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I will disagree with that, I have seen bicyclists on the road acting very rudely and badly. But all my experiences on the bike paths have been far, far more pleasant. Almost everyone on the bike paths are curtiously and traffic laws are observed fully.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Perhaps the next poster will be someone complaining about me as a LLC :P
I've seen some better than others. I've seen extremes but one thing I don't like about them is they are usually short and don't go anywhere. I've ridden them before but it's not a regular thing. I do between 20 and 37 miles an hour on my bicycle. I train to race and in an urban setting I'm as fast or faster than most cars, so a bicycle path with average cyclists doing 10-15 miles an hour is too dangerous. I feel more comfortable with someone closer to my speed.
When I was stationed at Yokota Airbase in Japan in 1989, the base safety officer tried to force our racing team to ride on the bicycle path. Our team spoke to him at length, explained what we were doing, and he told us we should ride on the road. I think a bicycle path is good for slow, casual touring.
The walkers and walkers have sidewalks or shoulders. As for dogs and cats...well, they can use the roads, but if they want to argue the point with a vehicle, I think the vehicle will win every time.
yesroh: And if you want to really claim the road, you'd lose. Automobiles have only been terrorizing roads since the late 1800's. They really belong to walkers, horses, and cyclists since...ohhh...sometime before Christ.
Bicycles came into widespread use in the U.S. in the late 1800s - or only a little bit before the automobile. So if bicyclists "really want to claim the road" based on which form of transportation was there first, they'd lose, too.
Roads were built for horses and horse-drawn carriages (both of which transported passengers between towns, as even in pre-automobile times most people didn't walk long distances) and horse-drawn wagons (which farmers used to move goods to the town markets). They weren't built for bicycles.
Using your logic, the next time you see a horse-drawn Amish buggy, you'd better yield the right-of-way.
It was the advent of the automobile (and trucks) that spurred the development of smooth, level and paved roads. Only auto registration fees and gasoline taxes generated enough revenue to pay for these improvements. Based on (with a nod to the late Johnnie Cochrane) "those who pay have the right-of-way," drivers have a stronger case than anyone else.
Thanks for your cooperation and participation!
Mercer Street Exit I-5 Northbound, downtown Seattle
and
Exit to I-205 to go North from I-84, East Portland
Are exits from the Left lane common on the Right coast and Midwest?
I live on the east coast in a pretty sizeable city. We do have left lane exits, but I wouldn't say they are common. My city is a pretty booming city with a lot of growth and development. Most of our left lane exits are where a highway or beltline or something was kind of added (squeezed in) to an area where there were already a couple of highways, and the best way to exit from one to the next is via a left lane exit.
In heavy traffic I have to be sure to try for the left lane well ahead of time and with the traffic flow typically 10-20 miles an hour over the speed limit, I just don't want a ticket. Technically, you can get one, even if you go with the flow. I had one in 2002 and that was a mess. Never again. I'm not breaking the law and having my insurance raised just to please rude people.
So this brings us back to speed limits. Not only are they supposed to tell the driver a safe speed to maintain, but they maintain order by keeping everyone at the same speed so you don't have large variations. But folks decide they don't want to drive at the speed limit, and they make up their own laws and then blame the person who is driving the way driving was originally intended. Speed limits are designed to help us. Some people say there shouldn't be speed limits, but just think if someone goes flying through your neighborhood at 100 miles an hour. If there are no limits, then you have no way to prevent that.
So let's try to drive with the flow posted on the side of the road that everyone can read and understand.
You are describing the problem when you need a left lane exit and the people who are used to driving at any speed in the lanes tailgate you to make you get out of their way. Even if you speed up some of them will keep right on your bumper. They want you out of their lane. I named them LLDs, left-lane dominators.
There are others who drive faster than the limit or flow. When they come up behind someone, they just zip over to the right lane and they're gone. They don't cut back in front of the person who was in their lane at the speed limit or above just to show their waggle of their rear end as they weave back over into the left lane. They are going somewhere. They're not on an ego trip.
Left lane exits: I-71 near Louisville onto I-265 southbound. Two lane interstate. Must use left to exit.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would also characterize the best of these drivers as not wanting any hassles or confrontations and having absolutely no desire to "prove" anything. They are smooth in their moves, desire not to offend and avoid any actions that could be perceived as intimidating. These drivers can also readily discern a left lane blocker without the need to tailgate and then expeditiously use the right lane to pass but at a speed that would not alarm the left laner. And, of course, this driver will be looking straight ahead but with appropriate peripheral vision on left during the pass.
If the cop picks you out of a group doing an oh-so-dangerous 10 over, you're probably doing something else wrong as well, or he's meeting his quotas. It's a risk. Certainly no worse than impeding traffic flow simply to follow a "law" of dubious merit.
Would agree and generally this holds true. But, speed limits don't always make sense. We all probably have good examples of ridiculous disparities. Take for example a 2-lane poorly maintained US route segment in my area that has heavy 18-wheeler traffic along with usual cars, suvs, etc. This segment,about 6 miles long, has no shoulders, is mostly double yellow, has crests and twists, farmer's driveways, no turn lanes at crossroads and is posted at 55 MPH. In nearby county that has some far-out suburbs, there is a segment (15 mile) of 3-lane each way interstate which is straight, wide full shoulders on left and right side and the posted limit is 55 MPH. Can both of these speed limits be correct? If the 2-lane 55 MPH is proper, then perhaps the interstate should be 85 MPH. And vice-versa, if the interstate is proper at 55 MPH, than the 2-lane maybe should be 35-40 MPH.
Lots of two-lane rural roads don't get attention and often have limits too high for safety. I'm not so worried about those which are too low...when people drive too fast, people can die. If they drive too slow...they just take longer to get where they're going.
Causing every vehicle to dodge you like a pylon is just as bad as dodging every vehicle like you're on a slalom
You see the speed limit posted in English. Everyone sees it. The law says,"Do not exceed this speed". So I follow the rules. If others refuse to follow the rules it's their fault that they have to dodge me and go around me. Is it the victim's fault for not outrunning the bullet? 'Tis not logical.
I'll be making a 60 mile drive to Cincinnati and watch the drivers and their behaviors on the 3 and 4 lane interstate as the friction unfolds there. But there will be many people who drive that every day (misery) to commute to work and will expect everyone to be going 80 or be out of their lane. There will be others who just wiggle through the lanes and get somewhere faster with less stomach acid. But they often don't get too far ahead unless they get off at the circle freeway. I'll catch up with them as we hit the city.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It always happens like that. I drive to work and stay in the right lane. People keep zigging and zagging to get ahead but rarely ever make more than one or two car lengths, and for what? I often end up ahead of them by driving along peacefully in the right lane. One lane goes faster, they move into that lane. Suddenly that lane is full and it slows down while my lane speeds up from lack of traffic. Then they all try to squeeze back into my lane because it's faster, but often end up losing a place or two because we all moved ahead when they left our lane. It's just too much effort and stress for little to no return. Why do drivers have to think they're in the Kentucky Derby? Beats me. I used to drive more like that when I was younger but one day I just saw how futile and silly the whole game was.
Good Luck out there Man.
I don't mind going around you, though, so no loss. A little blip of the throttle and I can be around you so fast you'll fall over in my wake. I rarely go more than 10 over for any measurable period of time, and I have an absolutely perfect driving record. I can look out for revenue collecting stations/speedtraps - around these parts the cops aren't creative. I'm OK.
At present prices - interstate drivers including the LLD & fintails haven't slowed down. "What's in your wallet?"
What will make me conform? Credible justification for these "laws of the land".
It is obvious that no solution nor roadway is one-size-fits-all. Busier roadways would present more opportunity for collisions between these users.
No, I want to go away from the speed limits because there is no winning that argument!
Going with the flow of traffic can be as dangerous if not more so than blindly following speed limits or driving far over or under that limit (the variations mentioned in the same post). A driver should only drive at a speed both that person and that vehicle can safely maintain - and, I hate to say it, but to heck with the rest of traffic. Now, if that speed is not at or near (on a normal basis) the SPEED LIMIT of the roadway, the vehicle should not be there. But, here's a personal example when that is not the case:
I have a 1969 Ford Econoline van that I drove to/from Alaska three times back in the mid-90's (three one-way trips). All three of these trips took me through the Portland and Seattle areas for various reasons. At the time, the speed limit on all the freeways (outside of urban areas) in both states was 65mph (and 55mph in urban areas). My van and I could maintain either of these speeds with no problem. However, I NEVER take the van over 70 mph for any reason because it becomes unstable and I seriously doubt I could maintain control of it (or, as some would argue, the ILLUSION of control) in the event of an emergency. What's more, considering that I have but a lap belt between me, this tin can, and the pavement, I would prefer not to increase my risk any more than possible. Now, on most of the highways, my speed matched or nearly matched the traffic flow. In Seattle proper, however, it was far from it. While the posted speed was 55mph for this hilly, monstrous highway known as I5, the speed being driven by most drivers was closer to 70 or 75. I was driving 65 (enough room to accelerate if needed and safely drive it). While not the slowest vehicle on the road, there were many times that I would get folks riding up so close to me that I could not see their vehicle out my rear view mirror (sedans)..... that is too darned close! They may have felt I was in their way, but they had no awareness of my situation or the reason I was driving the speed I was. I did my best to respect my "outsider" status and keep out of the way, but heck, how much of an inconvenience is slowing down for 10 seconds before being able to change lanes? At 10 over the SL, no less! :sick:
The moral is that as long as you are driving within the capabilities of your environment and are being considerate to those around you, you are not part of the problem on the road. Going with the flow can get you killed if it is outside of your abilities, and there's a good chance it would be your fault.
I love this statement. A difficult one to remember depending on the circumstances, but in general it is true. Of course, you CAN die doing anything, but truely driving too fast for conditions increases your risk exponentially.
Are you sure you do not have a license plate frame or a bumper sticker they are trying to read?
Winners win, losers philosophize!
No one should be pressured into driving faster than they feel safe to drive. If it's raining and there is water pooled on the road, if it's dark, fog, both...whatever, you should not drive faster than you feel safe. As a younger driver I often forced myself to drive with the flow at night when it was raining and I couldn't see the road. Everyone else did. Speed limits are for dry, daylight, ideal conditions.
Of course, especially in fog, it's fun to watch someone come up behind you, try to pressure you to drive too fast, and then go around and suddenly find out why you were driving too slow. It's easier to drive in fog when you can follow the tail lights of the car in front of you.
I'm tired...what was the original thread? I forget.
If it gets bad, I'll just get a FOP sticker for my car.
And voting for someone does not give them credibility, just as something being law does not make it correct.
Isn't that irritating. I love the ones who insist on tailing you at 25 mph but don't want to pass. They just want you to go faster so they can follow and stop if you hit something... Women are especially bad. Men will pass if you pull over and slow down to make it easier. One of many favorite inconsiderate drivers...
Another is the snow fairy. She stays on your tail on the new slick, 28 degree snow and wants you go to faster. She refuses to pass. I am extra careful about the temperature of the pavement under the snow with warm snow. And some of my commute had roadbeds that stayed warmer longer giving the extra slick areas on two lane country roads; and t here were areas that would freeze a mist into black ice. I pick my own speed for my tires and car. I don't like being tailgated at 30 mph in 3 inches of warm, new snow. Give me 20 degrees and it's been 20 for days and the roads are cold, and I'll drive with the best of them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
On the bike paths around here I rarely have anyone coming up behind me that didn't announce they were "passing on the right" or left.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I live in Chicago and I can think of a good half dozen or so around the area.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I also find that when traffic is heavier, with one lane going faster, then slowing, the next lane going faster, then slowing...the yo-yo affect, if I go slowly and stay in my lane, we usually all end up coming together, but with them going much faster, then much slower, and me going more of a constant speed, I'm usually not bothered with braking much. It just works out a lot better and in heavy traffic there is often no gain in trying to zig zag to find the fastest lane.
Also, I'd rather be hit from the rear than hit someone myself. It'll be their fault! If I try to go up and fight with them, I risk hitting them.
No hassle, no anger, no irritation at stupid LLCs or tailgaters.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,