Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

fintail

And at the same time, it is a character flaw to intentionally seek rage in others, whether by LLCing or getting revenge. When you have an intent to create rage and your wishes are met, you indeed own fault.

andres3

Bristol West is a Farmers Insurance Exchange company that specializes in high risk/sub standard drivers.

I didn't know those two entities were related in any way, shape, or form. However, Bristol West was underwritten by Coast National Insurance. Makes sense though, since both Farmers and Bristol West have shown unethical, untrustworthy, and highly questionable bad faith behavior.

I had not idea Bristol West was a substandard insurer :P :mad: If I'd of known that, I'd of never got insurance from them. I only chose them originally because the Eastwood agent said they were the cheapest for me. They won the price quote war so I went with them. I suppose being under 25 automatically places you in a high risk pool despite a perfect record (another insurance scam).

Perhaps someday, a long way away you will qualify for a Preferred Risk Company.

LOL. You honestly believe what you say? For someone with no at-fault accidents involving another vehicle besides my own in 16 years + of driving, I can say no insurance company has ever turned me down. I cancelled Bristol West, and went with AIG for one year. At the end of the year AIG tried to sneak in a rate increase along with a change to 6 month policy. I told them go to hell and I did not accept their renewal terms (prior to bail out city; which I could have predicted based on their poor customer service as well). Switched to much cheaper Geico, which was excellent in dealing with a windshield chip claim. Got rear-ended by someone with State Farm, excellent claim paying ability as I got a check upon inspection for all the damages in less than 4 days after the accident in my hand at my place of work delivered right to me in person (night and day to Bristol West, and I was Bristol Wests INSURED, I was only a CLAIMANT againt State Farm, not even a customer, but was treated 1,000,000 times better.

I then figured out Geico was too pricey, and switched to Mercury a year later and have looked back since the past 8 or so years. Mercury is less costly, and they handle claims fairly and reasonably (not quite as fast as State Farm or Geico I think, but still good). I consider auto insurance to be overpriced, even with Mercury who's way cheaper than everyone else for a preferred driver, but most people would say my insurance is cheap.

Thus, they can't be faulted for not believing one of their sub standard insureds.

Yes they can be faulted. They had no cause or reason not to believe me. The car was only insured 2 months prior, and photographs were taken of it in good condition by the agent. A police report had been made the night of the theft, promptly reported immediately, and they knew that from the beginning. They freaking arrested a guy when they recovered the car, what more do they want?!!! After knowing all that, they still seemed shocked "Oh, you DID MAKE A police report" everytime it came up, as if that was new news, when really all they do is stall for stalling's sake; they don't care what the facts of the claim are, they have a standard MO to deny and/or delay ALL claims.

The difference was, Farmers at least corrected the mistake, made up for it, sent my Parents a reimbursement check for overpaid premiums based on false claims history for the last 2 years, and issued me a letter stating on the claim that the "payment was made in error." Which allowed me to qualify for insurance with any company, including super preferred risk since I had a perfect record (I was in college at the time). Bristol West admitted an error was made finally after complaining 10 times and to the Dept. of Insurance, but they never "made up for it," like Farmers did.

So you were saying something about a long way away I'll qualify for a preferred risk company? Who might that be? Do Geico and Mercury not qualify? What about AIG?

andres3

to stop will be a lot safer driving at high speeds than someone who proclaims that statistics show that driving faster is safer.

It does have a lot to do with avoiding more dangerious accident prone slower drivers by not being around them for long, by going faster makes you safer. You spend less time around said accident prone drivers.

If everyone drove equally fast, it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

Kirstie_H

If it's intentional, yes. That's just as much of a character flaw as acting out on a road rage experience. I'm speaking of the idea that others failing to behave the way you want them to causes an individual to experience road rage, or gives license to behave aggressively based on the simple fact that others aren't driving according to your wishes.

I'm not talking about instances in which one driver is deliberately aggravating another.

It is always unwise to knowingly aggravate others, but I can assure you that the defense to any violent act that contains, "well, he/she aggravated me so much that I didn't have a choice..." would not only fail to fly as a legal defense, it'd personally make the individual look pompous and self-centered.

andres3

Of course, that means the LLC is now the faster driver who is now rapidly approaching my rear bumper. Should I follow the advice posted by the LLC supporter here and then tap my brake as many have stated they do?

I just want to be the best LLC I can be... to other LLCs, that is.

That post 17306 will go down as a classic in Edmunds' forums history!

andres3

kept going faster than them they wouldn't try to get infront of you.

Wow! Your own words. I can use them against you. Are you sure you wrote it, or did I, towards you?

sounds like something I've told you before.

Be more considerate, go faster and no one will try and get in front of you.

:P

andres3

Not a brake check

Brake checks seem very immature and dangerous to me. Never called for.

All it does is escalate things. When I see a brake checker, all I think about is how wide the shoulder on the left of the fast lane is so I can pass them swiftly (if there's already traffic to the right impeding me).

Kirstie_H

Sorry, but once you start rolling together aggressive, illegal, and dangerous activity as a defense against another dangerous activity, I've wiped you off my credibility list.

There are arguments to be made against LLC-ing and some very good points have been made by both sides here, but that last point crosses a line.

I don't think any further conversation down this particular road is going to benefit the community, nor is anyone entrenched in a particular POV likely to change their entire mindset based on continuing this line of conversation - plus, it's getting a little too personal. It'd be nice if we could move along to other inconsiderate drivers and driving habits now.

andres3

According to the traffic commission, more than 40 percent of all traffic fatalities involve a speeding driver.

Thanks for making my point! Since most everyone is speeding on the road, 40% seems awfully ultra low!

Whereas 90% of the drivers out there speed all the time in any given place out there, you'd expect that rate to be involved in 90% of accidents involving fatalities. Since it's less then half that, it shows that slower drivers are indeed more dangerous and therefore in more danger, as the meager 10% cause 60% of the fatalities in my example! Given how many people speed on the road, be honest, don't you think the speed kills mantra spoken by the uneducated would be more like 90% of fatalities?

Change the wording to read Fatalities directly and mostly caused by speeding, and you'll get all the way down to 1%.

andres3

And that, suddenly, is highly inappropriate. For now, the LLCer is in a situation where someone is blocking their ability to drive the speed they want.

I love your methodology. I think I might adopt it. Give an LLC a bit of the taste of their own medicine.

However, I'd be the one starting to be a hypocrite if I did that, since I've argued that "speeding" saves me time, and I don't have time to waste as it is more valuable then the extra few drops of fuel used to go fast.

andres3

Personally I'd be in favor of doubling every speeding fine on the highway and reducing overall taxes,

wow, and I'm for eliminating speed limits all together.

I'm also for making the fine for LLCing 1,000,000 dollars (why stop at doubling?). Let's just make violaters indentured servants for the rest of their lives! :P

Kirstie_H

Um... I'd hate to have to change this topic title to "Inconsiderate Members." I politely requested that we move on to other "inconsiderate" issues. Please be respectful of that request.

We have a perfectly good discussion about Traffic Laws & Enforcement for conversations debating the merits of speed limits and how traffic laws are or are not enforced.

snakeweasel

Not necessarily true. The top 100 "speeders" might be all driving exactly the same speed

Very hard to achieve and rarely is the top speeder matched.

Well, they will be breaking the law if they are camping out in the left lane impeding traffic or if they simply are passing with too little authority and taking too long.

If they are actively passing someone then they are not breaking the law. If you come up to someone who is passing and you don't think they are going fast enough so what. Just sit back, relax and wait for them to finish. You will enjoy life a lot more.

causes anger, resentment, frustration, road rage, traffic congestion, more danger, more accidents, and generally a lot more chaos

ANd none the fault of the LLCer, the "speeder" chooses those feelings and is sole responsibilty of he who gets that way. If the speeder would just relax and wait for the proper opportunity then there wouldn't be any real issues.

I mean really, if you are doing 85 MPH and get stuck behind an LLCer doing 65 for 5 minutes you lose what 90 seconds of time? I have held my breath for longer than that.

snakeweasel

Ah thats it. If you agree with it then its a general rule, if you don't then its not.

Sorry but by being a codefied law the speed limit is a general rule.

snakeweasel

If you concede that speeding decreases your chances of being rear ended, I'll concede it MAY increase your odds of rear-ending someone.

Drop the "may" and you have a deal.

However, that is with the caveat that other people don't drive like me. If everyone drove like me then no one would get rear-ended, period, end of story!

My what a self serving sentence. I would agree with that if no one ever drove on rain slick highways or on snow or ice (sometimes ice isn't even visible) or on loose gravel or if everyone drove with real long intervals between them and the car infront of them (but you would complain about that.

This is why slow drivers pose a big threat and danger on the road,

Is it the slow drivers or the fast drivers? The laws of physics would suggest the fast drivers are.

and tend to get in MORE accidents than the fast drivers. Statistics do back this up.

Sorry the statistics do not back that up.

Slow drivers tend to be the one's on their cell phones, texting, doing makeup, or generally distracted or zoned out.

Really? Someday we should take a drive down a city interstate at such a speed that we get passed by as many cars that pass us. I would guess that the number of people that pass us doing those things would be about the same as the number of people we pass.

The cars I see weaving in and out of traffic getting around LLC's are the ones paying attention

First of all doing all of that is dangerous. Secondly I see people doing that all the time while yakking on cell phones and looking down (texting? Reading something?) or talking to (looking at) their passenger.

snakeweasel

And at the same time, it is a character flaw to intentionally seek rage in others, whether by LLCing

Thats a big assumption to think that someone being in the left lane is trying to get someone into a rage.

snakeweasel

It does have a lot to do with avoiding more dangerious accident prone slower drivers

OK how do we avoid the accident prone fast drivers?

If everyone drove equally fast, it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

Good make it happen slow down to a safer speed.

snakeweasel

Sure you can use them against me if you can, however use them in context so I don't have to call you on it.

And no its not something you told me before.

andres3

Well first off you admit that you slow down to a slower speed than what they are doing. They are not speeding up to get around you but to maintain their original speed.

Isn't that what an LLC does every time. They get in the left lane and go slower than most everyone else that is already using that lane to pass wants to use it for. The faster car is not speeding to get in front of you or get passed you, but to simply maintain their original speed! (Whatever that original speed might be, more power to them).

I don't see how just because someone goes SLOWER than the speed limit it makes it wrong and inconsiderate to make someone slow down behind you, whereas just by going the speed limit now you are being considerate and correct by blocking faster traffic.

The truth and the FACT of the matter is you are being inconsiderate when you impede/block/slow down traffic in any way, shape, or form, regardless of speed, when other options are available (like yielding to faster trafffic).

andres3

I think we need a topic called Inconsiderate Insurance Companies, since they seem to vastly outnumber the considerate companies.

andres3

If they are actively passing someone then they are not breaking the law. If you come up to someone who is passing and you don't think they are going fast enough so what. Just sit back, relax and wait for them to finish. You will enjoy life a lot more.

I would define actively passing as passing with at least 3 MPH greater speed. Passing someone going 64.9 MPH by driving 65.0 MPH because the speed limit is 65 MPH is unacceptable. In this case, you should either not pass, or you must break the general rule on speeding as no laws are always black and white. :P
Murder is allowed if you fight for your country in war, or in self defense, for example.

I mean really, if you are doing 85 MPH and get stuck behind an LLCer doing 65 for 5 minutes you lose what 90 seconds of time?

Let me send you a bill at dream team lawyer hourly rates for that 90 seconds then everytime you block me on the road. Also, it isn't so much frustrating that I waste 90 seconds, but that it's usually entirely avoidable if you'd of just not got in the left lane and camped. Sometimes, there's more than 2 lanes and you still see LLCers with 3 wide open lanes to the right of them.

andres3

First of all doing all of that is dangerous. Secondly I see people doing that all the time while yakking on cell phones and looking down (texting? Reading something?) or talking to (looking at) their passenger.

Wow, really? There are people capable of multi-tasking LLC avoidance manuevers, all the while maintaining a fast speed, avoiding slow pokes in the right lane, and yapping on the cell phone while reading the Wall Street Journal?

I don't see many of them in CA. Most drivers here seem to require 100% of their attention on driving. If they were really behaving so dangerously, then they'd be getting in accidents FREQUENTLY and probably have their licenses revoked and insurance coverage CANCELLED.

Hmmm... all the time's my wife and/or I have been rear-ended (except once) they have all been Uninsured! I think that's a 3 to 1 ratio in favor of uninsured drivers causing accidents in my lifetime including my wife's lifetime driving experience.

P.S. All the times I was rear-ended, I wasn't even moving. So going 0 MPH is the slowest you can go and the MOST dangerous in my humble opinion and experience! I've never been hit while driving 100 MPH! Heck, I've never been in an accident with another vehicle where I was moving now that I think of it. I've been rear-ended by my count, officially, 4 times, but only 2 times that caused noticeable or visible damage. I've been sideswiped when parked (by someone in an SUV backing out of their parking space next to me, and turning too sharply too soon before clearing my vehicle). Come to think of it, a speeder has never done me any harm.

Now my wife, she's been slammed into at a good speed twice, once enough to total a 2 year old car with 24K miles on it (that was serious). I don't think speeding was the issue though, I think it was simply mostly due to his not paying attention, following too closely perhaps, but nothing to do with speed (Yes yes, if he was going 5 MPH he'd of been able to stop, but at the same time, if I was driving his car at 120 MPH I'd of been able to avoid her car in the same circumstances). Still, I don't think any impacts were at over 45 MPH.

fintail

Of course it is not a universal, but it does happen, some here even admit it is their mindset.

Ignorance is no excuse, either.

fintail

Road rage takes two people. One is always guilty, often both. If people would just evolve enough to adopt lane discipline, and check their mirrors before lane changes, I will wager a huge amount of money that road rage incidents would fall tremendously. I'll say this, I have never seen a road rage case on a European highway, where drivers are more alert and lane discipline actually means something. Ignorance isn't a legal defense or an excuse, either. Both sides need to take accountability.

andres3

I'd agree with that 100%.

No one becomes road raged for no reason. Some people might have a shorter fuse than others, but that fuse has to be lit my someone in order to be dangerous.

bobw3

It's funny to me that those that complain of people haning out in the left lane that they don't move to the right, but if you're driving like you should, then you, the speeder, should be driving in the right lane except to pass. If you're in the right lane like you should be, what does it matter that someone is in the left lane? Unless you're driving in the right lane, see a guy in the left lane, and then you change lanes to get behind him??? That seems like strange driving to me.

It's also funny to me that the agressive posters here also sound like the aggressive drivers aka speeders.

Personally I just take me time, drive in the right lane.

andres3

If you have LLC in left lane, and slow poke in middle lane, and super slow poke in right lane, if you just finished passing another vehicle using the left lane, sure you can get back into the middle or right, but why? There might be a whole block of more slow guys coming up, so sometimes you have to stay left until you pass a whole block of cars, and an LLC prevents that. The LLC is probably the reason why there is a mindless pack of cars following the "leader" that is going slow.

snakeweasel

Isn't that what an LLC does every time.

Nope, LLC's usually don't race round people then go slower than the person they just passed.

I don't see how just because someone goes SLOWER than the speed limit it makes it wrong and inconsiderate to make someone slow down behind you

It is inconsiderate when that someone behind you was just recently ahead of you.

Also can I quote you on this next time you complain about ppeople driving slower than you?

snakeweasel

I would define actively passing as passing with at least 3 MPH greater speed. Passing someone going 64.9 MPH by driving 65.0 MPH because the speed limit is 65 MPH is unacceptable.

Why? It will only take a few minutes for the pass to be complete at that speed difference. Just relax.

Murder is allowed if you fight for your country in war, or in self defense, for example.

Neither of those examples are murder.

Let me send you a bill at dream team lawyer hourly rates for that 90 seconds then everytime you block me on the road.

Sure but I will only pay you for what your time on the road its worth and rounded to the nearest 1/4 hour. So 90 seconds rounded dow to zero times not much money equals nothing.

Also you will also have to pay people who you delay in your daily life.

snakeweasel

Wow, really? There are people capable of multi-tasking

Looks like I got you cornered as you are resorting to riduculing what people post. but yes I see this all the time, high speed manuevers doing things like talking on phones, eating and the like.

I don't see many of them in CA.

Look closer.

snakeweasel

I agree that ignorance is no excuse, but I think the number that do it out of spite are in the minority.

backy

If mpg were all about driving as slowly as possible, then the best speed for maximum FE would be... 0. But that isn't the case. It's not just about speed, it's about getting the maximum miles per gallon, which requires a balance of speed and RPMs. So the optimal fuel economy would normally be achieved at the speed at which RPMs are as low as possible, in top gear. For most cars, that is in the 55-65 range. There may be a few exceptions where the magic speed is higher, but that's hard to do because the higher the speed, the greater the wind resistance.

But in general I think it's a fallacy to think, "If I go faster, I'll get better FE."

Claires

Now that we know where everyone stands on the topics of speeding, hand signals, lit fuses and left lane camping, it's time to move on, as Kirstie suggested. The original post in this topic (written 9.5 years ago!) offered a few ideas for discussion:

#1 of 17396 OK by ghulet
Feb 01, 2002 (9:45 pm)
Now that we have Inconsiderate Buyers, Salespeople and Service Deparement threads on the Smart Shoppers board, here's where you share your stories and voice your aggravations, about idiot drivers.

My favorites: what I call the 'Lemming Drivers'. These are drivers who blindly follow other drivers everywhere, including into danger. Tonight I was behind a driver who was sitting behind a line of traffic that was turning left; he had more than enough room to go around (he was going straight), but instead sat there, blocking a huge line of traffic behind him; nobody wanted to go around *him* because we all knew he'd dart into our lane the instant we did go around (lots of Chicago two-way streets are *almost* wide enough for four lanes, but aren't marked as such, thus allowing swerving, driving around other traffic, double parking, etc.). Very annoying.

My other city favorites: people who cannot negotiate a stop sign (either they go before their turn, or sit cluelessly through three or four of their own turns, irritating everyone and blocking traffic behind them).

ClaireS, Host
Automotive News & Views | Coupes & Convertibles

gogogodzilla

I wouldn't set a speed to determine the reasonability of a pass. I'd use a time limit.

If you pass a car in 5-10 seconds, you have passed in a reasonable manner. If you take 20 seconds on up, you are being inconsiderate.

Speed has no bearing on passing. If you find that the speed you'd need to go in order to pass is too unreasonable for you... then stop trying to pass.

gogogodzilla

Seen 'em. It's too bad we can't rig up an unmanning vehicle for them to follow... that then drives off a cliff, for then all the rest of the lemmings would follow.
:P
---

Of course, right now, since I'm stationed in South Korea... my biggest pet peeves are cars in the opposing lanes of traffic that move into your lane. It never fails, suburban drivers here have a death-wish... for every one of 'em will drive towards you in your lane of traffic. I've gotten to the point where I have to just accept that I'm going to hit every oncoming car and just relax.

Fortunately, they all (at the last second, 10-20 feet distance) jerk their cars back over into their own opposing lane.

Then, of course, there are the pedestrians. There are large, spacious sidewalks lining the streets here, but every pedestrain that walks around in the local area... walks in the middle of the road. They also tend to look surprised that there is traffic on the roads as well. I don't understand their actions at all. I mean, really, there *is* a sidewalk. USE IT!!!

andres3

That is the reason LLC's are so offensive and frustrating. The Lemmings on the road accept and adopt their awful driving tactics and mimick them, thereby causing a congestion zone of LLC's.

I think I mentioned this phenomenon earlier. The campers feel like they have safety in numbers.

It makes perfect sense, afterall, when I'm speeding, I feel like I have some safety (from the cops) in numbers with cars in front and behind me going the same speed as me. You want to blend in; go with the flow.

the_big_al

I'm done reading about LLC'ing... I think I shall take a hiatus from this thread until a new topic comes up...

or Fintail posts his usually amusing stories.

Sandman6472

Ditto Al...maybe since I'm hardly ever on such a road, it's getting a bit much...much prefer stories about dumb [non-permissible content removed] drivers! But I'll check in and out to see if things have changed.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

xrunner2

This is pet peeve of mine.

A day does not go by that I don't encounter one or more opposing traffic car, suv, pickup, etc waiting to make a left turn at an intersection who starts moving "before" I even get to the intersection. Why can't they just sit there motionless, with front wheels pointing straight ahead, and wait "until" I pass them? They have this poor driving habit and no doubt do it all the time.

Recently, a pickup driver started turning way too much just before I got to intersection, could not stop, so I sped up and moved to the right side of road to avoid this jerk.

fintail

Are you going really slow, or slowing down just because you see someone wanting to turn? I swear that happens around here.

Maybe you need to nudge to your left and scare them :shades:

hammerhead

Considering the number of cars that apparently cannot see me, I must be invisible. They all seem to pull out from their side street/driveway/parking lot/insert your favorite here just in time for me to hit the brakes to avoid tailpipe incursion. Impatient, ignorant, blind, or some of each?

Kirstie_H

I cannot even believe some people. OK... let's start with the fact that I deliberately chose a neon yellow Ford Escape as my current vehicle, after being hit head-on in 2005 in a dusty-silver/green minivan, and in 2010, a silver G35. I got hit HARD, head-on, both times.

So, I'm thinking that I need to get something that is absolutely visible. Two days ago, I'm cruising down the street at the regulated 25 MPH, and a lady pulls out from a side street, no stopping, in FRONT of me. I am thinking, seriously... you did NOT see a bright yellow SUV? Good test for my (used, new to me) SUV breaks.

xwesx

I generally have bright vehicles, more by chance than anything intentional, and it really doesn't seem to make a difference. I also drive with lights on all the time and, while this factor *might* make a difference, that kind of stuff still happens.

Actually, it happens more frequently now than in the past (say >5 years ago past), I think... probably because the drivers are more often distracted. They might look in your direction, but most of the time they don't actually see you (i.e., they don't register the visual input!).

imidazol97

Does your Escape have daytime running lights along with the bright yellow?

imidazol97

> because the drivers are more often distracted. They might look in your direction, but most of the time they don't actually see you (i.e., they don't register the visual input!).

It's hard to see with the cell phone in your ear. Far too many drivers have a cell phone in their ear. It used to occur more on nights and on weekends when some cell phones had free airtime. Now it's all the time. And the distaff side seem to be more guilty. I watched a distaff driver make two lane changes with no turn signals because her other hand held the cell phone to her ear. I'm sure men also do this, but I really notice more distaff drivers doing it.

Kirstie_H

No. Not really necessary in the bright light of day.

snakeweasel

It's hard to see with the cell phone in your ear.

Well maybe for you, but most people see through their eyes not their ears.

fintail

Been driving in Bellevue, I see. There is a distinct demographic who loves to pull out in front of moving traffic, but I will simply leave it at that.

My recent commutes have been pretty trouble free. Did have an idiot speed up when I passed him on a 4 lane suburban arterial today, then dropped way back once I was past - dorky Hyundai Tucson. Also saw sportbike and Harley rider with no gear other than helmet, exposed skin and all - should nullify their insurance when they make a skin graft claim.

gogogodzilla

You might try installing the wavering headlight gear that you see motorcyclists use. You know how some motorcycles have a headlight that flickers in intensity... that gear - one for each headlight.

imidazol97

>some motorcycles have a headlight that flickers in intensity

I started flashing my headlights, brights, on and off rapidly when I meet one of those idiots with the strobe lights on their cycles. I've had a couple actually acknowledge me in a way that indicates they are disturbed by having bright lights flick on and off rapidly. I hope they had enough IQ to figure out someone was emulating their own strobing headlight.

I checked with my state representative about whether or not those were legal in Ohio. He didn't seem to know. I mentioned that some people might have a seizure invoked by those strobe headlights.