Rear ending is usually caused by inattention, which is indeed the fault of the driver
But if the driver struck decides he suddenly has a right to go 20mph slower than everything else on the road, then he too is to blame. Legalities have nothing to do with this, especially seeing as legalities often leave out personal responsibility, not to mention moral or ethical issues.
The fact of the matter is that by law one CAN go 20 mph slower than the speed limit. So that I am clear in a 65 mph speed limit zone, one CAN go 45 mph. 65-45=20. Also the speed limit for towing is 55 mph. As anyone has probably observed not too many follow that. However if one is going 35 mpg he can not by law be cited. So since the big rig truck limit is ALSO 55 mph (again not many follow this) and can be subjected to gravity, say pulling a triple trailer up a very long steep grade at high altitude etc, reality does not support your opinion. Most folks probably have observed (such as I) fully loaded tractor trailers going under 35 mph. In fact this is more normal than abnormal.
I realize this 20 mph differential gig is your personal opinion, but the law, reality and physics DOESN'T support your opinion in the real world.
Also again if you have been to Europe trucks are bound by law to go far slower, such as 55 mph. If your personal opinion is reality then 155 mph plus travel is undo able. BUT as you know those speed differentials coexist side by side and in fact the safety rate is pretty close to the rate in the USA which is historically the safest that it has ever been according to the NHTSA statistics.
Your driving experience needs to be enhanced by your being at the wheel of an old VW Westfalia loaded with people and camping gear climbing a steep hill on a two lane road followed by a loaded logging truck honking his horn.
Spare me the 'by law' stuff, laws have little to do with what is right - traffic laws often have more to do with revenue than anything else. This discussion isn't about laws created by overpaid cronies with questionable credentials - it is about what is right.
There is no logical way to defend anyone going 35-45 in a 65 under perfect conditions. No way. You may whine about the law, but you are still wrong. Think about it.
Merge onto the highway at a speed comparable to the traffic in your chosen lane. If this is too much for you, keep to the side roads, as sooner or late you're going to be rammed off the highway. And you'll deserve it.
"However if one is going 35 mpg he can not by law be cited"
I dare you to go out on a local 60-70 zone and go 35. I want to see what happens.
Not true, indeed.
Sure, I've been to Europe...the land where slow drivers keep right. A dose of that responsibility needs to be injected in drivers here.
I would agree that traffic speed enforcement has more to do with revenue. What is right? To my mind: no speed limits.
Going 45 in a 60-70 zone which normally supports 90 mph is an absolute non-event. I did it for app 100 miles with a Z06 Corvette when breaking in new tires. Even had 3/5 highway patrol in predatory mode pass me, not even a glance.
There is really no incentive to keep right. It is almost a defacto speed limiter.
No speed limits, but with infractions issued for driving inapprporiately for conditions? If a quantifiable scale could be developed...yes, that's not a bad idea. So going 100 in the rain when traffic is going 50 would be a ticket, just as going 40 on a sunny Sunday when traffic is going 80 would be a ticket.
Maybe the roads in my backyard are different. Although they usually flow OK, there is still always a bit of traffic, and going 40 in a 60 is just a plain hazard. When EVERY vehicle is passing you - buses, semis, unicycles, speedwalkers, etc....you're doing something wrong.
And I guess you don't have to keep right...I don't mind passing on the right :shades:
However if one is going 35 mpg he can not by law be cited.
Not sure about where you are but here in Illinois Interstate highways have a minimum speed of 45 MPH, if you are going less than that you can get cited. that is unless circumstances warrant a slower speed (i.e. weather, heavy rush hour traffic and the such).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Ok its a small winding two lane road and I come up on a line of cars behind a very slow moving truck with its left turn signal on. Unfortunately there was no place to turn left. After about a minute of holding up traffic this trucker pulled off to the side of the road only to immediately get right back on the road and proceed at a very slow rate for the next half mile before actually finding the gas pedal.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
This happens a lot, and it happened twice on the way home today:
I'll be driving at the same speed of some of the faster drivers on a freeway, and then I come along to someone going relatively slowly. I look for an opening to pass, maybe get alongside the car I want to pass... and then it zooms off faster than I would've gone. Often they slow down once I'm out of sight and the whole thing repeats.
Maybe they feel they can't let anyone show them up by going faster than them? I don't know.
It's always the speeder's fault. If you are going too fast then you are breaking the law. The speed limit is posted. End of story. If you rear-end someone then you were going too fast for the conditions. It's your fault.
I'm selfish for obeying the law? You are breaking the law. It's always your fault. No matter how fast everyone else is going, a cop can pick you out of a group of cars and give you a ticket. I've seen it done before. So I drive the speed limit. It's posted. It's no mystery. Your selfish, wasteful, dangeruosly high-speed driving will kill you. How often do you see a lone car crashing because of high speed? Okay...how often do you see a single-car accident and the report says,"Cause of the crash is slow speed"? Never. Technically, anyone who drives over the speed limit is speeding. I'm not driving too slow, you're driving too fast. With your logic trailer parks would be responsible for hurricanes (I love that quote).
Laws aren't right simply because they exist. Sorry, that is backwards and irresponsible thinking. Preach to someone who cares. I don't dance to the right.
Oh yeah, and I've never even had a parking ticket. Speeding isn't evil in and of itself, its all about when and where you do it. If you don't like it, call the cops - see what it gets you. It's really all you can do. Just hope and pray someone doesn't run your Civic off the road and changes your life. Obstructionistic selfish slow driving can land you in a world of hurt just as easily as selfish fast driving.
Don't give me cr-p about people doing 35 miles an hour in a 65 zone. I'm talking people doing 65 in a 65 zone and the morons around him doing 75 to 80 miles an hour and then hitting him and saying it's his fault. That's a realistic scenario and it happens often. I was almost honked off the road in Indianapolis because I was doing 45 miles an hour...in a construction zone with a 45 mile an hour speed limit. Screw them I hope they hit me because I'd laugh at them as they get their ticket (plus a premium for speeding in a work zone). Very rarely do I see anyone doing more than 2 or 3 miles an hour under the speed limit. I see many people doing 10-20 miles an hour over the limit all the time. They are the danger...they are at fault. They're breaking the law. Speed limits are posted. End of story. You can't read and follow simple instructions then you shouldn't be driving.
I'll give you all I please. Umm, you should learn how to read. The initial discussion was about someone going 45 when the flow was 65. Literacy will take you places.
65 in a 65 is just fine, there's usually a lane going the speed limit, if not a little under. You might have to keep right - that's your responsibility, take it for once.
If you can't' think for yourself, then you shouldn't be driving, and hopefully someone will remove you from the road with such force that you'll never return. Nobody will mourn, one less piece of vehicular cholesterol
"There is no logical way to defend anyone going 35-45 in a 65 under perfect conditions. No way. You may whine about the law, but you are still wrong. Think about it." #6031 of 6050 Re: NOT True again. [ruking1] by fintail Sep 22, 2005 (9:03 pm)
Getting REAL repetitive and starting to edge towards personal on the speed differential thing. Let's get back to reporting on some of the lunatics we're figuratively (I hope) running into out there.
I don't know if this counts as inconsiderate, but while visiting a friend at his place of business, we heard the locked up wheels followed by the dull thud as one of the younger set of male drivers ran into the back of another of the same species. They pulled the cars off onto a side street, got out of their cars, and began an examination. Both car dinged up some, not too extenisive, lots of plastic and glass and crumpled sheet metal. They each pulled off a few pieces of car that were hanging off, sort of looked at each other and apparently came to some mutual understanding that it was a wash. The guy who took the rear end shot opened his trunk, but then it wouldn't close. So he wound up jumping up in the air and landing on it to get it to latch :P
I get the feeling that they both weighed the increased insurance premiums vs what it might cost them to fix the body work and they both saw the light about the same time. That's assuming that both had insurance to begin with!
So tell me...how do I count how many speeders are behind me while I'm driving and watching ahead (like I'm supposed to)? Speeders cause accidents. Arrest the five people behind you who are probably breaking the speed limit.
Not true. Based on driver's ed in Indiana in 1982, a bicyclist has the same rights and priveledges as any other vehicle...however, since he/she is riding slower than the speed limit, he is considered an obstruction and must move to the right. So that goes for cars too. I can tell you many times I was on my bicycle and had to pass slow-pokes in automobiles because they were driving below the speed limit. At the same time, if I'm pedaling 30 miles an hour in a 25 mph zone, I take the road. I'm no longer an obstruction.
I think it's cool there was a fender bender without a fistfight.
I bet the no insurance thing is realistic, too. I think as time goes on, more and more people will forego insurance to use the money for other necessities...such as gas.
Yep, that's what I said. No way to defend going 35-45 in a 65 under ideal conditions, because under ideal conditions there will not be a lane going 35-45 on such a road. What's your beef with that?
Reporting lunatics is by nature, an explosive subject. One person's lunatic is another person's normal driver (just read our posts!). Not signaling is a pet peeve of mine. It's dangerous not to signal your intentions, and it's very simple to do. There are always blind spots somewhere. I like to go into intersections head-to-head with a car that looks like it's going to turn but won't be considerate enough to signal. I pretend I think they're going straight. On rare occaisions they'll put on their signals, and, on rare occasions I'll see a car I'm almost certain is going to turn but doesn't. So it's dangerous to not signal for yourself and others. It's also inconsiderate when you are trying to make a left-turn and all the oncoming traffic is turning right but won't signal. So you wait and wait, thinking they are going straight and they all turn. I have this problem near my house. It's university traffic. Let's see...lunatics...uhhh...people who stay on the left lane on a dual lane road, knowing they need to cross into my lane and take a right exit, but wait until the last second and then cut me off just to gain that extra 20 feet. That bothers me. People who constantly change lanes to gain a few feet and almost always end up within 20 feet of where I am by the time we get to our destination. This happened a lot around Langley AFB on my way to work. People who park in fire lanes. Most of these people are overweight and could use a 200 foot walk from a parking lot. That's just rude not parking like everyone else. There are exceptions, of course, for the elderly or in the case a very bad rain, but most of the time it's sunny and the people are young. I don't like tailgaters. Despite what you may have read from me here, I do sometimes get caught behind slower drivers. As long as I'm not in a hurry I don't see any reason to speed, but sometimes you need to get there fast (I doubt most of the speeders you see on the road are late!). Even then, I don't tailgate. It's just rude. I was on the Autobahn in Germany where the norm was 100 miles an hour. We had someone in the fast lane doing 70. We all politely gave him time to pull into the right lane...no honking or dangerous driving...why can't Americans be this polite? Driving shouldn't be a battle. I blame a lot of it on the cops for not enforcing and frequently breaking the very laws they are sworn to uphold. If cops would enforce the speed limits then the norm would be a more leisurely pace and the speeders would be the acception, not the rule. But the cops are part of the problem and even if you go with the flow, a cop can still ticket you for speeding. I know because it happened to me once (my only ticket ever...but I was lucky). It was my fault...I was doing 83 in a 70 zone (the cop only had me at 80). I was in a hurry...I had to drive 780 miles to visit my mother for her cancer operation and I got out late because I was trying to patch up things with my girlfriend. But ultimately, it was my bad decision that got me the ticket. I just wish cops were consistent. The first thing I said when the cop told me I was doing 80 in a 70 zone was,"They give tickets for that now?" I was surprised.
I agree. I was just saying it wasn't as realistic as people going the speed limit (or very close) and getting run off the road by speeders. Sorry...I get a little hot when I talk about drivers. I took my tranquilizer. Are you Finish? I am a competitive cyclist and wreckless drivers are much more threatening to me than most people. I also try very hard to obey the laws when I ride but, unfortunately the bad habits of drivers is also carried over into cycling. I am always telling cyclists they need to obey traffic laws if they want the respect of drivers. It's an uphill battle.
I'll agree with that. Even a little consideration goes a long way......
In general, perhaps it would be best to remember that it is far easier to assume the condition of another vehicle/driver than know it. Why not give the benefit of the doubt and just go on one's way. After all, there's no sense in looking for stress - it will find you!!!
(even though I'm responding to fintail's post, I am not directing this at anyone in particular - just throwing it out there.)
Bob: How do you manage to stumble across so many "interesting" situations?! :surprise:
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
"It's just rude." Well, not JUST rude.... also extremely dangerous! I had a motorcyclist decide to pull up within 6 feet of my bumper about a week ago while we were driving 60 mph. It was heavy traffic between stoplights and he was trying to get a jump on my passing another vehicle so he could whip around me. There was a left turning lane (with a red light) just ahead of me and traffic started slowing down rather abruptly in my lane. I let of the gas to slow easily, but the bike kept right on me.... I hit the brakes and dumped about 6 mph off my speed (probably going about 45 at this point afte rthe brake) and I swear that the rider actually touched me bumper for a second he was so close, then he swerved to the driver's side (ditch side) and was driving almost next to me for a few moments before slowing enough to re-enter the lane. He never backed off though. As soon as we cleared that next light and had open road ahead, he whipped around me the moment I had passed the "obstructing" car. :confuse: I guess he thought that he'd better drive like hell since he only had another week or so before the snow flies!
I have the same opinion of turn signal use - it should be accurate! That falls in line with the consideration bit..... no matter how much one lacks or offers consideration, turn signal use is the most basic element on the road.... just use them! :sick:
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
When we had our motorhome (1998 model, V-10 engine, so no power slouch) we routinely towed my Subaru behind us. Despite all that HP & torque, some hills were 40-45mph at best, in 60-70mph zones. I stayed in the right lane when there was one, and used the turnouts when they were provided. Wasn't that hard, really. Some of those slow hill cllimbs actually allowed me to sneak a peek out the side window & enjoy the scenery. (Stevens Pass, WA is gorgeous from a viewpoint other than the windshield!)
On most highways, we were the least of your troubles. Too many other things out there that can hurt you besides a slow roller or two.
Motorcyclists, more often than not around here, are dangerous. About a month ago I had one pull up next to me on a two lane exit ramp. There is a car in front of him and my front bumper is almost lined up with the front bumper of the car in the other lane. All of a sudden I hear is engine rev up and he banks very steeply towards me. I slam on the brakes and jerk right and he just misses me as he passes on the striping between the lanes! Almost got run off the road, literally. :sick:
Just yesterday I'm driving on a 5 lane road (2 lanes in each direction and a center lane) coming up to a red light. Motorcycle in front of me. Speed limit 45. Both in the left lane, with a car stopped at the light. Motorcycle isn't slowing down yet and its about time so I start braking. All of a sudden (even though I'm braking) I'm coming up very fast on him and his brake light isn't even on yet. Finally it comes on and we are about 3 cars worth from the car in front and barely creeping along. Story isn't over yet...Light turns green and the car in front speeds up. Car in the right lane paces the car in the left lane for about 5 seconds and then the car in front of us takes off. Motorcycle speeds up and I do to, eager to get around this jerk. I almost have enough room to go over when all of a sudden, I'm hurtling towards him. You guessed it. He downshifted. For no reason! Nothing in the road obstructing him, no car in front nothing. He paces the car in the next lane for about 5 seconds, pops a wheely and then takes off. Only to slow down and repeat. Finally he takes off at 80+ MPH. On a 45 MPH road. He should be arrested and thrown into jail (reckless driving). :mad: :mad: :mad:
My hope with the motorcycles is that they either 1. Wise up and act responsibly or 2. Not kill anyone else when they finally crash. The nice thing about motorcycles is they don't weigh much and will probably lose in a car/motorcycle accident. I've never had a motorcycle because I get enough close calls from bicycling. Even if I'm a safe rider, I'm the ant running under the elephants. I just hope they can see me!
Driving quite slowly because of traffic, a man in a Solara was waiting to get out of a local gas station so I let him in front of me. No wave or nod of thanks so I thought, 'ok whatever'. A couple of seconds later an empty cigarette packet followed by new cellophane wrapper hits my windscreen, I then see a hand throwing an empty Evian bottle out of the same Solara and clunk onto the side of my hood! I just couldn't believe it! I still can't get over that kind of arrogance and inconsideration. Another time I was about to cross the street at a go-ahead crossing when a brand new Jag, turning round the corner nearly ran over my toes, seriously, his tires were about 2" from my feet. I shouted at the driver who was on his cell phone, just looked at me and carried on driving and talking. Now react how you will, but I had my bike keys in my hand and as he dismissed me, I held my key, pointing out by my side and as he carried on driving waaayyy too close, he basically got keyed...yes, a nice 2 ft long scratch along the rear side of his precious motor. And, yes, it felt good.
Littering bugs the heck out of me too. People tossing cigarettes onto the road. I've seen it in traffic jams and felt like walking up to the car and tossing the cigarette back into the opened window. But I'd probably get sued. Well...I try to be polite. I think the cruise control and automatic transmission help. I keep a steady speed when I can (although it's usually 10 miles an hour slower than everyone else) and try to enjoy my drive. I usually leave the lights on too so they can see me. The attitude is that driving is a right and no one can live without a car. I remember a few years ago, an 80 year-old man accidentally plowed through a sidewalk mall, killing many people. Soon after, many people were saying that people that old shouldn't be allowed to drive. So I checked my World Almanac...the fact is, the 25-34 year age range had the highest accident rate (23% of accidents) and the 65 and older had 8%. It was the second lowest rate. Why wasn't that fact put out? Maybe that's why the outcry suddenly stopped. You can take licenses away from some old elderly people but...not me! It's an attitude more than anything. I think the driving age needs to be raised to 18 anyway. A 16 and 17 year old aren't even considered an adult under the law.
"So tell me...how do I count how many speeders are behind me while I'm driving and watching ahead (like I'm supposed to)? Speeders cause accidents. Arrest the five people behind you who are probably breaking the speed limit."
Dude, I'm just saying what the CA driver's handbook says.
It doesn't make any sense. I agree there are some people who drive way below the speed limit to the point of obstructing traffic. I think that law was made for them...probably designed for farm machinery. I'm almost sure it applies to that. Someone doing 65 down an interstate with five people piled up behind him would have a hard time monitoring the rear of his vehicle.
I actually once saw someome do that and it irritated the heck out of me. I hate litterbugs. I followed from a distance and saw where they lived. I went there the next evening with my dog's refuse and promptly left it on their front porch with a note. I doubt they learned a lesson, but it sure made me feel better.
Dude, I'm just saying what the CA driver's handbook says.
I think you ought to check the book again. It's gotta apply to drivers doing well under the speed limit on 2-lane roads where there's no passing zones (or oncoming traffic is so heavy that passing isn't possible). In that case, it would make sense -- you have to pull over to let the following traffic go by.
For multilane roads, especially interstates, Johnny Law surely isn't going to cite you for driving 65 mph (or is 70 allowed in CA?) in the far right lane, no matter how many cars are behind you.
Then again, I live in VA, so what do I know about CA! (But my son just moved there.)
Based on driver's ed in Indiana in 1982, a bicyclist has the same rights and priveledges as any other vehicle...
Next door in Illinois a bicyclist does not always have the same rights and privileges. On limited access highway in Illinois there are minimum speeds and if a vehicle cannot maintain those speeds it cannot be on those roads. Hence a bicyclist cannot be on an interstate highway.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Cigarette tossing is a horrible thing. I often will pick up my phone when I see a cig tosser, and act like I am reporting them to some imaginary line - pointing at their car or plate as I am talking. More than one of these morons has noticed me doing so. If it scares them just a little...
Today I got behind a newer C class wagon on a one lane in each direction divided (by about a block wide swath of heavy forest) road. Posted at 40...this guy would maybe hit 30 on a good stretch. He would also keep at least a 50 yard following distance from the car in front of him, and it was growing fast. There were maybe a dozen cars behind him when the road finally widened. Amazing. I suspect he didn't even look back.
Remember how easy it was to renew your driver's license?
However, if you want to ride a motorcycle ,that requires a little more effort, such as passing a proficiency test. And that is good.
If you desire to be a truck driver of an 18-wheeler with a 53-foot-long box behind you, additional testing and passing a driving test is required. And that is good.
But, if you want to drive a 45-foot rig, towing an additional 20 feet of trailered SUV and the rig is just under nine feet wide, weighing 54,500 pounds GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), powered by a 515 horsepower diesel engine with the same license you use to drive your little four-cylinder import, you can do it. And that is not good, but the law allows it.
What to do? Be aware of that motorhome and especially its geriatric driver with thick pop-bottle glasses, oxygen tank, and double hearing aids, because he has the privilege, through licensing, to drive that behemoth right next to you on the highway, and he has not been required by the state to be qualified, other than his little car driver's license.
I am always telling cyclists they need to obey traffic laws if they want the respect of drivers.
My state's rules of the road say that bicyclists have same rights and responsibilities as other roadway users and also that they are prohibited from limited access highways. I guess it may be a stretch, but since they do use public roads, perhaps they can be criticized on this board for being an "inconsiderate motorist"?
In our rural area, it is very common to see bicyclists (sometimes in large groups, perhaps clubs) riding on our roads on weekends. Vast majority are respectful of motorized traffic and ride in single file. Some times not and they drive side by side.
Those that drive on flat roads with lots of visibility for them and approaching/following motorists and are single file are sensible and responsible. Then, there are those who choose to drive their bikes on 2-lane county roads 55 MPH speed limits that are mostly double-yellow and twisty and hilly. These folks must truly have a death wish. If you come up behind them in your vehicle, you must slow to their speed, wait until no apparent traffic coming from opposing direction and then gingerly slightly cross over the double yellow lines to pass them. Have to cross over double-yellow because of width of roads out here and state's rules of the road that say that motorists have to give at least 3 feet of clearance to pass bicyclist.
I wonder how strict of an interpretation of not crossing double-yellow would be applied by police. Have never asked an officer, but, am I obligated to follow a bicycle(s) on a stretch of narrow 2-lane double yellow until I get to a legal passing zone? In my area, we have some stretches of double yellow that are 1.5 miles long. Have not tested this with bicyclist, but maybe next time I will do this either until I get to a legal passing zone or the bicyclist(s) pulls over on the shoulder and stops to let me pass.
I have to take issue with this. After a summer of RVing I have to say that motorhome drivers as well as drivers pulling travel trailers and 5th wheels have to be some of the safest drivers I've seen. We hauled over 3000 miles this summer and stayed in several campgrounds, both in Alaska and Canada, I DID NOT one time see a driver who I thought shouldn't be driving his motorhome (or towing his TT or 5ver).
Its amazing to watch them park one of those things in the campground, that takes excellent driving skills and attention to detail. My husband can back our 26' trailer into anywhere, but not me (although I'm an excellent driver and do tow the trailer), I fall apart when it comes to backing.
So, before you judge, have all the facts............the drivers of those motorhomes are plenty in control........they don't want to hit you nor do they want to wreck their $250k+ rig.
You won't see a MH flying down the road weaving in and out of traffic anyway. Some of them look a little old to be driving such rigs with absolutely no extra credentials, though. If driving a cycle or truck requires something special, so should a motorhome.
I had a couple of winners this morning. First was a woman in a CRV who was eating pretty furiously while driving, and almost rear ended me. I actually braced myself to be hit, but she stopped in time. These little SUVs are too often driven in this manner by careless people I will refrain from profiling more. Then I was driving on I90, and was in my exit only lane preparing to leave the road. A clueless looking gent in a prev gen Corolla cuts me off to get into the lane, then proceeds to go 30 in a 40 once we are off the highway. When the road finally widens and I get around him, he gives me the most offended look I have ever seen. I simply draw a line across my throat, and he looked dead-on straight from there on. When these people become the supposed victims of road ragers through intentional crashes or bullets, I can't feel sorry for them.
Comments
But if the driver struck decides he suddenly has a right to go 20mph slower than everything else on the road, then he too is to blame. Legalities have nothing to do with this, especially seeing as legalities often leave out personal responsibility, not to mention moral or ethical issues.
I realize this 20 mph differential gig is your personal opinion, but the law, reality and physics DOESN'T support your opinion in the real world.
Also again if you have been to Europe trucks are bound by law to go far slower, such as 55 mph. If your personal opinion is reality then 155 mph plus travel is undo able. BUT as you know those speed differentials coexist side by side and in fact the safety rate is pretty close to the rate in the USA which is historically the safest that it has ever been according to the NHTSA statistics.
That is true, there are some roads that say minimum speed xx, speed limit yy. You can go xx, you just can't do it in the left lane.
There is no logical way to defend anyone going 35-45 in a 65 under perfect conditions. No way. You may whine about the law, but you are still wrong. Think about it.
Merge onto the highway at a speed comparable to the traffic in your chosen lane. If this is too much for you, keep to the side roads, as sooner or late you're going to be rammed off the highway. And you'll deserve it.
"However if one is going 35 mpg he can not by law be cited"
I dare you to go out on a local 60-70 zone and go 35. I want to see what happens.
Not true, indeed.
Sure, I've been to Europe...the land where slow drivers keep right. A dose of that responsibility needs to be injected in drivers here.
Yes, this means it's sometimes impossible to drive legally.
More importantly, it increases and in some cases causes congestion.
Much more importantly, it can result in accidents.
I would agree that traffic speed enforcement has more to do with revenue. What is right? To my mind: no speed limits.
Going 45 in a 60-70 zone which normally supports 90 mph is an absolute non-event. I did it for app 100 miles with a Z06 Corvette when breaking in new tires. Even had 3/5 highway patrol in predatory mode pass me, not even a glance.
There is really no incentive to keep right. It is almost a defacto speed limiter.
No speed limits, but with infractions issued for driving inapprporiately for conditions? If a quantifiable scale could be developed...yes, that's not a bad idea. So going 100 in the rain when traffic is going 50 would be a ticket, just as going 40 on a sunny Sunday when traffic is going 80 would be a ticket.
Maybe the roads in my backyard are different. Although they usually flow OK, there is still always a bit of traffic, and going 40 in a 60 is just a plain hazard. When EVERY vehicle is passing you - buses, semis, unicycles, speedwalkers, etc....you're doing something wrong.
And I guess you don't have to keep right...I don't mind passing on the right :shades:
Not sure about where you are but here in Illinois Interstate highways have a minimum speed of 45 MPH, if you are going less than that you can get cited. that is unless circumstances warrant a slower speed (i.e. weather, heavy rush hour traffic and the such).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
How does the above statement apply to the RCMP just North of Horseshoe Bay?
I'll be driving at the same speed of some of the faster drivers on a freeway, and then I come along to someone going relatively slowly. I look for an opening to pass, maybe get alongside the car I want to pass... and then it zooms off faster than I would've gone. Often they slow down once I'm out of sight and the whole thing repeats.
Maybe they feel they can't let anyone show them up by going faster than them? I don't know.
I got used to passing on the right a long long long time ago.
Technically, anyone who drives over the speed limit is speeding. I'm not driving too slow, you're driving too fast. With your logic trailer parks would be responsible for hurricanes (I love that quote).
Oh yeah, and I've never even had a parking ticket. Speeding isn't evil in and of itself, its all about when and where you do it. If you don't like it, call the cops - see what it gets you. It's really all you can do. Just hope and pray someone doesn't run your Civic off the road and changes your life. Obstructionistic selfish slow driving can land you in a world of hurt just as easily as selfish fast driving.
Actuall it is. I heard a statistic from a reliable statistics factory that 59% of the car crashes were the result of speeding.
65 in a 65 is just fine, there's usually a lane going the speed limit, if not a little under. You might have to keep right - that's your responsibility, take it for once.
If you can't' think for yourself, then you shouldn't be driving, and hopefully someone will remove you from the road with such force that you'll never return. Nobody will mourn, one less piece of vehicular cholesterol
#6031 of 6050 Re: NOT True again. [ruking1] by fintail Sep 22, 2005 (9:03 pm)
you wrote it...
I don't know if this counts as inconsiderate, but while visiting a friend at his place of business, we heard the locked up wheels followed by the dull thud as one of the younger set of male drivers ran into the back of another of the same species. They pulled the cars off onto a side street, got out of their cars, and began an examination. Both car dinged up some, not too extenisive, lots of plastic and glass and crumpled sheet metal. They each pulled off a few pieces of car that were hanging off, sort of looked at each other and apparently came to some mutual understanding that it was a wash. The guy who took the rear end shot opened his trunk, but then it wouldn't close. So he wound up jumping up in the air and landing on it to get it to latch :P
I get the feeling that they both weighed the increased insurance premiums vs what it might cost them to fix the body work and they both saw the light about the same time. That's assuming that both had insurance to begin with!
Based on driver's ed in Indiana in 1982, a bicyclist has the same rights and priveledges as any other vehicle...however, since he/she is riding slower than the speed limit, he is considered an obstruction and must move to the right. So that goes for cars too. I can tell you many times I was on my bicycle and had to pass slow-pokes in automobiles because they were driving below the speed limit.
At the same time, if I'm pedaling 30 miles an hour in a 25 mph zone, I take the road. I'm no longer an obstruction.
Selfish people cause accidents, speeders or not.
I bet the no insurance thing is realistic, too. I think as time goes on, more and more people will forego insurance to use the money for other necessities...such as gas.
Not signaling is a pet peeve of mine. It's dangerous not to signal your intentions, and it's very simple to do. There are always blind spots somewhere.
I like to go into intersections head-to-head with a car that looks like it's going to turn but won't be considerate enough to signal. I pretend I think they're going straight. On rare occaisions they'll put on their signals, and, on rare occasions I'll see a car I'm almost certain is going to turn but doesn't. So it's dangerous to not signal for yourself and others. It's also inconsiderate when you are trying to make a left-turn and all the oncoming traffic is turning right but won't signal. So you wait and wait, thinking they are going straight and they all turn. I have this problem near my house. It's university traffic.
Let's see...lunatics...uhhh...people who stay on the left lane on a dual lane road, knowing they need to cross into my lane and take a right exit, but wait until the last second and then cut me off just to gain that extra 20 feet. That bothers me. People who constantly change lanes to gain a few feet and almost always end up within 20 feet of where I am by the time we get to our destination. This happened a lot around Langley AFB on my way to work.
People who park in fire lanes. Most of these people are overweight and could use a 200 foot walk from a parking lot. That's just rude not parking like everyone else. There are exceptions, of course, for the elderly or in the case a very bad rain, but most of the time it's sunny and the people are young.
I don't like tailgaters. Despite what you may have read from me here, I do sometimes get caught behind slower drivers. As long as I'm not in a hurry I don't see any reason to speed, but sometimes you need to get there fast (I doubt most of the speeders you see on the road are late!). Even then, I don't tailgate. It's just rude. I was on the Autobahn in Germany where the norm was 100 miles an hour. We had someone in the fast lane doing 70. We all politely gave him time to pull into the right lane...no honking or dangerous driving...why can't Americans be this polite?
Driving shouldn't be a battle. I blame a lot of it on the cops for not enforcing and frequently breaking the very laws they are sworn to uphold. If cops would enforce the speed limits then the norm would be a more leisurely pace and the speeders would be the acception, not the rule. But the cops are part of the problem and even if you go with the flow, a cop can still ticket you for speeding. I know because it happened to me once (my only ticket ever...but I was lucky). It was my fault...I was doing 83 in a 70 zone (the cop only had me at 80). I was in a hurry...I had to drive 780 miles to visit my mother for her cancer operation and I got out late because I was trying to patch up things with my girlfriend. But ultimately, it was my bad decision that got me the ticket. I just wish cops were consistent. The first thing I said when the cop told me I was doing 80 in a 70 zone was,"They give tickets for that now?" I was surprised.
I was just saying it wasn't as realistic as people going the speed limit (or very close) and getting run off the road by speeders.
Sorry...I get a little hot when I talk about drivers. I took my tranquilizer. Are you Finish?
I am a competitive cyclist and wreckless drivers are much more threatening to me than most people. I also try very hard to obey the laws when I ride but, unfortunately the bad habits of drivers is also carried over into cycling. I am always telling cyclists they need to obey traffic laws if they want the respect of drivers. It's an uphill battle.
I'll agree with that. Even a little consideration goes a long way......
In general, perhaps it would be best to remember that it is far easier to assume the condition of another vehicle/driver than know it. Why not give the benefit of the doubt and just go on one's way. After all, there's no sense in looking for stress - it will find you!!!
(even though I'm responding to fintail's post, I am not directing this at anyone in particular - just throwing it out there.)
Bob: How do you manage to stumble across so many "interesting" situations?! :surprise:
I have the same opinion of turn signal use - it should be accurate! That falls in line with the consideration bit..... no matter how much one lacks or offers consideration, turn signal use is the most basic element on the road.... just use them! :sick:
We agree.
Notice I've stayed out of the fray this time! LOL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When we had our motorhome (1998 model, V-10 engine, so no power slouch) we routinely towed my Subaru behind us. Despite all that HP & torque, some hills were 40-45mph at best, in 60-70mph zones. I stayed in the right lane when there was one, and used the turnouts when they were provided. Wasn't that hard, really. Some of those slow hill cllimbs actually allowed me to sneak a peek out the side window & enjoy the scenery. (Stevens Pass, WA is gorgeous from a viewpoint other than the windshield!)
On most highways, we were the least of your troubles. Too many other things out there that can hurt you besides a slow roller or two.
Cheers!
Paul
Just yesterday I'm driving on a 5 lane road (2 lanes in each direction and a center lane) coming up to a red light. Motorcycle in front of me. Speed limit 45. Both in the left lane, with a car stopped at the light. Motorcycle isn't slowing down yet and its about time so I start braking. All of a sudden (even though I'm braking) I'm coming up very fast on him and his brake light isn't even on yet. Finally it comes on and we are about 3 cars worth from the car in front and barely creeping along. Story isn't over yet...Light turns green and the car in front speeds up. Car in the right lane paces the car in the left lane for about 5 seconds and then the car in front of us takes off. Motorcycle speeds up and I do to, eager to get around this jerk. I almost have enough room to go over when all of a sudden, I'm hurtling towards him. You guessed it. He downshifted. For no reason! Nothing in the road obstructing him, no car in front nothing. He paces the car in the next lane for about 5 seconds, pops a wheely and then takes off. Only to slow down and repeat. Finally he takes off at 80+ MPH. On a 45 MPH road. He should be arrested and thrown into jail (reckless driving). :mad: :mad: :mad:
Another time I was about to cross the street at a go-ahead crossing when a brand new Jag, turning round the corner nearly ran over my toes, seriously, his tires were about 2" from my feet. I shouted at the driver who was on his cell phone, just looked at me and carried on driving and talking. Now react how you will, but I had my bike keys in my hand and as he dismissed me, I held my key, pointing out by my side and as he carried on driving waaayyy too close, he basically got keyed...yes, a nice 2 ft long scratch along the rear side of his precious motor. And, yes, it felt good.
The attitude is that driving is a right and no one can live without a car. I remember a few years ago, an 80 year-old man accidentally plowed through a sidewalk mall, killing many people. Soon after, many people were saying that people that old shouldn't be allowed to drive. So I checked my World Almanac...the fact is, the 25-34 year age range had the highest accident rate (23% of accidents) and the 65 and older had 8%. It was the second lowest rate. Why wasn't that fact put out? Maybe that's why the outcry suddenly stopped. You can take licenses away from some old elderly people but...not me! It's an attitude more than anything. I think the driving age needs to be raised to 18 anyway. A 16 and 17 year old aren't even considered an adult under the law.
Dude, I'm just saying what the CA driver's handbook says.
I agree there are some people who drive way below the speed limit to the point of obstructing traffic. I think that law was made for them...probably designed for farm machinery. I'm almost sure it applies to that. Someone doing 65 down an interstate with five people piled up behind him would have a hard time monitoring the rear of his vehicle.
I think you ought to check the book again. It's gotta apply to drivers doing well under the speed limit on 2-lane roads where there's no passing zones (or oncoming traffic is so heavy that passing isn't possible). In that case, it would make sense -- you have to pull over to let the following traffic go by.
For multilane roads, especially interstates, Johnny Law surely isn't going to cite you for driving 65 mph (or is 70 allowed in CA?) in the far right lane, no matter how many cars are behind you.
Then again, I live in VA, so what do I know about CA! (But my son just moved there.)
..
That's too funny!!
Based on driver's ed in Indiana in 1982, a bicyclist has the same rights and priveledges as any other vehicle...
Next door in Illinois a bicyclist does not always have the same rights and privileges. On limited access highway in Illinois there are minimum speeds and if a vehicle cannot maintain those speeds it cannot be on those roads. Hence a bicyclist cannot be on an interstate highway.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Today I got behind a newer C class wagon on a one lane in each direction divided (by about a block wide swath of heavy forest) road. Posted at 40...this guy would maybe hit 30 on a good stretch. He would also keep at least a 50 yard following distance from the car in front of him, and it was growing fast. There were maybe a dozen cars behind him when the road finally widened. Amazing. I suspect he didn't even look back.
However, if you want to ride a motorcycle ,that requires a little more effort, such as passing a proficiency test. And that is good.
If you desire to be a truck driver of an 18-wheeler with a 53-foot-long box behind you, additional testing and passing a driving test is required. And that is good.
But, if you want to drive a 45-foot rig, towing an additional 20 feet of trailered SUV and the rig is just under nine feet wide, weighing 54,500 pounds GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), powered by a 515 horsepower diesel engine with the same license you use to drive your little four-cylinder import, you can do it. And that is not good, but the law allows it.
What to do? Be aware of that motorhome and especially its geriatric driver with thick pop-bottle glasses, oxygen tank, and double hearing aids, because he has the privilege, through licensing, to drive that behemoth right next to you on the highway, and he has not been required by the state to be qualified, other than his little car driver's license.
My state's rules of the road say that bicyclists have same rights and responsibilities as other roadway users and also that they are prohibited from limited access highways. I guess it may be a stretch, but since they do use public roads, perhaps they can be criticized on this board for being an "inconsiderate motorist"?
In our rural area, it is very common to see bicyclists (sometimes in large groups, perhaps clubs) riding on our roads on weekends. Vast majority are respectful of motorized traffic and ride in single file. Some times not and they drive side by side.
Those that drive on flat roads with lots of visibility for them and approaching/following motorists and are single file are sensible and responsible. Then, there are those who choose to drive their bikes on 2-lane county roads 55 MPH speed limits that are mostly double-yellow and twisty and hilly. These folks must truly have a death wish. If you come up behind them in your vehicle, you must slow to their speed, wait until no apparent traffic coming from opposing direction and then gingerly slightly cross over the double yellow lines to pass them. Have to cross over double-yellow because of width of roads out here and state's rules of the road that say that motorists have to give at least 3 feet of clearance to pass bicyclist.
I wonder how strict of an interpretation of not crossing double-yellow would be applied by police. Have never asked an officer, but, am I obligated to follow a bicycle(s) on a stretch of narrow 2-lane double yellow until I get to a legal passing zone? In my area, we have some stretches of double yellow that are 1.5 miles long. Have not tested this with bicyclist, but maybe next time I will do this either until I get to a legal passing zone or the bicyclist(s) pulls over on the shoulder and stops to let me pass.
Its amazing to watch them park one of those things in the campground, that takes excellent driving skills and attention to detail. My husband can back our 26' trailer into anywhere, but not me (although I'm an excellent driver and do tow the trailer), I fall apart when it comes to backing.
So, before you judge, have all the facts............the drivers of those motorhomes are plenty in control........they don't want to hit you nor do they want to wreck their $250k+ rig.
I had a couple of winners this morning. First was a woman in a CRV who was eating pretty furiously while driving, and almost rear ended me. I actually braced myself to be hit, but she stopped in time. These little SUVs are too often driven in this manner by careless people I will refrain from profiling more. Then I was driving on I90, and was in my exit only lane preparing to leave the road. A clueless looking gent in a prev gen Corolla cuts me off to get into the lane, then proceeds to go 30 in a 40 once we are off the highway. When the road finally widens and I get around him, he gives me the most offended look I have ever seen. I simply draw a line across my throat, and he looked dead-on straight from there on. When these people become the supposed victims of road ragers through intentional crashes or bullets, I can't feel sorry for them.