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Comments
IMHO, a ticket for going 10 mph over is more than justified. There are some around here who will get on your case if you are going a couple over.
You asked... I doubt if I'm the last one you hear from about this.
I agree with that much, but I also think that the way the "enforcement" was handled was dangerous. It would have served to be just as effective had the "LEO" flipped the emergency lights momentarily from the center lane.
I will recount a somewhat similar story, though in completely different conditions, as a comparison of how the officer could have better handled the control/warning scenario.
I was headed home in my old '96 Subaru from Anchorage, with my wife and (at the time) 6-mo old son. It was mid winter, I think perhaps the end of December. We were just north of Trapper Creek and headed into a snow storm that was not real bad yet, but getting worse, as darkness was falling. At this point there were about 2" of fresh snow on the highway and traffic was light. The SL through this stretch was 65.
I was driving about 45-50, and came upon a stretch of cars (2 large SUVs, a RWD '80s domestic, and led by a large Dodge dualie)driving <35. As we were at the start of a long straight stretch, with no lights approaching, I went to pass. This was a non-slow-down situation, so I just came up on them from afar, switched lanes, and continued at my same speed. As I approached the rear SUV, emergency lights came on. I knew this was an "I don't want you to go faster than me" flash, but I could hardly respect the opinion of somebody driving a vehicle far less competent in those conditions and I shuddered to think of driving the next 100 miles (typical distance to be mired in a storm along that stretch of road) going about 30 mph behind a long line of cars kicking up snow in my face. I was about to ignore the request when my wife insisted that I slow down and drop in behind. I obeyed, and ate white out for about 5 miles before I just gave up and stopped. I sat there until the next set of lights started approaching from behind and continued down the road at about 45 until, many many miles later, I caught back up to the pack. Another 10 miles down the road was a rest stop. I waited there for another 15 minutes to stretch legs, feed the child, etc., and during that time the storm started dumping snow - I mean we had 4-5" on the car by the time we left! I could only drive about 30-35 after that for lack of visibility and for the 5-6" of snow on the road, but by the time we emerged from the storm we never saw any of those vehicles again.
It worked out fine as we did get home safely, but notice that the "LEO" involved did not swerve into the left lane? That is the difference between warning and bullying.
But you can certainly bet, were I the officer in the case mentioned in the original post, if somebody did pass while I was doing 10-over (why would I be going that fast in the first place?!), they would receive a ticket. There is no sign on the back of a patrol car that says "Passing Prohibited" or "You must drive the speed I choose to drive." But you, as the driver, still have to accept responsibility for breaking a law even if you feel it is safe to do so. I pass patrol cars all the time that are driving at or below the posted speed limit. I have never been pulled over, but then I am never going more than 3-4 over the SL either. If the officer chose to pull me over, then fine - I am willing to assume that risk. I would not want to push it with a 4 (10+ over) or 6 (20+ over) point offense though, but then there are no roads up here that are "safe" to traverse that fast for sustained periods of time, either, so why would I be tempted to do so?
On the highways i mentioned, the speed i go at [70-80mph] is the common speed of the far left lane [ignoring LLC/LLB] so my reason for wanting to go that speed wasnt unjustified.
What i'm annoyed with is with the less-safe conditions the patrol officer creates when the car-density increases simply due to his presence and locked speed. Also, as 1racefan mentioned, drivers do become twitchy and act odd in the precense of a patrol car. While I certainly dont have anything against law enforcement of any kind, I think they should pick and choose their battles instead of trying to create a dictatorship for highway speed regulation.
Jensad: Dont worry, no offense taken. Thanks for your input.
Please keep in mind this officer was doing his job and may have even been told to work that area to slow things down a bit. If you don't like the speed limits, bring it up with the legislature. Don't take it out on the cops.
Can you imagine the complaints he would have gotten from all the other cars around you if he had let you pass him?
Can you name another way other than that and pulling over one car at a time?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The road he is describing is a heavily traveled road with a lot of traffic getting on and off with a toll booth at the end. While traffic often goes at speeds greater than 65 it is really not a road for it IMHO.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We would run what we called a "round robin" on the freeways.
It does not apply here, but here is how it worked. When there was an accident in an area where on coming traffic could not see ahead, we would try to slow down the traffic.
Example was the EastShore Freeway which had many up and down freeway roadway. It would be like dips and upgrades on a country road, except it was on a freeway and made visibility ahead almost impossible. And driving over the upgrade and into a lower freeway area, you could be caught by suprise if there were an accident that you did not anticipate. Powell Street in Emeryville was an excellent example.
So we would drive our patrol cars ahead of the traffic and slow it down about a 1/2 to 1 mile BEFORE the Powell Street upgrade. This was done by weaving across the freeway in front of cars, with your red light/yellows on.
By slowing down the traffic, we could maybe prevent an accident and keep the people at the scene of the accident safe. It worked most of the time.
As to this situation, it don't fit, but if you see a patrol car trying to slow down traffic, and later notice an accident, he/she may have been doing what we called a "round robin".
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
Some things are destined to remain a difference of opinion
I can't render an impartial judgment because I am not familiar with this stretch of road, but I know plenty of stretches where you could probably get similar differences of opinion. In general, I feel that a competent driver with a decent vehicle in good weather with reasonably diffuse traffic can safely drive a good bit faster than a lot of posted highway limits.
Of course that's a lot of criteria, and each of them is subjective, so we're left where we began
Are you talking about one of those pretzel-shaped knots in the Oakland/Emeryville area? I'm trying to picture where it is. Not sure if the EastShore Freeway includes 880 running all the way to Fremont/Milpitas/San Jose, because what strikes me about that highway is how incredibly long/straight/flat it is. Barring an SUV in front of you, you can see for days.
But there are areas in Oakland/Berkeley/Emeryville, where every highway and its brother are coming together, where it just feels like a recipe for disaster. I'm amazed there aren't more disastrous accidents there.
Just curious because I probably drive the areas you mention all the time. Some of them are pretty awful.
How do you feel about officers using FOP tags on their license plates so they won't get tickets from fellow officers or even stopped because on duty officers see the FOP tag or their FOPA tag for their friends and family?
HOw do you feel about the cards they or family show when stopped to indicate they are police-related? A friend of ours has used hers three times in the last 6 months.
??? I am not accusing you of having done these. Rather I'm interested in your opinion or how you handled them?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But remember that here 65 is a good bit faster than the posted speed limit. Among others things.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Most of the cops I know tell me that that would be an automatic ticket and no warning will be given. They do that because 1.) if this person is police related they should know the rules and 2,) they are not going to be manipulated.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That's not the way it works in this area.
One of her violations was a left turn out of a gas station across 3 lanes to get to the northbound 2 lanes. Signs are up (it's in interstate ramp area). Another was speeding (the same rural township cops gave a high school kid a ticke for flashing his bright lights when he on-coming cop had his on bright--probably baiting drivers so he could write tickets for flashing their lights at him), and third was either redlight or speeding through that same interstate ramp area. Not tickee for her! I asked her husband is he could get me one of those cards. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I've been waiting for this question - good question.
I am from the generation of not having the use of radar. I had to clock usually from the rear with my car. I usually made "runs" well over the speed limt to catch up to clock the person I was after. (I.e. 100 mph five to six times each work day just to catch up quick enough not to be seen.)
I would be dishonest if I told you I did not go faster than the speed limit. On duty I knew I was in the fish bowl and did not exceed the limits to a great extent. I still to this day in my private vehicle, travel about 10 mph over the limits on freeways, but I do not speed on city streets as it is too dangerous for the children ect..
As to the cards (and the money offerred) I did not take the money and I still gave a person the ticket.
As to the FOP I assume that means Friends Of Police right? No matter I did the ticket route.
I did not give citations to politicians, (I stopped several) and other police officers and fire persons unless they were way out of line. And I did cite several law enforcement people in my time. That is being honest with you.
I also tried to be compassionate towards the people I cited. Many times my supervisors would get on my back for not "writing enough" citations, yet, my services rendered (helping people i.e. stall,s directions ect...) were very high. I did the best job I could as I saw it.
And please remember there were many others in my field that probably did their job very different than mine. It will be interesting to see the replies of the members.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
I saw an interesting plate last week with an FOP stick or metal tag on it: "YES SIRR." I'm not sure just how that could be taken but I tend to read it as someone who feels they are in charge and others should be telling the "Yes Sir."
My interest is in that of the cars speeding or driving aggressively there is a slightly higher percentage having the FOP tags than occurs in those driving normally and cautiously. Hence my connection with inconsiderate driving and FOP tags. Many appear to be from the metro part of my area where I live. So being urban police they may have different attitudes.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards,
Kyle
I feel exactly the same way. I... should probably not expand on that though as I will likely get to rambling for quite some time. :mad:
Its been a long time since I worked this freeway and it may be different now. And I don't live there so here goes.
In 1960s early 1970s, there were areas on that freeway, where a driver could not see ahead due to the ups and downs of the freeway roadway.
Now if you are coming towards the maze, from Gilman St Berkeley, you reach Emeryville, and that last exit is (was) Powell Street. There is an blind spot as you approach that overpass. I.e. you cannot see over the top part of the roadway.
And if you happen to be going too fast, you may find just on the other side of that overpass on the freeway, a stalled car, or an accident in the lanes.
So we would run a round robin from Gilman down past Powell Street to slow down traffic. It worked quite well. Hope this helps.
jensad
Probably heard that they had just "rolled back" prices on aisle 9, and had to get there quickly. This just goes back to the "me first" attitude "snakeweasel" brought up a couple pages back. Either that, or this driver was in "la-la land" and hadn't a clue that the power was out, nor were they paying attention to anything else in the world around them.
BTW and off topic, if wally world keeps rolling back prices shouldn't everything there be free by now?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
To some extent, that driver probably just did not see red and failed to register anything further. Not that it would excuse the action, but at least all the other drivers were appropriately cautious. Traffic patterns can go so haywire during power outages. There have been a time or two that I almost felt compelled to get out and direct traffic, but for fear of my life. :surprise:
"He who hesitates is lost."
and *I* complain about my kids stuffing wrappers in the rear door pulls :P
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I read it wrong at first too, but what I think xwesx meant is that the driver did not see red (because there was no red to see), so didn't compute the usual "oh, it's red, I have to stop," and so went right on through.
As opposed to the driver not seeing a red light that was functioning. That's what I read at first, but at second glance, I don't think that's what xwesx meant..
Now, my desk at work is somewhat cluttered, but I absolutely cannot stand having any junk inside my car!
Think that roadway littering has diminished over the years. But, there are still those who do it. Very rarely see anyone doing it, those that do are probably discreet. Couple years ago in summer, I was following a newer red pickup in an adjacent lane on a busy suburban road and the driver and passenger were each throwing out what appeared to be fast-food bags, hamburger wrappers, french fry trays, soft drink cups, etc one at a time. Caught up to them at next traffic light and they appeared to be in early 20's. At that time, kind of wished I were an undercover cop.
If you walk or ride a bike on even the back roads, you'll see an awful lot of junk (hard to see when you're going at high speeds in a car). Beer cans and bottles seem to dominate, along with paper.
A group I belong to volunteered to do a litter pick-up one day about a year ago. We were assigned a 1/2 stretch of 4 lane highway to pick up trash along, and there were 4 of us working this stretch.
What baffled surprised me was the number of car parts we picked up. By the time we were through, we had a bumper cover, 4 hubcaps (not matching), various brake parts, assorted trim pieces. I filled up 2 large garbage bags with litter (as did the other 3 volunteers), along with our stack of car parts.
Yet, despite this dirt, people say "oh my goodness, your car is so clean!" because of the lack of clutter.
Besides, the way I drive, clutter would quickly became a ballistic hazard :P
The other type of clutter that is annoying is dirty/greasy windows, especially in winter. Amazing how many people apparently don't clean their windows for a long time. You can see this grease/grime on their windows in sunlight. That is inconsiderate when you happen to glance over at their car if you are a clean freak.
You've done that too huh? LOL, I thought I was the only one.
Most people who get into my truck swear I don't allow my kids in it. I do, its our family vehicle, however, they know better than to make any mess at all. Now hubby's truck, ugh, we won't go there and don't get me started on the old Ford.... :sick:
I had to do an inventory, that is, itemization of the contents of the arrestee's car-home. And I think the thing I remember the most besides getting my uniform dirty was the smells.
Seeing this photo, reminded me of the smells. It was a little worse, if the occupant(s) had animals who I had to take to the SPCA for safe keeping.
Hope all have a great day and stay safe.
jensad
That reminds me of a time I was buying groceries at the local Safeway store. I had returned to my vehicle with my purchases, in bags (no cart), only to find the good folks in the space next mine preparing to leave. They finished unloading their cart as I was approaching, pushed it out of their way, directly behind my toyota, and were getting into their old chevy S-10.
I walked up, moved the cart over, blocking their S-10, and proceeded to load my stuff. The old guy seated in the passenger seat of the S-10 hollered ar me, "Hey, what are you doin'?
I replied, "Your cart was blocking my truck".
He was clearly unhappy. "Well, now I can't get out."
"That's too bad", I said... (long pause) "Would you like me to put it away for you? There's a rack right over there".
"No, I'll get it".... (grumble-grumble-grumble) He got out and took the cart to the rack, just across the aisle and 2 spots down.
I waved goodbye, climbed in my truck, and chuckled all the way home.
james
That was classic!!! I applaud your demeanor, wit, and your finesse in dealing with discourteous people.
And I got a great morning laugh as I pictured what you were doing.
To all have a great day.
jensad
I know there is some sort of love-to-hate-it attitude toward Armor All, but I always used Armor All on my '96 Subaru as well. It had glossy vinyl on it, though, so the application actually kept it looking very nice. This new one's surfaces are either cloth or matte vinyl, so I will have to use something different. I have a feeling, though, that it will end up being more difficult to keep clean.
Not that this is quite the same, but last weekend I was at the local Sam's Club with my son (~2.5 yo) to do our monthly shopping. When we came out of the store, we were pushing our cart through the parking lot behind another shopper, who was also pushing a cart.
We both finished unloading our carts at about the same time, and then the other fella started looking around, somewhat desperate it seemed, for a place to stash his cart. As I always put my cart back by the store or in a return rack, I told him to just push it behind my car and I would take care of it along with mine. He thanked me, proceeded to do so, and then, after a few moments, realized that I had a young child with me. As I was buckling my son into his seat, he grabbed both carts and took them back to the store. I looked up at him as he was headed off and he said, "Oh, I can get it. You have a little one." I said, "Thanks! That is very considerate of you!"
I frequently offer to take other people's carts, either when headed into the store upon arrival or when taking my own cart away, and that is the very first time someone ever reciprocated by actually taking my cart instead. :surprise:
I was quite amazed, actually. I discussed it with my son all the way to the next store on our list - praising the other man's actions. He concluded the conversation by saying, quite decidedly, "that was a very nice man. Thank you, nice man!" :P
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Then you don't get a cart (or you get some change).
What if you did a cart round up yourself? Could you walk away with someone else's quarter because you returned thier cart?
Yep, but there are never any carts in the lot. I used to wonder why but know I know.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I guess that IKEA solved the cart problem in the parking lot. Last time I was there, they had steel posts embedded in sidewalk around front of store. You could not get the cart beyond these posts. Had to go get your car/vehicle and pull it up to loading area which was near the embedded posts. This setup totally eliminates inconsiderate persons in their IKEA lots.