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Comments
It sounds like you were in the freeway near San Jose. I can picture that minivan and think back how people survived probably a roll over or a sideswipe collision or did not survive.
Very thoughtful post and I too wish more drivers were more considerate and not so selfish and reckless.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
Come to think of it, it's incredibly rare that I see any humans (without their two-ton metal shells) on that street at all. In fact, some roads in the neighborhoods don't even allow pedestrians. It's suburbia -- I guess everybody drives everywhere.
You're right, I was on 101 probably around Palo Alto or so. I can imagine in your line of work you probably saw a lot of horrific things. I can't imagine being the first responder arriving on such a scene.
Actually, I had something new happen a few nights ago. I was the first person in my lane to get stopped at the scene of an accident. I was driving up 101 at night when I saw a CHP vehicle parked in the middle of the highway, and the officer was standing in front waving his flashlight at us. I stopped and a line of cars started to pile up behind me.
While I was sitting there waiting, I noticed a car facing the wrong way up against the median. To my amateur eye, it looked like the damage was pretty bad, but there was no sign of serious injury (no ambulance, nobody lying on the ground, and they actually moved the vehicle to the shoulder while we were stopped).
I was sitting there for only a few minutes before the officer moved his car and everybody got underway. I had never been in that situation before, though, and I found myself wondering a few things. Like, should I keep my headlights on while sitting there, or am I blinding the officers on the scene?
I decided to kill the headlights and keep the parking lights on while we were stopped.
Whatever happened, it wasn't good, but I was relieved to see it didn't look too severe.
Pick out the ones you believe in and critize or ignore the rest.
That isn't the way it works. Government is of laws, not of men making selfish individual responses to The Law.
What's good for the goose...
"Pun" intended?
Selective enforcement has AUTHORITY granted by The Law.
Selective ignorance of the law has no authority granted by The Law.
How close to Anarchy is the cafeteria approach to obeying and being submissive to The Law?
Indeed in CA (as is true in most of the 50 states and territories etc) the vehicle code states a sworn officer has to WITNESS an infraction, to so called issue an infraction, citation, etc etc. (I am not sure if I am using the precise technical terms here). They can also issue infraction citation BLAME upon investigation after the fact. So if that isn't true, or the people or legislature wishes to change the vehicle code regarding this, then indeed; ie:, would I as a citizen would be able to issue a LLC er ticket to those LLCamping?
(corollary: where is John Belushi when you need him for a (comedic)FOOD fight!? )
Matter of fact, the arresting officer actually witnessing the violation in regards to accidents is extremely low. As far as you citing a driver directly,for LLC or such, no, citizens arrest would not be applicable. Not that you can't make out a sworn statement to police and perhaps they may be able to investigate and gather some corroborative evidence that might make citation possible. By Ohio law, I cannot even cause the arrest of driver directly under my signature for traffic laws since I am retired.
I trust that you did not exceed the posted speed limit in doing so.
james
Next topic that comes to mind, would be what is the RATIO of moving violations issued, i,e, how many LLCamping tickets vs moving violations, such as speeding, etc and of course the logic behind the ratio/s (if any)
The logic to that might be attributed to the ease of the officer prevailing if the case went to court. (much less testimony involved and the simplicity of detailing the facts of the violation.)
Interesting. I have long had the understanding that tickets are given with the assumption that people are far more likely to pay up and get it over with, rather than fight. The theory goes, if everybody exercised their legal rights to the fullest, the system would probably break down entirely or need serious revisions. (I fought a ticket last year, based on this, and I eventually won.)
But why would officers even care about the likelihood of victory in court, if the vast majority of tickets never even go to court?
On the other hand, I wonder if people would be more likely to try to fight a tailgating ticket in the first place, since it's so unusual and, as you indicate, harder to prove.
But what you say is definitely interesting. This corroborates the theory that for many officers, traffic laws are enforced more by likelihood of conviction (which could reasonably be extrapolated to a revenue motivation) than by actual safety considerations.
At the same time, I'm glad to be reminded that some officers do target tailgaters and other oft-ignored hazards. You must have some interesting stories...?
Not cute at all, in fact, one of the ugliest traits of humanity.
And with all due respect, unless you have never broken a law in your entire life, you should probably tone it down a notch, or admit your hypocrisy.
Heck you can even see a lot with periffial vision. People do have a 180 degree field of vision.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
This whole discussion isn't about what the law says. We know what the law says. That's pretty easy to determine.
It's about whether the law is the absolute determinant of what is morally right and wrong. Pretty philosophically heavy stuff. Too heavy for this forum.
I do not believe that strict, blind adherence to a set of codified guidelines is necessary to maintain an orderly society. Adherence to some of those guidelines, yes; but the punishment for high crimes is generally commensurate with the supposed severity of the crime. Points on a license and a fine? Not a very severe punishment, and one I can deal with receiving a few times in my life. (That doesn't mean I won't complain about the system and exercise my full legal rights, though. If you don't want to hear my complaints, you can skip those parts of my posts.
My posts in this forum, in the context of inconsiderate driver stories, will continue to reflect my beliefs on this subject. To anybody who may disagree, or think I'm wrong or even morally corrupt because of this, I have three little words for you:
C'est la vie!
(Pardon my French.)
I was picturing the situation as I read your post. I would suggest to you that with the traffic behind you closing in, that keeping your lights on would be the best thing to do.
The CHP officer is most likely very much aware of the traffic coming down on this situation. We had to keep eyes on the traffic as many times people would try to sneak by the scene and not stop, or if they were stopped by the CHP, they would give us some excuse which was ok too.
And most CHPs are not bothered by a car's headlights - we were used to it.
Ay tire squealing behind you? Any other car begin to spin or go around and around? I bet it was abit scary sitting there but I am glad you were not hurt just being an observer.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
It actually went very well. Traffic seemed to calmly coast to a stop behind me. Once there was a substantial accumulation of cars behind me, I wasn't worried anymore, because I was insulated from any other oncoming traffic
It probably helped that it was about 4:00 in the morning Saturday (still Friday night in my mind), and traffic was extremely light.
I always wondered what it would be like the first time I witnessed such a scene with no cars in front of me, and I'm glad it didn't appear to be too serious. I don't really want to have to watch bodies being dragged from mangled cars ... *shudders*
Fortunately, there's an abundance of actions taking place on the roads to get us back to the matter at hand.
Had one yesterday that brings up a question. Three lane road with a center lane left turn only. Traffic isn't heavy, but there's a steady flow of cars in the traffic lane. The car in front of me puts on their left turn signal (they're scoring points with me already
The question. If you find yourself committed to an action (making a wrong turn), do you make the wrong turn or do something silly? I've found myself "caught" in a left turn only lane at a light and I'll make the left turn and find my way back on track rather than not make the turn and surpise others driving around me. Maybe I'm weird...
Favorite subject I guess. Funny how there's no such thing as "right lane camper".
My brother is a state cop (investigator now, but use to be on the road) who taught me a trick. He said traffic always moves in "packs", don't know why/didn't care but he was always amazed by this. He said "You really want to have a pleasant drive? Observe the speed of the pack and back off a couple clicks." I joked and said "Well, why don't I speed up a couple of clicks... Same thing!". He laughed and said it just doesn't work that way, the pack would adjust and try to keep up with you, this also explained the phenomenon of the "left lane camper", sometimes it's not their fault.
I stated if you backed of a couple of clicks, you'd probably irritate traffic - a lot! He said "No, there is something psychological to drivers that the right lane is non-negotiable."
It is very hard to do this at first, but once you get use to it - it's fantastic! For the past couple of years, it's actually been fun watching the antics of the drivers off in the left lanes..... You also enjoy sections of road all to yourself as the pack pulls away until the next pack engulfs you...........
I've posted before about driving to Cincy at 55 or a little higher in the right lane. The trucks are supposed to be going 55 but go faster, yet it's still a pleasant drive. You watch the people trying to go 80 when the left lanes (#3, #2) are going 68-72. They look so frustrated as though their life depends on being able to use that supposed 268 horsepower in their Camry, e.g., to zoom, zoom, zoom! I arrive in Cincy about 8 minutes near downtown on a 48 mile drive from Dayton all on I75, refreshed and calm.
I try to stay out of the way of truckers going reasonable speeds. I'll move into the #2 lane so they can pass on the right without having to merge left to do so.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yeah, I feel sorry for the truckers... I'll speed up if it looks like they're going to get "squirrel trapped", and once they're by, resume normal operations...
Yep, the "left-laners" always have that frustrated tired look, kind of feel sorry for them.
I did this app 2 years ago to break in new tires on a Z06 Corvette. The basic drill was to go 45/50 mph for app 250/500 miles. So I took it on a 100 mile R/T at 40/45 mph on a normally 80 plus mph normal traffic highway, to put a dent in that break in procedure. At first is was a bit disconcerting; watching literally THOUSANDS of cars pass!!! Once I got over that, it was TOTALLY clear that I was in an almost total cocoon! At 40/45/50 mph, you can almmost drive the car from the OTHER seat, pat your head, chew gum, and do circles on your tummy while drinking coffee and eating your food.
One day, after having been through that very intersection just three days prior, I find that suddenly, just before the intersection, the right hand lane I am in has become right-turn-only at the major street intersection instead of a block beyond like it had been three days ago (and forever prior to that).
Okay, I say to myself, and signal left and move into the left-hand lane since I want to go through. I do have to cross the suddenly-just-painted solid white line, but I do not bother anyone at all.
Hmph. Next thing I know I hear a siren and I get pulled. I did not get a ticket, but I got a long lecture from a traffic cop who didn't want to hear that this was a sudden change that I am only just learning; his position was once I was in a right-turn only lane with a solid white line I no longer had the choice of going where I wanted to go, I had to go where the lane told me to go.
Didn't matter that this change had happened suddenly with no warning, I was supposed to turn where I didn't want to go and just deal with it.
I knew enough not to argue with him, but I still think that was a little over the top. If that configuration had been there for a while, or if signs had been posted saying traffic pattern has changed (which weren't), it would have been one thing, but given the circumstances I think getting pulled and listening to the lecture I got was ridiculous.
He was probably having a bad day, and you served as an outlet for him to vent to.
I also believe as you mentioned, that a orderly society needs laws, however, blind adherance to law does not necessarily mean a responsible and free society.
I do believe in individual responsiblity for one's actions within a society. I have worked in law enforcement, law, taught in a jail, and worked for a small non profit performing group therapy with middle school students.
In each environment I have observed the lack of self esteem, compassion, responsibility, love, and emotional maturity on BOTH SIDES of the job. (fill in other emotions/values/principles here as they all will fit some place within the human experience.)
Why do I say this here? I guess I am rambling however, we are discussing the same life issues here with the focus of inconsiderate drivers.
And many of the posts here reflect the poster's experiences dealing with such irresponsible, emotionally immature, unsympathetic drivers who violate our rights.
The good news is here we can share our viewpoints and we are alive to talk about it. And it is most IMPORTANT to share what we experienced as a way of dealing with it.
I really appreciate the members here as I learn much and appreciate all. I hardly ever posted until I came here.
Good luck to all and stay safe, I don't know if I made sense to anyone else but it mades sense to me, and I am through rambling.
jensad
Yes, the fatals get to you. First day on as a Berkeley Police Officer, (before I was on the CHP) myself and six other "rookies" had to pick up body parts. Same thing on the CHP, except the environment was different.
Always appreciated truckers, as they many times would stop behind me on the freeway, (made me think of nightvzn's experience) and with the truck behind me, I had a pretty good chance of not getting run over when I did my job.
Grateful to be alive, still married to the same soul for 42 years, having family - kids, grandkids, dogs, cats , fill in.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
I think they should have had some warning signs or other prior notice of the upcoming changes. You might have had a court case there.
Also, overbearing people in general always get my goat. It seems universal, people with power, can corrupt it, regardless of what they do for a living. However, people with real power, hardly ever have to use it.
I'm posting too much. Just many posters have such good stuff happening to them and I can relate.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
When Jim emerged from the Volvo, the wind from a passing truck blew his jacket open revealing his holsterd gun. When the stater saw that, he yelled while going into a crouch and putting his hand on his gun, "@#$% you're armed." Jim grinned back and said, "So are you, you silly SOB. Do you want to talk or shoot it out?"
I do the same thing almost every time (sounds like I make a lot of mistakes), especially if there are other cars around. It just seems easier than causing grief or ticking someone off.... or looking like I made a mistake.
I was shocked at how calming it was to stay in the right lane while going slow (50-55). Of course, I don't practice that on a regular basis but if life gets stressful, it really works wonders.
Absolutely. I was faced with this scenario for the first time when I was 16 - I had been driving (on roads!) for about 6 months at the time. On my first solo trip into a city (and one with which I was mostly unfamiliar, for that matter), I found myself in the left "go straight" lane, at the front of the line waiting at a light. As I scanned my surroundings, I suddenly realized that I wanted to turn left here, and the left turn lane was a "dedicated turn only," so turns were only allowed on a green arrow. There were no drivers in the left lane, but many behind me. I started to panic, fearing that I would loose my way in this strange city, alone, at night...
So, when the light turned green, I pulled into the intersection and moved over in front of the turn lane. I started to back up into the turn lane when the driver behind me (who was also in the left go-straight) took exception to this and blocked me out of the lane. I did not expect this and was not watching for this, so I just kept backing up into the left turn lane to wait for the next light change when suddenly... BANG! I clipped bumpers with him.
So now, totally flustered and still scared to cross the intersection for fear of getting lost, I went through the intersection and made my turn anyway, then pulled over to exchange info with the other driver who of course was a complete [non-permissible content removed] and was hell-bent on "teaching me a lesson about backing up in an intersection." Of course, since this guy was around 40 and I was 16, the responding police officer made no qualms about the other driver putting his car in a position to create the collision. I received an "improper backing" citation and was found solely at fault.
I did learn a lesson by it, though, and never since have I corrected an error like that unless the roadway was empty enough to do so with a high degree of safety/certainty. And, I have definitely missed turns in foreign cities since then, but somehow always manage to find my way back on track.
On the freeways I normally frequent, if an exit ramp is not accompanied by a corresponding on-ramp, it will say "EXIT ONLY" below the ramp sign with a bold, yellow background. Ah, well.
Compared to the frazzled race in the middle lane, it's great since I always start very early. There's another (UDF) quick mart for coffee refills across from the hospital if I'm there too early so I can kill time.
I've even found using the 2nd lane out of 3 on the interstate when I'm not in a great hurry and just travel at 60-65 gets me there almost as soon. My family gets unnerved with the right lane driving at 55 so I have to drive a little faster. Even then I collect LLDs behind me because I'm not going fast enough to suit them--or would that be MLD (Middle Lane Dominators).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Whats usually worse is picking up a floater who spent the winter under the ice.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Jim grinned back and said, "So are you, you silly SOB. Do you want to talk or shoot it out?"
I know a few places where that would have got him a trip to the county jail and a visit to the judge monday morning.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Priceless.
But, in this case the senior deputy's non verbal communication was in control of the situation, carried a permit for his revolver & didn't DO anything to warrant what you may have experienced in a country other than the USA.'
A trip to the jail and a visit to the judge usually slams the dolt who hasn't the wit to finesse himself out of a situation involving a bully pot bellied gun totin Mayberry cop.
In this case the guy who got out of the car was completely wrong and his snide remark was not making things any better.
A trip to the jail and a visit to the judge usually slams the dolt who hasn't the wit to finesse himself out of a situation involving a bully pot bellied gun totin Mayberry cop.
No I am talking about more big city cops that have a few battle scars that will not take any crap from someone with a gun because they know better than to pull crap like that. You talk about a shoot out with these guys they take it very seriously because the areas they usually patrol have creeps that would not think twice about shooting a cop at a traffic stop.
You say "So are you, you silly SOB. Do you want to talk or shoot it out?" To a Chicago cop that has been shot at a traffic stop you will go down, one way or the other.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We (Fairbanks) have had one of those in the Chena River each Spring for the last three. Judging by some mysterious, near-the-river Fall disappearances this year, I fully expect us to have one again this year. Sad, really. Talk about a cold case...
The light turned green (for both turning and through traffic) as I was approaching the intersection But as I neared it the turn arrow turned red and I caught it red. Well I figured the the lights at the intersection would cycle through giving the cross traffic the green before giving me another green arrow. So I took my attention away from the light to put something in my car away.
Wouldn't you know it maybe 10 seconds later instead of cycling through the on coming traffic gets a red light and we had another green arrow. This was way sooner than I had expected
Need less to say I must of sat there with a green arrow and someone behind me for a few seconds. But since I didn't hear a horn I would say that 1.) it wasn't that long 2.) the other cars horn was broken or 3.) I am going deaf.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D