Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

verozahl

So, if you see a Lexus RX come to a sudden stop in the King of Prussia construction zone, are you able to rate the driver's "panic factor" by the number of flying Gucci bags?

My parents visit Philadelphia on an annual basis for the flower show, and we also have some family in the city. Obviously, I prefer Pittsburgh.

grbeck

Actually, the driver wouldn't panic. You rate the severity of the incident by the number of PennDOT workers who have to jump out of the way to avoid getting hit.

eharri3

Considering I go through the 202/76 interchange to get to work at Sear in the mall. Right when you approach the mall traffic in the right lane gets really really slow as some people merge from 202 while others slow down to exit. IT feels like it takes as long for me to go that last 500 yards as it did to go the other 15 miles to get to that point. Lots and lots of zippering goes on.

verozahl: If your parents come to the city for a major event, I assume they've had run-ins with the wonderfully hospitable Philadelphia parking industry, motto: "Doing our best to serve your needs by quadrupling our normal every day rates whenever there's a major event anywhere in the center city area!"

The thing about insurance is, the people who have no insurance mostly drive throw-away cars. Impound them, and they'll go pay 400 dollars for a new one. Get in an accident, they'll run away and buy a new one. Even if this happens as often as once every six months, it's cheaper than insurance. And for many it doesn't happen that often. I blame the insurance companies for bilking a captive market more than I blame those who drive uninsured. Every time the companies back a campaign by city government to get uninsured drivers off the road they always use the excuse that it will drive down costs for the rest of us, but when anybody tries to hold them to that and make them promise that catching scofflaws will make everyone's bill lower, they talk around the issue and start saying how 'other things' figure into how rates are calculated and its not that simple.

As for 76, dont get me started on it. I despise this road for many many reasons though I have no choice but to drive it often. Traffic jams happen very easily any day of the weak, any time of day. I've seen them on Saturdays and Sundays, even after midnight during the week. One left lane blocker can control the whole flow of traffic. It's only two lanes, and it will never be expandable in most places. Oh god, see what you gone and done, Im all worked up now. Where's my angry pillow... I have to drive to work in the morning...

verozahl

um, don't uninsured drivers loose their licenses when they're caught?

Ann Arbor gets most of its annual revenue from parking tickets... entire streets magically become "no parking zones" at random days, and only the folks in a basement at city hall know who's next to pay up into the city coffers.

As for me, I pay a ton of moola per month to park my car in the parking garage next to my building (there's a very nice looking Nissan Altima sitting on the top floor now)... I figure, heck, I'm entitled to being an inconsiderate [non-permissible content removed] flying around the parking structure at rally-car speeds.

Ann Arbor's great... the ticket people give parking tickets to cops here. Who needs inconsiderate drivers when you have Municipal Big Brother?

"Angry pillow" time for me too.

grbeck

verozahl: Yes, in a perfect world that would happen, but please remember that you are dealing with the court system in Philadelphia. Remember, this is a place where someone was driving around with $21,000 worth of traffic and parking tickets to his name.

eharri3: An acquaintance of mine moved from Harrisburg to Montgomery County around the Collegeville area. He had to drive from Collegeville to City Line Avenue for work via Route 202 (I believe that was the road)...it took him 1 1/2 hours to get to work in the morning. That's as long as it takes me to get from the New Cumberland exit of the Pennsylvania Turnpike to the King of Prussia!

As for the Schuylkill Expressway...I'm amazed at a road that has traffic jams on SATURDAY MORNING! And not because of an accident or construction. The road is not equipped to handle even the weekend volume of traffic.

eharri3

To a Philadelphian that's a pretty funny and also a rather naiive question, but yes. if they get caught without insurance, and assuming they actually have driver's licenses in the first place that are ripe for the taking, those are in fact taken away. hence the next step to full-fledged dead-beat driver status for your average aspiring scofflaw... driving without a license.

geegee1958

I have read that something like 55% of drivers have no insurance. They allow you to buy policies for terms of one month (not pay monthly, the actual term of the policy is one month), so some of these people are actually buying insurance for only one month, to get thru the registration process, and then they let the policies lapse, since they never intended to pay for insurance indefinately. For those of us who do pay for auto ins., there is something called the uninsured motorist fund, that we are charged additional $$ for, to protect us from accidents with those who have no insurance. I don't know if they have this in other states, since I only have driven in Florida, but uninsured motorists seems to be really bad down here.

daysailer

uninsured motorists pay an additional fee at registration to provide the fund. In addition, I believe that the State will revoke liscense and can impound the vehicle if an uninsured motorist does not settle damages for which he is liable.

pjyoung

revoking the license does nothing to keep idiots out of cars. A couple of months ago a 19 year old girl was killed by a drunk with a revoked license who was driving the wrong way on an interstate. The only consolation is the drunk died as well.

alfox

to drive without a license in Mass. - legally. It's mandatory, and part of the licensing process. Your insurance company cancels your policy, the state revokes your plates. Real simple.

However pjyoung is correct - revoking the license does nothing to keep idiots out of cars. There's no shortage of people driving without a license, and driving without insurance, laws or not.

My daughter just moved home, after living out of state for 2+ years and being covered on another policy the whole time. I happen to know that in this state every driver who resides in the household must be listed on the policy, so I called and had her added. If I hadn't done that, and she had an accident, she would not have been covered, making her an uninsured driver. Scary. I wonder how many are driving out there under similar circumstances.

geegee1958

did an expose one time- they sat in traffic court, and followed people outside, after their licenses had been revoked or cancelled, and 95% of them walked outside, climbed into their cars, and drove away. It's probably safe to assume that many of them (perhaps most) may have known their driving priviledges were about to be taken away, yet most of them did not have someone accompany them, who could drive them home, after the fact. It's pretty obvious that these people have no regard for the law, and if they will drive w/o a license, a petty issue like no insurance will not even faze them.

alfox

I consider lack of auto insurance to be a major problem. The opportunity to cause harm and serious financial difficulties to other people while driving is greater than anything most people do in their lifetimes. Even basic compulsory coverage is some help to people maimed by cruddy drivers.

Of course, you're right - they do consider it unimportant, because uninsured drivers often have no attachable assets, and could care less about others they may hurt, it is a petty matter to them.

geegee1958

I was being sarcastic!

andy300m

This should be in drivers ed or something:

http://hellsgate.online.ee/~mait/fahrschule.swf

:-)

pjyoung

Northbound freeway entrance ramp was backed up. People in the eastbound left turn lane to get on the freeway proceed into the intersection...the light for the westbound folks turns green, but those folks can't move because the idiots are blocking the intersection. And they REMAIN blocking the intersection completely thru the cycle of the light. They got nowhere....WE got nowhere, and the line of traffic just keeps backing up.

pat84

Regarding "zippering" at toll booths, it is more the reverse of zippering to a degree. There are generally more toll booths than lanes going into the toll plaza. Some of the lanes are specialized for multi axle vehicles It is generally the far right toll booth. Then there rare E Z-Pass, correct change only, etc.
To do it correctly requires a driver to read the signs above each booth, comprehend what they have read, make the decision as to the appropriate booth and get in that line. What happens is that some drivers get in the wrong toll booth line. They don't realize this, until they are almost up to the toll booth, then they nose into another lane. BTW some of the booths may be closed. I have seen people start towards these lanes, too.

alfox

Most of the jockeying I see at tolls are due to exactly what you describe. Toll plazas work best if traffic is able to distribute itself evenly over the available lanes. But in heavy traffic you can get "rail-roaded" into a line you don't want to be in, but you can't move over because of traffic next to you. That happens real often when there is one or more special-purpose lanes in the middle of the plaza (EZPass, exact change, etc.), and traffic heading for those lanes effectively blocks people using the other lanes from moving over to less crowded lines.

On the Mass Pike Weston Tolls (eastbound) I often see long lines for the two or three regular lanes on the left side of the plaza, while others go empty on the right. This is because of the way the road widens mostly on the right, with the special purpose lanes in the middle - cruddy road design!

tboner1965

Entrance tickets and exit tickets for those who pay cash, and EZ Pass readers at the beginning an ends for those who don't.

Make the actual road safe, and collect the money as you enter/exit.

TB

daysailer

the identification text for the electronic signs became too long to display. The brilliant solution was to display the text in two lines SEQUENTIALLY. In the chaos of the toll booth approach, you connot afford to look at any one sign long enough to read both lines so you may well find yourself in a bad position at an inopportune time.

beachnut

I've ever seen are in Miami/Dade county on the Turnpike extension at Doral and Kendall. The lanes must number into the teens, with change/exact change/Sunpass booths all mixed up across the plaza. Very confusing, and very easy to get railroaded into the wrong lane. Plus there's no lane striping, so it's difficult to tell which booth you're actually shooting for. Wow, what a mosh pit. To makes matters worse, on the other side everyone has to merge back down to two lanes and it's all under construction.

Over here, on the more "laid-back" west coast of FL where I live, it's not too bad (yet). My biggest peeve, is the out-of-towner who can't read the Exact Change sign above the booth, stops, then waves his $1 bill out the window! Aaarrgghh! I'll have to admit that I did this once, though. I was driving home in a rental car, pulled into the LeeWay lane, and realized I didn't have a transponder! Oops!

On a more morbid note, I actually saw a toll attendant get killed one day on the Sawgrass Expressway plaza (Broward county). I'm not really sure why these folks think they're invincible, walking out in front of traffic like they do

Hey TB! We miss you over on the MPV board ;-)

alfox

except that is the end of the Pike, where all those tickets have to get paid. I'd like to see them just eliminate the tolls all together, but in the post-Big-Dig world here, that just ain't gonna happen!

pat84

The NJ turnpike(and PA, OH, and IN turnpikes) are the ticket when you get on, pay as you leave, type toll roads. The Garden State Parkway is a throw the change in a basket type toll Road.
I once went through the NJ turnpike ticket booth to get my entrance ticket without stopping. I took it out of the attendant's hand at about 5 MPH. I got pulled over by a cop parked right after the toll booth. He told me to stop and take the ticket. I didn't get a ticket from the cop, just a talking to. I guess I gave the attendant a paper cut.
Many years ago, I got a ticket in Ohio for getting from one end to the other too fast. That was when the speed limit was 70. I had stopped for gas, too.

pjyoung

Is I-44 in Oklahoma. I believe it's the Will Rogers Turnpike. On that one, you get a ticket at a booth when you get on...about 20 miles down the road, you stop and pay the full toll, where they give you a receipt, then, if you exit before the end of the tollway, you stop an another toll booth on the exit ramp and get a refund.

kinley

of your auto policy. Is there a written exclusion for non declared members of the family? If so, please advise what state allows this and name of your insurance carrier. I'm aware of the agencies wanting to know about all drivers in the household for rating purposes, but I've not seen written in the Exclusion section any reference to undeclared drivers not being covered. If such an exclusion does exist it can be challenged as anti consumerism because it negates the rights of the injured third party to recovery. When a specific individual has been designated by manual endorsement, signed by the named insured(s) to not have coverage, states have deemed that the exclusion is not applicable to at least the limit of that state's financial responsiblity law.

alfox

State's MA, carrier's Liberty. But we have state controlled insurance here, so it's probably the State's own provision.

beachnut

Paper cut! ROFL, pat! The plazas going into our town over the river are apparently state territory (?). Being as such, the FHP (not local law-enforcement) sits in there. Lately, they position an officer right behind one of the coin basket machines with a hand-held radar gun, shooting the traffic coming across the bridge towards the plaza. If caught speeding, his co-hort is sitting in his cruiser on the other side more than happy to hand you a violation. They also stand at the booths as well, checking for seatbelt compliance, which is great, but I have a hard time understanding that one. If paying by currency, don't you normally have to unbuckle to get to your wallet? Well, as least male drivers do.

Speaking of bridges, these are notorious for inconsiderate drivers. When I lived in the Tampa area, I found that if I was doing anything short of 90mph+ on the 13 mile-long I-275 bridge across the bay, that I would get plowed. One night I was watching Cops on TV, and the episode was filmed in that locale. They showed a dash-cam clip of a guy flying past a cruiser at 2am, doing 120mph+. On top of that, he was drunk!

robr2

...requires that all licensed persons living in the home either be listed on the policy or you must fill out a form specifically excluding them from the policy assigned to particular automobile.

That way a high risk driver must be listed/unlisted on a policy ensuring that the insurance company either collects higher rates if listed or doesn't pay out if not listed. My SIS specifically has her three <21 YO kids excluded off the grownup cars in order to keep the rates down.

In MA you can't be denied auto insurance as long as you have a valid license - there is something called a high risk driver pool that assigns these drivers to the insurance companies. We must also purchase uninsured driver coverage on auto policies - if the other driver is at fault and uninsured, that covers you.

Then again, the state sets the rates and there are only a few discounts available for good drivers. The one time they tried free market pricing, my dad was paying over $1500/yr for a 75 Vega - that was in 1976.

tazereli

so does that mean if i go from nationwidw insurancee to state farm for example i should pay the same?

verozahl

I'm really really sorry, guys. I live in Michigan, where roads are free and fast. Do continue your complaining, though... which literary works do you keep in your cars for reading while you waiting at toll plazas?

pat84

I was in Michigan once. It was closed.

alfox

Yes, from any one carrier to any other (who do business in this state) the rates for the same coverages will be identical. They're set by the state. Some insurers offer discounts, but only discounts that have been approved by the Insurance Commission. For example, several offer a discount on collision and property damage for a safe driving record, varying from 2% to 9%. Some offer group discounts, etc. Overall, the only reason to change insurers is for service considerations.

Our insurance is high, but nothing like in some states.

kinley

alfox

they essentially outlawed competition among insurers.

robr2

If you move between insurers the rates are the same. As alfox noted abover, rates are set by the state and are based on the number of points you have (based on driving record). Any discounts you can get have to be approved by the state and are usually reserved for the best drivers and any affinity group you may be a member of.

Every year the insurance industry proposes it's rates to the state typically by asking for a 15-20% increase. That state says no - we'll let you have 6%. The insurers hem and haw and complain and then say "oh well, we'll take it". The state actually reduced rates a couple of times.

A few years ago, quite a few companies stopped writing car policies in MA because they claimed they were losing money but they were forced to stop writing all insurance. MA requires that if they wast to sell life, etc and they offer auto in other states, they must offer auto here in MA. As for making money, one company has something like 30% of the MA market and seems to be doing well.

mlm4

There's no such thing as a "free" road, unless you have somehow managed to avoid paying taxes. And from what I've seen in Michigan, the roads are not in such good condition. The toll roads may not be cheap, but they are generally better maintained than the so-called "free" roads. I hate tolls, but I think it is fair to pay for something I use. Whether or not the amount I pay is reasonable, that can be argued.

It's all about electronic toll collection. Big Brother may be watching, but at least I don't have to wait in line to give someone my money.

hammersley

"The other line always moves faster."

Cheers!
Paul

verozahl

... geez, I hate shopping on Saturday afternoons.

However, I have answered the Eternal Question -
are Kmart shopping carts RWD or FWD? It seems the
engine is in the rear while the power is applied
to the rear wheels too. The weight distribution, then,
makes no sense for these sports cars.

And as I left Kmart, I cut some guy in a Saturn off in order
to race a guy in a red Mazda RX-7!
What's my Saturday Driving Score? Add the points up... I got
109 (55 points for beating the Saturn) by my estimate.

thor8

There is a two lane road between two major roads, because of the geography of the area this is one of the few roads that conect the two, traffic is extremely heavy, there is a bridge along the way, not too long, about 80ft, there are wide and flat shoulder areas before and after the little bridge, rigth in the middle there is moron changing his front flat tire, he could have gone another 30 ft and get to this big and wide shoulder area, another 60 ft a big car wash, no he had to change his tire rigth there and then and by the look of things he was not to handy with things, the traffic was backed up horredously both ways, it was a free for all, rigth behind the car was a police car with the ligths on giving him rear security, a police woman siting inside the car just gawking around, nobody directing the traffic, seems like it took me forever for my turn to cross the bridge, when I got next to her car I was irritated for what was going on, I told her she should have made him get out the bridge to change his tire or fine him or someone should be directing the traffic, she told me to pull over and gave me a ticket for not having my seat belt on.

ludergirl

4 way stop. I'm on the left, some other guy in an SUV is on my right, but I reach the sign first, so I start to go. I've almost reached the middle of the intersection when the dude starts pulling out in front of me and I sort of stop, because I think he'll t-bone me. Then he stops inches away from me and honks and gives me this flustered hand gesture like I'm a psycho driver. Just because I see you coming and you're on the right, but you arrive there like, 5 minutes later, doesn't mean you get to go first!

There's a residential street 30mph zone in my city that doubles as sort of a short cut (main route) for a lot of people. There's a fair amount of traffic that goes through there. Couple days ago there was this huge line of little kids and their parents on bikes riding along on the sidewalk, for blocks and blocks and blocks. Some sort of big event, I guess. But then as I keep driving along I pass numerous parents in their CARS with flashers on driving in the shoulder following their little kids. Half of these vehicles I'd pass would be so busy watching their kid riding his bike that they wouldn't be watching where they were driving and slowly merging out of the shoulder and into the main road going 35mph at 5mph. I guess one of these crazy parents had been so engrossed in watching their kid ride their bike along the sidewalk while driving, that she failed to realize there was a 4 way stop sign coming up and just went straight through, and then when she finally realized what she had been doing she was in the middle of the intersection, and then just STOPPED in the middle of the intersection, while other cars are waiting from all directions to cross through. Then, instead of just moving forward through the intersection to unblock to way (the logical solution), she takes an extra 5 minutes and BACKS UP. Oooookay...

ludergirl

Sounds like the officer decided to get on a power trip once you were questioning what she was doing. You were right she should have been doing something else about it but you should have had your seatbelt on... and you can't really contest anything because she caught you red-handed and there's really no excuse there. That is pretty stupid though, sounds like you were going like 5mph anyway, what did it matter? but the law is the law I guess...

eharri3

I see more and more lately and it makes me wanna buy one of those gadgets that can jam them.

People driving in the far left lane at 55 mph talking on the phone. People making unsignaled lane changes without looking while talking on the phone. Just the other day, some dimwitt calmly cruising the wrong way down a one way street came around a bend and almost hit me head on while...you guessed it... talking on the phone.

Sometimes I wish i could instantly get their numbers and get them and the person on the other end on three way and say "Im terribly sorry to interrupt your conversation, but the driver of the car has caused several near accidents while talking to you and if he doesn't get off right now and wake up to the fact that he is not all by himself on the road he will soon find himself parked on his roof in a ditch wondering how that green Ford pickup seemed to appear out of nowhere and gently nudge him off the asphalt before he was even able to take a long enough break from your conversation to realize what was happening."

kinley

as it doesn't matter who got to the intersection first. It's not a take turn situation. The vehicle on the right does not automatically have the right of way, but you are obligated to grant him the right of way. (In the case of a crash, the judge can't care about time, as to who got there first.)

oldharry

The driver who stops first has the right of way. It is in cases of stopping at the same time (less than a second is the same time for practical purposes). If you come here to Lee County Illinois, and try to force right of way on a driver that stopped first to your left, I will personally ticket you if I am working. (I am a reserve deputy sheriff.) It will only cost you $75 if there is no collision involved.

Harry

im_brentwood

This is rich.

Kinley is telling other people not only how to drive, but also about the rules of the road?

That is a good one.

Bill

verozahl

If it's close in time (within a couple seconds of each other or less), yield to the right and get on with your life (most drivers understand this). If it's been five seconds or more, the right-of-way goes to the car who entered the intersection five seconds earlier, no question. Plenty of idiot drivers out there who take every rule of the road they like, and those they don't like.

pjyoung

Now I can cut my commute time in half by utilizing the "I'm on your right" rule to reduce my time spent at 4 way stops. Thanks.

eharri3

I never cease to be amazed by the endless opportunities we have here to pick your brain and learn from your decades of tried and true driving the techniques guaranteed to get us from point A to point B while enraging and irritating the maximum number of other drivers possible. Keep up the good work.

Better yet, come to Philly and see how far you get with your 'yield to the right' rule before some uninsured dead beat decides to sacrifice his 200 dollar disposable car of the week to teach you the rules of the road the hard way. Actually you'd fit right in here. We dont have a 'yield to the right' rule in Philly so much as what's known as the "Im too busy keeping my seat reclined at a 160 degree angle with one wrist loosely draped across the wheel in a gangsta lean pose while talking on my cell phone and playing my stereo at a loud enough decibal level to accalerate continental drift so I dont really have any powers of concentration left to tap my brake pedal and yield to you which means Im just gonna ignore this stop sign and cruise right on through like there's nobody else on the road but me" rule.

verozahl

You can use your rules, kinley, in your house with your family... kitchen intersection, yield to the right always.

On the roads, though, the patriarchy takes back seat to Eric Cartman & Co. "Respect my Authoritah!"

For your sake, do consider watching other drivers. Remember, you are, really, not the only person on the road. (POP! CRACKLE!) [Need new brain fuses? Aisle 7.]

spudgal

Driving home from work one lunchtime last week; taking the quieter rural route over the freeway. At a 4-way, some bozo in an eldery VW blasts past me. "Did he even stop?" I thinks. Carry on as quickly as I can (lots of cops around that area sometimes); see bozo blast through 4-way up ahead. Watch bozo driving like maniac trying to get around traffic on 2-lane residential street with school zone. Thinks "What an anus!"

10 minutes later, a few blocks away, guess who's upside down on a golf course! Driver (ywm) climbing out, sadly looked unhurt. Couldn't stop as I was running late. Someone else had stopped so cops were almost certainly on the way. I still wish I'd had time to stop and talk to the cops, but hubby advised me that the driver may have been DUI and might have taken a swing at me or worse.

Still, at least he got his just desserts.

milt721

...and everyone's phone number should be the same as the licence plate number. It just might make people less apt to be rude in traffic...