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Comments
That is goofy, but one should be cautious. I am in a rural area, and depending on my route home from somewhere, I might take a number of roads and turns. Every once in a while, some vehicle "appears" to be following making all the turns that I do. If the follower is still behind when I get to road my home is on, and do not recognize vehicle as a neighbor, I do not turn, but go straight, and start going toward nearby town. Just don't know today what kind of motivation some might have or if I somehow, in spite of always being courteous, I ticked off someone. Don't want them following to your house.
As I'm waiting, some bozo pulls up next to me on the left, trying to squeeze ahead of me, and another car squeezes on my right! (Keep in mind this is a one lane ramp.) Now I guess the guy on the right wanted to get into the right lane of the cross street and go straight through the intersection, but where did the dimbulb on the left think they were going?
When the light changes and the traffic starts moving I pull up behind the last car with dopey trying to somehow squeeze in. Of course I don't let them, and I can see the driver and passenger yelling and waving their arms when they get behind me.
Now this is a left turn only lane onto a 4 lane divided highway (basically we're making a u-turn.) El stupido cuts the turn wide into the right lane, but I signal and get into the right lane shortly after completing the turn as I need to make a right into a parking lot entrance just ahead. Of course this makes them even madder, but if they had just made the left like they were supposed to, I wouldn't have been in front of them any longer. Serves them right :P
Also on I-10 south-bound south of Chandler Blvd, it drops to two lanes from three. Shortly after traffic from the 202 merges in, it often comes to a stop. I routinely see cars coming at a whole 50 MPH down the ramp, braking and with a turn signal on. Many of them will merge right into the stopped traffic when they have a whole empty lane in front of them. Hello? Lane drop is 1 mile ahead, you need not cut me off in a rush to stop. I often just change over into the spot they came from and continue for another 1/2 mile at 55-65 MPH, right along all the lemmings in the stopped lanes. :P On second thought, go ahead and move out of that lane as quick as possible, leaving it clear for me! :shades:
I generally try to merge as soon as I know the lane is ending. If everybody did that (and everybody else was not tailgating), the traffic flow in the non-ending lanes wouldn't be grinding to a halt in the first place.
This is what I'm referring to:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=18&ll=33.270453,-111.960055&spn=0.003283,0.005- - - 021&t=k&om=1
For perspective:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&om=1&z=15&ll=33.279059,-111.970596&spn=0.026262,- 0.040169&t=k
At the top of the second link is where drivers come on from the 202. They want to merge over to the middle and left lanes immediately from their lanes, causing lots of extra braking and congestion when their lane is completely clear.
The geniuses at ADOT decided that they would drop the right lane and then immediately shift the left and middle lanes over to the right. It is very confusing for most people.
I face a situation on my current daily commute where one highway dumps onto another one from both sides (85 to 101); there are two regular ramps merging onto the right side of 101, and one carpool ramp merging onto the left.
It's especially bad on the carpool side where people not only make zero effort to get over before the lane ends, but when they finally do so, almost nobody signals. Really it's sheer chaos that could easily be avoided if people acted preemptively, and then communicated their intention to other drivers.
It's interesting how it affects you when you watch the exact same idiocy unfold every day, sitting in the resulting congestion, knowing a few bad habits shared by 100's of cars are causing your predictable delay
The highway is like an organic whole, especially around here, except it has no nervous system. If it did, you can bet the me-me-me drivers would behave differently.
No, wait, some people would just bear the headache and drive impatiently because it was simply that important to get somewhere "faster."
(You all realize I'm kidding, I hope.)
The route I was taking was a logical route from getting from where I was to near where I was going. People are going that way constantly. It would be an event if someone didn't follow me on that route (or vise versa). The car didn't continue to follow me when I turned off the last road mentioned.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You are correct, though. I can just see the mentality now: "Argh, this headache! GET OUT OF MY WAY!!!! No, no, NO YOU DON'T!!! This is MY spot! AAAARRRGH! THIS HEADACHE!" :P
I don't know now what percentage of drivers on the Ca. freeways and streets that DO NOT have drivers licenses, have had them taken away, never had one, are nearly blind, ect.
I do know that I had contact with several in relationship to my old job as a CHP officer.
One elderly lady drove the wrong way, (about 8 miles) on Hiway 24 from downtown Oakland to the Caldecott Tunnel. I "met" her as I was coming out on the Oakland side.
I got her to the right shoulder, noted she was I think 82 yrs old. and informed her that I was requesting Dept Mtr. Vehicles to review her license and probably take it.
One more. In 1970 or 71,I stopped an elderly man driving 10 mph in the FAST lane of the Eastshore Freeway near Richmond Ca., (usual speed in fast lane is about 75-80 if not commute time) and after reaped efforts with my red light and siren I got him to stop on the right shoulder.
He had a black and white Ca. license, which was eliminated I believe about 1950ish. At that time we had newer licenses with more information. Running a radio check I found out his license had been suspended for bad eyesight over 15 years ago. I conficated his license and towed his car. Family members picked him up and a pie shop just off the freeway.
I do remember that in the early 1970s statistics said about 3 million drivers were not legally, mentally, or physically supposed to be driving in Ca.
One problem that still gets me angry, and I have learned to let them go, are the pushy ones described above, that get mad when they cannot be first and ergo cut me off. (I guess its the old ego thing with me.)
Also the one described as driving, braking, speeding up, braking, changing lanes at the last minute etc.
I do know that the members here are all experienced drivers, and safe drivers and have "survived" the insanity of bad drives and can share their experiences.
To all stay safe and have a great day.
jensad
My father used to live in the Los Angeles area in the late 60s and early 70s. He certainly had some stories, but he got out of there when he realized that the massive influx of people would not end any time soon.
And it's kind of on topic - not really on the road, but sure a lot of rage
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/about/profile/rd/resnotes/unlicensed.htm
This might be a tad off your responses and topics; but there is a SWAG that fully 25% of CA drivers do NOT carry MANDATORY insurance or otherwise under insured!!?? So if CA state population is 36.1 M, and the per capita drivers license is .627
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/trn_lic_dri_tot_num_percap-drivers-total-number- - -per-capita
there are literally MILLIONs of drivers (5.65M), who in effect, run around with absolutely NO financial responsibility!!
Since there are an estimated 2.1M illegal immigrants in CA, they CAN'T all be illegal immigrants!?
AMEN.
I find myself craving economic downturns so layoffs will reduce the California crowding (on the roads and elsewhere). An odd mental state to find oneself in.
Granted, my experience is basically limited to New York, occasionally Pennsylvania, and now California, but CA is the only state I've been in where even the rural highways get gridlocked on a regular basis. I remember a trip to Yosemite two years ago when my mom visited. I THOUGHT we'd be away from the traffic once we were well away from the bay area. Silly me.
What draws people here? They call it "quality of life." Which seems to diminish steadily the more people you cram into the state. :P Go figure.
/End of rant. For now. hahaha...
Re: all the drivers who are not or should not be licensed in California: between that, and Caltrans's approach to signage regarding lanes, merges, exits, etc. (i.e. "keep people guessing until the last second"), it's a recipe for chaos.
It looks like nothing has changed in Ca. The % I noted was chp stats. but then 3 mil was a lot of foks out there. But if you work, and needed to get to work, especially with the freeways, you drive. I used to commute to college and grad school one way was about 30 miles.
But to me it is seem "normal" the stats you presented with more and more people compared to 1970. And you hit it on the head, 5.65 mil are NOT RESPONSIBLE.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
An easy example; if another driver is doing something other than really driving and has a "DING/s" on the car, that is confirmed proof if he/she doesn't care about themselves, then who (the H) am I to them!? I have been warned!!
Being tailgated doesn't really bother me, and I am a pretty laid back person, so I just kept an eye on him, but didn't let him bother me. A little further up the road (he had been behind me for 6 miles or so now), I see a school bus coming towards me in the opposite lane, and he turns his yellow lights on, indicating he will be stopping soon (there are houses all along this stretch of the road). So, I start to slow down, anticipating the stop. The bus proceeds to slow more and more as it approaches, so I do the same - at this point I am probably doing 15mph or so. The bus then proceeds to roll on by me without stopping - I don't know if he realized the kid wasn't out waiting and kept going, or if he stopped further on down the road.
I then proceeded to accelerate once the bus went by, and at this point, a right turn lane begins that turns onto a side street that leads into town. Well, the idiot behind me whips into the right turn lane, and I assume he is just going to pass me, but instead creeps back over into my lane when he gets next to me (to express his displeasure with me having slowed down for the bus), and then jerks the wheel to the right to turn onto the side street. I hear his tires squeel, and see a little smoke come off his rear tires as he is turning, but he made the turn.
I guess maybe me slowing down for the approaching school bus appeared to him that I was doing something similar to a brake check - I just don't know...However, I would have thought he had seen the bus as well???
Seen it? Sure, but come on, how many people actually stop for school buses?
Haha... j/k, of course. I remember several years back, probably Nov of 2003, I was driving along a twisty, paved 2-laner (55 mph) with no shoulders just outside of Pendleton, OR. It was about 0730. As I crested this hill/curve at about 50, there sat a school bus in the opposing lane, about 80 feet ahead, with red lights activated and three middle-school-aged children crossing the road in my lane. I hit the brakes HARD and was able to slow enough that the children safely crossed in front, but talk about an adrenaline rush.
That was an insane spot for a bus stop. From then on, I made sure I was going far slower along that stretch of road.
Problem is, there are so dang many of these signs, AND most of the time of course, there are no school buses around that next curve or hillcrest. So the signs just fade into the scenery like "deer crossing" or "slippery when wet" signs.
On this particular road in Pendleton, I cannot recall that there are any signs, but considering there is a middle school only 2 miles back up the road, it was no surprise that there was a bus, just the location.
Very light traffic, straight, flat road, 2 lanes in each direction with a center lane left turn only. I'm coming along in the right lane going the speed limit, and see a car up ahead in a parking lot at place of business on the right starting to move towards the exit of the lot. Silly me, paying attention to stuff happening on the road around me. The vehicle comes to the exit of the lot onto the road, pauses as the driver turns their head both ways, then pulls right out in front of me as if they didn't see me or I wasn't there, causing excessive wear and tear on my braking system (not to mention my acid reflux!)
Only a couple of possibilites here.
They simply missed seeing me or they misjudged my approach speed and the capabilities of their vehicle.
Virtually 100% of the time, the driver of the other vehicle is on the phone, engaged in some conversation that somehow could not take place while they we sitting in the car in the parking lot.
And now we're talking about adding net access to cars??
I think we could hijack that infomercial slogan...
STOP THE INSANITY!
That is the exact same thing my wife said when the pastor asked her, "And do you take this.... man.... to be your lawful wedded husband...." :P
Drop the kid off at the side entrance to school. Pull out of drive on side road. Stop to pull out on highway in front of schools. School zone. 20 mph at 7:20 in morning. A car about 600 feet down road comes up on my rear. Comes up closer. Headlights disappear below my trunk lid. I check HUD and I'm going 35. There is always traffic out of middle school exit drive onto highway and turning left in front of me into middle school/high school back access. Often people going my direction stop to let people make left turn in front of us to help with traffic backup coming toward us.
I slow to 30. Then I pull over to let him pass. I flash to read his plates. I call the dispatch for the city we're in. They don't care.
Some people are incurable. He goes on up in car and turns onto the road toward the interstate ramps.
About once every two weeks someone on the highway not going to or from the schools does that because they don't like driving the school zone speed limit or 45 after the school zone.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Of course it does not relieve one of passing correctly and safely.
If someone from NM or can explain it in more technical terms please feel free. However it is highly intuitive and easy for a NON New Mexico licensed driver to get the hang of it. To me it seems to cut down the uncertainty of positioning for a pass.
1. Left. If someone is behind me on the highway and the road curves to the left, chances are they will pass me at that spot. Harmless,but interesting.
2. Ego. I see a lot of "Get out of my way" vs "Don't tell me what to do" behavior. I try to avoid being drawn in.
3. Loon. Sometimes I make like Thoreau and try to anticipate where the loon will surface. One thing for certain though, one always surfaces.
4. Chosen. Every day, I mean every day, a vehicle will choose me as a leader. Speeding up or slowing down makes no difference, nothing short of divorce gets rid of this pest.
5. Speed up. If I pass a slower vehicle on the highway, I take for granted there is over a 50% chance it will speed up. Next to tailgating this is my favorite :sick: personality disorder.
Interesting observation about the left curve. I always like those gentle curves that reveal the roadway ahead for a long distance - especially useful when attempting to pass big rigs as it negates the need for "peeking." Although, for those drivers who are prone to riding up on other vehicles while waiting to pass, I can see why a curve to the left is preferable to one to the right! Peeking will do no good if the road curves the other direction! :P
Granted, they would probably get so shot up by Alaskan rednecks that they would be indecipherable like all the rest of the signs, anyway. :sick:
A while back some posters were talking about deer + cars =s accidents and trouble.
Well yesterday, I heard on Fox tv news yesterday that about 200 people are killed each year by collisions with deers. That was a stat I never knew about but still seems sensible.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
I'm pretty picky about trying to maintain a safe following distance, so I always have to get far closer than I'd like when I'm waiting for an opportunity to pass. (Note that my definition of "far closer than I'd like" is about the same as a lot of people's "normal following distance," i.e., I'm not causing disappearing headlight syndrome).
A little advance warning in those spots would help a lot.
Do you suppose planners and transportation people from different states ever get together and have conferences to share these wonderful ideas some of them come up with? No? Didn't think so :P
You and your passenger(s) were most fotunate. It sounds like no one was injured and that is excellent. How was you truck after the collision?
Also, I remember I hit a deer in my patrol car with the push bumper. No damage to my car, but the next morning I drove through the same area on my beat, and the deer was gone. And I think you were correct, with the quotes, "those in need". I won't say more.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
I understand the bus definitely would have had the right of way, had it been moving. What I am not sure of, was it supposed to start moving ("on a collision course") once I was already in the intersection.
I may sound upset, but that does not mean I was necessarily right. I am in Minnesota, if that makes a difference.
Getting back to the bus, though. Were you in the process of making the turn when the bus got back on the road (was this bus pulled off at a stop?), you would have had right-of-way. If the bus had never left the road (so it was a curb-side stop), then it would have had right of way because it was occupying an on-coming lane (with a green light) that you had to cross in order to complete your maneuver. Right-of-way or no, though, if another vehicle wants it, it is best to just recognize that early and give it to them - saves time in the long run. So you did just fine!
I am having a hard time understanding why there was a conflict. I can see that you did not enter the intersection until you planned to make your left turn, but if the bus started moving prior to you turning across the oncoming lanes then it would have been a simple matter of waiting there, in the intersection, until the bus drove by and then completing the turn. If you entered the intersection on a green light, it is of no issue that you were forced to wait in order to complete the turn. So it sounds to me like you actually backed up to remove yourself from the intersection, which I would say is the wrong move.
This is a divided city street, 2 lanes in each direction, no dedicated left-turn lane. I start the left turn, cross into the rightmost oncoming lane, when the bus starts moving. Should I have anticipated this? Perhaps.
Whether it was a stop or a curb-side stop for the bus, I am not sure what the difference is. This was a regular "shelter"-style scheduled bus stop. There was no turn-off lane for that you sometimes see for buses on major thoroughfares.
As for having to back out (as the light was turning red), I am not sure I had a choice. I was on a collision cource with a slowly approaching bus, and could not go around it into the turn.
In today's paper was a brief item describing an accident in a local small town. Two teenagers were driving down a residential street when they saw two girls walking on the sidewalk. One of the girls was the passenger's sister.
The driver decided to impress the girls by having the car do a 180-degree turn in the street. He revved up the engine, accelerated and then pulled the handbrake...
...and ended up hitting the curb, jumping it and landing in a flower bed.
End result - two flat tires and one ruined front suspension. Not to mention two red-faced teenage boys, who just struck out with some girls.
Looking at it in terms of actual right-of-way, there are two scenarios at play - first, the bus was in an oncoming lane (albeit not moving) and you, as turning traffic, are required to yield to traffic in oncoming lanes. But, at intersections, one may not assume right-of-way unless it is "granted" and therefore is required to yield to traffic already in the intersection - this is why "wait in the intersection to make a left-hand turn" works. So, because you were in the intersection and actively making your turn, the bus driver should have yielded. In this case, I think the bus driver was the inconsiderate one because you were in the act of turning before the driver started the bus in motion and could easily have paused that action long enough for you to pass through. Had there been a collision though, I have a feeling you would have been found at least partially at fault, depending on who actually contacted whom.
As for having to back out, this is why people are supposed to move into the intersection at an unprotected left turn as soon as it's green (not far enough into the intersection to block oncoming left turns, but enough to clear the stop line and indicate your intention, WITH SIGNAL ON I hope). And not just once it's clear, but as soon as it's green.
That way, even if you don't get an opening before the light turns red, you're guaranteed your left turn after opposing traffic stops. If people don't move into the intersection like this, some busy intersections would get backed up indefinitely with people wanting to turn left.
So whether or not the bus was in the wrong, you should have been able to get through after the bus, if the light turned red.
Reminds me of a funny story from 2003 back in Ithaca NY. I was behind one car, both of us waiting to make an unprotected left turn into a shopping center at a busy intersection. It was green, and there was enough oncoming traffic such that the light would be red before we got a clear shot to turn left.
But the person in front of me simply would not move into the intersection. He sat there at the stop line, stubbornly refusing to budge. I gave the shortest, gentlest blip of my horn that I could, in case he had just dozed off. He moved up about 2 inches. I blipped the horn again. Similar response. Repeat a third time.
He never really moved into the intersection, but finally, by some miracle, we both made our left turn and parked. Then the guy decided to come over and confront me! It was a most hilarious situation. He asked why I'd beeped, and I explained in very calm/clear terms that he hadn't moved up into the intersection properly.
And then he took down my license plate and threatened to have me arrested!!!
What goes through some people's minds, I wonder? When they have no logical ground left to stand on, they have to find some other way to spout testosterone, even if on a completely absurd premise.
I talked to some friends about this later, and I was told that in some states, it's actually the law to pull forward into an intersection while awaiting a clearing to make an unprotected left turn. In NY, I don't know if it's the law, but it is definitely the norm and expected courteous/considerate behavior.
Here in Alaska, it is not law, but is common, courteous, and best practice. There are those, like anywhere else, that will not pull into the interesction though. Mostly this happens at partially-dedicated green turns, so one can look forward to getting this driver through the intersection on the next cycle, but every so often you will get someone doing this at a non-dedicated light. So far, the most stubborn I have seen a driver be is to wait a full 4 cycles before going. That time, there were two drivers that vacated the left lane, went around this driver, and waited in the intersection until the light turned so they could go. I bet that driver found it very frustrating, which is good, because at least he (it was a he) knew how the rest of us felt.
This intersection is one of those where, when busy, only one left turner makes it per cycle even if everyone is driving appropriately. :sick:
As far as deer, I remember listening to one of the AM stations last year when they were discussing car-deer accidents. There was a caller from up north who shared that they have found some cheap solution to the problem. Instead of incurring 3-5K in damages they mount some kind of bars on their trucks (about $300-$400) and don't worry about it anymore. I remember the words "... just stay straight and let' er fly". Cruel, but efficient, I guess.
Around the Puget Sound area, it seems like 2-3 cars will go through the left turn after it turns red. This is complicated by the fact that there are usually several oncoming cars going straight through the intersection that will run the red. Small wonder that my insurance rates jumped when I moved here from southern Oregon. :P
james