By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
>>But in the end, the big sticker may not mean much. VW is already offering subsidized leases - as little as $697.92 a month for three years on the Phaeton V-8 - to counter lower-than-projected demand<<
My defense of our VW dealer's participation and passion does not extend to blindly agreeing with his opinions all the time. Indeed, I "quarrel" with him over one key element of the turnaround of the VW dealership experience and image: "included service intervals, such as Audi and BMW offer." I have heard and understand the "quantity" issue he counters with. I simply think VW cannot, will not go up market without fixing the dealer experience problem and the the quality control perception. The "audi advantage" service program would not fix the quality problem, but it would be great first aid, until we can get the patient to the hospital for surgery.
The Phaeton is a great first step in this transformation, but the dealership experience has yet, as far as I can tell, to be effected by "osmosis" as I, for one, am hoping.
Generally, the Phaeton has succeeded in being "inexpensive" (V8) when compared to Mercedes (its target) for price, content and features. The Phaeton is a winner in many respects.
Of course, if not enough folks buy them, well, it will ultimately die. The Passat W8 is, to my thinking, a huge bargain -- I have seen but one TV commercial for the W8, and that was months and months ago. The dealer nearest to me keeps the W8's "at the back of the lot" as if he is apparently disinterested or ashamed of them.
And, ad nauseum, I have still never seen the W8 Passat sport with a 6spd transmission.
Yet, Audi recovered from unitended acceleration and the CBS television network's 60 Minutes story -- but it nearly killed the brand in America.
VW and Audi have just come off record sales years -- they are apparently profitable, have deep pockets and ample reserves and credit resources.
Each dealership is an indepentent business.
VW is almost certainly working to cure the dealership and quality impressions in the market.
Where can you get a THAT MUCH of a car for under $700 a month, subsidized or no.
There appears to be a lot of rooting AGAINST VW and the Phaeton and the entire up market march -- which I do condone; but, the one "thing" I cannot understand is how it is possible to say the Phaeton is overpriced.
As I mentioned in my previous post, a $66K Phaeton would appear to be over $10,000 less than a Mercedes and the Mercedes (S Class) even at that price point will not be AWD. True Mercedes does not = VW (and for all I know, it never will), but the Phaeton is a lot of car for the money.
Now, TODAY, if I were in the market, I would still "shop" the Audi A8 -- but I am aware that it would cost at least $8 to $10K more and would not quite be as equipped as the Phaeton.
My experience and examination of the current tests of these cars simply sways me to the more sporting demeanor (as designed in) of the A8.
But, I certainly would test drive a Phaeton prior to making my decision.
You know, though, the car that seems to me to be the one to test drive, just for fun, would be the Passt W8 6spd with sport package.
VWGUILD (Peter) please continue your participation herein and your passion. As I said, I don't always agree with you, but I defend your right to your opinion.
2. VWGuild. Got to agree with Mark; VW Guild is a great source of info about the car and is a valuable asset to this and other forums.
What I am really trying to do is impart real information about a new product...And real world
experience with it..
Jason, you mentioned post #567...I just respond to what I read...If you had indicated in any way that you had DRIVEN the Phaeton; my reponse would have been totally different...But you wrote that you had only sat in the car; so stupid me...I believed you. Of course, you did not write anything about your driving impressions either, a rather curious ommission...
NO WHERE IN THAT LINE DOES IT SAY THAT I DIDN'T DRIVE IT. It doesn't say that I ONLY sat in it. All it says is that from sitting inside of it, I liked the interior. So my suggestion to you is to read more carefully and don't make assumptions. But I guess it is my fault that I wasn't specific enough. I always thought that most people here read carefully and understood what they read. That is the case with most people here but it seems there are a few that need it to be very specific in order for comprehension. I apologize vwguild. It won't happen again. I assure you.
You wrote what you wrote...One would certainly think that the Drive would be a much more important experience to write about, because so few have had that opprtunity...
Just my take on it...But this medium, just like email, requires writing skills that cannot be taken for granted...
And just to throw another log on the fire...I really don't believe that you drove the car at all...I believe this because I am sure that you would have found something to criticize; not applaud, saying that the Phaeton drove the same as a MBZ or BMW...That would really fly in the face of saying that names, labels, badges matter...
no Chestnut wood, etc., and with a $1200.00 Dealer contribution...
Your Dealership's Marketing Dept. needs a change of leadership or they should put the pipe away...;) Actually I think there maybe an error in there somewhere...
There is a very definite need to get these automobiles in the hands of customers that will tell/show their friends about it...And so a special lease, writing it down a bit and putting a 10k mile limiter, and using the 36Month/60% Residual & 0.00140 Factor
can make a nice package...But even a 48 Month Lease with 15K Miles can be done favorably for all...This on a "very well equipped" Phaeton with all of the above...
The lack of any robust job market recovery is taking it's toll across the board in all retail segments...
Specific to VW...We are right in between major changes in Passat & Jetta...New B6 & A5 platforms coming in 2005; so it will take some significant programs to make these current versions find homes...
The last Program used an 18 Month window for it's parameters; so if the same model is utilized,
you will be in great shape...And these 2004s are offering some nice running changes...New Rear views with turn signal indicators built in, new paint colors, 4Motion in the 1.8T Passat, "OnStar", New Wood Trim with the Leather option...
Best I can do for now...
As usual, thanks for the feedback and I look forward to participating in this type of program (as long as I can convince my wife ;-) ).
In the past, does VWoA send letters to those that are able to participate in such a program?
You should check in with National VW site from time to time to see current programs...
waiting in the wings...
98% of all programs run month to month because of potential rate, residual, factor changes...But a good Dealer can always put together an attractive Lease Program...
You know, I think we need more Drivers involved here and get their reactions, but from what I have determined from my Phaeton customers...they don't seem to be involved on line...With the exception of "Doc"...:)At least not here or the other place...
lets break this down in pro's and con's first the pro's
1) it is absolutely a dream stunning interior the perfect craftsmanship of every little nook and detail of every angle it is second to only Maybach and one before the LS430 which i currently own.
2)the drivers 18 way power seater is incredible especially the upper back power seat and under thighs power cushion.
3)upgraded sound is kind of like my home theater territory and with the center of speed gauge dash station display very nice.
4)power moonroof sunshade is absolutely a first, had MB come up with it im sure all you critics would have said wow.
5)the pickup on this car is amazing it just jumps on command i took it to 85mph in the 5th gear without effort,when i reminded myself that it actually has a 6th gear then i upped it and took it smoothly to 96mph with ease thats when the salesman had suggested that all his training for this Phaeton will be a waste of time if he will get fired if i mess the car up, so since he was so nice to me i slowed it down ,,but i was amazed at the smooth tranny that it has being that vw's are not really famous for smooth and quiet engines...
6)the braking and the all wheel drive was in full swing since one of my test drives were on a snowy day very impressed with it..
7)driver legroom is huge which was very important to me since i drive a lot,
here are the con' s......
1) navigation cd based? come on please !a 74,000 car? its not like dvd is a new tech. its been out there for 3 years before vw even thought of Phaeton. oh and Audi which VW makes has dvd nav all they had to do is go to the next door...
2)trunk space wasn't impressive at all but since its not a car for trips with the family it wasn't that big a deal for me ..
3)wasn't impressed with the way it handled on a curvy ramp i took at 50mph it felt like im begging the car to turn with me and im losing the tail end of the car. but i figured out later the weight on this monster was the reason for it which is crazy why VW couldn't cut off some pounds to benefit the handling.
4)the alloy wheels are really ugly! and why can't VW offer 2 or 3 style alloys like BMW or AUDI etc.
(oh speaking of Audi VW GUILD I dont want to hear any of that nonsense about this car not targeting and competing with Audi well I was a perfect example of a lost A8 customer)
5)the storage space is not that great especially with the center console i mean nothing but my palm pilot and my sunglasses will ever fit in there. and the glove box with that big cd and nav player in there not much left for you...
6)the screen is a bit confusing between all the gadgets of moving your car up and down with shocks and suspension systems and tire monitoring it was a bit confusing at first but i was caching on ok at my third stop by ......
And by the way people research this car on EDMUNDS and walk into the dealer and stand your ground at approx.$2,000 below msrp and the deal will fall to you with time patience is the name of the game .I do believe this car will go up in price as time goes on being that the word is spreading about the so called PHANTOM from VW lol. as one of you wrote..
The bottom line is: it is without a doubt as nice or nicer a car than MB BMW Audi and for sure Lexus (which i dont consider in this class @a sticker of 60,000 and all you out there stop calling the Phaeton a 60,000 car it is 100% a 70,000 car which ever way you cut it)for a lot cheaper,now even if this car would be the same price as the above mentioned i would still choose it because of the fact it is a very low key profile without the look at my car I'm rich stmt. with even more power and luxury..
I think VW should target customers that want a top notch luxury car with a low profile attitude,
and all you Phaeton bashers out there can't stand the fact that a VW should cost over 70,000 get over it why could Chevy put out a Vette or Toyota a land cruiser and a Supra or Acura a nsx that are very expensive its all perception,tell me one reason why should VW not be able to produce an ultra luxury car? i mean they only own Bugatti and Bentley and Audi to know the secrets of succeeding in making a great luxury car.
It is the ultimate stmt. to drive a luxury car that is co-engineered with the Bugattis and Bentley's of the world, having said that it does not mean and even myself am not sure it will be a succesfull project it remains to be seen but to act dumb and ignorant and say nah it will never work its a failure i totally disagree with it its nonsense.. this is one heck of a elegant understated big heavy ultra luxury car that kicks butt!!!!(nothing is perfect though)
The one thing i did see at the dealership and VW GUILD is right on that they do have a dedicated Phaeton rep that the other sales rep. send you to. and the dealership assured me that if and when i will service my car i wont have to wait in line at service with beetle and jetta customers that there will be a special service rep. for Phaeton customers and they will give me either a Phaeton or Toureg loaner so there is the effort to transform themselves into a luxury atmosphere..
VW GUILD please let me know if when VW upgrades its nav to dvd if i will be able to upgrade my bad old fashioned cd nav to the new system next year?
I welcome all responses from this town hall and it is a great pleasure to participate in this forum good luck to all of you.... and ill give some more updates as i pickup this car from the dealer....bye..thanx
I'm not sure what the difference is with a DVD Nav system besides the fact that you don't have to change discs as you drive across country.
BTW, I can't believe how well this car handles in the snow. Way better than my '99 A6 was and easily as good as my wife's XC90--another advantage of the Phaeton's heft!
I'm very excited and glad to hear that you are happy with your Phaeton ...
Common all you Phaeton owners (well future owners since its only out a month or so )lets hear from you speak up out there we want top hear real life feed back lets all be in touch and make this into an exclusive Phaeton owners club ...
Congratulations!!! Welcome to the Volkswagen Family!!!!
Carnet...You will love this automobile!!! What color did you get? What options?
Let me take a moment to comment on the NAV...First of all, a coast to coast trip can be made with only your Home Disc...You only need to change as you approach your destination...Coming this way from NYC one would probably want to switch in Nevada...As to the technology itself and Audi...VW has always tried to maintain some subtle points of differentiation with Audi...Some here may remember the endless posts about horsepower in the A4 v. the Passat and the 1.8T engine...Although the A4 was rated at 170 and the Passat at 150, in fact they were both the same...
From our Four Seasons Meeting in October...Additional wheel options should be forthcoming, but probably not for awhile...One of my customers is planning on keeping the existing 18s with All Season radials for the Snow Season at Tahoe, and getting fatter, summer tires and different wheels for the other half of the year... With availability at a little over 7 weeks this party is just getting started...
about what you said about the subtle points of differentiation with Audi you and i know is pure nonsense you cant tell me that VW wants to put less tech. in their vehicles in order to be different than Audi besides the point VW is going to upgrade it within a year i mean why bother doing the old system in the first place when you know that you are going to change it..?!..
In any event maybe this is the great part about this car that this is one of the small con's about it ....
by the way VW GUILD is it gonna be possible to upgrade the system once the new dvd based system will be out?
Excuse me if this has been covered before at length; but, isn't the Phaeton basically the same as an Audi A8L? Isn't it the same platform used on the new upcoming $100,000-plus Bentley coupe? I think this car is plenty proven, IMO. The real issue is getting people to believe that there can be such a thing as a $70,000 VW. It's what happens whenever a car maker goes more upscale. The new Maximas are very pricey "for a Nissan." Even Hyundai and Kia had this problem when they first started selling vehicles over the $20,000 mark. Now they sell a ton of them. I'm sure VW will be no different in a couple of years. I think the Phaeton is great and I hope it is a huge success.
Edmunds shows the following trade-ins for 1 to 4 year old Audi A8L's
4 years 1999 $20,062
3 years 2000 $26,797
2 years 2001 $34,912
1 year 2002 $41,281
I'm not sure what this tells us... but any punters???
I have no interest in an exchange over something that I have no control over, but the differentiation history is well documented...
As to the NAV...I have yet to hear any clear or remarkable benefit of one over the other with the exception that one is newer than the other...Reminds me of the commercial of the guy driving home with what he thought was the latest & and greatest computer only to see the guys putting up a Billboard for a newer model...My point being that the one he is bringing home will take care of his needs just fine. I have found the system to be totally satisfactory, and very quick to recognize that I have followed a different path from the one prescribed and rapidly make adjustments to that different course.
Let me urge you to compare...feature for feature & benefit for benefit, fit and finish, power to power, workmanship, quality of materials, Warranty to Warranty...Forget the badges and tell me what you find...
Are you saying that Ralph Lauren, of polo shirts & khaki slacks fame, should not introduce Purple Label suits???
Is the VW Phaeton proven? Good question. I'd say that some of it's hardware is, but the entire car isn't. Simply because it shares it's engine and platform with the A8 and Bentley doesn't mean the whole car has been "proven". True, the V8 (same as previous/current A8 with tweaks) and W12 (ditto) are proven, though why anyone would mention Bugatti is beyond me. Bugatti has yet to prove anything yet, other than they're having great difficulty in bringing their 1001hp W16 monster to the market. What in the world does this have to do with the Phaeton's volume seller the V8? Precious little. Bugatti's glory days had nothing to do with VW, absolutely nothing. Bugatti is on their third life and haven't done anything yet. Nothing. VW buying the nameplate doesn't mean greatness for the Phaeton. VW hasn't "made" a single Bugatti for sale yet. The Bentley Arnage range was born before VW, only the Conti GT is of VW engineering expertise, again an unproven (in the real world) car.
Bentley's *recent* racing vicotories are the direct result of VW/Audi money/engineering so that point is valid, however the Continental GT is just as new as the Phaeton. The A8 while using the same platform is aluminum in body/frame etc where the VW is all steel, hence the weight gain. This might be a good thing for the VW if you're not into sporty dynamics. The VW should be as solid as a bank vault.
The only way to know if the Phaeton is "proven" or not is to look at Audi, not Bentley and Bugatti.
I do have a question for the owners, does the body of this car shake/quiver after bumps? Several reviewers have stated this, so I'm curious to know if this is the case with actual owners.
M
None of these cars hold their value -- they are not real estate. Perhaps some collectable cars do hold their value. These cars are virtually never considered exotic or collectable. On the other hand, perhaps if you kept one of them "for 30 or 40 years" they would begin to appreciate or maybe they at least would "hit bottom."
Don't become an owner of one of these cars because of some thought that it will be worth X in Y years; might happen, probably won't.
The Audi and the Phaeton are not the same car; and this time they are not even fraternal twins. However they are first cousins of twins married to twins, if you get my geneology analogy.
The tech comments probably have more to do with engineering time, committments to suppliers, "stuff that was already" in the pipeline. I see no reason VW would want a lower tech car -- in deference to Audi.
The stated target for the Phaeton is Mercedes, for Audi it is BMW. The Phaeton, if not now, over time, is to evolve into a clear choice for someone who would buy a Mercedes S class (classic luxury); the Audi is targeting BMW 7 series customers -- ostensibly those who are interested in "dynamic" and more aggressive characteristics, within a luxury oriented package.
This is probably going to not fly well, but, the target buyers can perhaps be categorized the way that General Motors did many years ago with two of their divisions -- Pontiac and Buick or perhaps Pontiac and Oldsmobile or MAYBE Pontiac and Cadillac. The Pontiac Bonneville was a huge car chock full of power everything and leather and wood -- but the emphasis was on the big, honking V8 and, despite its huge size, drum brakes and hardly stiff frame -- it was marketed as if it were a car that was "sporty." The Oldsmobile 98, ditto in every way -- but it was more "luxurious." Even the name Bonneville was meant to connote fast, dynamic, etc. The Buick and Oldsmobile Roadmaster and 98 were more classic American luxury.
You can throw Cadillac into the mix but, of course, there was a decided step up in price to the Sedan DeVille, etc and of course even less of any pretention to sport (than the Bonneville).
Go with the spirit of the above for a moment.
The Audi and the VW do share the 4.2 V8, the 6spd tip and some switchgear and perhaps even some bolts and knobs, etc.
The Audi and VW are built in disparate locations, one is steel based the other aluminum. The next few iterations of these cars are stated to diverge from each other to a greater extent than the current models. There is more similarity RIGHT NOW than the companies seem to imply or state.
They believe -- with some statistical studies to support them -- that these two cars will not "enjoy" much cross shopping. At this moment, I think there is a bit more "we hope this is the case" than reality. The current party line is that less than 5% of the Audi market will cross shop the Phaeton.
Today, that claim is, IMO, probably inaccurate.
Next year, and beyond, perhaps it will be true.
The Audi should be more nimble, it weighs less, after all. The V8 in the Phaeton is tune to 5 more hp to reflect the extra weight of the Phaeton over the A8L.
That the cars come from the same family is undeniable -- but again, IMO, they appear more like close cousins than fraternal twins.
You may disagree -- but the intent (not yet clearly arguable and winnable) is to put forth two distinct cars aimed at different customers.
And, I would be shocked to learn that the CD Sat Nav could be upgraded to the DVD Sat Nav for anything even approaching sane money -- but I could be wrong, it's just my opinion.
In matter of fact i believe again just a personal theory that over the last couple of years after VW has gobbled up companies like Bentley and Bugatti and owned Audi it figured out that it had all the knowledge between these companies to put out a true perfect car to the world and it inspired them to go ahead and take their company to the next level with the new Phaeton.....
VW GUILD is right if you take each feature and option apart and put it side by side with MB BMW or for sure Lexus and take off the name plate the new Phaeton will emerge as the winner of the bunch ....
MARKCINCINNATI'S point is so true none of these flagship cars are made for 5 years from now and how they hold up in value,i mean when was the last time you saw a 1996 or 1995 S class or 740IL? I haven't they depreciate big time, all i do and many friends i know is lease these cars (and lucky me my dealer gave me a 62% residual which i couldnt stop laughing when i saw it) and let the banks and dealerships worry about the car when I'll be looking for my next car in three years from now....
And...I have wanted to say this all day...
"Badges???? We don't need no stinking Badges"...
I am taking delivery on my new Phaeton early this week and I am thrilled. I love the car and without going into details I will just say that "to each his own". I bought a 2000 S500 Mercedes 4 years ago and it has been in the shop for repairs countless times. I knew I was in trouble when I had to have a passenger in the back seat get my Big Mac at the drive through window at McDonalds because my window would not work 2 days after picking the car up new. Ha Ha. I have kicked myself for 4 years about the fact that I should have gotten the Audi A8 instead. So I guess you can say, this wonderful Phaeton has come up as competition against the Mercedes S500 and the Audi A8 and won in my case. Oh, and the resale value on my Mercedes is horrendous. If the resale on the VW is horrendous, at least I will know that I paid over $15,000 less on the front end. Just my opinion. I enjoy reading all the posts on the board here.
After the test drive, I climbed in the back seat to check out the space, pushed the button for the rear window which went down but we could then not get it to go back up. Not a good first impression. VW has had quality issues like this for years with the rest of the line. Why should we believe that the Phaeton will be any different?
I know that Mercedes has had problems with the electronics on the 2000 S class, BMW can't simplify the i-drive on the 745il (marring an otherwise fine car), etc etc but there are still people driving their 1987 560SEL's who won't buy a new car because theirs is still so good.
Every new car feels tight, looks shiny but the test is, will you still enjoy driving it 3 years from now? I wish that I could answer yes to that question for the Phaeton but for now the answer is no. Maybe 3 years from now I'll say yes. Don't be upset by my comments, remember, I wrote that "I do LOVE this car" and I hope that everyone who buys one has a great experience with the Phaeton.
bkpawsat and that is in reference to the mercedes.
i still own a 1989 420sel.
240,000 miles,
about 13 sets of tires and expensive to mantain because the see a mb coming and rigth away you are a mark.
the alternator lasted 175,000 miles before it wore out .
the battery lasted exactly 10 years.
oil leaks at 185,000 miles --new valve cover gaskets.
burning oil---yes at 210,000 miles --replaced valve guides $800.
tranny----leaked at 185,000. cost to fix $700, but it was for a full rebuild since i took it down.--not at a dealer --he wanted $5500. my guy specializes in mb tennys and holds a couple of patents on it.
been hit hard twice and one paint job.the other car total loss.
second hit an suv back into the rear side .it cost his insurance company a bundle to fix.
i refused to total it.
no personal injury ,unless if they decided to total it,then it was another game.
this is the best car mb has built and will ever build.it is mb pinnacle. a little better than the 560 sel.with the air suspension.
excellent materials
exc. quality of assembly
exc. components all around.
problem areas ---one------ tires ,they are undersize for the weight of the car and you will not get more than 18,000 to 22,000 miles per set.
now the new mb ---well you have heard about the lawsuits against mb and bmw 745.
the phaeton..................i still love the interior but that is about it.
it is overpriced for such an unproven car.
and, it cannot turn.......i posted here about the car plowing straight ahead and not following the steering input..........
well, guess what......if you read last week new york times article ,they reported the same tendency..........this is frightful as you come off ramp from an interstate a little too fast and turn but the car does not.
i still like the phaeton otherwise i would not be here ----it is rainning heavily in florida for the last 3 days so nothing else to do.
would i buy one.............no.
would i like to buy one ............yes,but only for driving slowly around town and going on the interstate,
and i will not pay more than $56 . for it.
for now i got the lexus for my wife.
for me, i will wait to see the new bmw 6 and what it does.
and as i posted before ,i expect vw to fold the phaeton into an audi flagship with the 12 cyl engine only.and drop it from the vw line up in about 18 to 24 months.
The only proof is Audi. Bugatti was just a nameplate when VW purchased it, nothing else. The brand had been dormant for a few years since the last ill-fated revival failed. Bentley was hardly the standard it once was when VW purchased it. VW has spent millions reviving these brands, so they obviously weren't in the position to teach VW anything that they didn't already know from owning Audi. This is especially the case with Bugatti, it was completely dead when VW bought it.
The Bentley Continental GT is just as new as the Phaeton.
ffb13,
A 560SEL with air suspension???? I'm also curious to know what the circumstances in which you drove the Phaeton and it "wouldn't turn".
M
VW... I test drove the V8.
Merc1...the 560SEL has a rear air suspension/self leveling system. I only know this because I owned one for 3 years. (it is still one of my favorite cars)
M
If you forget badges and look at the car itself, what you find is that VW as a company is shaky at best compared to other luxury makes. Let's look at several of the most recent JD Power studies (I'm not saying these are the final say, but they give some direction):
Initial Quality - May 2003 Study
#1 Lexus
#8 BMW
#10 Jaguar
#15 Mercedes
#16 Industry average
#25 VW
Long-term Quality - July 2003 Study
#1 Lexus
#11 Jaguar
#13 BMW
#19 Industry average
#28 Mercedes
#34 VW (only Suzuki, Daewoo, Land Rover and Kia were lower)
Customer Satisfaction with Dealer Service - July 2003 Study
#4 Lexus
#10 BMW
#11 Jaguar
#12 Mercedes
#22 Industry average
#34 VW
Customer Satisfaction with Dealer Sales - August 2003 Study
#6 Lexus
#7 Mercedes
#8 Jaguar
#12 BMW
#24 Industry average
#27 VW
If I'm paying $70,000 for a car, I want more than wood and leather and navigation. I want a quality product and a good dealer experience. Judging by the studies above VW isn't even in the same league as their competitors. Of course, the Phaeton may be much better than VW's recent history would indicate. Only time will tell.
the 560sel came with an air suspension or it was referred as such by mb.
o.k. air shocks but not really air shocks ,because they would self inflate ,etc...so it was more of generation 1 air suspension.
as far as the $56. 000 price.............that ,to me ,is what this car is worth .period.not a penny more ,
as far as the jd power survey........i posted above , a few weeks ago ,the GERMAN EQUIVALENT of power and gave the ratings...........
the japanese brands are number one and mercedes is dead last with vw one place above mb or second from the bottom .
and ,this in germany.
PHAETON PLOWS ..... the fact is that this car will plow and scared the hell out of me. but it seems to me that he who talks praises about this car will not address this major issue in a $ 80.000 plus car. and instead diverts by refering to $ 56,000 and not on the key issues which are-----------value for your dollar ,and handling inadequacies.
and secondly ,the atitude of vw dealers .
i tried to go see a phaeton last week in miami ,where i have a house (i still love this car ) and i was dumbfounded by the sales people atitude,they should be out selling used cars..........
even the manager of the dealership was a zero.
and ,when i asked for a lease quote on the car they refused to give me on on the v8 saying that they are not available ,and trying to push on me the sole v12 that they have had in their dealership for some weeks now.
and,the lease quote was for $1200 or so per month.
when i added up the the total coast of the car if i bought it at the end of the lease it came to $ 108,000.
the car had a list price of $ 82 or 88.
so................
M
As Merc1 mentioned...I was referring to a like for like comparison, that's all; not some "Survey says!" criteria...
I will have some more to say once I have driven it myself, but I just wanted to point out that even Lexus owners (at least some of us) do keep an open mind!
PS: I am just waiting for a DVD based navigation system, with an expanded databse, rather than the present system.
The Phaeton is surrounded by three cars and it is in the corner where the service doors meet with the service dept -- it is darn near impossible to detect the car, especially since it is parked head in (the trunk is partially visible from the street and it looks -- at 25mph -- almost like a Passat. To the untrained eye, I would assume it would be not given a second glance.
Now, I am not one for putting the car up on a ramp, painting a "LOOK HERE" sign in white paint on the windshield or some other tacky approach -- but for pity's sake -- is this Passat W8 II school of marketing, the revenge?
I can't figure this out -- either do or don't, this is kind - of an 70% don't. Talk about creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Goal 90-95% of Mercedes content (PLUS AWD on the Phaeton) at 80-85% of the price.
Mission accomplished -- thus far -- big time!
$99K vs $69K hmm -- oh this darn new math, call it 69% of the price and I'll take his word on it that it was 90%+ the content.
Mission accomplished with room and $ to spare.
To those who may say "yea but it's a VW," well it is -- relatively -- priced like one too!
Now, if the dealer would just pound his chest a little bit (here in River City) and make some noise, perhaps the thing would move.
If you have any questions about your Phaeton; feel free to give me a holler...