Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

euphonium

andres3

I think daytime running lights are overrated.

hammerhead

Fin, we did take a little excursion... Wenatchee, Olympia area, Anacortes, Winthrop, then home again. Skirted the greater Seattle area via ferry. Didn't have any issues related to my gripe as posted above. We were in the Suburban, not the Subaru - I was thinking size mattered but I see the same behaviors locally regardless of which car I'm in. It appears that they're looking right at me - perhaps they're looking right through me instead.

hammerhead

I agree - so many cars have them now, they all blend in. Nobody seems to see me any better in the Suburban (amber DRLs) vs. the Subaru (no DRLs at all.

fintail

I've had the look at you then pull out experience before, seems most likely from a certain "fairer" demographic.

Today was irked a few times. First, it is so much more annoying to be stuck behind a slowpoke when his car is ugly. Got stuck behind a Cube going 10 under, then it turned onto the street I was heading for - no signal of course. Luckily the road widened and I got past. Then heading into my garage, first met with a car exiting on the wrong side of the driveway, then in the garage got too close to a car driving down the middle of the lane. Won't stereotype the drivers, but one car was an Accent and one was a Beetle. I hope these idiots never buy SUVs.

gogogodzilla

Well, then the purpose of those headlights was fulfilled. Which was to get others on the road to notice the motorcycle. Of course, it did so by making you irritated...

Kirstie_H

Yeah... I'm thinking that if someone didn't notice me in a bright yellow SUV in the full light of day, DRLs wouldn't have made the difference. The driver who jumped out in front of me didn't stop at her stop sign, and she was determined not to look before pulling out.

hammerhead

No demographic here - it's universal.
Still thinking about that really loud air horn.

isellhondas

Oh, I know all about that demographic. On test drives they would do things you wouldn't believe. I stopped allowing these people from taking the cars on the freeway.

The Issaquah Plateau has no shortage of these either.

People who had International Driver's Licenses were downright scary!

fintail

Licensing standards in this part of the world are way too low. An IDL is useless, I don't know why it exists - you just pay to get it. I suspect our normal licenses work that way too, just like how you can, for all intents and purposes, pay to immigrate. Must be "business friendly" in some way, get as many people driving as possible to buy cars, gas, and shop.

My demographic snarkiness was more age and gender based than anything though...never had an older woman pull out in front of me after looking, never had a young man do it, never had an old man do it...hmmm.... :shades:

There are other demographic irks out there too, especially relating to overall situational awareness. These are the ones that you hint at, and get under my skin sometimes too. Some might call it bigoted or prejudicial, but where there's smoke... Makes me think of Vancouver in the 90s...lots of new money bought their way in, bought the biggest safest MBs and BMWs possible, and then made the area a goldmine for salvaged parts.

fintail

Get one just loud enough to shatter glass and cause short term deafness

ruking1

It is an interesting opinion, but it is less than clear what a tightening of the standards would really do. Now the hypothesis is easy enough to delineate. However according to the NHTSA we are experiencing record lowers of accidents, injuries and fatailites than at any other time since this stuff has been recorded. Indeed this is interesting in that the records are better than say in Europe and specifically Germany where licensing can be much more rigorous AND costly. Presumably licensees are more skilled than US drivers.

fintail

Sadly it wouldn't have much of an impact unless all existing drivers also had to pass the new tests - would take generations to weed out the old school.

I pin the lowering casualties to improved vehicle safety and nothing else.

ruking1

Then indeed you would be incorrect. Does improved vehicle safety play a part? Of course it does. However it is not well delineated, defined nor measured critically in either to both systems (European and US). The (US) stats were laid down given more cars, more miles, more (licensed) drivers, more trips, etc. Vehicle populations are similar 258.4 M vehicles vs 270.5 M. Average mileages are 12,000 to 15,000 miles US and European @ 8,700 miles. So as you can see we actually drive more miles (average) than the Europeans

hammerhead

I'd settle for just loud enough to be a surprise - so loud that no one would expect that much noise from such a small car. Fitting it under the hood might be a problem too. It's just a happy thought at this point

I have to make a quick trip to Portland next week - might come home with more stories to share.

fintail

No, I am not incorrect. Massive safety improvements in the past quarter century come with significant decreases in casualties. Coincidence?

What nations are included in these "European" stats? If mileage is supposedly examined how about traffic density and vehicle size, is this delineated or defined? Autobahns are still safer than our highways, where the lowest common denominator reigns supreme. We drive more miles, but with less cars to crash into us, and often in larger more crashable cars.

fintail

That's something I like about my cars - loud horns. The fintail scares people...and when a car that old and less than fast is honking at you to move, you are doing it wrong :shades:

A friend of mine always talked about mounting a foghorn under the hood. If you are driving I5 from Seattle to Portland, you'll see something stupid along the way, never fails. You'll get some LLC congestion around Centralia/Chehalis, if anything.

andres3

I recommend ordering those Ear Bustering piercing loud horns they are using as defense of boats against pirates in the seas off Africa's coast for installation under your hood. Of course, your own ears and glass may suffer too, but at least you can put on ear muffs first.

hammerhead

We're coming from the dry side, via 395 & I-84. Midweek, so traffic shouldn't be too thick until we get close. 84 is soooo boring now - I remember driving it way back when (pre-55) when it had a 75 mph limit, which meant 80 was ok. Now it's posted at 65, and 70 just seems slow along the gorge. And there will be triple trailers too! :sick:

ruking1

So what you are saying that was not true in Europe when it was true in the US? That is additionally and patently NOT true. Again we have better statistics than Europe AND Germany in particular. Your assertions do not change the statisitics.

fintail

Show me your statistics then to back up your assertions, please.

Here's some simplified data, doesn't give the US anything to brag about, patently shameful, actually

We have better statistics? When and where?

fintail

Oh, on the Oregon side...at least the traffic volumes will be light, and from my experience LLCing is less prevalent on the dry side. I know most of 82 is still posted at 70, it can be a nice drive, but look out for revenue generation stations. Along the river, at least the OR side is better than that old iffy WA highway.

fintail

A battering ram might just be easier :shades:

This incident happened just several minutes from where I live...I think being incompetent could qualify as being inconsiderate. According to another source, 74 years old, too.

xwesx

Dang... he was all the way up on that wire! He must have been moving at a pretty decent clip!

xwesx

The worst part of 84 is between Arlington and Pendleton; it is so flat/boring (and very often HOT) through that stretch! I love the run up "Cabbage Hill" though, just east of Pendleton. Of course, down is even better.

ruking1

I already mentioned the reference. Less you have forgotten, YOU are the one who made the ASSERTION or stated the opinion that better licensing (like the Europeans) would result in better "safety".

fintail

What post would that be, then? Please do tell, maybe I overlooked it.

It's not rocket science to imagine that more driver training (aka higher licensing standards) would make for safer roads - as areas with much more arduous work involved in getting a license have lower death rates than us.

fintail

Probably some brake/gas confusion too (also called unintended acceleration )

ruking1

Indeed, nor did I say it WAS/IS rocket science.

jwilliams2

Oldsters should have special parking spaces close to the entrance but facing away from the building.... :sick:

gogogodzilla

I dunno about that. South Korea has some ridiculously high standards (year of classroom time, 6 months of behind the wheel driver's training)... yet they drive extremely badly.

I've posted a few of my experiences with their drivers as examples.

I think that what is most important is a driving culture, where it is so pervasive that even non-drivers will know most of what is needed to drive without even having to think about it. Which would explain why America, Britain, Germany... tend to have pretty good road statistics.

While places like India, China, South Korea, etc... do not.

hammerhead

... and those spaces should be just a bit wider, too...

fintail

True, exactly what material is taught in a more intensive training program leading to higher licensing standards is important, not the mere standards themselves. If the blind are leading the blind, all the schooling in the world won't help, and the standards might not be applicable to real world conditions. Some societies are more adept at making motorists than others.

What really makes me laugh or cry is when people from those places where driving is random and insane come here, and they just can't get with it even with our relative order and logic. The "new residents" I love so much still do weird things - not as bad as where they come from, but not enough to really go with the flow here, and they'd be eaten alive in Europe (or NYC or LA or FL).

fintail

Speaking of people pulling in front of you...this morning about 0930 I am cruising down an empty suburban arterial at about the speed limit (at most 40 in a 35), no traffic behind me for maybe a mile, I am the only one out. From a side street comes a big lifted small man syndrome truck, doesn't stop, pulls right in front of me, and then he sees me, floors it almost to make a point as I didn't slow down for him. I used sign language to tell him he was number one as he turned off the road about half a mile later, without signal of course. Such people should be sent to re-education camps.

Then driving in town today, warmest weekend of the year, which makes locals drive like it is icy. Slow everywhere, random unsignalled lane changes, and I got to see something stupid twice. First on a busy 4 lane 35mph arterial, a Prius stops in the middle of the road to turn left into a McDonalds (healthy, you eco-weenies). No signal, double yellow line and no turn lane, so I honk, he glares at me, and I shake my head at the dork, wishing I had a machine gun. Then 10 seconds later a battered old Sonata with California plates pulls the same stunt, crossing the double yellow and this time cutting in front of an oncoming MB W210 that slams on its brakes and misses the Hyundai by maybe 6 inches. Must be some good food there.

snakeweasel

First on a busy 4 lane 35mph arterial, a Prius stops in the middle of the road to turn left into a McDonalds (healthy, you eco-weenies). No signal, double yellow line and no turn lane,

Granted s/he should have used a turn signal but it is legal to make a left turn across a double yellow line.

fintail

I think you're right. I don't really pay a lot of attention to the lines on city streets - they only caught my eye in this incident. The area should probably be divided, as a left turn is virtually impossible much of the day due to traffic volumes. The lack of signaling here has been a disease.

Saw one this morning - while jogging on an overpass over 405 noticed a Pathfinder and a RSX stopped in the carpool lane, with a huge backup behind them. Appears either the Pathfinder changed lanes into the carpool lane and smashed the RSX, or the RSX exited and smashed the Pathfinder. No LEOs on the scene yet, a mess as there is no left shoulder. No total losses involved, but not a good way to start the week.

Also saw a young woman texting while driving in a late model Range Rover she pretty much certainly didn't pay for. Ah, the "successful" class, with their responsibility and skill.

xrunner2

An age old problem. Driving in heavy rain on I90, Northwest Tollway in Illinois, saw a number of vehicles in opposing lanes with headlights off. Auto mfrs need to dummy proof all vehicles to have headlights come on when wipers working.

isellhondas

I won't drive in the carpool lanes anymore. Too many idiots.

andres3

You can only be as good as the teacher or master. I've taught 2 people how to drive in my lifetime thus far; all of them passed the "test" on the first attempt, and as far as I know, all of them are doing quite well at avoiding accidents on their record.

All the poor training in the world won't make you a good driver.

gogogodzilla

I'm more arguing that you could have Albert Einstein as an instructor, but if you have an illiterate bumpkin that never got more than 3 years of schooling... even Einstein wouldn't be able to make a physicist out of him in a short timeframe.

Just like the average Chinese, Korean, Indian, etc, etc. There isn't an auto culture that allows for the average 'Joe' to learn (and internalize) the basics rules of the road before getting behind the wheel of a car.

It'd be like giving the 'keys' to a rocketship to any one of us. Sure, a year of training would get us reasonably well taught on the mechanics of how to use it... but would you have had already a lifetime of riding in one? Seeing it's use on a daily basis? Watching movies that accurately depict what one would do in various situations? Seeing your father work under the hood?

Which is why, despite high license standards, the average driver in countries that have recently found themselves able to afford a car... tend to be the most amazingly craptastic drivers in existence.

fintail

Don't sell them short, drivers from those areas who come here also tend to be pretty craptastic...sadly it isn't limited to the home market. I live in H1-B/satellite child/buy your way in land, and it can be very amusing. Sadly, a lot of native born people aren't much better even with exposure to motoring, and I can't believe that lax testing requirements aren't part of that.

xwesx

And, I suspect it will get worse before it will possibly get better simply because so many children today are constantly glued to some sort of interface device that keeps their attention fully diverted from absorbing any of that "driving culture" gogo mentioned in his post. And, what he said is very true - while the basic operational mechanics of driving must be taught, most of how the new driver perceives to interact on the road has already been learned prior to ever taking the wheel for the first time.

At least, that was the case for previous generations.... :surprise:

andres3

On the flip side of that coin, kids today have probably been exposed to a variety of driving and racing type video games, and while simulations aren't an exact replica, some of the best ones out there do a pretty good job of teaching some basic skills. I do believe the hand eye coordination developed playing video games transfers to other hand-eye movements (such as driving a vehicle). Granted, a properly programmed driving dynamics game usually gives you a Ferrari to drive, and you might not want to go out in Mom's Sienna at 16 years old and duplicate a corner you took in that Ferrari at the Monte Carlo race track over by the local grocery store. :P

stever

Most of the inconsiderate drivers around here are the tourists gawking (including me). The locals are pretty tolerant though.

Lots of narrow roads in the little towns, and no sidewalks. Often you'll see moms pushing their baby carriages along the tarmac, taking up half the road, and teens walking 3 abreast cruising town. No one is in any particular hurry though.

hammerhead

Really!

In 800+/- miles of round trip to Portland & environs, I only encountered 2 bona fides, and a couple of wannabes that finally woke up. I was pleasantly surprised.
Maybe, just maybe, the word is getting out... :surprise:

fintail

Maybe it's less of an Oregon thing - I do notice they tend to drive faster than brain-addled locals, too :shades:

hammerhead

Didn't notice the plates.
But back home now, and they're all over the place.
Well, not really, they're all in the left lane.

fintail

You're living in my world then.

Today, I swear about half the people on the road had a phone to their ear. When I see some guy in a current model CL63 phone yapping, in a car that I am pretty sure comes with standard bluetooth, I want to yank him out and slam his head in the door a few dozen times. More hard work and success in action....either too lazy or too stupid to sync up the phone.

Also saw both a Lexus LS and a AAA truck going 10 under, the former on a 4 lane divided 40mph suburban road with a stream of people passing on the right, and the latter who crawled and crawled and then turned with no signal.

Kirstie_H

We always get them eventually. Posting a "spam alert" within the forums doesn't do us a lick of good. If we see your post, we've already seen the spam. An email to a host usually gets quicker action.

andres3

Involved at least 4 cars, maybe 5 in what looks to be like mostly rear-ending on a 5 lane freeway. For the life of me I can't figure out why'd you'd ever rear-end someone on the freeway. I kinda get a kick out of knowing it was probably a bunch of lemmings all driving obliviously until BOOM.