Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
As you can imagine, this was a paradise for left lane blockers, because a lot of the cars that were going left would get in the left lane well before the split, no matter what speed they were going.
One day, a car stayed in the left lane beside a car in the right lane going the speed limit for the whole 4 miles. Right before the split, he slows down, gets in the right lane and turns right.
I was fit to be tied, but I always assumed the guy was just a moron. I never thought that he might be on some unpaid traffic duty.
I can't prove it one way or the other, but I bet there are a lot more stupid people than evil ones.
Move closer to him. Wait a reasonable period of time.
Flash your lights at him. He moves over to the right.
You pass him, move to the right lane and continue on your way.
He moves back to the left lane.
He's purposefully camping in the left lane.
Mazda Mania
Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
The chat room opens 15 minutes before the scheduled chat time, so come early and get a good seat! Hope to see YOU there on Tuesday!
Mazda Mania Chat Room
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
The LLCs I encounter are NOT slowing down for construction zones. They are either clueless or get some sort of thrill by slowing down traffic to their level.
The clueless drivers should start paying attention and learn the meaning of lane discipline. Those drivers who want to play police officer should do everyone a favor and stay home, where they can get their vicarious thrills by watching reruns of COPS.
How to tell a left lane dominator:
When moving someone out of their way would allow them another 200 feet gain to be behind another group of cars in the 3rd lane at the same pace as the one they're dominating is their goal -- you have a dominator who gets a thrill out of the power of forcing someone out of their way.
How to tell a person in a hurry:
A person in a hurry has passed cars behind without waiting 2 miles to force the llc out of the left lane. A person in a hurry uses all three lanes where they can quickly but safely gain yardage.
I'm reminded of a local township policeman who just picked up a new Ford product at a dealer on a 4-lane divided highway. He pulled out and stayed int he left lane to make a left lane turn less than a mile ahead. A car tailgated him within feet to make him go faster than the 45 posted limit. Obnoxious behavior occurred.
The next day the tailgater answered his door to find the slow driver, in uniform, delivering a citation to him.
It pays to think about that when you tailgate, flash your lights, order one beer, at that driver going over the limit in the left hand lane.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Using the perfectly valid examples that many of us have shown above (countless times before and this thread will probably be shutdown because of the repetition but)
The only reason for being a LLC is either
a) they're a moron who is unaware of their surroundings
or
b) they are just a jerk (nice as I can put it). They intentionally like being a pain in the rear just because.
THERE ARE NO OTHER EXCUSES FOR IT.
Please note this is a discussion. I'm entitled to my opinion. Don't lecture at me from an arrogant viewpoint about what I'm allowed and not allowed to discuss.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's the same thing as saying "don't get upset at the guy doing the speed limit on a one lane road!!!", well sure, but that's not being a LLC and no one is accusing him of such.
again, honest LLC's are either unaware buffoons or jerks.
"Rude and personal response has been noted"
Are you trying to threaten someone?
If you can't take rudeness, you very well better get rid of your self-righteousness. It's a two way street buddy. Just because you get flashed at, honked at, and flipped off every time you venture onto a highway, as every 50+ hp vehicle flies by you...
"It pays to think about that when you tailgate,"
You're joking, right? If some off duty pig tried to ticket me the day after, I'd do everything imaginable to not just have the ticket dismissed, but to have his character assaulted at the same time. Hmmm off duty public servants writing citations the day after...that could get some media interest.
Again, it comes down to this. If you can move over for 10 seconds to let someone by, why don't you? Why not avoid all troubles and headaches altogether? It's not a problem anywhere else but here. I just came back from a 700 mile highway drive this weekend...when a car came flying up behind me and I was in the left lane, I moved over whenever I could to let them by. Moving the steering wheel a few degrees doesn't hurt me. And at times when I was the fast car, some people even did the same for me. I never had to flash or tailgate, although I did pass on the right more than once. It was efficient and painless traffic.
This morning I was briefly in the left lane with a Volvo S80 in front of me (we were going roughly the same speed 75-80). A Civic comes flying up in the left lane probably going 90-95 (it's a 70). As soon as I cleared the car to my right, I got over before the Civic had closed on me, and also (to my surprise) the Volvo got over as well. The Civic continued on its way. That's how it should work. Traffic stays flowing and no bottlenecks or road rage incidents.
A textbook example of: Keep Right Except to Pass and or Slower Traffic Keep Right.!
Funny why a lot of LLC's like the Angst??!!
Also when someone is coming up on my six, when they are in "legal" distance (i.e. not tailgating) I at the very least signal to move right and when safe move right.
Mazda Mania
Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
The chat room opens 15 minutes before the scheduled chat time, so come early and get a good seat! Hope to see YOU there on Tuesday!
Mazda Mania Chat Room
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
Oblivious LLC - Stays in left lane for miles, clueless to cars around him. Rarely responds to the situation developing. Frequently distracted by something (ie cellphone, talking, kids, newspaper, breakfast, knitting a sweater). Just wants to get from A to B.
Dominating LLC - May or may not normally drive in left lane, but is somehow provoked into staying there. Is definitely aware of surrounding drivers; frequently directs his actions against a specific target. May attempt to speed up to block those who dare to pass on right. Derives a feeling of vengeance/justice from holding back the offending speeder/tailgater (and maybe pleasure). Is out to win.
Oblivious Tailgater - Has a fast cruise speed and a very small driving "bubble." Pulls right up to your rear, not really to run you off the road or force you over but rather because that's just how he drives. Sometimes, the OTg has no cruise-speed; instead his speed is determined by whatever lies before him. Doesn't particularly care or notice that he is being LLCed. Just wants to get from A to B.
Dominating Tailgater - Gets furious at LLCs. Expects people to get the heck out of the way fast. Frequently waves fist, shouts something inaudible as passing. Once again, there is that feeling of justice. Hates to lose.
The key to this, as always, is BALANCE. Try not to be any one of the above. It's okay to have a few elements of each of them, but stay away from the extremes and respect others.
I hate LLCs, but I really do make a conscious effort to not get mad at them.
And btw, to repeat what others have said, the rules are COMPLETELY different when only one lane is available.
To change the subject - does anyone know how to back out of a driveway onto the street anymore? This would seem to be something that is intuitive but so many people cannot seem to grasp a simple concept - that when you complete your backing up, and are ready to put your vehilce into forward motion, you should be on the RIGHT side of the road. You should NOT be on the LEFT side of the road!
And if you should find yourself occupying the left lane, or a portion of it, you should proceed to aim your vehicle to move into the right lane as quickly as possible. It is NOT ACCEPTABLE to proceed in the wrong lane for half a block. Especially when someone - me, several times in the past few weeks - is coming the other way.
james
So I can drink my coffee, talk on the cell phone, etc, etc, ;-)
Rule Number 1: If you want to pass a Vermont driver, always be in the right lane and cruise up to within three car lengths or so. The vast majority will slow down.
Rule Number 2: If you are on track to pass a Vermont driver, and a car is ahead of them in the right lane (any distance away), be prepared for them to pull out into the left lane, as They Too want to pass. Also, be prepared for the driver to slow down as they Pass. This could take awhile as the moron, I meant Vermont driver forgets the meaning of Pass.
Rule Number 3: When approaching a Vermont driver and a hill on any interstate, be prepared to pass them ASAP. If you were going 75, they will quickly slow to 65 or much less. If it's a Canadian driver, they will generally slow down much more. But be prepared to face an angry Canadian on the downslope, apparently irate that his car can't go uphill.
(Very annoying for those of us that understand what Cruise Control is)
Rule Number 4: When routinely passing a Vermont driver, don't assume they will maintain their speed, they will almost always speed up. This is done to intentionally aggravate the passing driver. (How dare you) Instead, maintain your speed in the right lane. If I am in the left lane to pass and they do this slow down maneuver, I will turn on my signal, move to the right lane behind them and proceed. In 98% of all such situations, they slow down and forget it.
Rule Number 5: When a Vermont driver passes you, pay attention to his pull in ahead of you. A large percentage will slow down, usually slower than you were going. If you are on cruise control and forced to pass, be careful that the speed uppers noted in Rule Number 4 above don't ruin your entire day.
These are all the games of Vermont drivers, serving no useful purpose other than to make you say MORON and the like more times than you can ever estimate. With a scarcely populated state, it kinda makes you wonder why this happens. But I've found that many Canadian drivers and upstate NY drivers do much the same thing. Maybe a common link here? I have driven in some nasty driver states as well. But none so irritating as here.
VT drivers sound typical of many rural drivers. If you get out of major cities in the Midwest, you will find inept drivers who have no clue about Interstate driving, either. They are much like your description of VT drivers.
First Id use my turn signals and accelarate a little to try to get over safely, only to have someone block me out and chastise for driving too fast. Yes, I can see how a whopping 21 mph could enrage someone to the point where they would use their car to obstruct me.
So I gave up and tried getting over without signals by just subtly edging into the next lane. Of course, then I had people who rather than just slow down and be nice would accelarate and swerve around parked cars on the shoulder to stay in front of me and block me out, all the while chastising me for not using my signals and saying they would have waved me in if I had. I even explained to one lady that, based upon the actions of other drivers that day, I was not inclined to believe her and I seemed darned if I do, darned if I dont. No matter how I try to get over, the negative energy in the area seemed to be inspiring this mean spiritedness that compelled people to try to make my life harder. The most amazing thing to me is that it never occurred to these people that their childish stupidity made no difference at all. They were destined for another hour sitting in traffic before they blocked me out, and they still had the same fate after they created ill will among fellow travelers.
But nevertheless, the point being I got reminded of two things. Why I hate driving in that city and why I never accept day work anymore. I can rememebr sitting there looking around and seeing pure anger and frustration in people's demeanor and in their actions. Didnt realize how high the tension is in downtown traffic right around quitting time. Not fun at all, and I honestly cannot understand why more people dont foresake it all to take the train, which is so extremely convenient to the area.
Tip#2: Watch for byciclists. Some of those center city streets are tight, and the bikers will come flying through that little gap between parked cars and traffic seemingly oblivious to the fact that if anybody's arm twitchs and the car unexpectedly jerks to the right even a foot or so, or if anybody decides to make a left or right turn at the wrong moment, they'll be pancaked. The byciclists don't show much caution so you will have to. Always keep an eye on your side view mirrors in center city streets.
3) IF you're right in the down town area, might as well keep the car parked between about 4:30 and 7 every day unless you absolutely have to go out. IT will either be parked in the hotel lot or parked in traffic.
4)If you see a gap and need to get over, put your signal on but as you're already moving over. Otherwise it's been my experience, not just limited to the incident above, that people in snarled traffic in that area are in a foul mood and don't want to give ground.
5) A definite positive: As with alot of down town areas, it's laid out in a pretty logical manner. YOu'll have your numbers running North to South and your street names East to West. Easy to find your way around with plenty of signs for major highways.
I still don't have an answer, but the guy formation-flying with the LLC can't be terribly bright.
I was driving on a 2-lane wide stretch of Rt 17 North in NJ, in Hasbrouck Heights. There was a really bad LLC going under the speed limit (about 25mph lower than the normal flow of traffic)
with a solid line of cars behind him and open road in front of him to the limits of line-of-sight. I was 5th in line in the left lane.
The front car in the right lane also had open road in front of him literally as far as you could see, but was trying to merge INTO the very solid line of cars in the left lane. I watched him first try to merge between 2 and 3, but there was no room. So he slowed down (!!) and tried to merge between 3 and 4 but there was still no room. He slowed down again and tried to merge in front of me, but I wasn't about to brake to let him in and my exit was coming up (I did NOT want to take the chance of being behind him while trying to merge onto I-80).
Sure enough, as the left exit for I-80 came up, he rather brutally cut off the guy behind me and (slowly) followed me down the ramp onto 80. Last I saw of him, he was trying to merge into 70+ mph traffic at about 40.
Don't people know you are allowed to speed up to merge? I was always taught that when trying to merge into a lane to drive toward an open spot (speeding up or slowing down as appropriate) match speeds and move into the opening. Had he just used the gas pedal and passed 2 cars there was open road literally as far as the eye could see in the left lane in front of the LLC. Instead he magnified an LLC into a true rolling roadblock, almost missed his exit (people do NOT take pity on idiots on NJ roads) and almost caused an accident in his desperate effort to not miss his exit.
There was a really bad LLC going under the speed limit (about 25mph lower than the normal flow of traffic)
That means, speed limit of 60, "LLC" going at 75 and our man Ranald trying to go at 100. But then , the only reason this "LLC" is in the left lane is because his exit(on the left) is coming up and he has a dual objective of taking the exit and not having to stop for a chat with NJ's finest. Meanwhile, our friend in the right lane actually believes in "keep right pass left" and is puttering along in the right lane also at 75 mph. His exit is coming up fast(in the left) and he is unable to accelerate beyond 75mph for he is also not very inclined to engage in a conversation with the boys in blue. So he tries to merge in the left, but his strategy is ill-formed as he tries this stunt in front of our man Renald, who immediately speeds up to close the gap in true Jersey style. So what does the RLC do? He merges in a kamikaze style, since we all know that it is better to crash than to lose an exit(in NJ anyway).
After that, the LLC and the RLC took their exits, everybody started moving at triple digit speeds and all was well...
That really improves safety, now doesn't it? Unless the argument is that exceeding today's (ridiculously underposted) speed limits on limited access highways is dangerous, and the LLC is doing everyone a favor by slowing down traffic.
Unfortunately for the "speed kills" crowd, that idea has about as much currency as "the earth is flat."
The LLC didn't want the left exit, he was just slow. The guy on the right could have passed the LLC while remaining below the speed limit.
And for anyone familiar with Rt 17, you never speed up to close the gap, you simply never let the car in front of you get more than a carlength away, or you WILL get cut off, early and often. Yes, tailgating can be a safety measure. Trust me.
And if you've ever tried to merge onto an Interstate behind someone who neglects to accelerate on the onramp, it's *dangerous*. You do *not* want to be trapped behind someone like that.
Edit: You're right about the kamikaze merging. It astonishes me daily how badly people here merge, especially considering how often they have to do it. Many severe, multi-mile slowdowns are caused by single, relatively low traffic exits (ex. Exit 41 on I78 West), just because people cannot merge.
Have a great Memorial Day weekend!
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
I drove from Burlington, VErmont back down to Philly. The difference was like night and day. I started out near Burlington with considerate, sensible drivers who would make a pass and immediately clear the left lane. Traffic flowed smoothly, no rolling traffic jams, no road rage, nobody having to weave across 2-3 lanes of traffic at a time. The left lane was always clear so everybody else was able to pass slower traffic without pulling any risky stunts. Then all of a sudden we move through Connecticut and people take a longer time to complete their passes, lingering in the far left lane a tiny bit longer than necessary but eventually getting over.
Then we hit the Big Apple and all points south, and people would get into the left lane and get next to another car in the middle lane and just squat there and refuse to move for anything or anybody. Miraculously, this is right about the same point when I also started seeing faster cars shoot across 4 lanes of traffic to pass in the slow lane and tailgate slower drivers.
Coincidence? I think not. As people got more and more obstinate about hogging the left lane, other drivers got more and more dangerous in how they got around these obstructions.
And the one other thing that annoyed me even more was the pointless lane changes. As in, the left lane is already clogged, so I have no choice but to sit in the middle or right lane. Suddenly a car in the far right lane will exit the highway, leaving a good 1/2 mile or more of empty highway in front of him. And Ill get excited and move to the right lane and prepare to pass, then someone from the middle lane will move to the right and then match speeds with the car next to them in the middle lane, created three-across blockages.
They won't be going any slower or faster than cars in the middle lane, mind you. They would end up matching speed with them usually. Just seemed infuriating to me. All this open highway free and clear, then somebody just has to move over and block it off from people who want to take advantage and get away from the pack.
Now I know technically these cars weren't in the wrong for moving to the right, and it's my responsibility to pass, but it just seems stupid. Do people have this urge to spread out and fill up empty space just for the sake of taking up empty space? If you 're doing just fine in the middle lane, nobody in front of you slowing you down, nobody behind you tailgating you, why would a car in the right lane exiting the highway make you suddenly want to move one lane to the right, even though you're not passing anybody and you're exit isn't coming up? It seems contrary to common sense, as since it's the merging lane, it will involve more work on your part to interract with cars entering and exiting the highway. And yet this common sense seemed contradicted by another one of those stupid little subconscous instincts people have to do things on the highway that make no sense.
Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
The chat room opens 15 minutes before the scheduled chat time, so come early and get a good seat! Hope to see YOU there on Tuesday!
Mazda Mania Chat Room
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
So you always seem to have some traffic in the second lane going 55-60, or slower. And this shifts traffic which would normally flow in this lane over to the left. Most of this traffic is the average driver doing the limit or 5 over. Many of these people seem to be sheeplike in their driving habits, so they dont move back over when its clear, they form long lines of cars in the left lane, and they pace each other to form rolling roadblocks.
I really dont believe that people do this intentionally. They simply are not thinking that much about what they are doing.
And I dont really understand why people who are so intimidated by traffic feel better if they go slower. When I have had to drive a little slower, like for example when I have had to use the temporary spare, it feels much more intimidating to have cars constantly coming up from behind and passing.
Actually, my experience driving I-95, is that from NYC South all the way through VA, drivers fill up empty spaces 3 across.
Once out of VA, you get to NC and SC where there is lane discipline. It is enjoyable driving in those States. GA isn't as good , but is a lot better than NYC -VA.
FL has a lot of tourists and old geezers who have random poor driving habits. There are good days and bad days. ;-)
-Jason
I'm not intimidated by traffic in and of itself, but I AM intimidated by prowling cops and speedtraps, especially this time of year. That's why lately I've been cruising at around 5-7 over the limit, with cars passing me all over.
I've gotten too many bs 10-over-the-limit tickets.
When there was enough room to pass on the right, the car behind her got in the right lane...and the damn woman sped up to 80 to block the car and then as soon as she had successfully blocked off the car trying to pass, slowed back down to 70 (the speed limit for this section).
Is it wrong for me to find that extremely frustrating?
I often use this tendency to get people out of my way. Fein an attempt to squeeze by on the right, cause I know they'll pick it up a bit to block me out. Then wait until they reach a stretch where I have enough space to pass easily, floor it, and fly by on the right at a higher speed than they have the nerve to try and match.
I know how you feel though. Lately I have been doing 80 on the way to work, and I am just keeping up with left-lane traffic much of the time. But I gotta slow down, I dont want any tickets.
The LLC/LLB lane hog is not uncommon unfortunately. Sometimes I will pass these people on the right, as if I was passing on a two lane road with traffic - downshift, rev the engine and make alot of noise while going around them, cut in front of them abruptly yet not so close to be unsafe, and speed off in the distance. Generally they dont do anything in response.
These are the same ones who when stopped at a red light, wait 15-20 seconds before moving when the light turns green.
If green lights are a problem for them, why would you think those Chuckites would know what lane to be in ?
It feels weird to admit it but I almost took out a carload of nuns on the Jersey Turnpike the other day.
I was cruising along in the middle lane in heavy traffic. The car in front of me was some generic midsize sedan. In front of them was a tanker truck. In heavy traffic I tent to give part of my attention to the car directly in front of me and the rest to traffic farther ahead, it helps to anticipate slowdowns.
I wasn't particularly close to the sedan (where was I going to go?) but I wasn't way back either (don't want to get cut off, this is NJ). I was pretty much just keeping a constant distance between me and the tanker truck.
Anyway, things slow down a touch and the tanker applies a little brake. Not much, but some. And I start to slow to match. But the sedan panic brakes, and all of a sudden there's a sedan flying towards me. I didn't hit it, but it was close.
No longer content to cruise behind this crazy car, I make an effort to pass. As I slowly inch by on the left I look over and notice that the car is full of nuns (yes, nuns) and the one driving has a two-handed white knuckle death grip on the wheel and looks petrified. (As if tanker trucks are going to be making any dangerously sudden stops?)
So if you notice anyone driving like they're scared, just work around them. They probably really *are* scared. As to why people too scared to drive are allowed to drive, that's a different issue, probably an AARP thing.