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I'm just helping the other driver enjoy a safer drive.
I love recycling the LLC arguments against LLC'ers. It's amazing how now all the LLC supporters are switching to similar argument made by speedsters in defense of LLC'ers speeding up and passing me.
:P
Yes, and if you were driving at 55 mph and something happens that is so close that you barely miss it, you would have hit it if you were going 65. And the same goes for 45mph, and 35mph, and so on, and so on, etc, etc, et al.
The only way for anyone to be safe in an argument like that is to simply *not drive*. So the question really is why your standards should be the standards for all, as opposed to my standards.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sounds like an example of floating anger. Someone is associating LLCs with their irritation about speed limits.
>Of course, that means the LLC is now the faster driver who is now rapidly approaching my rear bumper. Should I follow the advice posted by the LLC supporter here and then tap my brake as many have stated they do?
This sounds hypocritical: someone who disdains people not going as fast as the poster wishes in "his" lane is now slowing down intentionally becoming one of those for whom he expresses so much anger.
But catharsis is good for most people, so keep on.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This more or less worked okay for everyone until someone who belonged in Group 1 decided to cross over and mingle with the Group 2 people. Orderly movement up until that point turned somewhat chaotic with tailgating, brake lights going on, sudden swerving from one lane to another and with both groups getting bunched together. Order was restored eventually when the misguided groupie moved back to where he belonged.
Personally, I'm a Group 1 type since I'd rather cruise along by myself without the worry of impeding anyone else s progress but to each their own, just be aware of the type of driver you are and your effect on others around you.
And the speedster argument is that anyone going slower than they are is a jerk, and so they go around them. Which is exactly what you're saying in defense of LLC'ers.
Funny that. How it's 'being a jerk' to go slower than you. The only difference is that you'd like to go 55/65 mph... and the other person wants to go 75 and up.
It ain't so fun seeing the LLC argument now, is it?
:P
Actually, it's more of a 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you' deal. Others have spoken how they brake for tailgaters. So having engineered a situation where those that act in such a manner (LLCers) are now faced with actually *BEING* tailgaters, should they not wish others to unto them what they do to others?
Of course, the answer is usually no.
Which makes it a hypocritical position. Of which my sometimes dickish actions highlight.
(Though, in this case, I've never actually brakechecked anyone. I'm asking the typical LLCer if I should start, as they do. Simply an exercise in seeing who will advocate doing as they do.)
Next day, same commute - same distance. But now the cruise control was set for 65 mph. Result was 31 mpg (well, anywhere from 31 mpg on up to almost 32).
Each time, the cruise control was never deactivated (it was early enough in the morning that there wasn't enough cars on the road to interfere)
This was tried for twice a week for a month, on the same stretch of road, going the same direction. Each time, the results were nearly the same. Plus, I tend to frequent the same gas station on a regular basis, so there was no change in the type of gasoline used (Shell - premium unleaded).
It's my observation now that after watching how some admitted speeders are aggressive at trying to twist the statements of posters into strange justifications for being an aggressive driver, and now admitting trying to bait people into situations they should not be put into such as making them into tailgaters, we can see the strange mind's warps of the people who speed and are aggressive drivers.
We see here aggressive to the point of paranoia -- because most people in a hurry who are wanting to speed and get somewhere don't slow down and try to cause an accident by forcing people who most likely don't intend to speed to speed up to try to get away from someone who slows down in front of them, intentionally, and tries to make them race with him. Is the racing result an attempt at psychological satisfaction in some way? Or just a sign of insecurity on the aggressive tailgating speeders' parts?
Those people in a hurry find an opportunity to get around and go merrily on their way down the pike speeding and getting somewhere in a hurry.
Comparing the posting twists and the twists of morality and safety on the roadway gives a clear parallel. :surprise:
May God protect the victims on the road who end up in the left lane belonging to a speeder who is having a bad day and wants someone on whom to take out the stress of the speeders' insecurities. :sick:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
All states have speed limits. Most states have some kind of law against LLC'ing, be it "keep right except to pass" or "slower traffic keep right."
My fiancee prefers to drive in the left lane. But when someone wants to go faster than she does, she will move right at the earliest safe opportunity and let them pass. No claims of superiority by breaking one law to enforce another, just give and take.
Can't we all just get along?
Gearing maybe. Certainly not good aerodynamics. My wife's 2007 Sonata "mommy car" has better aerodynamics (.30) than your GTI (.32). And it gets a lot better FE at 55 than 75 (or at 65 for that matter).
What are the GTI's RPMs at 55 vs. 75? For what you say to be true, the RPMs must be lower at 75 vs. 55. Significantly lower in fact, to overcome the greater wind resistance at 75.
No, unfortunately it appears we can't, because some drivers feel they are more important than other drivers. Whether than means riding someone's bumper, honking, flashing lights, making obscene gestures etc. at someone because they are driving at the speed limit, or camping in the passing lane with the intention of blocking others from getting by them.
I hope this does not sound confusing. Here is an example, 03 Jetta 1.8T vs 1.9 TDI. I think you would agree that in terms of the aerodynamics, they are EXACTLY the same. Fuel economy.gov pegs the 1.8T (premium gasser) @ 27.5 mpg real world. It pegs the 1.9T TDI (ULSD) @ 46.5 mpg. The TDI posts 69% better fuel mileage. Now I have not done this with the gasser, but @ a steady (freeway) 75 mpg with bursts to 80/85 mph, the TDI can post 59 mpg. There is no doubt in my mind the same Jetta model only 1.8T will almost certainly post far less mpg.
Please don't put words in my mouth since I have never defended LLCing. All I have done is tried to mitigate some peoples reaction to the left lane being blocked (legally or not). The actions you describe are undefendable.
I do find it ironic that you are defending LLCing (your actions of slowing down to block the lane) all the while complaining about others doing it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Now, if some car had a super-tall gear that would kick in at 75 and not at 55, allowing the engine to turn at about the same RPM at 75 vs. 55 or maybe even slower, then yes, it might be possible to get better FE at 75 than 55. Although there is greater wind resistance at 75 to overcome.
If someone wants to think that their car gets better FE at 75 than 65 or 55 to help justify going faster, that's their business. It hasn't worked that way for any car I've owned or driven in the past 40 years. But I've never owned or driven a VW turbodiesel, either.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Or do your entire tank of commuting going 55mph and then another tank going 65mph and see how it goes.
Officials conducted the emphasis patrols between July 15 and Aug. 7 — and issued 63 speeding tickets, according to a press release from the Washington Traffic Safety Commission.
In addition to speeding drivers, officers also arrested three people on felony warrants, seven more on misdemeanor warrants and made one arrest for driving under the influence. Officers also issued a reckless driving citation, four for cell phone infractions, five seat belt tickets, and identified 12 uninsured motorists and six suspended or revoked license infractions.
No citations were issued for driving in the Left lane.
Officers from the Castle Rock, Kelso, Longview and Woodland police departments, the Cowlitz County Sheriff's office and the Washington State Patrol took part in the emphasis patrol. The extra patrols were paid for with a grant aimed at reducing traffic accidents and fatalities.
According to the traffic commission, more than 40 percent of all traffic fatalities involve a speeding driver. :mad:
Daily News 13 Aug 11
"According to the traffic commission"
According to my mother, when I was little, santa claus, the easter bunny,and the tooth fairy would on occasion leave me gifts...
Public funds wasted by overpaid enforcers who are in cahoots with our crooked insurance cabal...
Had one guy give me the finger as I was on an on-ramp...Suzuki Forenza...merged onto 405 at about 40 and then got into the middle lane where traffic had to dodge him and whizz by on both sides. I think he was mad as I was following closely and motioning him to move on. Note to Suzuki driver: if a nearly 50 year old Mercedes is being held up by your driving, you are going too slow. You are supposed to merge onto a highway at a speed comparable to the flow of traffic, not 20 under the limit. Such people need to be sent to re-education camps...
Also saw an old guy in a DTS who was loafing along in the right lane about 1/4 mile ahead of me. He made a random lane change into the middle lane, and dozens of cars had to pass him, and he too was being passed on both sides. Even I passed him. I don't see the logic behind such driving, other than being on a suicide mission perhaps.
Move over.
So what does that comment have to do with the topic?
Quit changing the subject. Move over. Its the law.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.100
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/information/video/Keep_Right.asx
I think that's the basic point your trying to express, but I could be wrong. Yet it holds the core of the speedster philosphy, ie: putting people into situations they should not be put into. Every speedster argument is usually about how LLCers put speedster into situations they should not be put into. Whereas the LLC argument is that the speedster should obey the speed limit and stay behind them (as the LLCer is going the speed limit).
And we all recognize that the speed limit is only the maximum allowable speed. So going 5 under it in front of a LLCer puts them in a situation where they must now choose to follow their professed ideology or betray it. And in my experience, most LLCers will betray it.
That's, in my book, makes those LLCers that I've observed doing this rank hypocrites.
No aggressive driving was used to pass *them*, no tailgating, no cutting them off, nothing. Simply a quick pass - far enough out not to tailgate, and waiting long enough to move back over afterwards with good distance. But the kicker is that sometimes I'll take my foot off the gas and gradually slow down to a speed slightly slower than the LLCer I passed.
And that, suddenly, is highly inappropriate. For now, the LLCer is in a situation where someone is blocking their ability to drive the speed they want.
Egads, the horror! How evil! With that said, now the LLCer speeds and passes on the right.
I get a grin at seeing the rank hypocrisy inherent in that. And considering the number of posts generated about it, methinks it's causing some heads to asplode.
:lemon:
Indeed I said that from the git go. Indeed @ lower speeds (lower than 70 mph) in a commute I get WAY lower mpg aka 48-52 mpg vs the 62 @ 70 mph.
Again keep in mind the aero dynamics are completly the same.
There's a difference between rush hour traffic going 55mph because it's not consistent, as compared to a consistent 55mph on open road. However on open road I think the couple of folks posting here that like to speed wouldn't be able to go 55mph on open road for a couple of hundred miles to really test it...I think they'd go crazy watching the speedo showing 55mph and having folks pass them :P
It's funny that some in a nation founded in opposition to unjustifiable and reckless taxation would later support said taxation when their faculties diminish to the point where 60mph seems scary fast.
Law enforcement leadership and highly paid "traffic engineers" alike need to be called before a public tribunal to defend their policies.
Those of us reading your posts noticed this the very first time you posted it, let alone the tenth.
If both of these hypothetical drivers were more interested in driving (and being considerate while doing so), there would be no situation... ever. Actually, if even one of them had this mindset, there still would not be an issue.
I am glad it amuses you so much, but it sure doesn't make a whole lot of sense to the rest of us, regardless of the lane in which we prefer to travel.
Blasphemy!!! What the.... Fintail, do you actually work for a living or something? :P
I didn't say WHAT kind of hand gestures. I might be doing something as kind as a peace sign!
Not necessarily true. The top 100 "speeders" might be all driving exactly the same speed of say, 80 MPH. Therefore no one is passing anyone in the passing lane. However, if the guy behind me decides to go 85, that's my cue to move over to the right or speed up, I regularly scan my rear view mirror and can easily and readily identify when I'm being caught up to and gained on ahead of time.
Why should they break the law in order to get out of your way.
Well, they will be breaking the law if they are camping out in the left lane impeding traffic or if they simply are passing with too little authority and taking too long. In this case breaking the speed law is the lesser of two evils because LLCing and Impeding traffic causes anger, resentment, frustration, road rage, traffic congestion, more danger, more accidents, and generally a lot more chaos than does breaking the speed limit momentarily, which is done routinely anyway.
Speed limits are not a general rule unless set my accepted methods and standards such as a traffic engineering survey and setting the limit according to the 85th percentile measured speed.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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If you concede that speeding decreases your chances of being rearended, I'll concede it MAY increase your odds of rear-ending someone. However, that is with the caveat that other people don't drive like me. If everyone drove like me then no one would get rear-ended, period, end of story!
Part of that has to do with LLC's and impeders, and part of that has to do with slow pokes on the road. I'd never be caught dead LLCing. My ego isn't harmed if some fool in a Camaro thinks he's faster than me. I also never find myself being a complete and utter slow poke on the road, although I'm not always in the top 20%. This is why slow drivers pose a big threat and danger on the road, and tend to get in MORE accidents than the fast drivers. Statistics do back this up. There's a lot of reasons slow drivers might get in more accidents besides being rear-ended a lot. Slow drivers tend to be the one's on their cell phones, texting, doing makeup, or generally distracted or zoned out. The cars I see weaving in and out of traffic getting around LLC's are the ones paying attention to what they are doing, and are therefore safer. Distracted driving is the problem, not speeding.
Agree it's better not to let emotions get involved in your driving, but although you might not call LLCer's the cause, they are certainly the aggravators. No reason to aggravate people simply because you think your Johnny Law. LLCers tend to like to escalate the situation rather then diffuse it.