I also advocate spending another lousy $20 per year for rental car coverage, which offers to cover 30 days of a rental vehicle while yours is repaired.
Which in MA gets you $15 a day for coverage. Try renting a car for $15. To get $30 a day will cost over $100 a year - twice the coverage for five times the cost.
Again, you make your choices and you deal with the consequences. I've been lucky enough that any rental costs I've dealt with were paid by the other company.
I would go to a car dealer and attempt to make a trade for the vehicle you want, have them document the sale and trade in price. Now be honest, and say, I know this will affect my trade in price but I have to tell you my car was hit from behind and had substantial damage, but as you can see it looks fine now, right? Be prepared to see your trade in value drop from 25 to 40 percent if the repair is not apparent. Now have him document that and sign it, date it. You now have another piece of documented evidence to prove your car is worth less because of it's accident history. Attach a copy of that and your report and send copies to the person that caused the damage and the insurer. In both letters you should allude to the fact that this is a loss you will have to endure because of the negligence of the at fault driver and that you will be prepared to file suit if the insurer does not pay you for your loss. When the other driver gets a letter he only knows one thing, Why is my insurance company not taking care of the other guys loss and why should I be sued.
You may also want to enlighten the at fault driver that by their insurer by failing to fully protect them and pay all of your loss, they may have breeched their contract with them and they will have some credit history damage with even a small claims suit against them.
Your appraiser had better include documentation on how he can substantiate his figures and that he just didnt pull them out of thin air. One state,Georgia uses a formula known as 17C to calculate this loss and it is to be used only in absence of no other formulas used as a minimum amount owed. Other insurers attempt to use this rule in other states where it means nothing.
Sometimes it helps to enlist the aid of a news organization print and tv to bring to light your case for DV. No insurer likes bad publicitiy as they spend so much in commercials making you feel warm and fuzzy trusting that they will be there for you in your time of need.
Again this is not to be construed as legal advice, ask your attorney friend how it should be pursued.
Actually the $75 is not for the appraisal, it is for a diminished value report under the assumption that the repairs were done correct. I am in the unique position that my mother works as an insurance adjuster and good friends of the family own an operate a reputable local body shop. The repairs were done to general standard but that dose not return the car to pre-loss condition or value.
I am NOT disputing the quality of the repair. I actually complained at every step that no after market parts be put on my car. That being said, they did do 12 hours of labor to the main support pillar. So they put all new OEM parts on a frame that they beat and pulled. Now if I claim the body shop did not do my repairs correct, all they are going to do is send the car back to the shop.
I am trying to recover Inherent Diminished value. As long as I can sell/trade my car and not be "upside down" I will be happy.
statements that I do is to enlighten readers of the advantages of having the various coverages and how it can assist them in potential claims...the only downside, which I never mention since it is beyond obvious, is whether the cost to that individual is worth the risk of not having it...
Here in GA, I would guess that the average auto case, w/o a lawsuit, settles about 5-9 months after the wreck, also assuming "average" (whatever that is) length of treatment...I recommend medpay because it will pay med bills within 2 weeks of submission...w/o medpay, waiting for liability insurance to pay means it must wait until settlement, 5-9 months post accident...the problem is that most hospitals and major large medical clinics are on 30/60/90 day billing cycles, and after 90 days the account is sent to a collection firm (agency or lawyer)...so, the minor cost (here) of medpay can prevent ruining of someone's credit...
Something I forgot to mention, and I kick myself for forgetting...it seems that in the last six months or so, hospitals and their ERs are refusing to bill group health insurance for AA injuries, because now the insurance companies are refusing to pay the claims, taking the position that if there is liability insurance, with another means to pay, then they will not pay the bill...so, here in GA, w/o medpay means you may have no other means to pay even if you have your group policy...not all ins companies are doing this, but the ERs take a blanket position that they will not bill group and wait for refusal, they just want payment from liability...while I am not sure if group is standing on form legal ground, that is not part of my representation...so, here in GA, medpay, IMO, becomes even more mandatory for proper coverage than I previously stated...YMMV...:):)
Something else I learned about 4 years ago, and it caused me to add to my coverage...
A client was slightly injured with about $250,000 med bills, burst spleen, multiple fractures and in a coma for 29/30 days...the at fault party only had $25K coverage and lived in a trailer with a 12 year old car (I am not against trailers or 12 year old cars, but this is often a good indicator of something, I will let you guess what it is)...we naturally settled for the $25K...this made me call my own ins agent and ask how one would be covered in this event...
They told me to add a $1 mil umbrella policy to my Uninsured/underinsured policy, so that if I was severely damaged and they had minimum limits, I could recover from the umbrella...since most umbrella policies raise your liability to the other party, this one raised it to cover me...the cost???...only $150 per year...worth it???...to me, yes...
Maybe my vision is skewed because since I see numerous cases where a person is not only physically damaged in the wreck, but then financially damaged, often permanently, which would have been avoided if they carried the coverages I constantly recommend here...
Maybe I am biased because as an atty, I may see these consequences in clients more in a year than most folks see in their lifetime, so when I am aware that it could have been dramatically helped/prevented by simple inexpensive insurance (inexpensive in the sense that the extra coverages I recommend often cost much less than the basic liab/comp/coll that they already buy) I jump on that bandwagon...
Regardless of someone's 30 year accident-free driving history, the odds of being in a serious collision are always there...anyone could run a stop sign or red light, a concrete truck or semi could lose its brakes on a hill and rearend you, and your driving skills are worthless to stop it...the ONLY thing the extra coverages would do is help out in the financial sense, since everyone wants to be paid, no one wants to pay out of their pocket, and, like it or not, most injured people believe they deserve some compensation for their injuries...unless you are dealing with Bill Gates, someone's insurance, yours or theirs, is what will pay those costs...
So, while you argue with me on what is and is not necessary, I see my job here as trying to inform folks of coverages that may be available to them that their insurance agent did not tell them, or explained poorly, and maybe with increased knowledge they will make better choices in the future...
If you do not want to insure against the risk, don't...but when the catastrophic auto accident strikes, AND I HOPE IT NEVER DOES, you will be glad you had the coverage, and sorry if you don't...
Could you beat the odds and never have the serious accident???...of course, most folks go thru their lives like that...but since you never know if it is your turn tom'w to be totalled by a jackknifing tractor trailer at 60 mph on a rainy interstate, I think having the coverage is prudent, wise, and quite inexpensive compared to what it would cost you if the major wreck happened and you didn't have the coverage...
Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I hadn't seen the various cases I have seen, but I feel enlightened and grateful to have the knowledge from the injuries of others, rather than my own...
I believe in insuring myself against risk, and I believe that others should do the same...what they do is up to them, but at least I made them aware of what is out there, and then they can make an informed decision...
Better to refuse medpay, or UM umbrella insurance, knowing what it is and how it can help you, than not knowing what it is and never having the choice to make the decision...when I think of the number of folks I see that tell me that no one ever offered them medpay, I see it as my job to explain it to them...an informed choice is better than not buying it due to lack of knowledge...
Further, I add my thoughts HERE so others can hopefully learn more about a field that is usually foreign to them, and that is insurance...I hammer home my thoughts because I have gleaned knowledge over the years that may help them out, and, no, I do not get paid for it, but I try like hell so that folks will understand something that their agents never take the time to tell them.............
I only try to help, enlighten and teach, so other may not have to suffer in the event of a wreck...I also acknowledge that my thoughts are general, as they specifically apply only in GA, but the principles are probably fairly universal in many, if not most states...
the minor cost (here) of medpay can prevent ruining of someone's credit...
In the example you gave, how can that ruin someone's credit? My understanding is that a medical bill is not "credit" such as a loan or credit card. I have had disputes with doctors in the past and have flat out refused to pay as they were out right wrong and they felt they were in the right, yet it never ended up on my credit report, which I check yearly.
In the example you gave, how can that ruin someone's credit? My understanding is that a medical bill is not "credit" such as a loan or credit card.
Medical bills CAN and DO ruin credit. Take it from someone with a chronically ill child, medical bills can destroy a person financially. Its taken us a long time to get through it, including going through a bankruptcy.
We carry med pay on our car insurance, but after reading stuff here I think I'm going to raise the amount!
Before you do anything, you need to find out what the true value of your car was worth before the accident. Since your car is relatively new, the book values may be a bit skewed. I would recommend visiting the Real World Trade-in Values forum and asking the experts: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ee9c851/33818. They base their values on auction sales around the country which is essentially what a dealer will give you for trade. This is best way to determine the approximate value pre-accident. for your vehicle without hiring someone. They can also give you an idea of the value of your Jetta post-accident as all of these folks are in the car industry and have a sense of what an accident wil do to the value of the car.
Based on your last post, your main objective is to not be upside down when you trade in your car. I doubt that is going to happen unless you put 20% down when you purchased the vehicle. Cars depreciate the most in the first year. Even if you did not have the accident, you may still be upside down depending on how much you owe. If your car was worth $20k before the accident and now worth $17k, but your loan amount is $24k. I wouldn't expect a check for $7k to make you whole; More like $3k, to cover the difference in value between pre- and post-accident.
You should continue working with your agent but going this route will give you a sense of what you can expect and you cna decide whether or not you want to continue with your course of action.
"My understanding is that a medical bill is not "credit" such as a loan or credit card."
Tell me you aren't serious with that statement...when a hospital or a doctor provides a service (for an auto accident w/o fractures, but including x-rays, the average ER bill is $1500-2000, the avg radiologist bill is $100-150, and the avg ER doctors bill is about $300) if it is not paid within 90 days, they send the bill to either a collection agency or collection lawyer, and it hits their Equifax shortly thereafter...
The credit issued is EXACTLY like a credit card or a loan, except that the individual medical facility is almost never a member of Equifax (like Visa or Chase Bank) but once it goes to collections, THAT will hit your Equifax and it is now no different than a nonpayment on Visa, except that it will now show up on Page 1 of your equifax, as lawsuits and collections are what start off the Equifax report...
Since the case takes longer than 90 days to settle, we cannot be of any help to them, (you know this is coming) but medpay can...that is the overiding benefit of medpay, plus it will allow you to keep extra $$$ if your med bills are paid...group ins, if it now pays, wants to subrogate and be paid back...
Don't think it helps if the atty calls the hospital and tells them s/he will protect the bill (I do protect the bills, but I am in the minority)...most attys screw the hospital and the other docs, so they have learned to ignore the attys and simply send them to collections...some places only wait 60 days instead of 90, as they "see the handwriting on the wall"...
Yes, that is why medpay is now more valuable then before, esp if group ins refuses to pay for auto accident care...
Yes I am serious about that statement, sorry I'm STUPID! I have dealt with collection agencies a couple times over the years, each time successfully. It's usually the case of the doctor's office not recording a co-pay that I paid. Luckily I'm anal about keeping receipts for medical services. And each time it never ended up on my credit report.
A client was slightly injured with about $250,000 med bills, burst spleen, multiple fractures and in a coma for 29/30 days...this made me call my own ins agent and ask how one would be covered in this event...
it seems that in the last six months or so, hospitals and their ERs are refusing to bill group health insurance for AA injuries, because now the insurance companies are refusing to pay the claims, taking the position that if there is liability insurance, with another means to pay, then they will not pay the bill
I love it. Let's say I buy plenty of insurance to cover everything: health ins, med pay, UM/UIM, disability, umbrella, etc etc. Now I'm in an auto accident, so now (playing devil's advocate here), all my insurance companies are refusing to pay until guilt is assessed. And since my checking account is a hair south of $250K, I don't have the means to just write a check. Assessing guilt takes some time, hospitals, and doctors want to get paid, my bills go to collections forcing me in to bankruptcy. But hey, what happenned to all that insurance I bought?
I've read and respected your advice here Bob, but this last statement makes me go hmmmmmm.
You aren't stupid at all...it just seems that I do run into these things in my kine of work...
The injuries from the auto accident are what is specifically covered by the medpay...in fact, that is all it was designed for, is the injuries sustained in an auto wreck...while I think it is improper for group ins to refuse to pay, I should not be surprised since any ins will try and wiggle out of paying if they know that there is another possible source of payment...and, what you may not know is that when a hospital or doctor sends in a bill on the form known as the HCFA-1500, there is a box that they must check if it is an illness, home injury, auto injury, or work injury...they have always refused to pay for work injuries, and now they are adding on auto injuries...
BTW, let's play for a minute...if the at fault driver was uninsured and if our injured person did not have medpay, documentation would have to be provided to prove such circumstances, but then group health would pay simply because they would become the provider (payor, actually) of last resort...
But since most folks do have liab ins, they intially refuse payment, so now the monkey falls on the person or their medpay, at least in the short run...over time, liab would be there to pay, but long after the bill was sent to collections...
Let's make it worse...suppose we file a lawsuit...the case will not come to trial for a minimum of 12 months, probably realistically more like 18 months...you think the ER will wait that long in the HOPE of getting paid???...never, and that is why they send to collections after 60 or 90 days, depending on the facility...
Oh, and mike, medpay pays for the wreck injuries REGARDLESS of who is at fault, so that coverage is immediate upon impact...it is not fault related so guilt/liability is immaterial...
Have I made this better or as clear as mud???
Please remember, there really is more to handling an auto claim than just 1) sign up the client; 2)demand 10 million from the insurance in a shortly worded telegram, i.e. "My client is injured...please send 10 million dollars to compensate him for his chronic pinky hangnail; and, 3)deposit that 10 million dollar check in my Trust account...
What I am telling you is just some of the crap that comprises dealing with an auto wreck...most of the clients are surprised when they see how involved it is, as they assumed that it goes like my mythical example above...don't I only wish...:):):)...
should i call my insuance company about a car i hit friday. the pplz i hit have my info. i dont think they have insurance cuz they wont lemmi see it. we didnt call the cops. all they have in a lil dent in their door n maybe scrached paint but u cant tell cuz of all the dirt on the car. my car is perfectly fine. i cant even tell which side of my back bumper hit them.
If the damage is minimal and no one was hurt, I would see if you could handle it without involving your insurance companies. I had this happen with my neighbor and his daughter. I took my car to a friend's body shop and the neighbor paid for the repairs. Saved hundreds of dollars and no friction between neighbors.
I would go back and take pictures of the damage. Since you don't have a relationship with these folks, no telling what they might try. Make sure the pictures have the date recorded on them.
If they are not willing to work with you, then talk to your agent.
To the good advice that you have already been given I would add that when you pay for their repairs have them sign a statement freeing you of ALL further liability.
I have seen cases where minor rear-end accidents have turned into million dollar lawsuits.
In my state the injured party has a year to file suit. You guessed it, most of these suits are filed the day before the time limit expires. Of course by then you have thrown away any information that might have helped you.
When it comes to money don't trust anybody.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I insist that people request a police report...obviously, if the police will not write one, do the best you can, take photos of the scene if you have a camera (film throwaways about $5 each, throw one in each car, or use your cellphone camera if you have one)...
If the police were explained that you need the report to prove liability, they may be more flexible, even if no one receives a ticket...
My car has been declared a total loss by other car (at fault)insurance. They called me to send them my car title. Should I just send in the title without requesting some written documents? What are the formal procedures to sign the title of one’s car over to the other car insurance company?
Don't know how much the vehicle is worth, but if higher value I think I'd be meeting at the insurance company and turning over the title when they turn over the check.
Most drafts can be guaranteed. Often there will be a bank listed on the draft which can be contacted by whatever location is cashing the draft -- once guaranteed, that money should post instantly.
Was involved in a small accident where I clipped the driver's side mirror of another car at very low speed. His mirror was damaged, no mark to my car. We agreed to handle outside of insurance, and he went the next day to have repaired and I had him send me a copy of the bill (about $200). However, he said he spent 6 hours taking care of this and wants me to reimburse him for that time. Is this normal? What is fair? My understanding is that if we had gone through insurance, they might reimburse for a rental car day while car being fixed, but not time spent. Is this correct? Given that I have an email chain speaking only about the mirror, and that bill citing only those charges, does this protect me from further action from him if he doesn't like what I send him? Ethically I want to do the right thing, but also can't afford to be overly generous. Thank you for your help.
Well he has no real "right" to ask you for compensation for his time but on the other hand the man did you a big favor by not getting your insurance company involved--which might have cost you more, had he filed a claim against you and run his car through a body shop. I'm not sure "running around time" is worth the same as actually working on or under a car however.
What's he asking for compensation. If it's like $25 an hour, I'd give it to him. If it's $100 a hour, he's getting greedy.
You agreed to pay for the damage & he approved. Now he wants more? That was not part of the agreement. He spent six hours without prior approval from you or your agreeing to it. Send the $200 to the repair shop, not to him or at least put the name of the shop on the check along with his.
He is lucky you didn't deduct for depreciation of the mirror. A used one from the "Wrecking Yard" might cost only $25.
Shifty gives good advice. I would also "negotiate" or set a reasonable hourly rate and require detailed documentation for his time. You don't go by what he thinks his time is worth because he's not doing his usual work. You use the going rates for the specific tasks (often not far from minimum wage).
If he doesn't accept this then your fallback is that the two of you agreed on a settlement for the cost of repair and, from what you told us, that was ALL you agreed on. One cannot add conditions to a contract, verbal or otherwise, after the fact.
Be sure to withhold taxes (federal, state and local as well as social security) and deduct your expense in doing the bookkeeping/accounting!
the way I see it is that you have a deductible on your insurance, correct? The usual amount is $500. SO, if he did go through your insurance, it would have cost you the cost of the repair only, because as others have stated, your insurance would not pay him for his time. Yes, maybe a rental for the day. So $30-$50. I'd throw him a little incentive. No more than $60. Anymore than that and he is just being greedy and can then go ahead and talk to your insurance company. And, frankly, I think he'd be up a creek since he already made the repair, they would not get to inspect the damages and would probably deny the claim anyway.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Deductible applies to collision coverage not liability. This would have been a claim by the guy with the damaged mirror against the poster's liability coverage, a deductible would not have been involved.
i still think they may deny the claim if he already had it fixed, though. I guess it depends on the company and how cooperative the offending party is. It is a strange area, methinks. I mean, with the emails and the receipt, I would think the guy who got hit would have a leg to stand on, but don't insurance companies require they get to inspect damages and make their own estimates or use their specific repair shops?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Tell him to get bent, what's the worst he can do, take it to small claims? It appears you agreed on the cost-of-repair only, I would stick to that. Furthermore, I would question why it took him six-hours to resolve? I would offer him two days rental at maybe 30.00/day and call it a day.
Of note, however, the original poster likely - certainly - violated his contract with his own carrier by not filing a claim, and then seeking to resolve this claim out-of-pocket ... essentially allowing the other party to destroy any proof of loss that existed. They may still afford coverage, but if they want to deny, they have pretty good grounds.
LOL, you put it so gracefully. But I agree, pay the body shop for the actual bill then give him 30 bucks for his "time", which would have been the cost of a rental car anyway. And by all means OP, tell him we said to get bent, LOL.
Actually, we said the same thing only a bit more diplomatically and not as graphically.
Welllll... while you both stated the original poster wasn't bound by law to provide any further compensation, you both did say you would. Shifty saying $25 an hour would be appropriate, and cheap ole Tidester saying minimum wage.
Now being a more "diplomatic" Jipster, I'd tell the guy to," Get half vertical and half horizontal." :P
You guys are cruel. You should have met the _____ that was driving the BMW I brushed against, bending HIS mirror. He refused to exchange names, even after I told him I really needed to get to a play I had tickets for. He demanded I stay there while he called the California Highway Patrol. The cop arrived, looked at the situation, and I swear I thought he was going to shoot this Type A with the veins bulging out of his head.
So given the miserable evening, I would have gladly paid for the mirror and $25 a hour for fetching time.
I think it's out of order to completely blow the guy off.
I might safely assume that he didn't wash it either? Or did he? I remember the last time I borrowed a truck to move furniture from a very, very good friend of mine I did it as a way of saying Thank You, in addition to filling it up.
Well, you shouldn't call names. But, the 2 parties had a verbal agreement(contract) that $200 would be paid to replace the mirror. If anyone is being cruel it is the guy wanting to renege (back out of the agreement) and squeeze this guy for every penny he can. I would nicely tell the guy that the agreement was that I would pay him $200 and that I fulfilled my obligation... no blowing the guy off.
I sure wouldn't be giving him the $150 more that you are advocating. If he hadn't come up with this, "extra money for his time" bull, I'd probably shoot him a $30 gift card... being the magnanimous person I am. :shades:
well, shifty, I can't speak to the guys overall attitude, but I can't blame him one bit for wanting to wait for a cop. I've had problems twice now with people who took full blame on the scene and said they'd do everything to make it right, so I didn't call the cops. BAD idea! I will never fall for that again! Everything worked out in the end under these circumstances, but my life would have been much less stressful with a report on the scene.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Which party in this transaction FIRST suggested not to go through insurance?
If Party A who is at fault asks Party B not to report it, and then Party B runs all around town to get the best deal for Party A, and then Party A won't reward Party B, then I think it sucks.
If on the other hand, Party B is gouging on repairs, then party B hasn't really done Party A a favor.
I had a guy back into my Porsche...he left a note (!!) so I went to any length to help him. Didn't report it to insurance, brought it to a friends shop for very reasonable repairs, and let the other person pay the shop bill on his VISA.
That worked out great for everyone.
As for the BMW guy who insisted on calling a cop on a rainy evening for a chip in his rearview mirror, that was a complete waste of everyone's time. It was obvious he wanted to punish me.
I always insist on calling the police, even if it is my fault...
You wouldn't believe what people can say later...
Now, I wouldn't be in that situation, since I would have called the police... but, assuming the guy did me a favor by not calling the police, I might offer him $30-$40 for his time and trouble, hoping that would just end the situation...
If he gave me a lot of crap about it, I'd tell him to forget it, and that I was calling my insurance company.. I always vote for being a nice guy, until it is obvious that the other guy is trying to get rich off me..
The last time it happened to me, it wasn't even going to affect me personally, but it just really ticked me off. I was stopped waiting to make a left turn. About 20 seconds go by and I get hit in the rear. Get out and find that someone else struck the person who struck me. We all pull into the parking lot I was waiting to turn into. Woman who hit me says it was all her fault. Says she hit me with her new Sienna, then the kid hit her with his new Scion Tc. Nobody has big damage. We all exchange info.
I call her insurance that night. Next night, the kid's insurance calls me. They explain that the woman says he pushed her into me! First off, a Tc pushing a Sienna hard enough to bend my bumper brackets would have to get really screwed up in the process. The Tc had a dinged bumper only. Second, of course, the woman was changing her story. I told them exactly what she said at the scene. Blah blah blah. Anyway, short of it was, the kid's insurance paid for everything. I felt really bad about it. I even called the kid and told him what the woman was doing and I was not blaming him, etc. But what can ya do at that point? I hope he knows now, as I do, ALWAYS call the cops!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Believe me, if someone broke my side view mirror and I didn't get a good feeling about the person, I'd just let them skate on the whole thing rather than go through all the drama. I've done that before and never regretted it. Sometimes you just get out of your car, see a small scrape on your bumper, look into those vacant shifty eyes of the car-full of unemployed stoners who hit you, and you know this is a complete waste of time.
With serious damage of course, I behave differently. I got the camera and cell phone and accident form out in front first thing. This way I'm saying "I mean business" from the get go.
It is possible the guy with the broken mirror does NOT have any insurance & knows if reported to the state, it would backfire on him via the state Financial Responsibility Law.
It is possible he was driving his mistress' car & doesn't want his wife to become aware of his behavior.
Send him $25 and the address of the nearest wrecking yard.
Comments
Which in MA gets you $15 a day for coverage. Try renting a car for $15. To get $30 a day will cost over $100 a year - twice the coverage for five times the cost.
Again, you make your choices and you deal with the consequences. I've been lucky enough that any rental costs I've dealt with were paid by the other company.
You may also want to enlighten the at fault driver that by their insurer by failing to fully protect them and pay all of your loss, they may have breeched their contract with them and they will have some credit history damage with even a small claims suit against them.
Your appraiser had better include documentation on how he can substantiate his figures and that he just didnt pull them out of thin air. One state,Georgia uses a formula known as 17C to calculate this loss and it is to be used only in absence of no other formulas used as a minimum amount owed. Other insurers attempt to use this rule in other states where it means nothing.
Sometimes it helps to enlist the aid of a news organization print and tv to bring to light your case for DV. No insurer likes bad publicitiy as they spend so much in commercials making you feel warm and fuzzy trusting that they will be there for you in your time of need.
Again this is not to be construed as legal advice, ask your attorney friend how it should be pursued.
I am NOT disputing the quality of the repair. I actually complained at every step that no after market parts be put on my car. That being said, they did do 12 hours of labor to the main support pillar. So they put all new OEM parts on a frame that they beat and pulled. Now if I claim the body shop did not do my repairs correct, all they are going to do is send the car back to the shop.
I am trying to recover Inherent Diminished value. As long as I can sell/trade my car and not be "upside down" I will be happy.
Here in GA, I would guess that the average auto case, w/o a lawsuit, settles about 5-9 months after the wreck, also assuming "average" (whatever that is) length of treatment...I recommend medpay because it will pay med bills within 2 weeks of submission...w/o medpay, waiting for liability insurance to pay means it must wait until settlement, 5-9 months post accident...the problem is that most hospitals and major large medical clinics are on 30/60/90 day billing cycles, and after 90 days the account is sent to a collection firm (agency or lawyer)...so, the minor cost (here) of medpay can prevent ruining of someone's credit...
Something I forgot to mention, and I kick myself for forgetting...it seems that in the last six months or so, hospitals and their ERs are refusing to bill group health insurance for AA injuries, because now the insurance companies are refusing to pay the claims, taking the position that if there is liability insurance, with another means to pay, then they will not pay the bill...so, here in GA, w/o medpay means you may have no other means to pay even if you have your group policy...not all ins companies are doing this, but the ERs take a blanket position that they will not bill group and wait for refusal, they just want payment from liability...while I am not sure if group is standing on form legal ground, that is not part of my representation...so, here in GA, medpay, IMO, becomes even more mandatory for proper coverage than I previously stated...YMMV...:):)
Something else I learned about 4 years ago, and it caused me to add to my coverage...
A client was slightly injured with about $250,000 med bills, burst spleen, multiple fractures and in a coma for 29/30 days...the at fault party only had $25K coverage and lived in a trailer with a 12 year old car (I am not against trailers or 12 year old cars, but this is often a good indicator of something, I will let you guess what it is)...we naturally settled for the $25K...this made me call my own ins agent and ask how one would be covered in this event...
They told me to add a $1 mil umbrella policy to my Uninsured/underinsured policy, so that if I was severely damaged and they had minimum limits, I could recover from the umbrella...since most umbrella policies raise your liability to the other party, this one raised it to cover me...the cost???...only $150 per year...worth it???...to me, yes...
Maybe my vision is skewed because since I see numerous cases where a person is not only physically damaged in the wreck, but then financially damaged, often permanently, which would have been avoided if they carried the coverages I constantly recommend here...
Maybe I am biased because as an atty, I may see these consequences in clients more in a year than most folks see in their lifetime, so when I am aware that it could have been dramatically helped/prevented by simple inexpensive insurance (inexpensive in the sense that the extra coverages I recommend often cost much less than the basic liab/comp/coll that they already buy) I jump on that bandwagon...
Regardless of someone's 30 year accident-free driving history, the odds of being in a serious collision are always there...anyone could run a stop sign or red light, a concrete truck or semi could lose its brakes on a hill and rearend you, and your driving skills are worthless to stop it...the ONLY thing the extra coverages would do is help out in the financial sense, since everyone wants to be paid, no one wants to pay out of their pocket, and, like it or not, most injured people believe they deserve some compensation for their injuries...unless you are dealing with Bill Gates, someone's insurance, yours or theirs, is what will pay those costs...
So, while you argue with me on what is and is not necessary, I see my job here as trying to inform folks of coverages that may be available to them that their insurance agent did not tell them, or explained poorly, and maybe with increased knowledge they will make better choices in the future...
If you do not want to insure against the risk, don't...but when the catastrophic auto accident strikes, AND I HOPE IT NEVER DOES, you will be glad you had the coverage, and sorry if you don't...
Could you beat the odds and never have the serious accident???...of course, most folks go thru their lives like that...but since you never know if it is your turn tom'w to be totalled by a jackknifing tractor trailer at 60 mph on a rainy interstate, I think having the coverage is prudent, wise, and quite inexpensive compared to what it would cost you if the major wreck happened and you didn't have the coverage...
Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I hadn't seen the various cases I have seen, but I feel enlightened and grateful to have the knowledge from the injuries of others, rather than my own...
I believe in insuring myself against risk, and I believe that others should do the same...what they do is up to them, but at least I made them aware of what is out there, and then they can make an informed decision...
Better to refuse medpay, or UM umbrella insurance, knowing what it is and how it can help you, than not knowing what it is and never having the choice to make the decision...when I think of the number of folks I see that tell me that no one ever offered them medpay, I see it as my job to explain it to them...an informed choice is better than not buying it due to lack of knowledge...
Further, I add my thoughts HERE so others can hopefully learn more about a field that is usually foreign to them, and that is insurance...I hammer home my thoughts because I have gleaned knowledge over the years that may help them out, and, no, I do not get paid for it, but I try like hell so that folks will understand something that their agents never take the time to tell them.............
I only try to help, enlighten and teach, so other may not have to suffer in the event of a wreck...I also acknowledge that my thoughts are general, as they specifically apply only in GA, but the principles are probably fairly universal in many, if not most states...
However, YMMV...........................
In the example you gave, how can that ruin someone's credit? My understanding is that a medical bill is not "credit" such as a loan or credit card. I have had disputes with doctors in the past and have flat out refused to pay as they were out right wrong and they felt they were in the right, yet it never ended up on my credit report, which I check yearly.
Medical bills CAN and DO ruin credit. Take it from someone with a chronically ill child, medical bills can destroy a person financially. Its taken us a long time to get through it, including going through a bankruptcy.
We carry med pay on our car insurance, but after reading stuff here I think I'm going to raise the amount!
Based on your last post, your main objective is to not be upside down when you trade in your car. I doubt that is going to happen unless you put 20% down when you purchased the vehicle. Cars depreciate the most in the first year. Even if you did not have the accident, you may still be upside down depending on how much you owe. If your car was worth $20k before the accident and now worth $17k, but your loan amount is $24k. I wouldn't expect a check for $7k to make you whole; More like $3k, to cover the difference in value between pre- and post-accident.
You should continue working with your agent but going this route will give you a sense of what you can expect and you cna decide whether or not you want to continue with your course of action.
Good luck.
Tell me you aren't serious with that statement...when a hospital or a doctor provides a service (for an auto accident w/o fractures, but including x-rays, the average ER bill is $1500-2000, the avg radiologist bill is $100-150, and the avg ER doctors bill is about $300) if it is not paid within 90 days, they send the bill to either a collection agency or collection lawyer, and it hits their Equifax shortly thereafter...
The credit issued is EXACTLY like a credit card or a loan, except that the individual medical facility is almost never a member of Equifax (like Visa or Chase Bank) but once it goes to collections, THAT will hit your Equifax and it is now no different than a nonpayment on Visa, except that it will now show up on Page 1 of your equifax, as lawsuits and collections are what start off the Equifax report...
Since the case takes longer than 90 days to settle, we cannot be of any help to them, (you know this is coming) but medpay can...that is the overiding benefit of medpay, plus it will allow you to keep extra $$$ if your med bills are paid...group ins, if it now pays, wants to subrogate and be paid back...
Don't think it helps if the atty calls the hospital and tells them s/he will protect the bill (I do protect the bills, but I am in the minority)...most attys screw the hospital and the other docs, so they have learned to ignore the attys and simply send them to collections...some places only wait 60 days instead of 90, as they "see the handwriting on the wall"...
Yes, that is why medpay is now more valuable then before, esp if group ins refuses to pay for auto accident care...
Do you not have health insurance?
Do you not have disability insurance?
I love it. Let's say I buy plenty of insurance to cover everything: health ins, med pay, UM/UIM, disability, umbrella, etc etc. Now I'm in an auto accident, so now (playing devil's advocate here), all my insurance companies are refusing to pay until guilt is assessed. And since my checking account is a hair south of $250K, I don't have the means to just write a check. Assessing guilt takes some time, hospitals, and doctors want to get paid, my bills go to collections forcing me in to bankruptcy. But hey, what happenned to all that insurance I bought?
I've read and respected your advice here Bob, but this last statement makes me go hmmmmmm.
The injuries from the auto accident are what is specifically covered by the medpay...in fact, that is all it was designed for, is the injuries sustained in an auto wreck...while I think it is improper for group ins to refuse to pay, I should not be surprised since any ins will try and wiggle out of paying if they know that there is another possible source of payment...and, what you may not know is that when a hospital or doctor sends in a bill on the form known as the HCFA-1500, there is a box that they must check if it is an illness, home injury, auto injury, or work injury...they have always refused to pay for work injuries, and now they are adding on auto injuries...
BTW, let's play for a minute...if the at fault driver was uninsured and if our injured person did not have medpay, documentation would have to be provided to prove such circumstances, but then group health would pay simply because they would become the provider (payor, actually) of last resort...
But since most folks do have liab ins, they intially refuse payment, so now the monkey falls on the person or their medpay, at least in the short run...over time, liab would be there to pay, but long after the bill was sent to collections...
Let's make it worse...suppose we file a lawsuit...the case will not come to trial for a minimum of 12 months, probably realistically more like 18 months...you think the ER will wait that long in the HOPE of getting paid???...never, and that is why they send to collections after 60 or 90 days, depending on the facility...
Oh, and mike, medpay pays for the wreck injuries REGARDLESS of who is at fault, so that coverage is immediate upon impact...it is not fault related so guilt/liability is immaterial...
Have I made this better or as clear as mud???
Please remember, there really is more to handling an auto claim than just 1) sign up the client; 2)demand 10 million from the insurance in a shortly worded telegram, i.e. "My client is injured...please send 10 million dollars to compensate him for his chronic pinky hangnail; and,
3)deposit that 10 million dollar check in my Trust account...
What I am telling you is just some of the crap that comprises dealing with an auto wreck...most of the clients are surprised when they see how involved it is, as they assumed that it goes like my mythical example above...don't I only wish...:):):)...
I actually owe $17,500 on the car so I hope to be in OK shape.
I am preparing my case and will be contacting the agent soon. I will update with progress on my case.
And what do you consider seriously injured??
I would go back and take pictures of the damage. Since you don't have a relationship with these folks, no telling what they might try. Make sure the pictures have the date recorded on them.
If they are not willing to work with you, then talk to your agent.
To the good advice that you have already been given I would add that when you pay for their repairs have them sign a statement freeing you of ALL further liability.
I have seen cases where minor rear-end accidents have turned into million dollar lawsuits.
In my state the injured party has a year to file suit. You guessed it, most of these suits are filed the day before the time limit expires. Of course by then you have thrown away any information that might have helped you.
When it comes to money don't trust anybody.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We inspected her car and found a lot of previous damage so I asked for new estimates for only the damage we were to pay for.
She argued so I advised her that "Rust doesn't form overnight." Never heard from her again.
So, as you say, When it comes to money don't trust anybody
If the police were explained that you need the report to prove liability, they may be more flexible, even if no one receives a ticket...
It will ften say in the upper right corner some wording about "Draft"...
Thank you for your help.
What's he asking for compensation. If it's like $25 an hour, I'd give it to him. If it's $100 a hour, he's getting greedy.
He is lucky you didn't deduct for depreciation of the mirror. A used one from the "Wrecking Yard" might cost only $25.
Shifty gives good advice. I would also "negotiate" or set a reasonable hourly rate and require detailed documentation for his time. You don't go by what he thinks his time is worth because he's not doing his usual work. You use the going rates for the specific tasks (often not far from minimum wage).
If he doesn't accept this then your fallback is that the two of you agreed on a settlement for the cost of repair and, from what you told us, that was ALL you agreed on. One cannot add conditions to a contract, verbal or otherwise, after the fact.
Be sure to withhold taxes (federal, state and local as well as social security) and deduct your expense in doing the bookkeeping/accounting!
tidester, host
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
i still think they may deny the claim if he already had it fixed, though. I guess it depends on the company and how cooperative the offending party is. It is a strange area, methinks. I mean, with the emails and the receipt, I would think the guy who got hit would have a leg to stand on, but don't insurance companies require they get to inspect damages and make their own estimates or use their specific repair shops?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Of note, however, the original poster likely - certainly - violated his contract with his own carrier by not filing a claim, and then seeking to resolve this claim out-of-pocket ... essentially allowing the other party to destroy any proof of loss that existed. They may still afford coverage, but if they want to deny, they have pretty good grounds.
LOL, you put it so gracefully. But I agree, pay the body shop for the actual bill then give him 30 bucks for his "time", which would have been the cost of a rental car anyway. And by all means OP, tell him we said to get bent, LOL.
Actually, we said the same thing only a bit more diplomatically and not as graphically. :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Welllll... while you both stated the original poster wasn't bound by law to provide any further compensation, you both did say you would. Shifty saying $25 an hour would be appropriate, and cheap ole Tidester saying minimum wage.
Now being a more "diplomatic" Jipster, I'd tell the guy to," Get half vertical and half horizontal." :P
So given the miserable evening, I would have gladly paid for the mirror and $25 a hour for fetching time.
I think it's out of order to completely blow the guy off.
Or did he?
I remember the last time I borrowed a truck to move furniture from a very, very good friend of mine I did it as a way of saying Thank You, in addition to filling it up.
Well, you shouldn't call names. But, the 2 parties had a verbal agreement(contract) that $200 would be paid to replace the mirror. If anyone is being cruel it is the guy wanting to renege (back out of the agreement) and squeeze this guy for every penny he can. I would nicely tell the guy that the agreement was that I would pay him $200 and that I fulfilled my obligation... no blowing the guy off.
I sure wouldn't be giving him the $150 more that you are advocating. If he hadn't come up with this, "extra money for his time" bull, I'd probably shoot him a $30 gift card... being the magnanimous person I am. :shades:
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Which party in this transaction FIRST suggested not to go through insurance?
If Party A who is at fault asks Party B not to report it, and then Party B runs all around town to get the best deal for Party A, and then Party A won't reward Party B, then I think it sucks.
If on the other hand, Party B is gouging on repairs, then party B hasn't really done Party A a favor.
I had a guy back into my Porsche...he left a note (!!) so I went to any length to help him. Didn't report it to insurance, brought it to a friends shop for very reasonable repairs, and let the other person pay the shop bill on his VISA.
That worked out great for everyone.
As for the BMW guy who insisted on calling a cop on a rainy evening for a chip in his rearview mirror, that was a complete waste of everyone's time. It was obvious he wanted to punish me.
I always insist on calling the police, even if it is my fault...
You wouldn't believe what people can say later...
Now, I wouldn't be in that situation, since I would have called the police... but, assuming the guy did me a favor by not calling the police, I might offer him $30-$40 for his time and trouble, hoping that would just end the situation...
If he gave me a lot of crap about it, I'd tell him to forget it, and that I was calling my insurance company.. I always vote for being a nice guy, until it is obvious that the other guy is trying to get rich off me..
regards,
kyfdx
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Exactly.
The last time it happened to me, it wasn't even going to affect me personally, but it just really ticked me off. I was stopped waiting to make a left turn. About 20 seconds go by and I get hit in the rear. Get out and find that someone else struck the person who struck me. We all pull into the parking lot I was waiting to turn into. Woman who hit me says it was all her fault. Says she hit me with her new Sienna, then the kid hit her with his new Scion Tc. Nobody has big damage. We all exchange info.
I call her insurance that night. Next night, the kid's insurance calls me. They explain that the woman says he pushed her into me! First off, a Tc pushing a Sienna hard enough to bend my bumper brackets would have to get really screwed up in the process. The Tc had a dinged bumper only. Second, of course, the woman was changing her story. I told them exactly what she said at the scene. Blah blah blah. Anyway, short of it was, the kid's insurance paid for everything. I felt really bad about it. I even called the kid and told him what the woman was doing and I was not blaming him, etc. But what can ya do at that point? I hope he knows now, as I do, ALWAYS call the cops!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
With serious damage of course, I behave differently. I got the camera and cell phone and accident form out in front first thing. This way I'm saying "I mean business" from the get go.
It is possible the guy with the broken mirror does NOT have any insurance & knows if reported to the state, it would backfire on him via the state Financial Responsibility Law.
It is possible he was driving his mistress' car & doesn't want his wife to become aware of his behavior.
Send him $25 and the address of the nearest wrecking yard.
And even then I think I'm being overly generous! :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper