Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

redmaxx

It soooo pisses me off when people block me in. Just yesterday I'm in the right lane on a two lane road, behind a car and taking off from a green light. In the left lane is a red PT Cruiser, barely taking off. The car in front of me isn't doing much better. 65 MPH zone and a quarter of a mile later we're only doing 40 MPH. Since the car in front of me is widening the gap, I start moving a bit closer in anticipation of being able to pass and set the cruise for a smooth drive home. Just as the gap gets big enough and I put on my turn signal, I see the Cruiser furiously trying to catch up. I manage to fit through but the Cruise is right on my tail. And then to top it off, after I get my cruise set for 80, I see the Cruiser has gone back to blocking traffic in by speeding up and slowing down. I silently root for the cars that manage to squeeze through the small gaps that the Cruiser accidentally leaves every now and then.

Idiot.

redmaxx

People here lately have taken to slowing to as low as 30 and 40 MPH in a 65 when they see a police car. In about 75% of the cases they are even slamming on their brakes. And this is the people who were already going 5 under to begin with. But that is not the end of it. Do the police give chase? No. Would the cop go after someone that went by at 90-100 MPH? You bet your driver's license they would. So why is someone going 20+ over a concern but not 20 or more under? In the left lane! It is times like these that make me believe that police do have quotas, because the under-achievers here are every bit as dangerous.

redmaxx

I thought I had seen it all when I read the news of a Chandler cop going 100 MPH on city streets, but I guess not. A month or so back there was a county sheriff coming into town, really fast. Situation: Highway 347 comes into town, speed limit drops to 45 about 1/4-1/2 mile away from a controlled intersection. About 4-5 months ago a lady in a sedan was killed by an inattentive driver going 60 MPH through a red (what the heck was the lady thinking when she turned, no one will know). I go through the light at about 50 in the right lane when I look in my mirror there is a black cruiser coming up with it's lights going. In my estimation it was going 80-100 MPH, in the left lane. This is extremely dangerous, because ADOT did not offset the turn lanes, so when there are cars in both turn lanes, neither one can see what is coming. Thankfully, no one from the oncoming lanes were turning, but the cop couldn't have known that, since our direction's turn lane had a line of cars in it. However, the cop did fly right up on the bumper (within a few feet that is) of a car in the left lane, who took several seconds to wake up, slowly meander over to the middle lane, rinse repeat. And that was the last I saw of him. I turned off seeing him going 20-30+ MPH faster than the speed limit through several intersections.

ruking1

Mel Brooks in one of the movies he acted words to the effect: it's good to be the one that gives the tickets!

andre1969

to classify this one, but yesterday, somebody took a car and tried to use it to blow up the house two doors down from me!

I was at work and didn't actually see it happen, but here's what I can piece together from the neighbors. Yesterday, two men drove a car up to the vacant house two doors down, and parked behind it, real close to it, and near its outside oil tank. This house has been vacant for a couple years. A developer bought it back in 2005 and wanted to subdivide and put up 6 McMansions. Well, the ennironmental dept found out, declared a good chunk of its 4.28 acres as wetlands, and told the developer he could only put up 3 houses. Then our neighborhood got spot-zoned and down-zoned, and they re-zoned his parcel for 2 acres per house, which cut him down to two houses total. He gave up and put it on the market.

About a month ago, a church bought this place, and my understanding is that they were just going to use the house to hold their services. But then they started talking to the neighbors, asking where their property joined up, because they wanted to put in a parking lot. I'm sure the environmental department would just LOVE to hear this!

Anyway, the neighbor saw these two guys park the car and then walk away from it and walk up the street. Soon thereafter, my next-door neighbor (who lives between me and the vacant house) heard an explosion and saw a black cloud belch up into the sky, and drift over her back yard. She saw the fire behind the vacant house and immediately called the fire dept, which arrived very quickly. In the meantime, she said she heard a series of 12 or so explosions.

A cop came around today, investigating, and talking with the neighbors. He showed me the business card of a real estate agent and asked if I'd ever seen him before. I hadn't, and asked if that was the guy that sold the house. He said no, it was the guys who's car got burned up!

So, near as we can figure, this so-called "church" tried to burn down the house to collect on the insurance, or something like that. I imagine that if my neighbor wasn't home to call the fire dept, then the car would've caught the house on fire. I'm guessing they put the car up against the oil tank in the hopes that it would blow it up. Only problem is, I don't think heating oil really blows up, unless it's under pressure. It'll burn, but just sitting in a tank, I don't think it'll explode!

Anyway, I only saw the burnt-out hulk of the car from a distance. It looked like a current-gen Accord, but I could be wrong. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out! Hopefully no inconsiderate parkers decide to park a car outside any of the neighbors' houses and then blow them up!

jensad

Dear Redmaxx

I can relate to you concerns of the underachievers as I stopped and cited many slow moving drivers on the IS 80 and Nimitz Freeways in the SF Bay Area. I especially did not enjoy "escorting" them over from the fast lane to the "safety" of the right shoulder.

I found MANY of them were 1. unaware of their slow speed, and/or 2. scared as they drove on the freeway, or knew they were going to slow and (honest) did not know HOW to get over to a slower lane.

Some I asked the Dept Mtr Vehilces to re-test. Some were just dumb drivers, (not dumb people).

As to getting on it, yes indeed I chased many at close to 100 or over. Indeed we chased down a murder on IS 80 with the help of another CHP vehicle.

Chased a 16 yr old on his hot motorcycle thru town of Rodeo at 105 mph while his girl friend was on the back. Real scary as he got away in the dirt. However I had his license and contacted his mother who later told me on my recontact, she had SOLD HIS MACHINE. Proble solved.

Why don't we chased down the slower (rubberneckers) cars as we are lets say at an accident scene. Some reasons might include, we are busy doing the accident, taking care of injured/dead people, and/or waiting for a tow truck to get this mess taking off the freeway. One more reason might be, can't say your state, might be the fact that on a 7 PM to 3 AM shift, we may have depending on the night, six two- officer patrols for the entire area we were to patrol.

This is not really known that maybe on a Sunday shift, maybe five one officer cars for the whole Contra Costa county which was adjacent to the Oakland areas.

Finally let me say, there used to be and I am not sure today as I am retired and alive, (grateful grandfather) a workermen's compensation presumption that a HEART attack/condition for law enforecment and fire personnel.

I believe last year we lost about eight CHP officers in the No. Cal area due to shootings and getting run over.

Good luck to all and stay safe. I hope my rambling made sense.

jensad

xwesx

Whoa! That is an incredible story! Incredibly... scary... at that! Haha, maybe it will end up as a "Lifetime Original Movie" one of these years..... :P

Glad it worked out that the fire was contained. Had that happened here, half the region would have gone up in flames by now. It is so dry and windy this spring.

fintail

A Harley just drove by that was so loud I swear it shook my walls. I hope some airhead in a Lexus RX gives him a bump and a scrape.

snakeweasel

Just yesterday a RV dealership caught fire and produced enough smoke to close down the Interstate right at the beginning of rush hour. From what I heard that all started with a propane tank exploding

euphonium

suggest this topic is fed by those when only at work?

stever

I saw an idiot run a red light Saturday morning; immediately after blowing through the intersection, he turned left in front of traffic and zoomed into the Starbucks drive through.

Sorry, best I can do on a holiday weekend. :P

redmaxx

They gotta pay me to do something!

snakeweasel

suggest this topic is fed by those when only at work?

Not me I am working at a state agency that strongly monitors web access. If its not job related I lose access.

As for me this weekend was spent 1.) at Lake geneva and after that 2.) looking for my lost dog (darn dog just took off).

jensad

Dear snakeweasel

I am sitting here with my retreiver-lab next to me reading about your lost dog. I hope you find your dog. Mine took off as a puppy but fortunately a woman found her.

Now she is about 12 yrs old and has Cushing Disease but still as wonderful as only a gentle soul can be. Wife and family all love her.

Good luck to all and stay safe.

jensad

snakeweasel

I hope you find your dog.

Dog usually finds us. She always roams the neighborhood for 15-20 minutes then comes home. I just don't like her roaming, don't want her hit by a car and we have coyotes in the area (have seen them in my back yard).

One time we went to the woods and we walked about a mile or so into the woods and I lost her. Looked around that area for over an hour. Decided to go home and get some help finding here. Darn dog just went back to the car and waited for me.

stever

Come to think of it, I bet the guy had California plates, LOL.

oldfarmer50

Front page headline in my local paper: "Drivers known as hypermilers find ways to radically boost milage, though some sacrifice safety along the way"

Among the techniques these people use is shifting into neutral going down hills and tailgate tractor trailers to reduce wind resistance.

The article also mentions coasting down hills before starting the car and driving under the speed limit as a way to save gas.

I have just one question, ARE THEY NUTS!? It would be bad enough if they were the only cars on the road but to do these things in traffic is just looney.

I especially like the "drafters" who leave only a one second gap behind tractor trailers. I wonder who gets to scrape them off the bumper when they get spattered?

That's the problem with zealots, they can't see the forest for the trees.

imidazol97

Our local Daily Nothing had a short article and picture this morning about the wonderful high mileage cars. it showed a Prius dash with the high mileage of 11.97 mpg on the register. I can do better than that.

tallman1

Front page headline in my local paper: "Drivers known as hypermilers find ways to radically boost milage, though some sacrifice safety along the way"

That was an AP article so it was in a lot of papers. I did a search on AP's website and it gave the article as published in an Oregon paper: Hypermilers

As you can see, most of the techniques, like coasting, are for hybrids. Also, if you read the article, you'll see that most folks are aware of the issues in heavy traffic. Certainly not all people are sane though.

Coasting works in hybrids because the gas engine turns off. With gas engine manual transmissions, you can shift the car into neutral with the engine on. I'm not sure that it is legal in all states though. Shifting into neutral in an automatic is dangerous and not good for the transmission (so I've heard). Turning off a gas engine while moving??? Crazy. :confuse:

snakeweasel

While a vehicle coasting in nuetral isn't as dangerous, I still think it inhibits the forward motion of the vehicle and would make it more difficult if an evasive manuever needed to be performed if such an occurance happened while coasting down a hill.

Not only that but keeping it in gear (especially a lower gear) allows the engine to give resistance and act as a brake going down a hill.

elias

also, shifting into neutral when going down hill COSTS mpg instead of increasing it. the real hypermilers must know this already!
(leaving the car in gear downhill results in zero fuel usage. using neutral requires nonzero fuel usage.)

stever

It's taken me about a year to wrap my brain around that concept. :shades:

tallman1

I'm not sure my brain is there yet. Is he talking about hybrids only?

stever

Nope - when you coast in gear, the fuel injectors cut off fuel to the engine. The rotation of the tires keeps the rpms going on the engine.

If you coast in neutral, it'll take gas to keep the engine running.

Someone can probably explain it better, but I haven't seen the theory debunked yet. I'm not sure if my SUVs co-host Tidester believes it though. :-)

imidazol97

I'm not sure I can buy that coasting in drive gives better economy than coasting in neutral.

If I turn off my motor in N then shift to D, the motor will not start from the rolling car turning the engine. The motor has to be fed some fuel to keep it turning.

Coasting will require the same fuel being fed to the motor to keep it turning while coasting .5 miles to a stop sign, e.g.

I'm open to better explanations than I just made.

tallman1

Fascinating.

I wonder what the perfect combination would be if you were on a downhill incline that meant you had to use the accelerator slightly (because of the engine braking) to keep up the speed as opposed to coasting in neutral (no engine braking) and using very little gas.

Learn something new every day.

snakeweasel

leaving the car in gear downhill results in zero fuel usage

Huh? The engine is still running and using gas so how does it result in zero fuel usage?

stever

I told you it was a hard concept to wrap your head around. :-)

Here's a thread about it:

elias, "VW Passat TDI" #888, 7 Aug 2005 4:04 pm

sebring95, "VW Passat TDI" #891, 8 Aug 2005 9:58 am

And this thread is about gas engines:

elias, "2007 Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon" #1670, 21 Aug 2006 10:47 am

Where's Elias? He should be carrying the water on this one too. :shades:

snakeweasel

As far as I know all cars (with the exception of hybrids) keep fuel going to the engine at all times. I would like to see something official (i.e. not someone saying something on a thread) to say otherwise.

ruking1

Yes, the VW Jetta (platform) draws fuel/NO FUEL under certain operating conditions, i.e., long downhill descent. It is documented in the specific technical manuals, just not in plain English (this is technical stuff not marketing). The verification test is as easy as plugging into the code reading port (VAG.com) attached to a (laptop) computer (correct program of course) and you can see (graphically) the draw/NO DRAW of fuel. (REAL TIME)

Indeed VW does NOT even market the "NO" fuel draw on long descent. So truly if you wish to SEE, get a hold of some VW types, go to a GTG and arrange for a drive. Most will be happy to accomodate you.

elias

hi folks. i'm neither "official" nor a "hyper-miler" but have been observed to be officially hyper.
really, you can trust me: it's been verified countless ways - zero fuel is used in most/all modern fuel injected vehicles, as long as the vehicle is coasting-in-gear and above a certain threshold rpm & speed. this has been true for decades and is verified in countless owners manuals as well as manufacturer TSBs and by some folks who have disassembled ECM code. my 1989 iroc-z owner's manual mentioned it specifically.
The idea that fuel is always required to keep an engine turning is false - as long as there is sufficient kinetic/potential energy available & being used to turn the engine instead. Hooray for Isaac Newton!

tcp2

The TDI is a direct injection diesel engine and works differently than a regular gas engine. the amount of air going into it is not controlled(no butterfly plates) and the RPM are controlled only by fuel supply. That is why it can shut off fuel completely at zero throttle settings.

The tahoe/yukon have the ability to shut off fuel to certain cylinders (4 out of 8) for better fuel economy while cruising or descending. The vehicle is still running on its Idle circuit at that point.

Other than a few common-rail diesels and other vehicles with cylinder shutdown capability, when your foot comes off the gas the engine is always running on its idle circuit...using a small amount of fuel/air to keep turning. If the fuel were shutdown completely, you would be continuously "bump-starting" the vehicle and automatic transmissions don't like that. you're ride would be very jerky getting on and off the gas.

Here's a way to test your theory. Go down a long hill with a straight road and no traffic. Take your foot off the gas and just let the vehicle coast in drive. Notice how it feels. Turn off your ignition for a few seconds and feel the difference as you coast to a stop. You can put the transmission in neutral and restart before you coast to a stop, but you'll realize that the vehicle is running on it's idle circuit while coasting. (of course, do this at your own risk)

elias

No, don't do that test that tcp2 recommended. It's very dangerous and illegal to turn off ignition while moving,
unless maybe you are coasting into a parking-space.
Also, the transmission type has nothing to do with any of this. Auto trans cars are just as capable as manual trans cars of this simple and ancient fuel-saving technique.
The idea that only TDIs and other diesels can run downhill forever with zero fuel is also false. *MOST* fuel injected vehicles have been able to do this, for decades. Including brutish gassers like my 1989 iroc. I can almost believe that there is something too lame about tahoe/yukon which prevents them from doing this. fine, let's omit the new tahoe/yukon. with 89 iroc i could easily feel the point where the fuel was cut off completely due to the considerable engine-braking with that car - it would happen after about 2 seconds of "foot off gas pedal" when going downhill or coasting-in-gear above a certain RPM & speed - exactly as stated in the owners manual.

ruking1

One of the reasons I cite the TDI, is in fact I have seen it personally, both on my own and others' cars. (hooked to a computer obviously) I have also seen the technical references. On a practical basis, I have also experienced the better mpg's.

More importantly however is the practical aspect. The mpg results are more dramatic on the turbo equipped vehicles. Most normally aspired gassers when they get to altitude have a significant mpg penalty (and power loss), which is truncated on a turbo equipped vehicle (gasser or diesel). There are also less turbo equipped gassers. So they are not common. So when you cut loose on a long down hill and do a unleaded regular fuel fill (indirect measure) the average between the loss (going up long up hill) and long downhill (no fuel draw) is commonly LESS MPH. In a turbo diesel, the MPG gain (or no loss) is noticeable (better mpg).

stever

Haven't had much time to search Snake. Found this from Road and Track (toward the bottom) and this from Popular Mechanics (3rd question).

tallman1

Thanks for those links, Steve. The whole R & T article is good... it also confirms the debunking of the windows up/AC on myth.

I suppose we're getting way off the Inconsiderate Drivers track but I do appreciate having the chance to learn more about the coasting in neutral issue. So I have a year to be comfortable with this, right???

stever

I'm sure a lot of people think that the hypermilers failure to stomp on the gas at the green and slam on the brakes at the red is very inconsiderate.

Then there are guys like me who watch the pedestrian crossing lights so we can coast to the light and then ease on through the green without having to completely stop.

Meanwhile we pass the driver who blew by us half a block away in his rush to grind his brake pads down a little. :shades:

snakeweasel

really, you can trust me:

Usually when someone tells me that that is a strong signal not to.

Can you provide a link? Until then its just something I have read on the internet.

oldfarmer50

"...I'm sure...people think that hypermilers...are very inconsiderate..."

How would you feel about someone "drafting" a few feet from your bumper at 65?

BTW, snake, thanks for adding the "P" to hyPermiler.

fezo

OK, here's a question as long as we are hypermiling along. I'm ready to accept the concept of using no gas when costing in gear though it's gonna take some time before that feels right.

What do you do when you actually DO hit a stop light? Is there something to be gained by throwing it into neutral or are you just as well off leaving it in drive? 50 % of my vehicles (that equals one of them) would have to deal with this. The other is a stick so that's always gonna be in neutral at a light.

tallman1

That's one thing I DO know, even though I only drive manuals. It is hard on the automatic transmission if you shift to neutral at a light. Extra wear and tear and no lubrication when in neutral. There were several mentions of this in some of Steve's previous links he supplied on the coasting issue.

british_rover

Some of the newer automatics shift into neutral on their own when you come to a stop.

jipster

throwing it into neutral or are you just as well off leaving it in drive?

What are your engine rpm's in drive as opposed to neutral. Choose the lower if you're looking to save a few pennies.

stever

If you hit the light early, you can turn the engine off. Then when the light changes and you are sitting there grinding away, you'll get popular fast. :shades:

More "no gas/coasting" links for the weekend lull:

"For over-run conditions (closed throttle and coasting), a special circuit in some versions of the ECU shuts off the injection pulses when the engine speed is above a threshold level."

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/ecu.htm

"OVERRUN CUTOFF VALVE
A) This component curtails fuel delivery during coasting/deceleration conditions. The overrun cutoff valve will direct excess air into the intake manifold to stop fuel delivery when conditions of closed throttle, warm engine, and engine speed over a preset rpm are met (either coasting or decelerating). AKA) Decel Valve, Coasting Cutoff Valve"

http://www.forparts.com/fi.htm

"One interesting note about the fuel curve: the injection pump has an overrun fuel cut off. This means that when the accelerator linkage is in the idle position and the engine speed is above idle (i.e. when coasting), the pump cuts off fuel injection, much like a newer EFI equipped car."

http://www.bimmers.com/02/faq/engine.html

210delray

I've always read that it's better (for the tranny) to simply leave the automatic transmission in drive at a light.

For really long lights, when I'm in the through lanes with stopped traffic all around me (including especially my rear end), I will turn off the engine, put the tranny in neutral, and keep my foot firmly on the brake. When I see the cross traffic light changing to yellow (or the left turn light, if applicable), I'll restart the car and put it back into drive.

But shutting off the engine while moving can be dangerous and is generally illegal.

trimaster

Some of the hypermiling tips are a tad extreme imo. People might do it for a little while, but old habits die hard...

If it gets THAT bad, why not just trade your car in for something a tad more economical?

oldfarmer50

"...why not trade in your car for something a tad more economical?..."

Like a horse or maybe a skateboard. I'm less afraid of the boy racers or the 80 year old slow pokes than I am of someone with something to "Prove".

Speaking of slow pokes, I was traveling on a 3 lane (one way) highway today and had to slam on my brakes to avoid a woman driving 40mph in 65mph traffic...in the middle lane.

Cars were swerving around her on both sided and I was just waiting for an accident to happen.

akangl

"...why not trade in your car for something a tad more economical?..."

Like a horse

I own 4 horses, there is NOTHING economical about them!

euphonium

I own 1 horse - a 66 Mustang GT.

akangl

I own 1 horse - a 66 Mustang GT.

I'm sure that variety is FAR cheaper than the ones I have,lol. Probably easier to clean up after too! :sick: