.4 hunted and shifted and had a heck of a time maintaining even 50MPH..
I recently bought a new Ford Escape and I purchased it fully aware of potential problems. Why? Because it looks great, is an excellent value and drives & handles easily like a car. The Honda was never a consideration because a major criteria for me involved overall looks and styling. It may be boring to you Honda owners.. But, it has a more traditional look for my taste. I look at the CRV and it looks more like a van, with smaller tires and a long skinny body. "Not my cup of tea.."
I'm by no means an auto expert like you people sound... But, from the way some of you pro-Honda people talk... One would think you'd found and bought the perfect SUV... Hearing you all gloat of having the better rated vehicle is BORING!!
Sometimes, all I see are you Honda owners talking amongst yourselves... raving to each other about your CRV's.. It's hilarious! I'm glad you're all happy to have made the "perfect buy..." but, puleasee... enough. People buy vehicles not just because they're highly rated by some mgazines or websites... Individual choices and factors come into the decision making process.
Scape2, I admire your tenacity in defending the Escape. But, it's like you keeping pounding your head against the wall, trying to convince all these happy Honda owners they bought an inferior product.. You'll never change their mind as they'll never change yours... An excercise in futility.
You Honda owners, Okay, the Honda CRV is a better SUV. Blah, blah, blah... Make you all feel better?
Sorry, just had to sound off after reading so much junk...
Feel free to extol the virtues of the Escape! That might invite more Escapers (sorry, couldn't resist!) to join the discussion and even up the numbers! :-)
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
About the 0-60 stuff...guys, these are TRUCKS and MINIVANS. Why are you drag-racing them? And no, you really can't rev the h**l out of the Escape...auto trannys don't allow for that option. Also keep in mind that an auto tranny is usually MUCH heavier than a manual tranny, so when testing the CR-V with a manual vs the Escape with an automatic, not only does the CR-V gain shifting and rev flexibility, but it gets a bit lighter, which also helps it's acceleration.
Good luck drag-racing your minivans, all! Hahaha!
Using your logic, the tow ratings of 3,500 for the Escape and 1,500 for the CR-V wouldn't matter since that's more than enough for a good majority of buyers who don't even need to tow.
I am in this for entertainment purposes only. I just get a kick how Honda owners justify the 2.4 in the CRV when most other makers have V6's with optional 4cyl available. Along with the Accord which weighs about the same as the CRV is available with a V6. Now we have the Honda Pilot which is supposed to, in its first year, with no history be the best SUV on the planet.. even though it only tows 4,500lbs!! LOL.. A Ford Explorer V8, or a Evoy/Trailblazer, Durango 4.7 will trounce this newcomer.. I know another room, another topic.
I guess what really gets me is Honda owners hate to see someone who owns a Ford and has a history of good reliability/quality from Ford products.. this just can't happen.
However, this has nothing to with the ability to rev the vehicle. If you are trying to tell me that the Escape's automatic transmission is incapable of reaching it's redline, then woo-boy do we have another discussion to play with. That would be a riot. An engine that can produce 200 hp, with a transmission that doesn't allow it to use those horses! I'm told that this is true of the 240 hp Pathfinder, so it is possible.
Baggs - That's why I wrote "close to MSRP", not at MSRP. My point still stands. The price is still high enough to show that there is still a considerable demand for CR-Vs. Meanwhile, Ford is offering incentives to help sell the Escape. Would they be doing that if the vehicle was in high demand? Nope.
Why am I concerned with demand? I was responding to Scape2's notion that the American public wants a V6. The sales numbers and measure of demand indicate that is simply not true. If a V6 were necessary, then four cylinder cars wouldn't be selling. The fact that they are selling (quite well), tells us that Scape's notion is incorrect.
Scape2 - In it's first year of sales, the Escape was competing with a five year old design. Now it has to contend with a CR-V that is closer to the same age.
Like someone else said, if you're looking for 0-60 times, go look at a Corvette.
OTOH, very few actually tow anything. If they do, they typically purchase a mid-size vehicle, not a mini.
We have been around and around with this 0-60 times stuff.. I have even done my own testing since I am able to gain access to 2002 CRV's. Believe me you have to redline the 2.4 between gears in order to atain these numbers that are being reported. And the automatic doesn't even come close to the Escape in acceleration. Anyone who tests drives these back to back will see this right away.
How come I cannot find braking distances for the 2002 CRV?
Absolutely not! I was just trying to come up with a word to identify Escape owners and Escaper sounded better than Escapee!
goldencouple: But maybe a new topic: "Bad Fords and the People Who Love Them"...what do you think?
LoL! It sounds like the automotive version of co-dependency and a prescription for a 12-step program.
Do you remember Al Franken on Saturday Night Live playing the neurotic perpetually enrolled in a 12-step program? I can imagine people talking to their Escapes and saying "You're good enough! You're smart enough! And, doggone it, people like you!"
(Disclaimer: This is strictly for entertainment and does not reflect my views, real or imagined!)
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
Finally, Ford is hammering the CRV and RAV4 on TV. The ad gives specs and comparisons and shows the advantages of the Escape over the cRV/RAV4. The Escape has better braking distances also! To be specific the Escape stops almost 4feet shorter than the CRV. I wonder why Edmunds doesn't post the CRV braking distances, yet they post the Escapes...The ad also claims the Escape as the best selling SUV in this class...
Look at the statistics, not the vehicle in your driveway. The Escape was ranked 40% below the industry average in the last long term reliability survey. In the recent JD Powers initial quality test, the CR-V landed in second place behind the RAV4. The Escape didn't make the top rankings; it finished somewhere below the Santa Fe.
You can't read enthusiasts websites and expect to get a realistic sample. If I log onto "ilovemyescape.com" and read the posts, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get an unbiased review.
If Ford is "hammering" the competition in their ads, then they must be pretty hurtin'. That's a ploy which makes the vehicle being advertised look like a wannabe. Kia is well known for such ads.
Finally, if Ford is boasting about being the best selling vehicle in its class, they must have a funny idea of what the class is. Or their information is out of date. Both the CR-V and Liberty have sold more units in recent months.
Once again, I was speaking about the public, not you personally. Are you trying to tell me that you alone make up the majority of owners?
As for your question about Edmunds not publishing the CR-V's stopping distance, I may have an answer for that. When they tested the CR-V, it was raining on and off. A factor which skews the data. However, if you go to the road test section and look up both the CR-V and the Escape, you'll find the numbers. The Escape stopped from 60 mph in 126ft (pretty good). The CR-V did the test in 128-129ft. The article lists 128, but the performance page lists 129. Given that this could have been recorded in wet conditions, that ain't bad.
"The Escape was ranked 40% below the industry average in the last long term reliability survey."
I'm not disputing your claim, I would like to see this 'long term reliability survey' that had the Escape listed.. Should make for some interesting reading..
muckyduck:
I can mention reliablity and say that all the Escapes my family owns (2, brother/myself) have had no problems. I have several co-workers that also own Escapes, and they've had NO problems..
I'm not sure how a CRV could be more than 100% reliable.
I know, you'll say, just because your Escapes are reliable, doesn't mean everyones will be, yada yada.. and 'go look at the statistics' yada yada..
I have no doubt that a properly maintained Ford will last well over 175k miles and still be reliable. My family (father, brothers, my wife and I) have had literally dozens of Fords that have reached well over 175k miles.
I'm sure a CRV would do the same, as I've had a few friends that have had great experiences with their Civic's and Accords.
It seems is mainly the fanatic Honda owners on this board who think Fords won't last as long as a Honda. This is your opinion that really doesn't have much in the way of facts to back it up. But your entitled to your opinion, no matter how you form it.
The biggest factor in how long a vehicle lasts is the owner. This is true of any vehicle..
Braking distances don't match what I see.. Escape is at 129, CRV is at 133ft. These numbers are from another very well known website. Cannot link you because they also have chat rooms and vehicle reviews/data much like Edmunds. How do you know it was raining when they tested? where does it say this? why don't they list the numbers? Fact is the Escape brakes better than the CRV.
Isn't this 2001 information from JD powers? Long term test, how long term?
This commercial in no way bashes Honda, its pure data and facts/comparison. Very well done in my book.
Ok, now that you've made me jinx myself, are you happy? ;-)
Steve
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for longevity but for resale and quality of construction.When I traded my 98 Explorer it had
went from $26000 to $12500 in 3 years and 36k miles without a scratch on it. So I took a bath on depreciation.In the past I had an 80 Civic and the alternator died at 60k miles,an 82 Accord that
had an electrical short around 80K miles,my 98
Acura power window died at 60K miles due to a
connector in the door,so Hondas seem to have
electrical problems after a while.
Once again, my "opinion" is that the Escape is more likely to be troublesome. No can prove that any specific unit will be more or less reliable, so buying a vehicle for reliability's sake is a gamble. When you gamble, you put your money down on the option that gives you the best odds. The odds are in the CR-V's favor.
How do we know about those odds? Because more people have reported problems with Escapes than CR-Vs. How do we know that there are more issues reported by the average Escape owner? Because we have surveys like those published by CR and JD Powers.
"The biggest factor in how long a vehicle lasts is the owner. This is true of any vehicle.."
Since we cannot predict how well an owner will treat a vehicle, we have to remove it from the equation and look at the #2 reason for mechanical failures: the vehicle.
Scape2 - You asked about Edmunds data and I gave you the answers. I'm not advocating Edmunds numbers over any others. As for where the data is... read the post again. I already told you where to find it.
Here, I'll make it very simple for you.
This is the Edmunds page for the Escape.
This is the Edmunds page for the CR-V.
In the review that accompanies those performance numbers, Ed Hellwig writes, "On and off rain showers during track testing...", in the section where he describes the RT4WD system. So there was some rain. If it was there during braking or acceleration tests, we cannot say for sure. However, if there were wet conditions, that would explain why Edmunds does not include the data in other pages. I freely admit that I'm guessing about it, but it seems logical enough to me.
Actually, Steve was using the German system of numbering which uses commas as we use decimal points so he really was saying 67.777k = 67,777! :-)
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories