I''m still confused then. If you have only UIM, you don't have UMPD or UMBI, right? UM has 2 areas of coverage. Property Damage & Bodily Injury
Isn't UMPD part of comp/collision? No, but physical damage qualifies.
Can you buy UMPD or UMBI without comp/collision? Yes, many do.
I know for a fact that UIM doesn't cover hit and run PD, because it's been denied to me twice in the past. (on cars where I didn't have comp/coll at the time). Perhaps you had only UMBI. UMPD covers hit and run.
Me, too. I remember thinking when tat happened what an idiot he had to have been to have that happen.
I also remember someone's really wacky reaction piece saying how Rubin went down as counterculture icon even breaking the law in death. That was ridiculous. At that point he was more establishment than almost anyone.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
insurance is like this...here in GA, it is sold as a separate option...oddly, if you don't want it, you must sign a document stating that you were offered it and you refused it (covers the ins co for whn you are injured by a UM driver and now have no recourse for your injuries)...
It is sold with limits like liability ins, as a package...25/50/25...25K liability for one person, 50K liability for the entire wreck, 25K in property damage...to my understanding, your UM limits can equal, but never exceed, your basic liability limits...so, if your liability is 50/100/50, you could not purchase UM limits of 100/300/100...
UM can be sold is you do not have comp or collision, simply because they serve different functions...if you have a 72 Chevy Nova, it is worth $100...no comp or collision needed...but to cover your possible injuries, you could have UM limits of 50/100/50, because you can be injured the same in a 72 Nova or a 2006 Buick, the injury has nothing to do with the car...
Which is why I reco to GA clients that they carry the 50K medpay, because the 72 Nova may be worth $100, but you could still be injured with hospitalization and surgery in that car...so, when folks say to me that they only carry liability on that cheap car, I ask them what would they do if the other guy caused their serious injuries, or the Nova blew a master cylinder, they lost their brakes, and ran into a concrete piling at 50 mph...
I never thought I'd say this but now I'm kind of glad that Florida is a no fault state. With all the examples you mentioned, my PIP would kick in first, up to $10K, then for me and my family my own medical insurance would kick in.
Because my unrelated and friendly passengers may not have Medical Insurance, but look to me for paying their med bills following my at fault crash, I carry $35,000 PIP, upper limits of BI & PD with corresponding UMBIPD. Comp & Collision = high deductibles, but only collision on one car which kicks in when I rent a vehicle.
I understand your reasoning, but the reason I always reco Medpay (in a fault state like GA) is that your family is covered by your group health, but I am not...if I am in a wreck in your car in FL, I may not have coverage over PIP, but you do...
If you have a wreck in my car here in GA while I drive, you have the benefit of my 100K medpay coverage as all occupants of my car...
Let's say I own a home worth $100,000. My car crashes into a rich person's house, setting their art collection on fire and causing $1,000,000 in damage. My car insurance policy covers $50,000 in damages. Would this mean that I would lose my house? I am asking because I am trying to gain a better understanding of how automobile liability coverage works.
Not in Florida, every state is different, but here in Florida they can't touch your home no matter how much of a home you own, can't touch any retirement accounts, and not sure what else they can't go after but it's pretty extensive.
Here in GA, they could sue you for the amount over $50K and get a judgment...with that judgment, they can garnish your paycheck, garnish lump sums from bank accounts, or file it in the GED (general execution docket) and it could become a lien against your home...they cannot make you sell the house, but as long as the lien exists (and must be renewed every 7 years) you would have to pay it when you finally sold the house...
Reminds me of what happened to my cousin's husband maybe 20 years ago. He had restored a Rolls and was taking his kid to school when some clown not paying attention rear ends him. I'm just thinking of his agent saying "you rear ended a WHAT?!?"
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
"Reminds me of what happened to my cousin's husband maybe 20 years ago. He had restored a Rolls and was taking his kid to school when some clown not paying attention rear ends him. I'm just thinking of his agent saying "you rear ended a WHAT?!?"
The legal minimum property damage liability coverage in Georgia is $25k. The vast majority of drivers only have the legal minimum...even though the average price of a new car was over $29k last year. Luxury/premium brands (Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, M-B, Audi, Volvo, Saab, et al.) sales total well over 1-million per year....and they start in they're from the low 30s up to the same price as a small island!
I carry $100k PD liability, I'm covered if I destroy 99% of cars on the road...and I stay far away from the other 1%! Seriously, if I see a Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls or high-end Mercedes in front of me, I'll change lanes if possible or fall back a few hundred feet at least...
Some states require as little as $10k in PD liability, I would be interested to see the Underinsured Motorist rates and the incidence of court cases in those states!!!
If your concern is protecting your own home, you obviously would want a homeowners policy.
If you are talking about a large loss because you destroyed someone else's home, a $1 million umbrella policy provides an additional $1 million of coverage over and above both your auto liability and homeowners liability coverage. Cost a couple of hundred dollars.
"The legal minimum property damage liability coverage in Georgia is $25k. The vast majority of drivers only have the legal minimum..."
You are correct...it was just a few years ago that the legal minimum in GA was 15/25/15...the legislature finally realized that even rednecks with their pickup trucks can spend over $30K on a moderately equipped truck, so they finally raised the minimum legal limit...
a $1 million umbrella policy provides an additional $1 million of coverage over and above both your auto liability and homeowners liability coverage. Cost a couple of hundred dollars.
Unless you have a teenage driver... Then, it gets up into the $600-$900 range, really fast...
MY son worked overseas for a year, and I lowered his insurance to the bare minimum as required by the state of Florida so that he wouldn't show a lapse in coverage, and the minimum was $10K of only property, I was stunned. His vehicle sat in my driveway the whole time and it was about $60 for the 6 months so not a big deal.
"umbrella policy provides an additional $1 million of coverage over and above both your auto liability and homeowners liability coverage. Cost a couple of hundred dollars. ".
Yet some Umbrellas consider the underlays of coverage as part of the $1 million giving a total of $1 million. In other words they don't stack. " Read the fine print" applies again.
FYI ... you won't be able to get an umbrella pollicy without certain significant underlying limits. In case you were thinking to get minimum coverage and then toss an economically priced umbrella as a sort of General Liability policy ... no can do.
I understand, however, I am referring to a basic underlying coverage of $500,000 CSL. I've seen some Umbrellas that will only provide an additional $500,000 to make the 1 Million Umbrella. This is non stacking, but the preferred is to have th basic 1/2 million and a million or two above that totaling either 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 million total.
So how come people recommend that only people with a lot of assets carry lots of liability coverage or umbrella coverage? Is it because if there is a lawsuit against you, the amount they can recover is somehow based on your net worth/assets?
It's kind of odd, but yes...if you have a lot of assets, meaning that your odds of filing bankruptcy are low, than have the 1 or 2 million umbrella policy means that you will not have to dip into your funds to pay out a possible claim that might reach hundreds of 1000s of dollars (say you cripple a 20 year old or a person loses an arm in a wreck you caused)...
If you have zero assets, you can either be considered "judgment-proof" (which really means "collection proof" as the judgment is still there) or you would be one who might file Chapter 7 and simply wipe out the judgment against you (with certain exceptions, like DUI)...
Plus if you have assets or deep pockets, you're more likely to be sued than a turnip. Insurance will hopefully cover the legal fees, and they can add up fast, and you're stuck paying most of them even if you win the case.
If you cause a wreck and you are sued, legal fees are included in addition to any payout the other side is awarded...also, many folks who sue the "turnips" on their own (without an attorney) often find out that that they got their judgment but they assume that collecting it is done by the court...HA...HA...HA...when they find out that the guy is a turnip, they often wonder why they went thru the hassle...
In other words, if they went to an attorney, the scuzzy lawyer would have sat them down and said this, "Look, he was driving a 72 Nova with bald tires and broken headlights...he has no insurance...he lives in a mobile home with no roof and he rents the space the mobile home sits on...he delivers pizza and is only paid in cash tips...maybe you ought to consider that this guy is judgment-proof (which I explained earlier really means collection-proof)"...
Then, of course, the response is always, "But I got my rights and he hurt me in the wreck...he has to pay for my damages"
I respond that is why YOU should have had medpay for the doctor bills and uninsured motorists insurance to cover for people like him...
The they get mad at me because I won't waste my time on their case...
Then, of course, the response is always, "But I got my rights and he hurt me in the wreck...he has to pay for my damages"
I respond that is why YOU should have had medpay for the doctor bills and uninsured motorists insurance to cover for people like him...
As a newly licensed P&C agent (just passed the exam last week, on my first attempt!), I have a new perspective on the importance of several ‘optional’ coverages.
I have always declined MedPay coverage using the rationale that I have health insurance coverage, so I don’t need it. But there are a few potential issues with that reasoning-
1- More and more major medical carriers are specifically excluding coverage for auto accident injuries 2- My heath insurance doesn’t cover passengers injured in my vehicle; if they lack coverage of their own, they could sue me for their medical expenses. 3- And MedPay also covers a lot more injuries than I realized- fingers caught in slamming door or closing window are covered; if grandma falls getting in or out, it will pay; even if I’m a pedestrian and hit by a car, it pays
I just added $10k per person (per occurrence) to my policy for less than $4 per month!
In Georgia, Uninsured Motorist coverage automatically becomes Under-insured Motorist coverage if another driver causes damage that exceeds his limits of liability! If he has the minimum 25/50/25 limits and causes me to have $40k in injuries, his policy will only pay $25k and my UM coverage will pick up the remaining $15k. The same holds true for property damage. BUT my UM coverage limits must be higher than 25/50/25 for this to occur. At my present limits of 100/300/25, it would pay the $15k for bodily injury. I only carry 25k UM property damage coverage because my car is only worth about $10k. When I buy a new car someday, I’ll increase that amount to $50k most likely.
Long story short- I choose to cover my @ss (literally and figuratively) from the idiots driving without insurance or with insufficient insurance! In a perfect world, everyone would follow the rules and take responsibility for his/her actions, BUT in the real world, it’s up to me to protect myself!
"I have always declined MedPay coverage using the rationale that I have health insurance coverage, so I don’t need it. But there are a few potential issues with that reasoning-
1- More and more major medical carriers are specifically excluding coverage for auto accident injuries 2- My heath insurance doesn’t cover passengers injured in my vehicle; if they lack coverage of their own, they could sue me for their medical expenses."
#1: Normally, the health insurer will pay for the injuries, but then they will subrogate and get paid back out of the settlement...medpay usually does not subrogate...
#2: this is a very important reason why I tell folks to have medpay, to cover the OTHER folks in the wreck with no hassles whatsoever...if it is related to the wreck, medpay pays quickly and your passengers don't get sent to collection agencies...you finally "get it"...most folks do not...
if you can get $10K in medpay for $4 a month, check and see what you get for $7 or 10 a month...I pay $6 a month for $100K coverage...
" I only carry 25k UM property damage coverage because my car is only worth about $10k. "
Remember to not rent a vehicle worth more than 25K.
Don't let the Underwriters get to you as they will develop your patience over the years. Just about the time when you have one broken in, they replace him with another for you to train.
I was an independent agent from '56 to '95. I owned 4 agencies, had a ball, made a lot of money (via profit sharing bonus') & remain in the locality so as to dance with the people who paid for the band.
Don't spend all you make, but invest in equities for retirement years.
I'm still not sure I quite understand why large liability limits or umbrella coverage is recommended only for rich people or people who own stuff like a house.
Let me try and explain how I understand it...suppose you caused a wreck that crippled someone with $250 in meds and a jury awarded them one million $$$ for damages, like meds, pain and suffering...if you had no insurance, YOU would be responsible to pay that $1 million...most folks I know cannot write a check for a million bucks (maybe you can)...so, they can garnish your paycheck ad put a lien against your home and any other property you may own...but, most folks have anywhere from $25K-50K in liability limits...
So, insurance would pay their limits and you are still on the hook for the balance...by having a million dollar umbrella policy, the policy would pay out and you would protect your paycheck and your home from any garnishments or liens...
Those who have assets they could LOSE are the best candidates for umbrella policies and high limits...the unemployed guy with a 65 Chevy Nova would not be worth suing, as he has no assets to sieze, and so he has no assets to protect...
Now, if you are Bill Gates and CAN write a check for a million dollars, ignore what I just said...
But the guy with no assets is still on the hook, right? I mean, he doesn't just walk. He's in debt for life, he'll never get credit, and if he does gain some assets, they'll be taken.
True, but a judgment is still a judgment, even if you don't collect.
Me? I'd patiently and dispassionately pursue someone through the frozen snowfields of Siberia for .10 cents on the dollar if they caused me or my family serious and substantial pain and suffering. They'd never own two pairs of shoes.
" I'd say an attorney working on a 30% of settlement basis wouldn't bother touching the case because 30% of nothing is nothing."
robr2 comment above is correct, Shifty, and so are you...the judgment still stands, and the deadbeat still owes the $$$, but the chance of collecting are about the same as the chances of winning the lottery...
well maybe the deadbeat will win the lottery!!---you know how life works to reward the undeserving---the 94 year old man wins the Corvette in the raffle, that sort of thing.
After the crash & before the court convenes, your carrier advises you by letter: " Inasmuch as we expect the jury to award an amount in excess of your policy limits, we advise you to seek separate counsel for defense of those excess limits."
One of the best reasons for high limits and high deductilbles.
But the guy with no assets is still on the hook, right? I mean, he doesn't just walk. He's in debt for life, he'll never get credit, and if he does gain some assets, they'll be taken.
If this was true, then wouldn't it make sense for poor people to also buy umbrella coverage?
In a perfect world, yes...but the "poor" are usually collection-proof, as you have no way to garnish their assets...they have no checking account, due to the fact that they bounce checks everywhere...their paycheck, assuming there is one, is cashed at the bank where the check was issued, and they pay their bills (light bill, food, etc) with cash or money orders...they live under the radar, similar to illegal immigrants...
And, the fact they are the "poor" means they the last thing they will do is cover themselves financially with adequate insurance, as you would be lucky for them to carry minimum liability limits...they are usually completely uninsured and drive their cars illegally...plus, the car is like a 72 Nova, worth $50 on a good day, and they live in a mobile home that is probably in the condition of most homes AFTER the flood and fires struck, meaning that a tent would have more value...I am sure they have a big screen TV to watch Oprah and the football games, but it isn't worth going after them on the chance they have a $500 TV as their only asset...
Comments
Isn't UMPD part of comp/collision? No, but physical damage qualifies.
Can you buy UMPD or UMBI without comp/collision? Yes, many do.
I know for a fact that UIM doesn't cover hit and run PD, because it's been denied to me twice in the past. (on cars where I didn't have comp/coll at the time). Perhaps you had only UMBI. UMPD covers hit and run.
I also remember someone's really wacky reaction piece saying how Rubin went down as counterculture icon even breaking the law in death. That was ridiculous. At that point he was more establishment than almost anyone.
It is sold with limits like liability ins, as a package...25/50/25...25K liability for one person, 50K liability for the entire wreck, 25K in property damage...to my understanding, your UM limits can equal, but never exceed, your basic liability limits...so, if your liability is 50/100/50, you could not purchase UM limits of 100/300/100...
UM can be sold is you do not have comp or collision, simply because they serve different functions...if you have a 72 Chevy Nova, it is worth $100...no comp or collision needed...but to cover your possible injuries, you could have UM limits of 50/100/50, because you can be injured the same in a 72 Nova or a 2006 Buick, the injury has nothing to do with the car...
Which is why I reco to GA clients that they carry the 50K medpay, because the 72 Nova may be worth $100, but you could still be injured with hospitalization and surgery in that car...so, when folks say to me that they only carry liability on that cheap car, I ask them what would they do if the other guy caused their serious injuries, or the Nova blew a master cylinder, they lost their brakes, and ran into a concrete piling at 50 mph...
If you have a wreck in my car here in GA while I drive, you have the benefit of my 100K medpay coverage as all occupants of my car...
Not in Florida, every state is different, but here in Florida they can't touch your home no matter how much of a home you own, can't touch any retirement accounts, and not sure what else they can't go after but it's pretty extensive.
Why do you think OJ retired here? :shades:
Or, file Chapter 7 and wipe out the judgment...
The legal minimum property damage liability coverage in Georgia is $25k. The vast majority of drivers only have the legal minimum...even though the average price of a new car was over $29k last year. Luxury/premium brands (Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, M-B, Audi, Volvo, Saab, et al.) sales total well over 1-million per year....and they start in they're from the low 30s up to the same price as a small island!
I carry $100k PD liability, I'm covered if I destroy 99% of cars on the road...and I stay far away from the other 1%! Seriously, if I see a Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls or high-end Mercedes in front of me, I'll change lanes if possible or fall back a few hundred feet at least...
Some states require as little as $10k in PD liability, I would be interested to see the Underinsured Motorist rates and the incidence of court cases in those states!!!
If you are talking about a large loss because you destroyed someone else's home, a $1 million umbrella policy provides an additional $1 million of coverage over and above both your auto liability and homeowners liability coverage. Cost a couple of hundred dollars.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You are correct...it was just a few years ago that the legal minimum in GA was 15/25/15...the legislature finally realized that even rednecks with their pickup trucks can spend over $30K on a moderately equipped truck, so they finally raised the minimum legal limit...
Unless you have a teenage driver... Then, it gets up into the $600-$900 range, really fast...
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Yet some Umbrellas consider the underlays of coverage as part of the $1 million giving a total of $1 million. In other words they don't stack. " Read the fine print" applies again.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
So am I...
If you have zero assets, you can either be considered "judgment-proof" (which really means "collection proof" as the judgment is still there) or you would be one who might file Chapter 7 and simply wipe out the judgment against you (with certain exceptions, like DUI)...
Life is good in turnip country. :shades:
Why is it the further South you go on the Left coast, the % of UM increases?
In other words, if they went to an attorney, the scuzzy lawyer would have sat them down and said this, "Look, he was driving a 72 Nova with bald tires and broken headlights...he has no insurance...he lives in a mobile home with no roof and he rents the space the mobile home sits on...he delivers pizza and is only paid in cash tips...maybe you ought to consider that this guy is judgment-proof (which I explained earlier really means collection-proof)"...
Then, of course, the response is always, "But I got my rights and he hurt me in the wreck...he has to pay for my damages"
I respond that is why YOU should have had medpay for the doctor bills and uninsured motorists insurance to cover for people like him...
The they get mad at me because I won't waste my time on their case...
I respond that is why YOU should have had medpay for the doctor bills and uninsured motorists insurance to cover for people like him...
As a newly licensed P&C agent (just passed the exam last week, on my first attempt!), I have a new perspective on the importance of several ‘optional’ coverages.
I have always declined MedPay coverage using the rationale that I have health insurance coverage, so I don’t need it. But there are a few potential issues with that reasoning-
1- More and more major medical carriers are specifically excluding coverage for auto accident injuries
2- My heath insurance doesn’t cover passengers injured in my vehicle; if they lack coverage of their own, they could sue me for their medical expenses.
3- And MedPay also covers a lot more injuries than I realized- fingers caught in slamming door or closing window are covered; if grandma falls getting in or out, it will pay; even if I’m a pedestrian and hit by a car, it pays
I just added $10k per person (per occurrence) to my policy for less than $4 per month!
In Georgia, Uninsured Motorist coverage automatically becomes Under-insured Motorist coverage if another driver causes damage that exceeds his limits of liability! If he has the minimum 25/50/25 limits and causes me to have $40k in injuries, his policy will only pay $25k and my UM coverage will pick up the remaining $15k. The same holds true for property damage. BUT my UM coverage limits must be higher than 25/50/25 for this to occur. At my present limits of 100/300/25, it would pay the $15k for bodily injury. I only carry 25k UM property damage coverage because my car is only worth about $10k. When I buy a new car someday, I’ll increase that amount to $50k most likely.
Long story short- I choose to cover my @ss (literally and figuratively) from the idiots driving without insurance or with insufficient insurance! In a perfect world, everyone would follow the rules and take responsibility for his/her actions, BUT in the real world, it’s up to me to protect myself!
1- More and more major medical carriers are specifically excluding coverage for auto accident injuries
2- My heath insurance doesn’t cover passengers injured in my vehicle; if they lack coverage of their own, they could sue me for their medical expenses."
#1: Normally, the health insurer will pay for the injuries, but then they will subrogate and get paid back out of the settlement...medpay usually does not subrogate...
#2: this is a very important reason why I tell folks to have medpay, to cover the OTHER folks in the wreck with no hassles whatsoever...if it is related to the wreck, medpay pays quickly and your passengers don't get sent to collection agencies...you finally "get it"...most folks do not...
if you can get $10K in medpay for $4 a month, check and see what you get for $7 or 10 a month...I pay $6 a month for $100K coverage...
Remember to not rent a vehicle worth more than 25K.
Don't let the Underwriters get to you as they will develop your patience over the years. Just about the time when you have one broken in, they replace him with another for you to train.
I was an independent agent from '56 to '95. I owned 4 agencies, had a ball, made a lot of money (via profit sharing bonus') & remain in the locality so as to dance with the people who paid for the band.
Don't spend all you make, but invest in equities for retirement years.
So, insurance would pay their limits and you are still on the hook for the balance...by having a million dollar umbrella policy, the policy would pay out and you would protect your paycheck and your home from any garnishments or liens...
Those who have assets they could LOSE are the best candidates for umbrella policies and high limits...the unemployed guy with a 65 Chevy Nova would not be worth suing, as he has no assets to sieze, and so he has no assets to protect...
Now, if you are Bill Gates and CAN write a check for a million dollars, ignore what I just said...
Maybe. I'd say an attorney working on a 30% of settlement basis wouldn't bother touching the case because 30% of nothing is nothing.
Me? I'd patiently and dispassionately pursue someone through the frozen snowfields of Siberia for .10 cents on the dollar if they caused me or my family serious and substantial pain and suffering. They'd never own two pairs of shoes.
"all things come to he who waits".
robr2 comment above is correct, Shifty, and so are you...the judgment still stands, and the deadbeat still owes the $$$, but the chance of collecting are about the same as the chances of winning the lottery...
" Inasmuch as we expect the jury to award an amount in excess of your policy limits, we advise you to seek separate counsel for defense of those excess limits."
One of the best reasons for high limits and high deductilbles.
If this was true, then wouldn't it make sense for poor people to also buy umbrella coverage?
And, the fact they are the "poor" means they the last thing they will do is cover themselves financially with adequate insurance, as you would be lucky for them to carry minimum liability limits...they are usually completely uninsured and drive their cars illegally...plus, the car is like a 72 Nova, worth $50 on a good day, and they live in a mobile home that is probably in the condition of most homes AFTER the flood and fires struck, meaning that a tent would have more value...I am sure they have a big screen TV to watch Oprah and the football games, but it isn't worth going after them on the chance they have a $500 TV as their only asset...