Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
If you are LLD and get caught you should get a ticket.
If you fail to MERGE and cause an accident you are liable for the damages.
Right/wrong is already decided. Your CHOICE to bogard your way onto the freeway is no more/less you right than mine is to do 100 mph on the open road.
However the choice to force someone out of the lane is much more dangerous since in this situation you are purposely endangering another drivers safety.
Just as I would be liable if I slammed into a car while driving 30-40 miles over the speed limit. The other car was obeying the law, I chose to break it.
I was coming up the 4 lane section of road heading through the traffic light onto the 4 lane divided section, which has a 40 MPH limit for the 2 mile stretch. No place to turn off the 4 lane divided stretch between the traffic lights. Also, there are curbs on both sides of the road surface, no "soft shoulders". As I approach the first light in the right lane, there's a car a just going through the light, also in the right lane, going somewhat slower than me, so I move into the left lane figuring that the speed differential will carry me past up ahead somewhere. About 100 yards after going through the light, the other car moves into left lane maintaining their same speed of about 35 mph. As there's no other traffic on the road and I'm in no rush, I decide to hang back in the right lane to see what's going on. Are they a LLC? Are they thinking ahead 2 miles to where they're going to make a left at the next light?? I just got curious. As we approach the traffic light at the end of the divided stretch, they move back into the right lane, then turn on their signal to make a right at the light. And then I think I figured it out. Not that she was a "little old lady", but the driver wasn't exactly what we might call an "enthusiast" behind the wheel. She camped in that left lane for two miles for what at first glance looked like no reason. But I have a gut feeling that she felt like she could better judge where the curb was on the left side of her car compared to what she would have had to do if she was in the right lane. I could be wrong on this, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. It IS easier to see stuff on the left side of the car than on the right.
What do you think of the theory: Some LLC's are created by their comfort level behind the wheel??
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
It never ceases to amaze me about the lack of common sense and courtesy re: merging. It's like some want to have a sign on their cars that says "Make me a road rage statistic!"
On the way home, on 270 and the Beltway, I got stuck in some incredibly nasty weather. Rain, hail, a sky that looked downright angry, and if it was about to spawn tornadoes. Then, it either broke or I got ahead of it, got home, and then we got hit again, really nasty. Then, it blew out almost as quick as it got in, and everything got so bright and sunny that it looked like the happy ending out of a Hollywood movie!
Imidazol, there are parts of I-95 that are toll. First, to go through/around Baltimore, you have two tunnels to pick from. Either one's $2.00. Or, you can go across a 2-lane bridge that crosses the mouth of the Baltimore harbor. I have no idea how much it costs, but it's probably the same. And no kidding, it's just a 2-lane bridge! One lane in either direction...on an INTERSTATE highway! When it gets windy they have to make tall trucks and RVs stay off of it.
Then, when you get up to where I-95 crosses the Susquehanna River, it costs $5.00 going north, but nothing going south. There is a way to get around it, but it's so convoluted and back-road that it's probably worth it just to pay the 5 bucks!
Then, I think they hit you for a couple bucks here and there once I-95 leaves Maryland, but before Philly.
Bottgers, merging slowly in and of itself is dangerous. Forget matching speed of traffic, at a minimum, you should already be doing the speed limit as you prepare to merge. As for the crusade against people not moving over, I think most have agreed that 1) if there is a clear lane of traffic and said traffic is not so heavy as to strand me out in the left lane, we will gladly move over. It is courteous and the right thing to do--I do it all the time, 2) a reasonable person, if they cannot move over, will adjust their speed to either let you in or move up so you can get in behind. In any event, the law is very clear. Merging traffic yields to through traffic.
Liability is fully on you if you merge and collide with a vehicle on the highway, because in your judgment, they could have moved over but did not.
You say you only adopt this technique when a person can move over but does not. So, who exactly determines if they can move over? Do you see the point? Certainly, there are many half asleep zombies out there, but if you take action against them, you often times will involve ME, when I did nothing wrong.
As for stopping to render aid, I cannot comment on WI's law, but what I do know is this: If you are involved in the accident, you must stop. You may be required to stop to render aid at an accident scene, but I doubt you are required to stop only if the vehicle is disabled. Beyond that, all the media and government tells people is "don't accept help from strangers, put your hood up and wait for police, only roll your window down a crack, etc". So, if I do my duty by stopping for the disabled vehicle and I get maced because the person thinks I am an ax-wielding, murdering rapist (because that's what PSA's and magazine articles say people who stop must be)and I then leave, am I breaking the law if that person does not get assistance for another 4 hours? For all I know, they could be some strung-out crack user looking to take me out. I would likely call to report the car to the police, but I cannot since you've determined I shall not use a cell phone in a car. I sure hope you will print a chart so I can keep all this straight, as it's much more confusing, than...I don't know...the driving and traffic laws.
imidaz has made his bed. Now he's trying to figure out how he can sleep in it."
Reading other's posts I'd say you're looking in the mirror when you wrote this.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"If they can move over but choose not to, only then do I use my technique."
You dont really have much time to decide whether or nor those in the far right hand lane are going to let you in or not. My experience has indicated that most who remain in the right hand lane either chose not to or are just plain oblivious.
I dont have one specific technique, mainly because each merge is traffic dependent thus requiring a different set of driving skills to get on the highway without running out of room(merge lane ends).
IOW sometimes I have to exceed the flow of traffic to get on the highway, other times in light traffic its no problem. One thing I wont do is significantly slow down and wait for an opening, thats asking for trouble, imo.
Just my .02
Things that make you go 'hmmmm'...
He's insistent on forcing other people to drive the way he wants them to drive. If he wants to merge, they should get over out of his way. But it's more fun if he gets to play bumper tag to force them over the way he believes they should have gotten over in the first place.
It's about domination with 1.5 ton vehicles.
It's the same as the LLDs (left lane dominators) who roar up, put the nose of their 1.5 ton vehicle close to your rear to make sure you know you're in their lane and ought to have gotten out of it sooner so they don't have to tap off the cruise control or change lanes. That's too much work for them to do as a part of driving. Everyone else should do work to change lanes for their, but they should just roar through in the left lane far above the speed limit.
It's about domination. Some play passive aggressive, but it's still dominating rather than coexistence.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You actually cover more ground at the same speed on the "inside" of the turn. It may have been someone with some racing experience, trying to combat boredom.
I do not drive with the thought of "is it legal to do so." There are many actions that are moral, but not legally required.
That's a very good point. "The law" and what is "right" aren't always the same. Common courtesy and common sense are never addressed by "the law". Expending virtually no effort to make things easier for everyone on the road has nothing to do with "the law". It's all about selfishness and self-righteousness.
Something I have noticed lately are tailgaters driving vehicles that are less than fast or competent. In the past few days I have been tailgated by a Rio and a Sportage...and I don't exactly stick to the speed limit. Sorry, it doesn't work that way...my car can beat up yours! LOL
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
I too move over occasionally when it's safe and there's time to do so without endangering others to my left on two-lane or three-lane interstates.
I also slow down to let people merge who take the courtesy to look as they come up the ramp to see the holes in and the speed of the traffic. Occasionally I speed up to make a hole behind me larger for the person to merge.
If you're coming around the ramp and
1) don't bother to look in mirrors or turn your head to see the traffic into which you're going to be merging
2) are talking on your cellphone which is much more important
3) talking to your passengers
4) daydreaming???
sorry, I'll try to avoid your accident-waiting-to-happen, but I'm not going to endanger me and mine to move over into the next lane in front of a transcontinental truck or a left lane dominator who is going through at 80 mph (speed limit 55) by making a quick lane change without thorough mirror checks and head swivels.
It is amusing when one of these drivers tries to merge on without looking in advance to plan and finds himself
next to a semi who doesn't jump to the next lane. The car driver seems to wake up with a start.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Perhaps, the driver is asking the passenger to see "If there's anyone behind a specific car" while merging. Some ramps come from above or to the extreme right not affording the driver a good view of the traffic.
Not moving over because you determine another driver is "an accident waiting to happen" may be a self fulfilling prophecy.
One definition of inconsiderate is a driver who will not adjust to traffic. A few examples: Not moving over when a merging car is approaching when it is necessary. Camping in the left lane when the right is clear.
By the same definition, a driver who will not adjust to traffic and expects others to get out of his way is inconsiderate. Examples: Tailgating a left-lane camper when it is clear he is not going to move over. Trying to drive 20MPH faster, or slower, than prevailing traffic when traffic is moderate to heavy, thus causing much lane-changing, serving and braking.
And forcing a car on the highway to move over when you are merging, and threatening to cause an accident, is to me, not only inconsiderate but reckless.
Many inconsiderate drivers seem to operate on what I call the vector principle. They believe that they have some divine right to the space their vehicle is going to occupy in a few seconds time, and anyone blocking this space, or the vector leading to it, is a problem for them.
Another way to be an inconsiderate driver is to let anger or frustration take over and attempt to conduct a lesson in driving and traffic laws while on the highway at 70MPH. Your options are limited to hand gestures, your horn, your lights, using your vehicle as a weapon by swerving at the other driver, or throwing some object at the other car. None of these are going to be inerpreted by the other driver as a sincere attempt to give him a helpful lesson in driving courtesy.
The problem is... they won't get it. If you attempt to teach courteous driving techniques by driving in a rude fashion, all the other driver will see is the rudeness... not the "lesson".
So not only is it illegal, discourteous, and potentially dangerous, but it is non-productive as well.
Y'all hava swell day.
Actually this very thing happened to me on an autobahn like freeway. The only difference being, the merging car was a CA Highway Patrol car which as I came to see, didn't see me as he was merging
I assume you are describing someone who comes up a ramp and insists on forcing others out of their legal lane of travel rather than effecting a smooth merge by speeding up or slowing down slightly to merge before or after them -- sounds like the perfect description!!! LOL
"You obviously don't have a clue just how ridiculous this notion is."
I think you can figure out how I would respond to that one.
Why do you keep trying to make this personal rather than a discussion, Bott???
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes this is exactly what you should do. But not at the merge point. You should adjust your speed as you go down the ramp, sizing up the traffic on the highway, to either get in front of or behind a vehicle in the right lane.
I do this every day on my commute, several times each way, often in heavy traffic. It is not dangerous. I am not risking a ticket or an accident. I do not need to "slam on my brakes". I might need to exceed the speed limit by a small amount to get in front of a car, but I tend to drive 70, so I am speeding anyway.
The dangerous part is your "forcing" the other driver to move. Yeah they should move. Lots of thing should happen and do not. I dont know where you live but if you try that around here, Id say about 1/3 of the time you are going to encounter someone who will not give way and who is likely to chase you down and attemt to show you some "driver education" for attempting your manuever.
So let's review:
Q: Should I move over if I can?
A: Yes, absolutely, it's a good driver thing to do.
Q: Does the law state I must yield to merging traffic?
A: No, in fact, merging traffic must yield to through traffic.
Q: So, if I don't move over, but am able to, and someone forces me over, they are wrong?
A: Yes, but someone who doesn't move over is still a jerk.
This is the consensus of the people here, but you choose to argue with those who take offense to your method of forcible imposition of courtesy through actions that if not illegal, certainly subject you to legal liability for property damage and bodily injury. So, if it's ok with you, can we just agree that nice people move over, jerks do not but are not lawbreakers?
There is a term for this which escapes me at the moment, but I'll think of it eventually.
maybe considerate driving is like pronogrophy: You can't really define it, but you know it when you see it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It is never even remotely a justifiable thing to just blunder into a lane and forcing someone out of it, unless it avoids a much more serious accident.
Take responsibility for your actions.
I recall a time when I was driving down a lane (exceeding the speed limit, not that this is relevant) that ended a ways ahead and was passing a much slower moving car to my right. I had plenty of lane left to quite safely pass them and merge in front of them. The driver actually sped up to meet my speed beside me. The lane disappeared, and I ended up causing the car next to me to change into the right lane with the driver yelling at me. Yes, I was a bit stubborn, but I wasn't the one who went out of his or her way to cause this situation, and would have slammed on my brakes if I had to. What that driver did is really no different than what you take so much pride in doing -- knowingly acting to cause a collision, then blaming the mayhem resulting from their actions on someone else.
Again, take responsibility for your actions.
At any rate, in any of those rare situations where I didn't get over, if the merger comes into me, I'll move over as far as I can in my lane, speed up (assuming he's even-to-behind me) and give the horn. Now if someone like Botgers kept coming, I'd stand my ground. That's what insurance is for. I'm not going to crash into someone else not involved (for which I would be at fault) for some jerk coming into me after a horn and moving over some. I'd gladly swap paint at that point.
"I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing for my own satisfaction."
"I have adopted a couple of new strategies. The first deals with the aforementioned driver who's in such a he11-fire hurry they can't wait until you go by, instead he must pull out in front of you and then drive 10 mph under the speed limit. In this case, I pass the driver, then pull into the lane in front of him (all while signaling and without making any radical or agressive moves), then I gradually slow down to about 10 mph less than he was driving."
"My second new strategy deals with merging onto the freeway. Here, our freeway entrances are posted with merge signs instead of yield signs. Apparently, many drivers here don't know what "merge" means because many times when I enter the freeway, drivers refuse to move over into the left lane even when it's completely empty. As I'm coming down the ramp, I will observe the traffic on the freeway. If the left lane is open and there's a vehicle in the right lane that's not moving over, I make sure I'm doing the speed limit and that my turn signal is on, and I slowly pull over into the right lane. Doing this I've forced people to move over into the left lane, and have even drew a few penalty flags (people flipping me the bird). So what?"
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Really your "technique" is nothing short of dangerous. Yes it is nice when people move over for you (something I do almost all the time) but I don't expect it to be done for me. I just adjust my speed. Either faster and merge ahead, or more commonly just knock a little speed off and merge behind the car. No big deal. I'm not entitled to anything. Although I do appreciate it when the left lane is clear ;-)
This one isn't so bad. I never have the motivation to go to all of this trouble just to piss someone off who inconvenienced me, whether through malice or ignorance. Perhaps I'm mature enough to realize that nothing will really be gained from it, and grown up enough to be able to just ignore such idiots.
But bottgers has me convinced that he is indeed a menace on the road -- and proud of it.
If I come up on somebody in the left lane, I'll come up, but not tail gate, I'll sit back not too far for probably 10 seconds and if the car doesn't move, then I'll pass on the right (which is not the right thing to do, but I do it).
Some people though, god forbid you pass on the right. They'll immediately speed up and try to match you or pinch you off in traffic up ahead. (Mind you this is without tailgating).
In this state we call them bear bait. That makes it less like I get a ticket for 75 if they've occupied the officer with 78 or 80.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm always surprised when someone sees me merging. Heck, I'm used to cars changing lanes right into me, and seeing me in those cases should be a lot easier than seeing me when I'm merging.
Bottgers, thank your post clarifying your position. If you want to keep up a war of words with imidazol, I'll stand clear.
I didn't include your whole post here for brevity, but the above quote is what caught my eye and I guess is the thing that I have the problem with. We all know moving over is the right thing to do and that slower traffic staying right is the right thing to do. The problem with the merging thing is as much as you feel you are right, if you do this to me, I'm not likely to move (because I may have a good reason to be there that isn't for you to decide--as I've said, I move over 99% of the time--the time I don't is probably because the next exit is mine, and I could end up being inconsiderate to everyone trying to get back over) and you can be sure a lawsuit will follow if I'm injured.
I'm actually backing away now that you've said that your argument isn't with the majority of us--I just wanted to point out that YOU deciding when YOU get to smash into people when YOU determine they could HAVE moved over but did not is not exactly a very defensible position.
Join the Subaru Crew every Thursday evening for a chat session from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Stop in to talk about Subaru or just to say hello!... Hope to see you there!!
Subaru Crew Chat Room
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
Today I was in a turn lane, and I noticed the car beside me, in a straight lane, had its signal on. The couple in the car looked frazzled and were obviously lost (had a map out). I let them go in front of me, to avoid them turning into me, turning into someone else, or ending up who knows where. "The law" wouldn't support this. Shame on me...
Some of you still seem to be hung up on this "legal" thing. It's "legal" for me to not say thank you when someone holds the door open for me as I enter a store. It's "legal" for me to cut in line in front of someone else at McDonald's. It's "legal for me not to allow other drivers to exit a parking lot in front of me when thousands of people are departing an area after a 4th of July fireworks display. All of these things are perfectly "legal", but they're wrong. Do you see what I'm getting at? Just because something is "legal", it doesn't mean it's right.
The other thing I want to address is that many of you seem to think that when I use my merging technique, if the driver in the right lane doesn't move over a lane, I'm just going to run into him. This isn't the case at all. If I see the driver is not going to move over, I will stop merging. Every time I've used this technique the driver has moved over. They weren't always happy about it, but they moved over.