Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
As I have said over and over until I am blue in the face. load the CRV down with 5 adults and about 300lbs of gear and then see how well the 2.6 act like the V6 in the Escape..
Increasing Globalization....does 'country of origin' matter?
Steve, Host
A lot of people complain about wind noise in the Escape, we all know that. The fact is, it's not even loud enough to require a raised voice at highway speeds either. It's probably a little louder than the CR-V, but it's not annoying. Unless your previous vehicle was a Lexus or something like that.
"Who agreed to the ridiculous whims of the UAW? Will they do it again?"
Here's another history lesson. Henry Ford was very much against the UAW when it was first starting out. So much so that he almost ran the company into the ground again. Eventually he had to give in to their demands or face bankruptcy.
I think he could see the future or something.
Anyway, the last time contract talks started the UAW had it's way with the big3. Now they are saying they aren't going to budge? Good luck in the unemployment line.
I rode a bus to work a couple of years back. It was serviced by the UAW. They didn't have a contract so they didn't fix the air on any of the regional transit authority buses. Thanks guys but the only person you're hurting are the people who rely on the bus. They didn't care about me. I don't care about them. The cars I buy are from non-union shops.
The UAW needs to reasess their goals.
I changed jobs for one year and worked on changing my capacity within the business I was in.
Now, I work indirectly for Mazda.
So, I've lived your scenario. That doesn't mean I'm going to support an industry that keeps shooting itself in the foot.
Baggs did you also read that in my comment?
Not having any problems carrying people in my CRV and am now up to 67000 kms!
By the way scape......I would love to take you on with our Accord! Are you game?
Well, I don't need to, you said it all. The CR-V fits my needs. The Escape doesn't. I couldn't care less if it's better at towing, 'cause I don't tow. So what if it has more HP - I don't need it and don't want to pay for it. I'm glad it's there as an option for those of you who need those features. But for me, the CR-V is a better vehicle because it has what I require.
Washed and waxed the Escape this weekend, did the old 3 step Macquires wax. Black looks great when its freshly washed and waxed. However, I am noticing some additional paint chips happening on the hood.:-(..
Maybe you should check out the paint protection strips from 3M. I hear it's pretty nice stuff.
Are those the things they were talking about on the P5 thread? They sound like a good idea, but can take a long time to apply correctly.
I've always been partial to touch-up paint myself.
Got mine back after 3 days and it looks brand new. I even got a Loaner under the warrenty. Sadly to say I got a 2003 Taurus Wagon (a.k.a - The Griswald Wagon Queen Family Truckster) But the thing rode really nice.
Odie
GO MOW YOUR LAWN!
Thank you, and enjoy your Memorial Day Weekend.
Of course I should also say thank you to all of those who served our country and fought for my right to tell scape to cut his lawn.
Thank you!
But it looks realy good when it shines.
http://www.nhtsa.org/cars/testing/ncap/
No ads, no popups, no registration. Are you promoting the insurance site for some reason?
Steve, Host
1. the CRV got 'much better scores' and
2. the Escape is not a safe vehicle
The CRV got 5 stars for frontal crash for both driver and passenger. very good.
The Escape got 5stars for the driver, 4stars for the passenger. Granted, not 'quite' as good for the passenger, but by no means a death trap.
Your claim that the Escape is not a safe vehicle is just plain wrong.
I notice the IIHS test of the severe damage to the CRV because of the spare tire, and the exploding glass never becomes an issue. Seems to be brushed under the carpet.. Nor does the braking test on how the Escape stops as much as 14ft better than the CRV. Some reviews as low as 9ft, depending on which review you want to believe.
Scape could you post a warning lable I can print up, laminate and place on my dash so I remember to wear the helmet?
Thanks your pal,
icvci
Exploding glass, that's a good one. Have you ever hit a piece of tempered glass with a hammer? It doesn't explode, it shatters and generally stays in one piece. Especially when it's coated with a tint and is covered by a defroster. If you did get hit from behind, inertia from the impact would send the vehicle forward, and the glass backward. If you backed into a pole going fast enough to send glass "exploding", you've probably got more problems than glass.
It'd seem like there'd be complaints from consumers everywhere about "EXPLODING GLASS!!!". The Jimmy, Bravada, Blazer, Passport, RAV-4, CR-V, and many others have a similar design.
WHO IS SILENCING THE EXPLODING GLASS EPIDEMIC IN THIS COUNTRY?
I nominate scape2 to get to the bottom of this! Our hero SCAPE2! Save us scape2, you're our only hope.
Ralph Nader's got nuthin on you...
Yes, the glass from the hatch on the CRV does explode when the spare tire is involved in a rear collision of some sort. Flying glass in any direction is not a good thing. I am well aware that it is "safety glass" and will not turn into shardes, but none the less it is glass and can still hurt someone.
The Escapes, doesn't by the way..
Enjoying your lawn mower engine??
tidester, host
Scape2 I'm very much enjoying my lawn mower engine...ThankYou. Especially when it puts Escape V6's in my rear view mirror!!! Actually, I love it.
5000 miles on the CR-V now. With one trip to replace the fan in the hvac system. (First trip to the service department in 5 years!) Otherwise it's been a gem.
http://www.autopacific.com/sub.php?action=view&sub=§i- on=12&type=97&group=190&id=255
You guys seem to be forgetting that the Escape catches up to, and passes the CR-V (stick and manual) in the quarter mile, which is the standard measure for drag racing. 0-60 is not.
So technically the Escape would be seen through your front-side window for about 8-9 seconds at which time you'd start viewing it out of your windshield.
BTW do you have actual numbers for both in the quarter or are you just assuming?
The fastest I've been in my CR-V is 80 and I didn't reach that under full acceleration. For everyday driving, I'll take my mower engine.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0209_suv/
Guess who's not winning the 1/4 or 0-60?
CR-V - 16.1 @ 85.2
Escape - 16.3 @ 85.4
Sorry, but the only real-world race you win includes a trailer or 5 fat passengers.
The numbers I am going by are only found in the printed version of MT (where they list test data for all vehicles). The Escape is faster in the 1/4 mile when both have auto trasmissions. I posted the numbers in this thread a long time ago. Do a search if you want to see them.
Edmunds has the Escape V6 auto at 16.6 seconds/83 mph and the CR-V EX 5-speed at 16.5 seconds/83 mph.
I'm not going to be too fearful of any CR-V's beating me in any races (I don't race SUV's anyway) because only about 20% of them are sold with 5-speeds according to what varmint posted a little ways back. Apparantly no one tests the CR-V with an auto tranny even though that's just about the only config people buy.
Is your's a 5-speed? If not, you lose!
Besides, the Escape can't really race, it's always hooked up to a trailer or loaded up with stuff. Right? It's not just a "feel my bulging horsepower" thing...right? It's useful for everyday driving like when you need to...I don't know...pull something sort-of big but not too big. Like a pony. Or maybe a Focus to the service center. And stuff.
That would be a Civic in our case. AAA usually takes care of that for us though.
"the measly "lawn mower" engine can hang with the big bad V6."
Sure. But that's on a test track with a professional driver and they don't even compare apples to apples (5-speed vs auto isn't fair).
"The majority of the time you drive, my "lawn mower" engine, will do everything you need it to"
Take a look at the link below. See the hills in the background? Notice the houses on those hills? All of Pittsburgh is built on hills like that one (that particular one is actually small in comparison to the rest). The CR-V does not meed my needs because it doesn't have the extra pulling power necessary to get me up those hills comfortably. Or at least what I feel is comfortable. I felt that the Escape handled curves better too. The roads that go up the sides of those hills are by no means straight either.
You're what we call a "flatlander". If I lived over your way (I've been to Chicago a couple of times so I know the terrain) I might be driving a CR-V because it would have been all I needed.
http://www.specon.com/pncpark/
This is why we test drive. If I had made a choice based on magazine articles and reviews instead of what I felt in the seat of my own pants (keep it clean when responding) I'd probably be regretting having to drive the CR-V every day.
Yep, I see your point. Actually, I've driven to Philly (to watch the Lions get crushed in the playoffs) and I remember cruising over, around and through those hills.
0-60 numbers depend on who YOU want to believe. Second, you constistantly "forget" to mention the CRV tested is a 5spd AND you have to rev the lawn mower engine to redline between gears, dropping the clutch in order to achieve these 0-60 numbers. The Escape is more powerful and faster than the CRV numbers don't lie. 200HP vs 160, 200ft/lbs of torque vs 160ft/lbs of torque. Oh! I forgot CRV's have some sort of magic that just make them more powerful and faster.. yeah right..
Just load your CRV down with 5 adults, 300lbs of gear and try to pass an Escape going up even a 3% grade.. not going to happen..
Also, how many CRV's are sold with a 5spd transmission? According to my buddy who is top dog at a Honda Dealership.. UNDER 10%!!
Reed, I guess you haven't read the IIHS test on the rear bumper crash of the CRV.. Nope, won't be seeing me in your rear view mirror, you'll be looking at my shiny Blue oval on the rear of my Escape.. Keep on dreaming that the 2.6 in the CRV is better than the 3.0 V6 in the Escape if it makes you feel better. I'm approaching 26,000 miles on my 01 Escape XLT V6 4wd and still waiting for all these problems to arise the Honda crowd loves to talk about. As I have said, my wifes Accord has been to the shop more than my Ford!
With the internet more information about Honda problems is getting out to the public through chat rooms. Honda just hides issues/problems better than Ford does.
Well, I believe you. You edumacatud me on exploding glass.
Oh! I forgot CRV's have some sort of magic that just make them more powerful and faster.. yeah right..
Motor Trend -
Honda coaxes V-6-like performance from an efficient I-4. Manually rowing gears in the CR-V, we almost felt we were driving a Civic Si. Our track testing said we were fairly close: From a standstill, 60 mph came in a scant 8.1 sec and the quarter mile passed in 16.1 sec at 85.2 mph. Who says a four-banger can't keep up with bigger boys?
Or is Motor Trend part of the conspiracy?
Honda just hides issues/problems better than Ford does.
Well, most people would look for problems on the NHTSA site (especially seeing as we've directed you to it a number of times). Doesn't that make you wonder about your ability to find information?
Just load your CRV down with 5 adults, 300lbs of gear and try to pass an Escape going up even a 3% grade.. not going to happen..
Why? I don't drive like that! I don't need a vehicle to do that! I didn't buy a vehicle to do that! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say most people that buy COMPACT SUVs don't do that.
Funny I was just at Ford's web site to compare an Escape to a CR-V and they took it off their comparo page! Feeling the heat boys? But I found what I wanted on Edmunds (imagine that).
Payload capacity for the Escape is 978 lbs.. If you're gonna load it up with 300lbs. of gear your buddies can only weigh 113 pounds each. Got lots of little friends do ya?
Presto!
Doesn't say a lot for the Si does it?
"What year is that Civic again? And how many miles are on it?"
1996 with 53,814 miles.
Interested in owning a classic?
I guess it depends on what you expect from a sub $20,000 car that gets over 30 MPG. Most people who have driven them are pretty impressed with the quickness and handling. I'd say that was what they were referring to.
I've owned too many "classics". Fiero, Neon, Escort, Mavrick...
Too bad about the Civic, my 2000 was a gem. As was my 86. And the 90. If it's such a dud, why have you had it so long?
[But you didn't hear this from me.]
"If it's such a dud, why have you had it so long?"
That's a valid question.
My wife used to love it because it was her very first car, and she bought it all by herself. Now that we have the Escape (and a child on the way) she won't even sit in it, which leaves me stuck with driving it to and from work every day.
We are currently looking to replace it, finances permitting, with either a Focus ZX5, SVT Focus (5-door), P5, 6i, or Vibe. If all goes well it will no longer reside in our garage come the end of the year.
I test drove all but the SVT and Vibe, so far the 6i is by far and away the best car, and value, of them all. The P5 is a close second. Now all we need is for Mazda to offer some incentives on them in this area.
If your 2000 Civic was such a gem, why did you get rid of it so soon?
As I mentioned before if you like your escape, then terrific, we are happy for you. If others like their CRV, great. If others like to drive a scooter, excellent. Not every car is bulit the same or for everyone.
The point is just because one car has more horsepower than the other doesn't BY FAR make it a better car. I am bias, yes, but if I was not in the car industry and know better as far what is "REALLY" better, I would go by OVERALL stats and most of all customer info and dependability and reliability history of both.
You guys kill me, If a car tows more for you on the weekend it's better...who cares how safer it is during the week with the wife and kids...geez.
Ford, yes, has a better history with their truck line. The F-series is a fab. line and if I needed a "TRUCK" then I would def. look at one. But you couldn't give me a Ford car for free if I won it at the fair. It doesn't mean YOU don't like it....
If the reports came back from CR, and R&T and etc, and said that Honda sucks well first I would look at new job, LOL...but I wouldn't sit here and say that I am right and all the reports burying my product were crazy...
Reliability, dependability, service history, resale value, safety, etc all sway to the Honda line....it's just a fact....it's doesn't make the Escape a bad car...just, in my eyes and anyone that is interested in these important issues, not as desireable....
Judging by the sales numbers, the Escape is just as 'desireable' as the CRV.
My Escape, along with the many other Fords that I have had and still own are reliable, dependable, safe and an excellent overall value.
I agree with you, the Escape is not a bad car.
"Reliability, dependability, service history, resale value, safety, etc all sway to the Honda line....it's just a fact....it's doesn't make the Escape a bad car...just, in my eyes and anyone that is interested in these important issues, not as desireable...."
Well said sellinhonda.....
I will give an advantage to Ford though as my son has a V6 Mustang and the Fords tend to have much better torque at low RPMs over Hondas. The Hondas I've owned do have decent pickup, but you need to get the RPMs up. Not a big deal to me, but it is to my son, and probably every other teenager with raging hormones.
Just my thoughts and experiences.....
An interesting analogy I have to mention. I saw a TV ad last night and it mentioned a study done by the CDC on cigarettes saying that american made cigs are twice as dangerous as ones made abroad. So when they interview someone on the street he says this "WOW, I will switch to a different brand, I don't want any more bad things going into my body than I have to".....Have you ever heard something so crazy. Why don't you say I would rather get hit by a car instead of a truck...or how about this one....I would rather drive an american car and have the headaches than be seen driving a better car made by the, gulp, japanese...
Kinda like ordering a pizza with extra cheese and washing down with a diet coke.
People, the american car market isn't hurting because customers can't find them on a Sat. HELLO, I am sad over american products going down in quality too, but the facts are the facts.
Go down today to your Ford dealer, ask them what "incentives" there are on just about anything on the lot, go ahead. Then go to a Honda store and ask the same...hmmm.
Now, do you think even though they are just selling those Fords like crazy like everyone keeps saying, they are going to give you 3,000 back and 0% finance because your special...or could it be, no please don't suggest that they are not selling them and they need an "incentive" to get rid of them.....hmmmmmm
We are all so smart in this world but yet when the obvious is placed in front of us we turn our face.
Salesman "A" comes up to you and talks for hours how this car is better than this one and it's so good for this and so much better than that and it is worth so much more than this and it is this and etc, etc. Then you go inside and he offers the perfect specimen for under invoice PLUS 3,000 cash back PLUS 0% financing as an "INCENTIVE"...
HELLO, if it was the best product, why need an incentive....THAT STILL DOESN'T WORK. Then you go to the next store with product "B" that you were just told how bad it is and they have "0" in stock while they sell them at list with no special finance and the expert mags. rave all over them......
...I am sure I will get an earfull on this but,,,,geez, is it only me or what?
What your implying is that the only reason that Escapes sell as many vehicles as CRV's is because of the 'incentives' that many Ford dealerships have.
Could it be that if both vehicles are about the same in every other category (reliability, dependability, safety, etc), then can dealer service and purchase price be a factor?
I think the CRV does have some type of incentive offered as the Edmunds TMV indicates that folks are paying around $1000 less than MSRP for the CRV. Also, the Honda dealer in my area seems to have CRVs on its lot.
According to Edmunds TMV it does appear the Escape buyers are paying around $1800 less than MSRP.. (Note that with Fords there is a larger gap between invoice and MSRP than Honda).
The Honda salesmen are also spending hours telling folks how the CRV is better than the Escape, and stating thats why they want you to pay more for the CRV.
Many publications (including Edmunds) also rave over the Escape. Edmunds rated the 2003 Escape as 'editors most wanted' and not the 2003 CRV.
In true salesman fashion you're stating
"why would you not go with the product that weighs much better in these issues. "
The problem with your statement is that the CRV does not weigh in much better. Also, if you use only that critera when choosing a vehilce, then why are you buy a CRV, because there are vehicles that are 'better' than it.
What about the Honda owners who continue to go back and forth to the service dept, and yet will go and buy another Honda because everyone else says 'its better'. See mikefm's statements where he had problems with a Honda, but those weren't unexpected because it was a new model. oh, of course.
In your posts your basically saying:
- I think the Honda is better in all of these areas.
- you should be enlightend and think like me because I know better, and anyone who doesn't agree with me is either ignorant or doesn't care about issues that they should care about.
oh, btw, its not just you, there are several other Honda fanatics on this board who share your 'enlightened' view.
There are many others here that agree that both the Escape and CRV are great vehicles and it basically comes down to personal taste, dealer service and other factors that affect preference. After all, it's just a vehicle.
That statement isn't based upon what someone else said. It's not based on what someone else printed. It's based on experience.
Most people expect some problems with new models. It's when a model isn't new and continues to have problems that most people can't deal with. Look at the recall list for the Taurus. The car hasn't been redesigned forever but, it seems like every year it has a recall.
If I'm a fanatic for thinking Honda is better than Ford based upon numerous personal experiences, numerous magazines and numerous long term studies and surveys. What does it make you when you continue to ignore those facts?
Now do the same for the Accord. I went back to 1999 and there was a new recall issued each year.
I still don't think recalls are bad though. I'd rather see 10 recalls than have to pay for the same problems myself somewhere down the road.
If you would take the time to read my post instead playing the "bash the car salesman" game, you would read that I said but the better vehicle even if it is "NOT" a Honda, not because you and your family have been buying that crap your whole life. That is the problem, people buy Fords and Chevys just.............because, not knowing there is a better product out there. I really don't care if you buy a Honda or not, because you could go to a hardware store and buy a scooter and probably be better off. I am sorry but I get sick and tried of hearing the old "car salesman bash" lines. Your damn right, I sell cars....WAKE UP, thats why I know may know just a little more than you.............................
For your info...there is NO incentive on CRV's...as in nothing, nada, zip, zilch....I live and work in Westchester, NY...and all, as in everyone of the dealers here sell CRV's in advance and at or near list...period....
Am I suggesting that Ford sells them because of a incentive....Your damn right, if it was so great, whats the need for an incentive?????
Funny how no one ever stops dancing that one and answers me !
Don't get a Honda or anything else for that matter. If your happy, truly so am I. As well as all of the other Ford owners....
You can meet them all personally if you would like...maybe form a group,
I know they all hang out together.........at the closest Ford service station.