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Comments
MARKCIN. great point it is really not expensive for a VW a car with these options and specs. should be in the 95-100K and SAMPHOEBE1 is right my deal is also in the 69 range kinda fully loaded so mark it is priced like a VW...
VWGUILD? how do i holler you if i have some questions next week ? since you are so knowledgeable about this car...
keep up the great work here lets stop with this knocking the car its time to put it on a podium 'cause it is a true trophy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I just clicked over 2K miles on my V8 Phaeton equipped with the Comfort/Cold Weather Package and the 270W Stereo upgrade.
My background is that I'm a 40 year old father of 3 in New England who heads to ski country every weekend and thus needed a large vehicle with AWD; my wife has an SUV and I didn't want to go there as well! My previous vehicles were a 2001 Audi TT and, before that, a 1999 Audi A6. The other vehicles I considered were the 2004 Audi A8L and, well, that's it.
LIKES:
The handling in the snow is superb, actually surprisingly so. Certainly much better than the TT and also better than the A6 which did not have skid control, etc. It's easily as sure footed in the snow as my wife's Volvo XC90. I think the weight of the Phaeton helps it handle nicely in the snow.
This car is a blast to drive. The V8 is plenty responsive and the handling is really terrific for a car of this size. Yes, the steering is a bit light, but have you driven the '04 S4? That's even lighter! I don't notice vibration in the chassis over bumps (see below) as had been mentioned.
The exhaust note...Fabulous...this is a luxury car?
The stereo...the DSP is really neat and the sound is super; I've not had the "popping" problem described by others.
Fit and finish and quality control...zero defects. Period. Very Audi-like in the quality of materials. Not a single squeak or rattle. Not a single call to the dealer with a problem. You can tell this vehicle was made with care. Quite a contrast to my wife's 2003 Volvo XC90 which is the biggest piece of junk I've ever owned...and I once owned a Chrysler Cirrus.
Nav System and Controls....Truth be told, this is my first vehicle with a Nav system. I really like the driver-centered LCD which has the street names rather than having to peer over to the center LCD. You get used to the controls which are quite intuitive after a while; I like the fact that the AC controls and stereo controls don't require you to navigate menus.
DISLIKES:
The trunk lid. I don't have the power trunk option. When you release the trunk it doesn't spring open even slightly; you have to dig your fingers under the very small gap to open the trunk. I will ask the dealer if there is anything they can adjust here.
2 Ashtrays and no coin tray?
Some of the glass has slight distortion.
Gas mileage: If OPEC misbehaves I'll be getting a fourth mortgage on the house.
IN SUMMARY:
I'm amazed by the build quality, particularly given the complexity of the car. It's a blast to drive something this big and powerful. It's really comfortable and the kids can't reach my seat with their flailing legs from the back!! It's GREAT in the snow!
Let me weigh in on pricing. The reality is that this car SELLS or LEASES for lot less money than a comparably equipped A8. Yes, even though I can afford a car like this, I still have to send kids to college and the money makes a difference. Clearly VW took me from Audi here.
I'll follow up at 5000 miles!!
With the Phaeton you have three transmision selections...Drive, Sport, and Tiptronic. I tend to use the Tip 95% of the time; so, once again, further explanation would be helpful...
Did you drive a W12 or the V8? And, was this at a Dealership or a "W" Hotel drive event?
If you go back for another drive...try the Tiptronic & Sport modes...Much higher rpms between shifts...
VW would like consumers to believe that cars like the Phaeton and the Passat W8 will convince people there is no need to pay a premium for BMW's or Mercedes. But in the process it is surely killing Audi, which are now as exposed in the US (as elsewhere) as being sadly badge-engineered as any 1980's Buick or Cadillac (or 2000's Saab!), and for no discernable reason.
My brother and I both own VW products, a 1999 Passat and a 2001 TT. For his next car, he intends to buy a BMW, because as much as he likes his Passat, it is not an aspirational product. For my next car I will certainly not purchase another Audi. I am considering buying a Jetta wagon for my wife, however. Because that is where the VW market is -- nicely made, classless $20-25k automobiles. What exactly is wrong with that?? The company is called VOLKSWAGEN??
It is worth noting, for all the VW-philes out there, that the Phaeton is not even particularly good for the price, and has never won a comparo against its intended rivals, the SL, the 7, the new Jag and the LS430. So it's expensive, marginally competitive and carries an undistinguished brand that only cannibalizes from one's own precariously established luxury marque. . . what exactly was the point of it again?
Your brother has a Passat and will go for a BMW and you have a TT and will not go for another Audi?
The Passat is not aspirational, Ok -- is your brother, for some reason, turned off by ANY VW/Audi product? And why after your TT experience would you not get another Audi (let alone another TT)?
My wife has had 3 TT's (her current one is a 225HP coupe) and insists that she'll get another unless they screw up the styling and handling (which the spy shots seem to indicate they will not). Between the two of us we have had almost 30 VW/Audi products and 1 BMW. We usually test drive non VW/Audi products (as a sanity check) when we trade (about every other year) -- but we have, thus far, found that "nothing even comes close" to these fine German cars (in fairness, we rarely test drive anything other than European cars, however -- we test drove an Acura and a Lexis once or twice, but since the late 90's we only test European cars -- oops, test drove a Cadillac once, too).
Anyway, you may have had some bad experiences with VW/Audi group cars -- they must be horrendous, for after having close to 3 dozen German cars, I can honestly say the VW/Audi cars (not talking about the dealers, espeically VW dealers who generally are at best fair) have been unbeatable for us -- each new one "being better than the last!"
Inquiring minds. . .
And, although I defend your right to your opinion about VW's "move upscale, upprice, upmarket" -- I, for one, applaud what they are doing and can already see that the paths of Audi and VW are diverging.
And that has made all the difference [with apologies to Robert Frost].
I cannot even speak to the above...
I am 40 yrs old and all of my life I have worked upwards in income to obtain a Mer.Benz. It has always been a goal for me as I am a luxury car freak. I have been in and out of over 25 autos since I was 25. ( Kind of a sick, expensive, but not planned hobby.)
I started off with VW when I was in college and it was a new $7000 Rabbit Diesel. Drove it 100,000 miles over 5 years and loved it. But in my mind the Merc. was my first desire.
I couldn't afford a MB when I first started working so I started with Acura's 1989 Legend. Nice cars but small and no V-8 engine, only front wheel drive. But still not a bad value.
I finally bought a used MB, then onto a new '96 S420, later a 2000 S500, then for a very short time a 2002 E320. Liked the E320 but too small and just not what I wanted, so I went to a 2002 CL500. I think it is one of the most beautiful cars created. But I've had it 2 years and kind of wanting a 4 door again. Wanting a change.
My point is, I have steadily become more and more disappointed with MB quality, especially the interior materials. Even the exterior components are made of alot of composites. I WANT METAL!!!! You can definitely see MB becoming more like Chrysler and not the other way around. And oh my gosh!, the depreciation is horrible. My CL dropped all the way down to its 4 year residual value in the first 6 months. $103,000 car only getting $70,000 trade in 4 or 5 months. What happened to that MB value?
So, after pricing a S600 fully loaded, you are looking at $130,000. Total luxury.
So, when I got a look at the fit and finish of the new Phateon, I was like totally mind-boggled. I said to myself, "I don't want to like this car. Nothing can ever beat a MB".
But something keeps me going back to the VW dealership as if I were going in to see a "peep show". I feel guilty for admiring and loving what I see. I keep asking myself, "Am I falling in love with the wrong brand?" Well enough of the life story.
The facts I found out today are: the W12 was $88,000 fully loaded as a S600 but $40000 less. This is so tempting.
The interest rate they quoted was around 4% on 5 years, again not bad and very tempting.
Also, the only original W12s are black and I found out that they are immediately going up on the price around $10000 for future orders. As a matter of fact, I get the feeling they are having a hard time selling them,because they will only produce them on an "order basis".
I have been watching this car for 2 years and I was predicting VW was gonna get my attention but after reading about quality issues and dealership issues on these posts and not having any personal history with VW mechanic shops, I am a little leary of laying down that much money for the car. The fact it doesn't have a 3 pointed star on the hood doesn't bother me but a car that may not survive in the market scares me. Edsel??? As bad as I want this car, I MAY just wait a year (knowing the price will go up) to see how this car holds up mechanically as well as a market position. Would you wait? I love the chats on this.
Let me try to answer this in a way that is most helpful; not only to you, but others as well.
You are getting the cart before the horse...No Pun intended!!!
Every Phase I Dealer should have a Phaeton Specialist...The very first thing that you need to do is contact this individual and make an appointment. Not only is this polite, but because the W12 "Premier Editions" are not replaceable at the same price, some special arrangements may be required for an actual drive. Some Dealers may have sold their Premier Edition and cannot offer you a drive, but some may have one that the Dealer Principal is driving, and have a new one to sell as well. Or, if you are in, or near a major city...NY, Miami, Chicago, LA. or San Francisco you can contact the "W" Hotel in that city and arrange for a drive...This Program I believe is running through March.
I also believe that you should drive the V8...Both PowerPlants allow for almost the exact same options...There are, of course, some differences, but we can deal with that later.
The point here is that you need to experience this automobile on the road...City driving, Suberb Driving, and the Country. Your Phaeton Specialist should be in a position to accommodate you in all of these areas. Because of Liability issues it will probably not be possible to take the car by yourself...I may be mistaken, but because the Program has gone away I feel safe in saying, with the GMAC overnight test drive the customers pretty much had to sign their lives away. On the other hand, your Phaeton Specialist should certainly be able to provide you with a Great Drive, and his/her presence will be of benefit due their intimate knowledge of the Phaeton...
This is a major investment...take your time. Take the time to appreciate the fit & finish, the quality of the materials used,
the Standard Equipment...4Motion/Quattro All Wheel Drive, the Air Suspension System, 4 Zone Climate Control, the Dual Pane Glass and the quiet it provides, although it does not quiet the exhaust note...:) Compare Warranties, 0-60? Try 0-90!!! Check out the seating, both Heated & Air Conditioned with Massage, the ease of all
the Direct Access Controls + the Infotainment System...And a NAV System that does not require you to redirect your POV 45 degrees...
Do all of this first...Then we can discuss what you discover!!!
You're right - I need a keeper. This is really costing me to change cars too often and I may be keeping the CL500 for 2 more years to ride out my lease. I want to PURCHASE
P.S. The V-12 performance was breathtaking!!
requires service...get that done and reverse the process...
That said...Glad to hear that you enjoyed your Drive Experience...The window control issue that you mentioned becomes intuitive after a few days...I went through it myself...
Unless you travel outside of New England on a regular basis the NAV should not be an issue. And if you do, you will only need to change the disc upon arrival at your destination...
Best suggestion re: resale, etc., would be to go with a 30-36 month lease...60%-63% residuals based on 15K Miles and you can add 2% for 12K miles...See what happens...re up or walk away...
That would be the conservative approach...
M
This happens wherever I go...You will get accustomed to it!!!
Enjoy!!!
Go figure
After reading your post, I thought you'd be interested in an article in last week's Automotive News, a dealer/trade publication (pretty much seen by industry insiders only). The article features an interview with Gene Langan, chairman of the VW National Dealer Council and owner of a VW dealership in Connecticut.
Two items from the article are worth noting:
1. Mr. Langan says the council's top priority in 2004, as in past years, is product quality. In his words, "The quality hasn't been good. We've talked to them (VW corporate) about this for years."
2. Dealers as a whole are very unhappy with VW as a franchise. VW dealers rated the VW franchise near the bottom in the latest research (VW was rated #29 out of 32 manufacturers, with only Oldsmobile, Mitsubishi and Isuzu dealers rating their respective companies lower).
Don't forget! Post any questions here, and I will do my best to answer or resolve...
When I pull into a parking space from a turn with the turn signal still on and shut off the engine, the turn signal light (front and rear, exterior) stays lit and I get a warning signal in the center LCD when I open the door: "Parking Light On". The exterior lights stay on (only on the side to which I was 'turning") after the car has been locked--and remain on for eternity. The solution is to simply return the turn signal stalk to neutral. Is this a quirk, a defect or is it an intentional design?
--Doc
M
Screen...They can be adjusted for 30 sec., 60 sec., etc. Go to "Other functions"
The only good thing that might come from this (for me at least) is a possible early termination program this summer.
I would think that 2004 -- especially for Audi and VW -- could be tough years without some incentives to move product.
And, as long as the manufacturers are offering both low or 0% interest rates PLUS rebates, plus long term contracts (hence lowering the payments), well those who don't have the stong incentives in place will find that their main customers are the loyalists -- and even then some of them won't be able to resist that "new" whatever from GM or Ford.
Its awesome the drive is as quiet and smooth as anything out there incl. an LS430, no rattling at all on bumps as some of you have posted out there ...
the bad news 2 hours after i drove out of the dealership i got a flat tire which really pissed me off and the screen alerted me right away which is the tire monitor system by the way VWGUILD a question for you,how do i stop the small driver screen from alerting me constantly "FLAT TYRE" after i changed the flat with the full spare? please dont tell me i have to go to the dealership to turn it off every time there is a flat tire.... is there a way for me to just reset the tire monitor system myself?.....
the dealership was really nice throughout the process but i am kinda surprised how unfamiliar the guy was with the feature's and buttons i mean me myself without reading the manual knew more than him.. but i will give him a good score on the survey anyway 'cause he was very trying and very nice to me and of course I got a great deal..
so I'll keep on posting as we go on ,,THANX FORUM
On the Audi system, when you get a flat, change the spare, etc -- well, you still have a flat tire.
I am assuming that you have 5 sensors -- you have 5 OK tires, you get a flat, you change it, you put the flat tire and wheel back into the boot and drive off on the 4 remaining not flat tires -- the system says, "I've still got a flat tire." And, that is true.
The systems are battery powered radio transmitters.
Simply changing the tire and not reinflating the spare maintains the "flat tire" warning.
Of course, Audi and VW COULD be using dissimilar systems, but they often don't.
M
any PHAETON owners know out there why the screen freezes and reboots when you drive fast ? just asking it happened once its too early to know if it is a problem or just a road bump or whatever we'll have to observe more than just one day....Thanx mark cin.
I've not seen the screen reboot when going fast (top speed, 115mph thus far)......
has room to go faster.
Carnet, the screen reboot is definatly a software bug with the bluepoint system, but don't be to upset, every high end car with complicated computer Radio has bugs, a new software update can fix it easy, definatly let dealer know and ask about next Radio software release.
so far GREAT it feels like i own the road it is amazing the car im still trying to find flaws but at no success so far besides the small stupid stuff.....@ day 3.........thanx
This car is getting better and better I am truly in love with it...
One of the posts were talking about the rattling on bumps it is a bunch of nonsense in matter of fact in my area there is a construction zone that i pass through every day,with my old car i ducked every time i passed it with the air suspension set on high or comfort i feel like im driving on a newly paved road without a sweat ...
I haven't listened to AM once since i got the car I am addicted to that sound system it is amazing I have the upgraded sound package and im listening to music and i stacked the 6 cd's in and thats it.
The pickup on this car with the engine throttle is like music to the ear for me as a car enthusiast.
People out there case is almost closed (will confirm and close in the next week or so i only have it 4 days) this is a truly amazing car they (VW) went all out on this and it shows it is a total complete ultra luxury automobile in every sense..
I have driven almost every car out there at one point either by test drive or by some friends and it is not even close to its competitors...
it is very hard to get a real sense and appreciation for this car from a 20-30 minute dealership test drive as i have test driven this car like 5 times before leasing it and i liked it a lot but now that i have had it for a couple of days it is a complete other ball game, for all you skeptics and critics out there i wish VW would offer you a overnight test drive or so that you can get the real feel for it ...
I have also gotten very used to the controls and all the buttons quite quickly faster than i thought i would.
but i have to admit the nav system is um ,,,,"bad" i am shocked at the lack of effort VW gave this part of the car after all its 2004 and its not as if the better product is not out yet. its at best a system that is still better than a paper map on a screen if you get what i mean. but the rest of the car really makes up for it big time.
VWGUILD=question please,,,,,,,,I know that the back seat head rest is power cause i saw it move automatically yesterday but I have no idea where is the control button for it and one of them is up and I cant bring it down and it is blocking my view from the rear view mirror I even tried pushing it down by hand and it wont go , how do i do it?
More to come forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have had no trouble with the trunk but I have the power trunk option as well.
Still loving this car. Oh, the only complaint is that I don't think it has a "rest" button to continue to heat the car after engine is turned off like my Touareg has..........or at least I have not found it yet. Great car!!!!
Here is what I do...I go to the climate/other options screen, turn the car off (leave the key in), then I select residual heat, then remove the key.
ctdw
The end result is that my amp was replaced this week and it resolved the problem. I was offered a Phaeton loaner, or to have the car picked up and returned to my office. VW also sent a regional service rep to the dealer to assist with the repair since they never replaced a Phaeton amp before. I have owned BMW's, Mercedes, Audi's, and Land Rovers and can say that this service experience was equal to or better then any of the above. None of the above ever gave me a loaner that was equal to my car, or ever provided a pick up and delivery service for my car.
Other then the amp, I have have had no other problems and the car is rock solid (no rattles). I have about 1500 miles on it so far.
ctdw