Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

kinley

so what makes passing that slower vehicle any safer on either side?

alfox

Visibility. The driver has much better visibility on the driver's side. That's why passing on the right is illegal in most states.

But if you spend your life in the left lane, you wouldn't know that - only a median to see there...

eharri3

PAssing using all lanes creates a more chaotic traffic environment. Therefore, the safest thing is to have one lane for passing and the rest for cruising. Since visibility is better when moving into the left lane, passing is normally supposed to be done on the left.

Unfortunately, some people prefer to just spend their lives in the left lane. Therefore, the people who would have used it to actually pass other traffic are forced to pass on the right if they don't want to drift along obliviously in someone else's blind spot.

verozahl

Traffic was going so slow in right lanes and my exit was coming up in a mile, so I accel and fly in left lane... and pass the Aurora in right lane in one second and jump on the offramp in the next.
Totally NASCAR.

Passengers went wild. Scores: 10.0 and 9.5, but my brother changed it to 10.0 when I reminded him he has a hard time backing a car out of a driveway.

nippononly

They are so terrible in this country. Awareness of other drivers on the road, speed differentials, courtesy towards other drivers, is absolutely zero. There should be a lot more driver education required to get a license, and not just "brake on the left, gas on the right" but REAL driver training. We are trained in the mechanics of driving here, not the art.

To the person with the story of the white minivan in the left lane doing 60 on I-15, isn't it amazing how that happens on the interstates, especially on the really rural stretches? What boggles my mind even more, is when you come up on a car like that (60 in the left lane 100 miles from nowhere) and it has like TEN CARS backed up behind it, all right on each others' bumpers, and NOBODY in the right lane, so that all ten of those cars could have just gone around it. People really are sheep, and I know it is this type of behavior that causes all those huge pile-ups on I-5 here in central California.

Speaking of Calfornia:
(1) the law requires you to stop here at any signal that is not working. All road approaches are treated as if they have a stop sign.

(2) While it is not the wisest thing to do some of the time, passing on the right is only illegal when there is no marked lane - i.e. passing on the shoulder. On a six- or eight-lane freeway, you can pass in any lane that is open and safe.

The left lane is for passing only! I wish more cops would pull people over for dawdling in the passing lane, and it was a standard part of driver's ed/DMV test. That would solve a lot of problems right there.

eharri3

I was really torn. I had designated driver duty and was in the driver's seat of a friend's SUV with 3 other people riding along after a party. I'm cruising at a straight 66 or so when I see a pair of headlights hovering right in my blind spot. So I speed up. Other car speeds up. I slow down. Other car slows down. I don't know whether MR. Oblivious over there thinks I want to race or if he's just subconsciously matching my pace, but I wanted so badly to just hit 90 and leave him in the dust so I could go back to being alone on my stretch of road, but I knew my friend would pee her pants if I went over 75. It reminded me of how pitifully oblivious, clueless, and inattentive American drivers are, with this herd mentality where everybody wants to hover next to everybody else or right on other people's rear bumpers. There's really no reason you should have to cruise anywhere near another car when the road is so deserted.

ghulet

Just out of curiosity, which lane were you in? If you're on the freeway and someone is in your right blind spot, obviously they're trying to pass you on the right (which doesn't necessarily mean you're going too slow), but definitely don't impede the process by speeding up. That's the worst thing you can do. The other driver, I imagine, just wanted to pass you, there was no point in trying to psychoanalyze his every move.

verozahl

"Moron" comes to mind.

mlm4

Passing recklessly is a problem in Central Florida, but the herd mentality does not exist on the roads here (only in the theme parks). It's "me first -- I want to be ahead of you" around here.

I recently drove I-5 round-trip between L.A. and S.F. and got really frustrated by the cell phone drivers who alternately drive 55 mph - 85 mph as the focus and lose concentration on the road. I maintained a constant 78 mph for one period of 45 minutes and alternately passed and was passed by a woman alone in a Volvo who was talking on her phone. Back and forth, she couldn't make up her mind.

In Massachusetts (maybe not a model for good driving) where I learned to drive, the rule about passing on the right was that it was a no-no unless there were at least two lanes in the same direction AND the road was divided (exceptions being for vehicles turning left, etc.). Of course, no one follows this...

eharri3

I was in the far right. If the guy had been tryin to pass me it woulda been fine. I made sure to keep my speed constant for a couple minutes to let him. He did nothing, just sat there. And as far as Im cocnerned, unless you're driving a 89 Yugo with a hamster running on a wheel where the engine would be, there's no reason why you should be taking forever to pass 1 car doing 65 mph on a completely deserted road. So after I judged he wasnt going anywhere, I did. And when I realized he was pacing me, I slowed down thinking he was ready to speed up and pass me by that time. Still nothing.

kinley

my visability of the slower car is better because Im positioned closer to the car now on my left and actually have a better visualization of that car due to it being on my left. It works for me.

im_brentwood

But his visibility of you is poor.

That being said, I don't see hwo blocking the smooth flow of traffic and passing on the right are good ideas.

OTOH, No intelligent and aware driver should ever get passed on the right. If you do find traffic passing you on the right, then you are driving against the flow of traffic and should be in the right hand lane yourself.

Bill

eharri3

It's too bad that driving is not about just what 'works' for you, but instead what works for you and everyone else with whom you share a given stretch of road. What 'works' is having one lane for passing and the rest for cruising so that we dont create chaos by increasing the the frequency of multiple cars changing into the same lane at the same time. Since passing implies moving into a lane in which faster cars may be approaching, the sensible thing is to have passing to the driver's side so that it is easiest for you to see those approaching cars. This is why in counties where the driver sits on the right side of the car, the right lane is usually the fast lane. The car you are passing doesn't pose as much of a danger to you. What is more of a danger is the speed differential between the car that is approaching in the left lane and your car as you move out to make the pass. It is easier to judge an appropriate time and distance to move in front of a slower car you are passing than one which is approaching at a higher rate of speed than you. Therefore we pass on the left, cruise on the right. If you want to change what is essentially traffic law and common etiquette, I must ask why. Are you bored passing on the left and wanting everybody to start doing it on the right just because you need variety in life? Do you just like to be contrary? Are you really so foolish as to think nobody should ever pass anybody, and we should all be happy to have retired insurance agents set our speeds for us? If so, what was the very point of even inventing multi-lane highways in the first place anyway if everybody's gonna just drive at the same speed?

verozahl

I pass on the right all the time. Honda Odyssey on cruise in left lane... so I blast past in right lane. Keeps him happy... he's still got his left lane to himself. Is it a relative, kinley?

yamahar6

That's the great thing about bikes, you can physically at least, pass on the left shoulder (on the freeway, with a median). Not that I ever do that of course (I actually haven't).

Anyway, although, I am not afraid to drive fast, often I like to drive at or slightly below the limit.

But I find that I am almost as tense driving at 60 as at 80. THe reason is that there will be some person driving at 60 in the left lane blocking traffic, and the rightmost lane that I am driving in is virtually free for miles ahead of me. I try to help out those who have to be someplace soon, and drive a little faster so that they can get ahead of me.

I causes me a lot of stress though: I want to just cruise, but to maintain a decent flow of traffic I can't.

But seriously though, If the limit is 65, and someone is doing 70 in the leftmost lane, and you wanna go 85, you can't really get mad now can you.

I mean me personally, sometimes I wanna go 100, but the guy in the left lane is only doing the limit, basically. There's nothing I can do, and it's stupid for me to get mad at him, because I'M the one breaking the law.

verozahl

yamahar6, if you can't handle the "big bad scary open road," stick to the driving simulator.

eharri3

Whether hes doing twice the limit, half the limit, 5 below the limit, whatever. If he's making an effort to show a slower car his tail lights, Ill wait for him to finish the pass. If he's not doing that, he has no right to be there.

ghulet

...unfortunately, it's become SOP to pass on the right on roads like I-55 between Chicago and Joliet (I drove it today). Most people are going 60 across all three lanes, and trying to convince those drivers to do otherwise is pointless/fruitless. It's best to just get around as best you can and not think about who's violating which 'rule(s) of thumb', courtesy goes out the window. These drivers are generally clueless, and many 'drivers in the know' must treat them as such.

alfox

after all these years in TH it finally sunk through my thick skull - kinley's trollin' us a bit. Nobody really drives like that, and then defends it against law and logic. I think he's pulling our chains a bit. Think I'll ignore him.

pat84

Two lane each side of a divided highway. Traffic was light to moderate. There is a LLC going 45 in a 55. I come up a good 3-4 car lengths behind him and flash my lights (there was plenty of room for him to move over). He hits his brakes. Lucky there was no one behind me as I had to get on my brakes. I end up passing on the right, and give him the finger.
He holds up a badge. I gave him the finger again. It was a fireman's badge.

verozahl

But you don't need to flash. Vero never flashes,
just speeds by on whatever lane is open.

alfox

nearly as much of a problem as the LLC.

verozahl

You don't understand LLCs. They're harmless except when all the other lanes are full. On an open road, pass them on the right while they play with cell phone/Whopper(tm)/important discussion with mother-in-law.

theworm

Usually just lurk here, but here's an excerpt from 'Commuter Chronicles' in today's SF Chronicle. Entire article is here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/05/20/BA241689.DTL

(snip)

Andretti seeks a smooth commute

Ex-racer offers tips on driving

His name is synonymous with speed, but legendary race car driver Mario Andretti has paid his dues over the years -- slogging through horrendous traffic in some of the world's major metropolitan areas.

"Many people think I look at (commuting) differently, but when you get down to it, I'm exactly as frustrated as you are," Andretti said during an interview in his suite at the Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco. "I probably say the same things and use the same vocabulary as everyone else."

With that in mind, The Chronicle solicited driving tips from Andretti, who was in town for the start of the California Mille, a road rally of vintage race cars through Northern California.

Andretti, 62, has five grandchildren. He retired from race car driving in 1994. He lives in Nazareth, Pa., about 60 miles north of Philadelphia, and owns a late-model Corvette, a Lamborghini and a Mercedes.

"I love cars," Andretti said. "I indulge myself from time to time."

While Andretti doesn't have the daily grind of having to drive to work each and every day, he often commutes to business appointments and social engagements in Philadelphia and New York. When he's in the Bay Area, he checks in on two of his businesses -- the Andretti Winery in Napa and the Andretti Speedmart at Ninth and Howard streets in San Francisco.

The retired champ admires smooth and skillful driving and abhors gridlock, absent-minded commuters and what he calls "road vigilantes" -- slower-paced who tie up the fast lane.

"When other people ride with me, I find myself criticizing other drivers so much," he said, "to the point where, whoever's listening to me, finds it real annoying."

TIP NO. 1: MOVE OVER

His chief gripe is bad manners.

"I think road manners in this country are so terrible," he said. "I look at a good driver on the road with as much pleasure as I look at a young child who has proper etiquette. The fact that it's so rare is unfortunate. We have all the laws about speeding, but I don't think there are enough rules about road etiquette."

He is especially peeved by "people who park themselves in the fast lane at 65 mph, or whatever the speed limit is, and won't let anyone pass. These road vigilantes think they have the moral authority to stop anyone else from going faster," he said. "But they create a situation where cars have to weave in and out to get around them. They're the ones who create the accidents."

Andretti cautions slower drivers to defer to faster drivers.

"What you should do is let the person pass who wants to pass," he said. "If he gets caught down the road for speeding, that's his problem. But let him do it as safely as possible.

"Reckless driving is dangerous. . . . I don't condone (speeding) because it's against the law," he said. "But I'll take the speeder over the reckless driver any day."

alfox

OK. I'm glad to have illumination on the subject wrought from your years of driving experience. Thanks.

verozahl

Flashing a LLC to annoy the crap out of him may make him move over. Oh boy. Speed past him and guess what? He usually pulls back over.

Different solution: Follow him for a bit, then pass on right at accelerated throttle and slide back into left lane. Seeing crazy drivers dive-bombing all around him, this tends to make LLC more likely to move over and move back to safety of right lane.

target3

If a driver wants to guarantee that I will stay in the left lane, he just needs to flash his lights.

dave330i

"Flashing a LLC to annoy the crap out of him may make him move over. Oh boy. Speed past him and guess what? He usually pulls back over."

If you bothered to read the driver's manual, you'd realize flashing the car in front of you with low beams is the preferred method of asking them to yield.

eharri3

>>>>Seeing crazy drivers dive-bombing all around him, this tends to make LLC more likely to move over and move back to safety of right lane.<<<

I usually flash first and then go around on the right if there's no response. Most people understand that flashing isn't an attempt to be annoying but to say 'please get over at your earliest convenience'. 9 times out of ten otherwise,going around on the right doesn't turn out well for me. Why? I could wait 2 minutes. I could wait five. I could wait 10. But usualy the time when I decide to get over is right when the LLC decides to do the same thing. This ends up trapping me in the right lane for even longer as those who were behind me in the left start speeding up and passing as soon as I get over and the left lane camper has moved over.

verozahl

My parents don't get it, they like to tail and flash (happens when you get old). So, you have two old and (progressively cranky) drivers fighting with each other. Flashing never works in my experience... it only irritates the LLC and makes him more determined to hold his defense of his Left Lane Camp.

I don't have time to play with him all day/night. I pass his Buick/Camry/Accord and then swing into the left lane again if I want to send him a message or get past a car in the right lane. On an open road, I continue in the right lane and let him enjoy his 65 mph camp.

This ain't Deutschland, dave330i. Americans want to camp, and thus passing on the right is a necessity. Yes, be careful around entrance and exit ramps... not just for incoming traffic, but for police cruisers. They're not interested in LLC laws, only moola for state coffers.

ranald

That's kind of sad. You do realize you just boasted of being one of the special people that this thread is about, don't you?

pdalpsher

at only 3-4 car lengths distance wouldn't get me to move over...because if you were closing fast, losing your patience I'd be likely to be rear-ended by you as you switch to my right just as I change lanes. It is safer for me if I let you blow around me and then I'll move to the right.

Do you realize that if you are only traveling 10 mph faster than I am you are still closing the gap between our vehicles over 500 ft/minute. You have to give me time:
1. To judge the speed differential (can be a real trick in mirrors sometimes),
2. Determine I can make the lane change safely,
3. Complete the lane change.

(5000 ft/mile, 10 MPH covers 50k ft/hr /60 = 833 ft/min)

If you want someone to move over flash as you are approaching...I'd recommend 500 feet or more to give me 30-45 seconds to completely get out of your way...you need to give the vehicle enough time to make a safe lane change...3-4 car lengths is probably tailgating and it is just rude to flash beams at that distance.

verozahl

target3 proves my point. Pass him and get on with your own road show.

dogtrainer

I hope you understand that your story about blasting around slower traffic then jumping in front of them to get off at your exit makes you a dangerous, inconsiderate and totally self-centered driver. Exactly the kind of driver this thread is about and the kind you have so much contempt for.

Let's see, assuming this terribly slow traffic was doing 50, and the exit was 3/4 mile away, what would you have lost by being polite and staying in the right lane, 50 seconds? Only emergency vehicles need to save that kind of time, that's why they have sirens and lights.

verozahl

... wait, what benefits do I get for my official status? Where's my gold prize trophy?

I'm not a dog... you can train an Oldsmobile driver to fall asleep in the right lane holding up traffic for miles, but you can't tell me that a minute of my life should be stolen by his inability to realize that there are others in the world that have places to go. Like the supermarket.

target3

If I am in the left lane, I am not intending to hold up traffic. I am usually moving between 70-80 mph. The minute I move over to let someone through on the left, I get caught in the right lane behind some slow morons. Thus, I stay in the left lane. There are plenty of opportunities for people to pass on the right, if the want to. They just have to get it up to 85-90 and do it.

This is just within the city, with all of the on and off ramps. If I am actually out on an interstate in the middle of nowhere, I will be in the right lane.

verozahl

There's even a name for this street-action move: "middle lane gun barrel!"

nippononly

I used to think this way too: if you bomb around LLCs and jump back into their lane fast, they will get the message that they are going too slowly for the lane they are in, and move to the right. For YEARS I tried this method, and got nowhere. Most of the drivers that would have these discourteous driving habits in the first place are way too oblivious to even see what you are doing, let alone care. So I haven't done that in the last few years. Besides, I figure you might scare someone jumping back into their lane so fast, and what if they swerved and crashed. Wouldn't you feel really bad about that?

And as far as I know (having been informed in traffic school, LOL!), in California what you are describing is illegal - you are not allowed to come up behind and flash someone, and you can get a ticket for it if a cop sees it. Illegal tailgating or headlight flashing or something. The traffic school teacher was real clear on it. If you come up behind them and they do not see you or do not yield, the only choice you have is to pass them on the right. On a multi-lane freeway, I do not believe this is very unsafe. One should just be sure not to get close to the car one is passing on the right - the point people are making about the right side blind spot being worse than the left side is true.

nippononly

in ANY multi-lane highway situation, the left lane is for PASSING ONLY. You must NEVER stay in the leftmost lane, unless you are passing a car right at the moment you are in the lane. And as soon as anything faster than you appears in your rear-view mirror, your only job is to move over to get out of its way. It does not matter whether you are going the speed limit, or 50 mph over the limit. No difference.

target3

The left lane as a passing lane rule never gets enforced. Funny, though, how many people who get irritated if I do not move over (so that they can drive 85mph unimpeded) are also those who stay in the left lane. It seems LLC-ing is only bad if someone else gets in your way.

Even though I stay in the left lane in city traffic, if I do come up on someone else going slower, I simply go around them and get back in the left lane. It is not a big deal.

kinley

"Evidently being one of the "thousands" of drivers who are "clue"-less in Seattle, I plead not guilty to making a sudden swerve into a righthand lane so as to not impede your progress. I reserve that maneuver for emergency vehicles. I admit I tend to judge "the speed of traffic" by what the majority of drivers are doing and not on what the idiot on my bumper thinks it should be. Share the road -- it is not your personal playground to play the bully. Lives besides your own are at risk."

"It is irresponsible for you to readdress the problem of people driving the speed limit in the HOV lanes. These are not the "drive as fast as you want lanes." Drivers in the HOV lane are under no obligation to move for those people exceeding the speed limit (which, by the way, would be breaking the law)."

"Just what does "get outta the way!" think the HOV lane is, a racetrack? It is for vehicles with two or more persons, which does not mean they can exceed the posted speed limit. We sincerely hope this ranter has to explain his speed to a patrol officer one day. The speed limit is the same for ALL lanes, and that includes the HOV lane."

Why complain about the LLC going the speed limit when the posted limit is as fast as you should go?
The "vigilante" saw is dull. And remember, when driving at less than the posted limit, keep right and I do.

eharri3

Kinley, why in the heck are you searching for a Mercury Merauder. That's one heck of alot of performance car you're going to pay to be able to drive at 55 in the left lane in.

seminole_kev

maybe because it will look like a cop car to help in his "enforcement"?

pat84

Kinley you can stir the pot with both ends of the paddle.

yamahar6

Veroz, actually I can handle the "big, open scary road" just fine, thank you.

I have a question for you though: Do you signal when you are changing lanes?
That is do you ALWAYS signal?
Personally, even if I am going 120, there is a guy on the LL going 65, and I have to pass on the right, I still make it a point to signal.

Lastly, I would request that you keep your snide, remarks to yourself.

And finally, there was a poster who said that the people who go 85 mph often are the left lane hoggers: as someone who does admittedly drive fast occasionally, well, yes, if I am the fastest car, then I DO stay in the left lane.

If however, there is a guy who wants to go faster than me, I am prepared to, and always do, slow down to whatever speed necessary to move over.

What irks though is that sometimes, after I move right and then get back in the left lane, the same guy I moved over for has slowed down, and now refuses to return the favor.

tboner1965

I try to stay in the right lane.

Attracts less attention from Johnny Law.

If I crest a hill in the right lane just as I'm passing a LLC, and I get on the brakes, guess who it looks like is speeding, especially if I get on the brakes hard 8^)

Radar from a distance cannot distinguish which car. Laser can, but radar spreads out quite nicely.

So stay in the left lane camping out, for all I care. You are just bait as far as I'm concerned 8^)

TB

verozahl

Exactly, tboner.

I always use turn/lane change signals. If anything, I do it because they look cool on my car. Also, they keep campers awake... "oh look, we're getting passed!" ... not that it means anything to many or most. Oh, another reason to use my signal is that Honda turn signals make the best sound (not that you notice with audio system on).

Yes, kids, always use your signal.

justfind6

There was an interesting article in the Philadelphia Inquirer a couple of Sundays ago, about a small town (I forget where) enforcing ALL traffic laws. They were giving tickets for doing 26mph in a 25 zone, tickets if you stopped for less than a count of three at a stop sign, etc.
The interesting thing is that the newspaper complained about it! They estimated the town's annual revenue based on tickets, and it was enormous.
The thing is, I wish they would do this everywhere! Can you imagine? Within a month, even eharry would be off the road, having lost his license for cruising in the left lane on a deserted highway, now that all those 'speeders' are also grounded.
Maybe then, Americans would realise how ludicrous the system is, and actually DO something about it.
As it is now, it's just a vast cash cow for the authorities. They purposely don't enforce the laws. Just think - if they really wanted to keep traffic on the NJ Turnpike to 65mph, why not just put state trooper cruisers on the highway every morning at rush hour, and have them do 65 in the middle lane, with flashers on.
Who'd pass them? No one.
Who'd be late for work? Most everyone.
Who'd be the most irate? Employers.
But no, they'd rather hide in the bushes, let traffic cruise at 80mph, and pull over the occasional 90mph car.
And people wonder why there's no respect for the law?
I think it's funny that the speed 'limit' is, in most cases, the absolute minimum speed you would ever want to do on a highway.

kinley

to get us up the mountain areas in the NW and Canada for alpine skiing. Other reason is for towing a 17' SeaRay to high mountain lakes. The TC is presently just adequate in the performance area, but the MM would do better in the Cascades and Rockies especially East B.C. The TC would be OK if we were flatlanders. We are also considering the Jaguar S which would be a downsize, but fun. At 55 mph, we are not in the Left Lane as the speed limit is from 60 to 70.

pat84

55 sounds perfect for the left lane on 65 or 70 road. Are you feeling poorly ?