Questions About Auto Insurance and Accidents

Mr_Shiftright

In California that dog is dead.

Check this out, even though the data is a bit old. I bet it's worse now anyway.

The IRC (Insurance Research Council) study showed that in 2001 that 14 percent of drivers in the United States were uninsured during the years 1995 to 1997, the same rate as in 1995 as reported in a previous study.

The percentage is even higher though than the national average of 14 percent. The states they found with the highest amount of uninsured motorist include Colorado at 34%, Mississippi at 29%, Alabama at 28%, New Mexico at 27% and California with 26%. The five states with the lowest uninsured driver estimates were Maine at 4%, Vermont at 6%, Massachusetts at 6%, New York at 7%, and Nebraska at 8%.

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kyfdx

Okay, let's rephrase that. If we presume that the "driving life" of an individual is 60 years, then we can come up with a year per dollar ratio (based on $84K total) of $1400 a year in claims.

How many of you have, at this point in your lives, made claims totalling $1400 a year for every year you have been driving? (just roughly, I don't want to waste your time here)

I think I'm a pretty safe and competent driver.. but...

In 2002, lost my focus, and pulled out of a parking lot and hit another car.... 5 mph on my part... about 15 mph on the other car... Totaled my '98 CR-V (blown airbags), and did about $11K to Party B's '01 Civic. Property damage alone was $26K.. Rental cars, minor medical for Party B, towing, etc, etc.. Easily a $30K accident, and this was nine years ago... no telling what it would be now..

My company has paid out other claims for us... though, nothing over $2K, I don't think... I've been driving for 36 years, so far..

But, I have a 17-yr-old, and a spouse.... and, I'm protected up to $500K in liability... It's not just the actual losses, or even if I could pay out of my pocket.. It's protection over a stated term.. When I renew the insurance for six months, I'm not depositing the money for a future payout... I'm paying the insurance company to protect me and my assets, according to the contract for six months... That is worth something, regardless of whether I make a claim.

It's no different than when you buy 20-yr-term life insurance.. If you don't die by the end of 20 years, you didn't "waste" your money.. You purchased protection. And, you received it.. Whether any money was paid out, at all.

And..I would hope that the amount you pay over a lifetime ($84K) would be less than the average amount paid out in claims. If not, the insurance company won't be around to pay the claims.... Overhead and profit/loss are part of any business. Those that don't make profits won't be around to provide the service needed.

Wow.. this sounds like an insurance commercial.. No connection to the industry... it's just math.. lol

marsha7

"In 2002, lost my focus, and pulled out of a parking lot and hit another car.... 5 mph on my part... about 15 mph on the other car... Totaled my '98 CR-V (blown airbags), and did about $11K to Party B's '01 Civic. Property damage alone was $26K.. Rental cars, minor medical for Party B, towing, etc, etc.. Easily a $30K accident, and this was nine years ago... no telling what it would be now.."

This makes my point...most of us do not have the $30K handy to pay out this kind of claim, but the insurance companies do...and only a combined speed of 20 mph...add some more medical, make the cars bigger and more expensive, and a $40K-50K claim is not hard to reach...

Mr_Shiftright

I wasn't advocating not carrying insurance, just remarking on how expensive it was, especially for good drivers. Seems like the bad ones should subsidize us, not the other way 'round. I think ALLSTATE'S new ad campaign is attempting to address this...a bit.....

marsha7

Good idea, but the reason we pay higher prices at Walmart is due to the theft of goods by the worthless among us...to use your theory, those who steal should pay the higher prices so that the rest of us pay lower prices...

The only way to stop those who keep getting into DUI wrecks is to surround them with a force-field that prevents them from ever steering a steering wheel and turning an ignition key...Kirk, Spock, where are you???... :P

stever

Some say that the biggest retail theft problems are from employees.

So, carry that theory out a bit and the problem falls back with the insurance companies. Do we really need all those agents out there?

How much cheaper would Geigo and Progressive's rates be if we weren't subjected to talking geckos and big hair people constantly?

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I'm all for shredding the driver's licenses of those who have demonstrated gross and repeated incompetence.

imidazol97

>I'm all for shredding the driver's licenses

That doesn't stop them from driving. They just keep on. And they have no insurance in too many cases.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/crime/millions-of-suspended-licenses-clog-co- urts-fail-to-curb-bad-drivers-1055793.html

But the local urban areas put up redlight cameras and speed cameras to collect money from the out-of-towners and claim that we're all safe despite few policemen out actually stopping cars and checking licenses, warrants, insurance, intoxication levels, etc.

marsha7

"How much cheaper would Geigo and Progressive's rates be if we weren't subjected to talking geckos and big hair people constantly?"

I see your point, partially...if they didn't advertise, we would not know they exist...but by advertising, they run up the cost of each policy...still, it pays to compare them with other insurances, and see if their rates really are lower...

If not for Geico, I wouldn't have been able to see just how well Charlie Daniels played the fiddle...:):):)

Mr_Shiftright

I accidentally stepped on a gecko while hiking the other day--he seemed to recover but was limping...and THEN I noticed I haven't seen the lizard on TV since then....hmmm.....

kyfdx

Hmmm... I knew about Charlie Daniels before the commercial...

(that one is my favorite Geico spot, though.. "that's how you do it, son")

marsha7

I also knew about Daniels...but never saw him play the fiddle...

I done told you once you SOB that I'm the best that's ever been...

Mr_Shiftright

Allstate has just announced the results of an astrological survey on accidents, and found that Scorpios have the fewest accidents and Virgos the most.

Since I am a Virgo and have had one accident in 40 years totaling a $300 claim, I can only conclude:

1. I wasn't born when I thought I was

2. Scorpios must be *really* safe drivers

3. Astrology might be wrong (dare we think that?)

4. Allstate is confusing correlation with causation

NB: To be fair, Allstate also issued a statement that it does not use astrology in assigning insurance rates (yeah, they actually said that).

Kirstie_H

2. Scorpios must be *really* safe drivers

We are. I've yet to have any accident in which I was at fault. Probably hit by a couple of Virgos.

marsha7

Or, you're adopted and nobody told you, so your birth certificate, like Obama's continues to remain hidden from public view...:):):)

Mr_Shiftright

That's just like a Scorpio to say that.

Maybe Scorpios don't have accidents because they're always handing over their car keys? :P

You know, I *could* be adopted. I often see a new Porsche drive by, and I say "Hey, that's MY car. Where's my trust fund?".

kyfdx

Is that the old Scorpio, or the NEW Scorpio? I think they moved those signs around, and even added a new one...

Or, maybe it was a Merkur Scorpio? Cause the chances of being hit by one of them would be pretty slim...

(also.. be careful bragging about your driving record... I used to do that... )

Saw Charlie Daniels at an outdoor concert in Hilton Head, about five years ago... He can flat out burn up the fiddle!

Kirstie_H

Well, I don't know what to say, apart from Virgos are just bad luck. I was dating a Virgo during my (totalling) crash in 2006, and a Virgo was my passenger in my most recent total.

I figure that even if I have an at-fault accident at this point, my record of driving for nearly 30 years without one is still good. Same with moving violation tickets - never had one. So, even if I get one now, going 30 years without one is a record that many can't beat.

ronsteve

Allstate has just announced the results of an astrological survey on accidents, and found that Scorpios have the fewest accidents and Virgos the most.

Of course, they retracted that press release.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/02/news/companies/allstate_zodiac/index.htm

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, the cowards. They should have tried it out. it might have helped their generally mediocre customer satisfaction index. :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

I have a question for you all.

At what point in a car's depreciation do you think it would be a good move to cancel the comp/collision?

As a benchmark for comparison, let's take my car, which is at a point where cancellation is at least open to question (naturally, on a $40000 car you'd be nuts not to carry comp/coll) .

My car is worth $10,000 and I pay about $400 a year for the comp/collision part of the policy, AND I have a $500 deductible.

marsha7

My feeling is this: if replacing the car would cause severe strain on your wallet, then carry comp and collision...that is the other part...you have BOTH coverages, comp and collision, for only $400, assuming $200 each per year...so, if the car burned up, was stolen, or totalled, your insurance would pay you $10K to replace it...that is easily worth $400 yearly in my book...I would use the same logic until the car's value dropped to $4-5,000, as the $400 premium is quite minimal...

Mr_Shiftright

so you think about $5K market value is the cutoff point for comp/collision, as a rule of thumb for advising people?

Kirstie_H

I'd say it totally depends on finances, cost of insurance, and how critical the vehicle is / how hard it'd be to replace.

We have a truck that was purchased 2 years ago with liability insurance only. It's a big truck. Comprehensive is rather expensive. It's also our third vehicle in a household with 2 drivers.

If we didn't have the third vehicle, and if my personal vehicle were worth $5K, I'd still have comprehensive because I'm not willing to save up $5K to be able to immediately replace it if something happened to it.

marsha7

Yes, but also in relation to the cost of premium...example, when my Prelude was only worth $3,000.00, I kept comp and coll because I only paid $200 per year...so if the car was totalled, or stolen, it was worth it, to me, to gamble my $200 yearly ($50 per quarter) that if the car was totalled they would hand me a check for $3,000, a moderate down payment for the next vehicle...if that same premium was $500, I might drop it if the car was worth $3,000...

So, $5,000 is not a magic cutoff, but in relation to most premiums, it might be a good rule of thumb...

Mr_Shiftright

Yes but that presumes that the insurance company will offer us what we think it is worth, rather than their computer-generated ACV value, which has been shown to *always* be below book values; and two, we probably have a deductible to figure in there. So really, in the worst case scenario, your $3000 payoff might be more like a $2000 payoff incl. deductible and their ACV.

kyfdx

I think on cheap cars, you are less likely to get what the car is worth...

They seem to be very generous on late-model vehicles, though.. I tried to [non-permissible content removed] about my offer.... but, it was pretty good, and my heart just wasn't in it... lol..

Mr_Shiftright

Yes you are quite right..they really hammer cars that are say, old enough to be long out of warranty and they have no interest in underwriting your restoration costs if you've poured money into the old beast.

marsha7

Again, you are correct...but it all comes down to this...cost of the premium vs the real value of what your car is worth, and, can you come up with that lump sum easily if the car is totalled...simple math, easily determined by each individual according to what they see in their wallet...

One other option...depending on where you live, I would guess that the statistical chance of having a wreck is higher than, say, theft or fire...one could carry only collision but take the lesser gamble and drop comprehensive...half the cost, but still coverage for the event most likely, a wreck...

Now, if you live in the city, the chance of theft may be higher...:):):)

Mr_Shiftright

Well I'd certainly carry comp/collision in a place like San Francisco, where cars are routinely destroyed anonymously on the street. But where I live, fire and theft and vandalism are not very likely. Also I don't hit things. But on the other hand I don't wish to be so arrogant as to think I couldn't make a mistake and hit a tree or a deer, or have a blowout and spin into something inert.

I would imagine it would also depend on the mechanical condition of your car. If it's got a weak engine, or rust, one might be inclined to find an excuse to replace it.

marsha7

Ya pays your money (or not) and ya takes your chances!!!

the_big_al

in my mind, if the car can't be easily replaced or still has some value and the cost of the insurance is low ($400 a year is low to me) I would keep the comp and collusion. I would say I would keep it so long as the value of the vehicle is greater than the cost to keep it insured, by say a factor of 10 or more. Say you pay $400 a year. I would keep is so long as the vehicle is worth at least 4K and on up. $400 to collect on $4k is a pretty good return. I kept it on my 140K mile 8 year old truck which paid out almost 5K for it when it was totaled not too long ago. (although it was the other party's insurance that ended up paying out).

However on my current rig which I only paid $500 for and any type of accident big enough to report to insurance would for sure total it out, even if all it did was ding a fender, I have opted to carry only liability. (I do have UMI though). To me, the cost of carrying comp and collusion would probably be more than the vehicle is worth and if it's wrecked, well, I've already got my $500 worth of use out it. Right now it's basically a free vehicle for me to drive other than gas and insurance.

marsha7

"I have opted to carry only liability. (I do have UMI though)."...if you are in a no-fault state, then I believe your basic insurance carries PIP to cover injuries...

But, if you are in a fault state, like GA, then I usually recommend that you also carry medpay of $25K or $50K...just remember, you can be in a vehicle only worth $100, but if you are in a collision, you can be very injured and need extensive treatment regardless of the value of the vehicle...

Here in GA, many make that mistake...got a 72 Nova, worth $100, so they carry state mandated liability only...then they cause an accident, injure the other driver (covered by that liability) and also give themselves whiplash injury, or maybe break an arm or leg, but they have no coverage if no health insurance...

When I ask them why no medpay, they just look at me dumbfounded..."You mean I have no coverage for MY injuries???...what about my liability insurance???...I just shake my head and walk away...

mikekim777

So on 10/29/10, a driver was distracted and crashed into another car which in turn crashed into my car, causing $1,800 in damages. I do not carry any collision insurance. I was advised by my insurance company that since my car was parked, it should be covered by the driver's property liability insurance, the minimum insurance required by Michigan law for every vehicle. Also, since this is a property accident, it doesn't fall under the $500 mini-torte restriction.

The owner of the car, who is out of the country permanently, left his car but never signed over the title. The car is registered to the driver of the car.

I tried to sue the owner, but found out he left the country permanently.

Do I sue the driver now?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

mike777

oh, the driver has no insurance...

euphonium

TMV =$ 5,000

Annual Premium for $250 Ded Collision = $100

In case of a total, the salvage bid = $1,250

If you don't buy the coverage you will receive the salvage while saving the deductible and premium totaling $1600.

In other words, buying the collision for a premium of $250 is really insuring $3,400.

lilyowen

Anyone know what the cost of a Missouri tow is ... in and around a metro area even? 400.00 - 900.00. Storage is a bit, maybe 30.00/day. That includes the drop off at 11:59 and the pick up at 12:01am.

Just sayin ...

marsha7

In Georgia, the driver would be liable for the damages, and the owner's insurance would step in and defend the case and pay the damages...however, the car is uninsured and the driver is uninsured, and we must assume that the driver was a permissive driver (allowed to drive the car by its owner)...

You can sue the driver (at least in GA) for the damages to your car...good luck collecting on that judgment, altho if the driver has a regular job, you can garnish their wages until the debt is paid...$1800 is not enough to cause them to file bankruptcy, but if they are unemployed, or self-employed, probably won't garnish any paychecks, but could garnish a bank account if you could find one that exists...

That is why I believe, without sounding too radical, that uninsured drivers should be executed on the spot, preferably with a 357 magnum or larger...then they should be given a fair trial...

Rooster Cogburn: You'll be taken back to town, where you'll be given a fair trial, and a good hangin'..."

igozoomzoom

Over two months of silence...where did everybody go???

In response to marsha7's comment- "That is why I believe, without sounding too radical, that uninsured drivers should be executed on the spot, preferably with a 357 magnum or larger...then they should be given a fair trial."

Why execute when torture would be so much more appropriate!?

In addition to 100/300/100 liability coverage, I also carry Comprehensive and Collision ($500 deductible, waived for glass repairs) on my vehicle. And thanks to those law breakers on the road without insurance, I also carry 100/300/25 Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist Coverage! Thankfully, the UI coverage is only about $60 per year and my insurer (AMICA) has a mandatory $0 deductible on all UI claims, which is nice.

fezo

That's the silly thing with people that don't get uninsured motorist insurance - it's cheap and the upside when you actually need it is huge.

Mr_Shiftright

Some folks are confused about UIM however. If it is hit and run, and it's only property damage, then it can't help you. So say you are driving a car with no comp/collision, but you have UI, and somebody sideswipes you and takes off.

In that case, you are totally SOL on damage to your car--unless you can identify the other car and they are apprehended.

Now, if you were also injured in the sideswipe most UIM policies will take care of that part of it for you.

igozoomzoom

That's very true. The UIM only provides the type(s) of coverage that you normally carry on your policy. So if you only carry liability (and not comp/collision), UIM won't cover any property damage to your vehicle. But if an uninsured driver hurts you and/or your passengers, it will cover your injuries just as their liability would have...but not property damage.

mikefm58

Every state is different, and the last time I researched it in Florida, it wasn't cheap, and only covered medical, not property damage, up to a very small amount, something like $5K-$10K for each person.

Put me in the group that feels UIM is not worth it. I have my own health ins. policy. Playing devil's advocate here, why do I need to buy medical ins. twice?

marsha7

"Why execute when torture would be so much more appropriate!?"

I feel that way too, I just didn't want to come across and sound like one of them radical right folks, being just to the left of center as I am... :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

No torture needed. Just pass a law that any car involved in an accident without insurance gets impounded and sold, proceeds going to victims of uninsured motorists.

euphonium

Re: Hit and Run. UMPD is triggered employing a $300 deductible.

Other than Hit & Run, UMPD comes into play, $100 deductible.

It is not a requirement to carry Comp & Collision on the scheduled vehicles to have UMPD.

It is possible to carry basic Liability, PIP, & UMBIPD without covering the scheduled vehicles for any Physical Damage.

You're right, "Some folks are confused about UIM"

The above taken from Insurance Services Office, Inc. form G1-72528-A Ed. 04-07.

Mr_Shiftright

I''m still confused then. If you have only UIM, you don't have UMPD or UMBI, right?

Isn't UMPD part of comp/collision?

Can you buy UMPD or UMBI without comp/collision?

I know for a fact that UIM doesn't cover hit and run PD, because it's been denied to me twice in the past. (on cars where I didn't have comp/coll at the time).

marsha7

And take away the fun of the torture???...can't we torture them first and THEN impound the car and sell it???

Mr_Shiftright

We are a Merciful People.

marsha7

Speak for yourself...remember, I'm the guy who wants the death penalty for jaywalking...that'll teach 'em not to jaywalk!!!... :P :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

yes, but people who jaywalk once too often DO sometimes get the death penalty. The bad part is that I don't want the job as executioner.

My most incomprehensible jaywalkers are the ones who are pushing baby carriages in front of them!! :surprise: