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The last time I priced a Jeep Liberty was about 2 years ago and I remember it pushing the $30k envelope as well.
One of the things we really like about the Escape is that we can get all of those extras and still park it in our 78 year old double garage right next to a mid-sized Mazda6. An Explorer or Pilot would fit too but there would be no way to open the hatch with the garage door closed. We would most likely have to keep one of those a little outside the big door to even open the hatch, then pull it in to park when the unloading was done and the hatch was closed. The Escape hatch opens with the vehicle all the way in the garage with the big door shut and it's really quite convenient. Especially during inclement weather.
Now I may die in peace because I've seen it all!
Varmint
2004 Honda SUV Olympics
Let me bring our 6-month old over to stay with you for one week and we'll see how many rallies you go to!
Actually I don't get to drive it that much because my wife always has it and she's lucky she can drive it on pavement. About the only time we took the old one off road was when we went to the beach. It's more or less just a fancy grocery getter/taxi for us.
Seriously though, that event looks like fun and I hope you guys set some new world records!
There have been a few divorce threats after that one...
Varmint
2004 Honda SUV Olympics
Fix or Repair Daily?
or
FORD = Favors Objective Realworld Drivers?
as opposed to
CR-V = Can't Repair Vehicle?
or
CR-V = Crusty Rusty Varmint?
Just kidding, gang! Carry on. :-)
tidester, host
We had two small black cars in the past and they were pretty hard to keep clean. I'm almost afraid to find out how hard it will be to keep this one clean. Especially once the winter rolls around again.
baggs... we have an '04, all black too. i wanted my wife to get a silver one, but she wanted black, so guess what?
with the leather seats, btw way better than the leather in my explorer, we wanted heated seats too. 'limited' our choices.
Actually the Limited model is much harder to find. Plenty of well equipped XLT and XLS models were available on all of the lots I searched. There were about as many XLS I4 MTX models as there were Limiteds.
I was actually most attracted to the XLT Sport model myself. But once the wife saw all those gizmos on the Limited, along with the body colored cladding (cladding is painted dark gray or gray on the Sport model) she turned her nose up at the Sport.
Andy,
I agree on the leather. The leather in our '02 was borderline vinyl. The new leather Ford is using in the Escape is much better.
How are the heated seats? We haven't used them yet and I'm curious as to how well they work.
I'm still grabbing for the column mounted gear selector though. If I could stop doing that and pushing down on a clutch pedal that isn't there when I go to start it up (Our Mazda6s has an MTX) I'd be OK!
And once again I notice the CRV gang, is pretty quite about the CRV's latest recall.... hmmm....
That has to be for an '04. If not that dealer is going out of business really soon because they'll be losing about $2500 on each '05 Limited they sell at that price. That would be $17,500 lost if they sold all seven. Now the '04's have a $2500 rebate on them right now as opposed to $1000 for the '05s.
Do they mention that that price includes the college grad rebate, military personnel rebate, and so much $$ for a trade too? Usually they do but not everyone qualifies.
The invoice on a base 4WD '05 Limited is $25,202. Subtract $1000 for the rebate and that dealer will lose about $2500 if they sell it for the price you posted above.
The invoice on a base 4WD '04 Limited is $25,073. Subtract $2500 for the rebate and that dealer is still losing about $800 on each one. The College grad rebate is $400 and the military personnel rebate is $400 too I believe.
Numbers like that will sure get people in the showroom though!
Not sure what features the 05 Escape Limited has at 21,795. Similar as CR-V EX?
You tell me who is going to sell you a CRV EX for $20,650??? This very hard to believe. CRV EX go for about 22,500 advertised...And ontop of this it is usually 1 CRV only. The color is usually white too. No choices of colors.
A Limited which stickers at $26,885 does not have MACH audio, moonroof, reverse sensing sytem or any of the other Limited only options. That price will get you an XLT with leather, painted cladding, upgraded wheels/tires, and a "Limited" emblem on the rear hatch.
I can't see how they are subracting $3900 on top of the rebate without losing a ton of money.
scape2 stop saying no one can buy them for these prices. You may not believe it but they are being bought at these prices. I don't believe you have priced CR-Vs adequately. The Pacific NW is one of Honda's major points of entry and a big market for them. If the Honda dealer you constantly talk about is trying to sell them at MSRP that's their business but no one with a brain should be paying that price.
Your comments about resale and this or that always including back handed insults to CR-V owners are getting pretty old IMO. I'm sure some CR-V owners pay more but many pay less than a comparable Ford. That is if they can find one comparably equipped. The CR-V EX blows away a 4 cyl Escape in terms of features.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1- &item=2482341533&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT
One thing Honda does not offer its customers is choices. Go onto a Honda lot and you may find 5-10 CRV's. Lets say 1/2 are EX's, color choices? option choices? 5spd? Automatic? interior color choices? leather? cloth? sunroof? no sunroof? Go onto a Ford dealer lot and you find choices..
I once owned a Honda Accord. I fell for the "resale" mumbo jumbo. Paid a pretty penny for an 00 Accord LX, About 18K. Went to 3 different Honda dealers and the highest trade in was about 10K.. Was told " Lots of Accord LX's out there" "There is nothing special about the LX, its not an EX or SE..." The funny thing with resale is you have to find someone dumb enough or desperate enough to pay it...
I was reading an article in the current MT on Spec Miata racing through the SCCA. It would be really cool to find an older model, fix it up, and race it on weekends. Problem is I'd have to work a second job to support that habit!
Here's the link:
http://www.specmiata.com/Default.htm
Is this the Courtesy Ford you were talking about?
http://www.courtesyportland.com/
They do have several Limited models with an MSRP of $26,955 but if the ad said they were loaded it was wrong. A base Limited doesn't offer much more over an XLT, or even a CR-V EX for that matter, so they should be selling them at a lower price.
I don't know how this dealer is getting away with knocking an extra $3900 off of the sticker before the rebate though. I still think there's more to it and they're using the old bait and switch technique.
I believe you about the ad but I just don't believe what they printed in that ad is true. You're still going to pay much more for a well equipped Limited over a CR-V EX but you also get a lot more.
I said FEATURES, not performance. But if you want to talk about performance I'm pretty sure the CR-V holds it's own or beats the 4 CYLINDER Escape. Heck it comes close to the V6. I'm comparing apples to apples. I-4 vs. I-4. Not I-4 vs. V6. Do you understand?
Back to features. CR-V EX has a sunroof, 6 disc in dash CD changer, alloy wheels, 4 wheel disc brakes, etc. The Escape does not have all those things standard. Can't even get some of them as options.
Choices? It could not be simpler with Honda. LX or EX. Ford? Which option package have they included? Or which option package do I have to buy to get the specific item I want (similar to Honda's trimline situation but not quite).
All in all Honda offers a well equipped vehicle for a reasonable price. Resale value means a lot when someone is leasing and despite your experience (which I don't believe based on your other comments) Honda has higher resale than Ford. It's a fact. Just like when buying a car everyone has a different experience but their is a glut in used cars so even Hondas aren't going to get top dollar like they did six years ago but still better than Ford.
That's MR. Brickwall to you. ; )
My buddy just leased a 2005 Escape XLS (with all of the corporate discounts) for $230 a month with nothing down. If I were a Ford employee, I wouldn't buy anything that I didn't get a discount on.
The new 2.3 4cyl in the Escape is a great start and a vast improvement over the 2.0 Zetec. This 2.3 puts out 160HP in other vehicles that Ford/Mazda use it in. Why they decided to not allow this engine to match other 4cyl engines in this class?? who knows. I agree this was a mistake. 153HP sounds significantly less than 160HP in my opinion. The V6 is by far the best choice for the Escape/Tribute. As much as some CRV owners want so hard to believe the 2.6 (.4 liters smaller by the way) is more powerful than the 3.0 in the Escape still escapes me.. no pun intended.. Ford/Mazda did a great job on the 05 Escape. Better interior, less roadnoise. They listened to the consumer and they delivered..
tidester, host
But since you say it isn't I guess they are all wrong. But again, that is irrelevant because I am talking about 4 cylinder vehicles. Hence my brick wall comment. You just don't want to accept that there is a 4 cylinder Escape. You always want to talk about the V6. I could care less about the V6.
And as for features, again you are wrong. I guess I know more about the Escape than you do.
15 inch wheels are standard on the 4 CYLINDER (again, the model I am talking about). Price out a 4 CYLINDER Escape with the standard items on a CR-V EX and tell me which costs more? You can't because the Escape can't be had with the majority of the features the CR-V EX has. So for every 16 inch wheel you bring up (which isn't even true) I will bring up the standard sunroof (not available on the 4 cyl. Escape), and the standard 4 wheel disc brakes (not available on the 4 cyl. Escape), the 6 disc in-dash CD changer with 6 speakers (not available on the 4 cyl. Escape), the tinted windows (not available on the 4 cyl. Escape) etc. on the CR-V. Heck, floor mats are even optional on the Escape, LOL (standard on the CR-V).
Leather? Well, last I checked these were entry level SUVs. Although Ford is doing their best to break out of that designation---with vehicles like the $29K one mentioned above. And in the interest of fairness it is available on the 4 CYLINDER Escape---for a price. When we're comparing '05s to '05s I'm pretty sure the CR-V will have it. And 16" wheels, and....
And that brings up another point. I am comparing an '04 CR-V to the '05 Escape. Even introducing the next year's model early, Ford could not bring the Escape's standard features up to the competition.
Reverse Sensing? Not available on the 4 CYLINDER Escape. Also NA on the CR-V.
Tow Package? Not available on the 4 CYLINDER Escape. Also, NA on the CR-V.
The facts don't lie. The Honda CR-V is better equipped and better priced than the 4 CYLINDER Escape. $20500 for a CR-V EX with automatic transmission.
I was thinking of something like "CR-V vs. The World" just to even things up a little but management frowned on it! ;-)
tidester, host
tidester, host
Another pretty large dealership that owns Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Chevy, Hyundia, Toyota, Mercury and Kia. Pretty sizable. They advertise an 04 Honda CRV LX, automatic 4WD for an lease of $249. You must put down 595 aquistion AND 1,899 cash down along with other title fees and license fees. MSRP is 20,690. This is an LX NOT an EX.
The Escape has more, lots more than the LX and cost less! to buy not lease.. I can go on and on.. Honda's cost more up front. I have proven this over and over again. They better have a higher resale, they cost more....
I'm not trying to prove you wrong but those ads from that dealer are leading you down the wrong path. Here's the link to one of those XLT's they are advertising:
http://www.courtesyfordportland.com/pages/present/flm/notlocalize- d/searchinventory/vehicledetailsnew.asp?orgid=4142&vin=1FMYU0- 3135KA62382
It's FWD. They also have some that come with leather instead of the moonroof for about the same price. It's a good deal, but on slow sellers.
I couldn't find a comparable XLT 4WD model but figure it to be about $25,800. That takes you to $21,820 if they give you the same discount which compares better with a CR-V EX if you ask me.
Honda CR-V EX with auto transmission for $20500. Ford can't come close to that price for a similarly equipped vehicle. I've shown it. The brick wall still stands. Pity.
When I shopped around, there was no way I could have gotten a 4WD Escape XLT for anywhere near the numbers he always throws around. The base MSRP for a 4WD XLT is just over $25k. The real world price is $23k at best. CR-V EX quotes were down to $21.5k. The Escape was never cheaper than the CR-V, at least not with the V-6.
The ONLY reason he got it was the incredible deal. (They are actually leasing the Limited for less than the XLS.) He had a Villager he loved but, this was too good to pass up.
So, you see, the Escape is cheaper than the CR-V if you work for Ford.
Incentives, incentives, incentives.
And I think you can lease a CR-V for less than $300, although I'm not sure of the terms. And that is for anybody, not just an employee. Regardless, renting a car for two or three years doesn't appeal to me (or my pocketbook).
Or you could get a loaded Tribute with a DVD unit (instead of a moonroof) for about the same price I would imagine.
That was another option for us but we decided against the DVD as I am NOT in favor of those things. Yet.
However, Drive62 has yet to prove to me how he got an 04 EX CRV for $20,500 when the LX advertised is more? I keep asking for a dealerhip name and number so I can call and confirm. Lets put it this way, I won't call and confirm but my friend who is a manager at a Honda dealership can easily confirm. Fact is he is wrong. Go to any car buying internet site and punch in a CRV EX and the prices are higher than what Drive is stating. Honda's don't sell for invoice or even under invoice. You pay MSRP or very close to it or its out the door.
I also find it funny how drive62 can call names, yet when I say something I get my post pulled ???
'04 4wd crv ex 21390. 4cyl/air/alloy whls/cd
'05 4wd esc xls 19885. 4cyl/air/alloy whls/at/step bars