I decided to try using the internet to get a new car this time. My research has gone well and I have decided (and my wife) on a Subaru Forester. I have been reading the postings here and am confused/concerned on how to get the best price. I found 2 models available in the area and asked for quotes via email. Only 3 dealers responded with quotes (all 3 in different cities) and the quotes are all the same .. not what I expected. The only web site that I could get a quote from was CARSDIRECT.COM without getting sent right back to the same dealer internet manager. One quote is $500 difference and the other is $350 difference. I sent an email to the nearest dealer and asked if he could match either price but got no further response. Is this what you are saying is not worth negotiating (win the battle..lose the war)? Any advice on next step? Greg PS My first post, sorry it is so long.
There is response from landrau that may helpful to you.
I am too am amazed that dealers: PAY for leads from the internet car markeitng sites, PAY for internet access to their stores, PAY for an internet manager and then REFUSE to take my money becuase it LESS than some other dealer will accept.
Call me crazy but as long as even one dealer & one seller can come together that is BUSINESS that the 'refusnik' dealers are throwing away...
I understand you are stuck, but I can't tell much else. Your best quote is from Carsdirect?
If that's the case, I'd expand my search area. Pestering the non-negotiaters is pointless, IMO. Also, have you checked for a Forester "What did you pay?" thread?
I just checked the Subaru national site, and there's a great dealer locator search function. I'd use that to get to the dealer's sites and request quotes from there.
And it seems to me the MARKETPLACE of the INTERNET is coast-to-coast.
If I can get the vehicle for XXXXX dollars and spend YYY dollars trucking it to my door, why wouldn't another dealer be MORE THAN HAPPY accepting XXXXX+YYY from me?
Lets see, you can buy the car for XXXXX + YYY shipping....however, I can sell the car to someone else for an additional ZZZZ dollars. Who will I sell it to?
The thing is the dealers can not get as many popular cars as they want. I am sure Isellhondas would love to receive every Pilot he could. But his shop gets a certain number. And maybe, in Indianna, the Pilot is not as popular...so, they discount them. I assume Isell will not sell a car for invoice if he KNEW the next person would be willing to pay MSRP.
The only thing that I cannot understand is why some dealers have not eve responded to my initail query. I have emailed 'em. I have left my phone number. I have told 'em everything I can.
They just do not seem to "get it".
I have the paperwork all set to fax to the dealer 800 miles who will take my money and sell me the car, while others have not even checked in.
I guess this is the equivlent of standing in the showroom with your checkbook for half an hour "waiting for a salesmen". bah.
I've done this send-out-email-quotes thing twice now and both times the responses were few. I suggest you give them a follow-up phone call to show them you're serious.
From my experience it seems dealers prefer to meet their customers (in order): 1) In person - if they've gone to the trouble of coming down, they must be semi-serious 2) Through a phone call - not as good, but at least you talk to a real live person 3) Through email - which could be from any yahoo with an email account and time to kill, possibly kids
Every time I made a follow-up phone call, the dealer then took me seriously.
Reren, the most important thing to remember is, car dealers are in business to sell their inventory for as much money as they possibly can. However, most of them would just as soon not sell new cars at all. The real money is in service and used car sales. So they will not waste their own time on the least profitable department of the store, and that means "ignoring" what they believe to be unreasonably low price offers.
When I was shopping for my Dodge Ram in December of 1995, I sent letters to the 5 closest dealers (almost no dealers had web presence 7 1/2 years ago) - and only one of them answered. I replied to the one dealer by asking the hours of the salesman who responded, came in, handed over a $1000 deposit (it was a special order, and I wanted them to know I was serious), and the truck was delivered in May of 1996. Over the last 7 years, I hacve sent several referrals there (and yes, I get bird-dogs, so I don't reveal their name in the forums), the service department has been outstanding, and you know what? Next year, I will order another Ram from the same salesman. He's still there, and in fact, is now the dealer's ISM. And this is where you have to draw the line when it comes to the convenience of internet/fax/similar shopping. You're better off shopping for the dealer as well, in order to create a relationship that works. When myt dad was in the market for a minivan two years ago, I took him to my salesman, and my dad was given an up-front price of INVOICE minus a $2000 rebate. All because they knew me, knew what kind of customer I had been, and knew that I wouldn't bring them customers who weren't serious.
And it's when you establish those kinds of long-term relationships that you will ALWAYS get the best price without having to shop all over, or even bother with another dealer.
I don't know why it so hard for you to grasp that some dealers may not be happy selling for the same price as another one. It's the same as expecting that everyone would be happy to do your job for your salary. Don't you think someone might say, "You'd have to pay me way more to do that job"?
If you want the car go buy from the place that will sell it for the price you want. Imagine that all the internet guys that have been "ignoring" you were to read your posts here. Every one of them would be saying, "See, I knew he wasn't buying anything." And you know what? They'd all be right. If you want to prove them wrong, go buy something.
Landru's point is good. Do you want to buy a car or do you want to understand the behavior of your local dealers? The value of net shopping is to cut out hassle and to expand your market access. You've got a deal you like? Take it. Cut out the hassle.
That some dealers may want to sell for closer to MSRP, but I do not understand how some dealers have not even reponded to my initial email inquery.(which only asked for their price, no "here is what somebody 800 miles away will sell it for" in those) Even when I have put my phone number on 'em, nada. It makes no sense.
This is NOT just about getting the LOWEST price, it is about using my time efficiently. If dealers can't email or phone me, why in the heck would I go into their store?
I am more than happy to pay a SEVERAL HUNDRED more for the same vehicle from a local dealer. Unfortunately the offers from the few locals who've responded are still $1000 away from fair, even after I figure in the trucking cost.
I suppose that I am thinking somewhat of "hassles down the road", with regard to warranty work and such. OTOH that is probably EXACTLY what the locals are counting on. Is that worth a grand? Two? What value (if any) is reasonable to place on that??
"I suppose that I am thinking somewhat of "hassles down the road", with regard to warranty work and such. OTOH that is probably EXACTLY what the locals are counting on. Is that worth a grand? Two? What value (if any) is reasonable to place on that?? "
If you have several dealers nearby, I'd value that at no more than $.29. Service departments are businesses, too; and most businesses want business. As long you have several dealers close by, you won't be stuck dealing with a sorehead for service.
I am now a proud owner of my first Subaru! Thanks for the advice. As I was reading postings yesterday I received an email back from the Colorado Springs dealer and he agreed to my offer for the car in his showroom but he would have to go get the other vehicle and could not match my offer. I paid a little more than invoice but I'm happy, the wife is happy, and the dealer made a profit. The internet salesman was great but the guy that did the final paperwork was terrible but I would go back again to buy. Greg
This one is a first for me! I sold a Tacoma double cab to a gentleman from Connecticut. I have no idea how far that is from Virginia Beach, but it's pretty far away. First contact was by phone. Customer saw the truck at autotrader.com and called me. I saw my caller id and at first I thought it was Richmond Va which is about 90 miles from me. After giving the customer some details on the truck and then re-directing him to our website we basically "built" the truck he wanted, (Tow package, upgrade security system, under the rail bedliner). This went about for a week as he was frank with me and told me he was also trying to work with a dealer in Northern Va. After clarifying some of the option packages and so, he decided to buy from us. Then came the negotiating part. If you can imagine me and him on the phone and on Edmunds.com TMV going over the price. He basically wanted TMV which I was prepared to do. I even suggested an online site to buy a plane ticket and save some money. We talked some more and he asked me "Can't you go to your manager and lower the price a bit to cover the cost of the plane ticket?" "I am the manager" I replied. "Look, I'll cut the price of the truck by a couple of hundred to cover your plane ticket. How's that sound?" "OK. I'll get back to you." He calls me the next day with his itinerary and asks me if someone can pick him up at the airport. "Sure, I'll pick you up myself." Picked him up Thursday, had the truck ready to go, hitch, security system, customer happy! What gets me is he went to a dealer in Ct. and they did not want to sell or finance the guy! 728 Beacon score! Boy! Someone was sleeping up there! : ) Mackabee
We sold the truck at $250.00 over invoice, customer financed thru Tmcc, purchased extended warranty, etc, so our return on investment was good. I will ask for a raise in a few months ; ) : ) Mackabee
Sorry guys, been in training last couple of days. Our website is getting a facelift and I'll be doing most of the "programming". May even put my "mug" on it. : ) Mackabee
I finished the story today. Our website will be fully operational on monday. I'll begin taking pictures next week to put them up. You guys will finally get to meet me! : ) Mackabee
Are we ready for that experience? Mine is usually up in the post office but that's another story :-) Seriously just curious did you do any research on that or did you just figure that having a face to go with the name would possibly increase your serious inquires with a higher comfort level?
I brought it up to the General sales manager, he thought it was a good idea (of course he wants his picture up there too!)lol, and the GM's, the sales staff, the service manager, the mechanics, you get the picture! pun intended! That is not a good idea. : ) Mackabee
muggin'it up for glam shots...No one needs to see that.
Interestingly enough...the FBI only puts pictures of folks they are closing in on up in the post office...It's more marketing for public opinion, so that when they nab the guy, joe public goes...Man, I saw his poster in the Post Office, I guess they really DO get their man.
Just wanted to share my online experience. I am interested in purchasing a Olds Silhouette. I sent an email message to a dealers internet rep, giving the specifics of the vehicle I wanted, my trade in information and also let the dealer know I was interested in closing a deal w/i the week. My main reason for using the internet is that I am currently on the road alot and was hoping that I could get some of the negotiations done ahead of time. I received an automatic message back that my request was received and that someone would get back to me w/i 24 hours with a firm price quote on the vehicle. I did not fully expect a price on my trade in but I was hoping for a ballpark figure on the trade. Instead of receiving a quote or even a phone call, all I received from the internet rep was his name and whether I could stop into see him today or tomorrow. Is this what using the internet is for, I thought I was going to be able to get a quote without wasting the better part of a day. Is this how it's supposed to work and should I give this guy my time? Any Suggestions. Thanks
How can you? You are obviously too busy to be using a phone. Forget him and keep trying different stores until someone uses the internet the way you want. It was definitely poor service to promise you a quote and then not provide one.
Like rivertown is fond of saying "some dealers do net, others don't". My recent shopping experience over the net was extremely positive. Depending on your location you can try another dealer, or email this guy back and ask for what you want again and be firm about an email response. But I would only email one more time before moving on to another dealer.
An internet site I was just made aware of advertises that it offers free invoice prices. Of course you have to pay a $50 "subscription" fee. But the best part is that "subscribers" can print off a coupon that says this:
This certificate entitles John Smith to a $50.00 credit towards the purchase or lease of a new Ford from ABC Motors. Limit of 1 coupon per vehicle purchased or leased. If the dealer named above will not honour this certificate, STOP! Do not buy or lease from this dealer. Call us at 1-800-xxx-xxxx and we'll either find a dealer who will honour this certificate or we'll refund your $50 subscription fee right away, guaranteed.
Same make,model & options or does it go into that much specificity? What I'm thinking is "if they won't honor it here we have a dealer over here who will. He doesn't sell the same brand or model but it's comparable." Just curious.
I copied exactly what it says on the coupon (except for the names and numbers). A customer did a deal with us and then pulled out this coupon with our dealership name on it. We have nothing to do with this web site. I find it a little presumptuous that this site will give away our $50 and then advise the customer to not buy from us if we refuse.
I guess they are betting on that $50 not killing the deal. On other threads we have often discussed that dealers won't lose a deal over $50 or $100. Maybe they know that and are trying to exploit it. They get those $50 as a sort of broker. It would be interesting to see if this parasitic business model takes off.
Personally, I would never use a coupon like that. Heck why not just skip the middle man and make your own with powerpoint or something?
That's why I asked the question. I'll bet if you didn't do the deal they would steer them to a dealer they did have a tie in with. The sad part is I'll also bet that after they steer them to another dealer they would end up paying more in add ons. :-)
As many of you may know I have recently been in the market for a new camry. That purchase is now complete and the new car is sitting in my garage. I have posted bits and pieces in this and other forums, but wanted to try to set down a brief synopsis if it would be helpful to others.
I decided on a 2003 camry xle with a few options. One option in particular was never ordered on any of the camrys in my region by the regional distributor, so my car had to be ordered.
I researched prices using various internet sites. In particular I noticed Carsdirect.com was offering my vehicle for about $300 below edmunds invoice price (edmunds invoice does not include any regional fees or ad fees, as I did not want to pay these fees, I used edmunds as my starting invoice pricing model).
I emailed a few local dealers through their websites with the specifics of the camry I wanted and told them it would have to be ordered. I asked for their best price. I got a few responses that were in the ball park. I also had a local dealer in mind that i wanted to buy the car from that i had dealt with a year ago. He was a nice guy so i used him to test drive and start negotiations. He too was in the ball park on pricing.
During my intial emailing for price quotes I found a local dealer that had a feature on their website where you built you car and then offered a price. I went trough the steps to build my camry and was amazed that the invoice pricing tracked edmunds exactly. The invoice total came to like $22,315. I made an offer of $22,000. The offer page was kinda skimpy but you could make a comment so I added the comment "price offer is plus TTL and I get rebate if available when car is delivered." To my surprise a few days later I got an email saying that my bid was accepted. I emailed back with an exact break down of what I wanted to pay. The salesman emailed me back that I was correct except for a $20 tag fee. I went to my local guy that I wanted to buy from and told him of the price quote I just got and if he could beat it. He said that if I went there they would add in a big doc fee or say that they had included the rebate already in my price quote.
I went to the dealer with the offer your price website. He filled out a buyers order exactly like the email except that they had a $389 doc fee. i thought this would be a problem, but he also had lowered the price of the car by $389 so the OTD was the same. I took the signed buyers order back to my prefered dealer to one last time give him a chance for the sale. I did this because he had spent the time test driving with me and showing me all about the car so I thought he deserved first chance at the sale where as the other dealer had sent me two emails and spent 15 minutes filling out the buyers order.
My prefered dealer could not believe they had put that price in writing. He went to his manager just in case, but came back and said they could not beat it and the other guy was losing more money on the deal than they were willing to just to get the sell.
So back to other dealer to place the order. Left a $1000 deposit on a CC that they never did run through. Spent 7 weeks waiting for car and hoping that the rebate held or went up. It stayed the same at $1000. About three weeks out the car showed up in my dealers online inventory with an expected arrival date. I went to my CU to get a loan at 3.9% for 48 months. I was approved and all set when the car arrived. Called the dealer to get buyers order sent to CU and he said he should be able to get me $2.9% for 48 or 60 months. I said sure. He called back about an hour later and I was approved for that.
Delivery day. Went to the dealership, test drove the car. It had 6 miles on it when i first test drove it. I signed the typed buyers order with the correct VIN, etc. and a few more papers with the salesman. Then he took the paperwork to F&I and came back and went over the warranty info and some sections of the manual. By this time F&I was ready. Went there and completed loan paperwork. The only surprise was a $100 loan fee that the saleman did not mention. I acted like I did not want to pay it and that I would go back to my CU. He said fine, they could not wave the fee. I decided that the rate was so much better and I would be done right then, to go ahead and pay the $100. The F&I guy did not try to sell me any other products at all. When I asked why not, he said he had heard me and my family members in the salesmans office saying I was not going to take any of them anyway and that it would save us both time. Funny thing is I do not remember talking about that in the salesman office.
I have to mention that I took delivery about an hour before the dealership closed. But what was so surreal about this whole experience was that everything went right even though I was looking for surprises around every turn and the way the delivery went. This was the first time I had bought from this saleman, yet he acted like it was my tenth car buy from him. He did not show me anything about the car (product demo), he did not introduce me to his manager, service dept, etc. It was basically sign here, here, and here. You know what lemon law is, right? The tires aren't covered under the car warranty. He took me to finance, that went quick with like 4 signatures and then I was off in my new car with a handshake.
I ended up with a deal that was $300 below edmunds invoice price, I got a $1000 rebate too, and I got the equivalent of toyota's non rebate financing program (2.9% for 60 months financing was through Bank of America). Basically if I had only used this dealer, the time I spent was three emails (10 miuntes each), 20 minute dealership visit to confirm vehicle specs, 20 minute dealership visit to place order, 40 minute dealeship visit to pick up car. The only other wasted times was like a total of an hour negotiating at the prefered dealer. Other time there was doing test drives and product demos which is legit time that had to be spent somewhere.
So in my case the internet worked great. Some dealers did not respond to my email price requests, others reaponded positively with ball park figures. I loved the build your vehicle feature and make an offer since my car was not available on any lot so it was probably harder for dealers to give me an accurate price quote. The internet saved me time and hassle when doing reasearch and getting pricing info.
Sorry for the long post, hope this info is helpfull to others.
I do not believe I was "cheap sold" my camry. Like I said in my previous post, other dealers price quotes were in the ball park. That is to say that they were within $500-$700 of my best offer, with initial price quotes. That indicates to me that that is the market price for the camry in my area. What killed the deal with the prefered dealer was a doc fee. He agreed to the car price that the other dealer had given, but he would not eat the $499 doc fee.
rivertown- not sure how much he made, but you are right, this is a perfect example of how offering an intial low price saved time and hassle for everyone involved. He seemed very confident of his price and always spoke positively about finishing the deal. I am sure he Knew I was shopping his price, but he did not seem to mind and never mentioned it. As far as profit goes, i was told by a Fl dealer that the LE had $1500 factory to dealer money, not sure if there is any on the XLE, or maybe some kind of volume bonus.
BTW, i intend to give all top marks on CSI. I was a little concerned about the way the delivery went, but knowing that if I do not giver all top marks my salesman will suffer, I will give all 5's. He offered the best price right away, let me take my time deciding when to buy, used no pressure at all and was knowledgeable and reliable.
Mack, if you are reading these boards, I hope you read my post above. Thanks for all of your help.
Comments
Greg
PS My first post, sorry it is so long.
There is response from landrau that may helpful to you.
I am too am amazed that dealers: PAY for leads from the internet car markeitng sites, PAY for internet access to their stores, PAY for an internet manager and then REFUSE to take my money becuase it LESS than some other dealer will accept.
Call me crazy but as long as even one dealer & one seller can come together that is BUSINESS that the 'refusnik' dealers are throwing away...
If that's the case, I'd expand my search area. Pestering the non-negotiaters is pointless, IMO. Also, have you checked for a Forester "What did you pay?" thread?
I just checked the Subaru national site, and there's a great dealer locator search function. I'd use that to get to the dealer's sites and request quotes from there.
Step 2: Like River says, do your research to determine a reasonable price.
Step 3: Go to a dealer and offer that price and see if they accept.
If they say No, then come back here for some more advice.
Nothing special about using the internet!
If I can get the vehicle for XXXXX dollars and spend YYY dollars trucking it to my door, why wouldn't another dealer be MORE THAN HAPPY accepting XXXXX+YYY from me?
Sure seems like they are refusing my money...
The thing is the dealers can not get as many popular cars as they want. I am sure Isellhondas would love to receive every Pilot he could. But his shop gets a certain number. And maybe, in Indianna, the Pilot is not as popular...so, they discount them. I assume Isell will not sell a car for invoice if he KNEW the next person would be willing to pay MSRP.
The market will ALWAYS determine pricing!
Not the internet, not some "book", not the opinion of some "expert".
Just the prevailing market.
Same thing applies to houses, stocks etc...
Sure not rocket science.
They just do not seem to "get it".
I have the paperwork all set to fax to the dealer 800 miles who will take my money and sell me the car, while others have not even checked in.
I guess this is the equivlent of standing in the showroom with your checkbook for half an hour "waiting for a salesmen". bah.
Not rocket science...
the phone does work both ways. It's possible they never got the e-mail.
From my experience it seems dealers prefer to meet their customers (in order):
1) In person - if they've gone to the trouble of coming down, they must be semi-serious
2) Through a phone call - not as good, but at least you talk to a real live person
3) Through email - which could be from any yahoo with an email account and time to kill, possibly kids
Every time I made a follow-up phone call, the dealer then took me seriously.
I dunno, I probably will break down and call some of 'em. Man oh man, I thought the internet would knock out a lot of this time wasting...
When I was shopping for my Dodge Ram in December of 1995, I sent letters to the 5 closest dealers (almost no dealers had web presence 7 1/2 years ago) - and only one of them answered. I replied to the one dealer by asking the hours of the salesman who responded, came in, handed over a $1000 deposit (it was a special order, and I wanted them to know I was serious), and the truck was delivered in May of 1996. Over the last 7 years, I hacve sent several referrals there (and yes, I get bird-dogs, so I don't reveal their name in the forums), the service department has been outstanding, and you know what? Next year, I will order another Ram from the same salesman. He's still there, and in fact, is now the dealer's ISM. And this is where you have to draw the line when it comes to the convenience of internet/fax/similar shopping. You're better off shopping for the dealer as well, in order to create a relationship that works. When myt dad was in the market for a minivan two years ago, I took him to my salesman, and my dad was given an up-front price of INVOICE minus a $2000 rebate. All because they knew me, knew what kind of customer I had been, and knew that I wouldn't bring them customers who weren't serious.
And it's when you establish those kinds of long-term relationships that you will ALWAYS get the best price without having to shop all over, or even bother with another dealer.
kcram
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If you want the car go buy from the place that will sell it for the price you want. Imagine that all the internet guys that have been "ignoring" you were to read your posts here. Every one of them would be saying, "See, I knew he wasn't buying anything." And you know what? They'd all be right. If you want to prove them wrong, go buy something.
The value of net shopping is to cut out hassle and to expand your market access. You've got a deal you like? Take it. Cut out the hassle.
This is NOT just about getting the LOWEST price, it is about using my time efficiently. If dealers can't email or phone me, why in the heck would I go into their store?
I am more than happy to pay a SEVERAL HUNDRED more for the same vehicle from a local dealer. Unfortunately the offers from the few locals who've responded are still $1000 away from fair, even after I figure in the trucking cost.
I suppose that I am thinking somewhat of "hassles down the road", with regard to warranty work and such. OTOH that is probably EXACTLY what the locals are counting on. Is that worth a grand? Two? What value (if any) is reasonable to place on that??
They know the next shopper will buy the car with a minimum of fuss!
If you have several dealers nearby, I'd value that at no more than $.29. Service departments are businesses, too; and most businesses want business. As long you have several dealers close by, you won't be stuck dealing with a sorehead for service.
Greg
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
Seriously just curious did you do any research on that or did you just figure that having a face to go with the name would possibly increase your serious inquires with a higher comfort level?
: )
Mackabee
Interestingly enough...the FBI only puts pictures of folks they are closing in on up in the post office...It's more marketing for public opinion, so that when they nab the guy, joe public goes...Man, I saw his poster in the Post Office, I guess they really DO get their man.
This certificate entitles John Smith to a $50.00 credit towards the purchase or lease of a new Ford from ABC Motors.
Limit of 1 coupon per vehicle purchased or leased.
If the dealer named above will not honour this certificate, STOP! Do not buy or lease from this dealer. Call us at 1-800-xxx-xxxx and we'll either find a dealer who will honour this certificate or we'll refund your $50 subscription fee right away, guaranteed.
Comments?
I guess they are betting on that $50 not killing the deal. On other threads we have often discussed that dealers won't lose a deal over $50 or $100. Maybe they know that and are trying to exploit it. They get those $50 as a sort of broker. It would be interesting to see if this parasitic business model takes off.
Personally, I would never use a coupon like that. Heck why not just skip the middle man and make your own with powerpoint or something?
Duncan
I decided on a 2003 camry xle with a few options. One option in particular was never ordered on any of the camrys in my region by the regional distributor, so my car had to be ordered.
I researched prices using various internet sites. In particular I noticed Carsdirect.com was offering my vehicle for about $300 below edmunds invoice price (edmunds invoice does not include any regional fees or ad fees, as I did not want to pay these fees, I used edmunds as my starting invoice pricing model).
I emailed a few local dealers through their websites with the specifics of the camry I wanted and told them it would have to be ordered. I asked for their best price. I got a few responses that were in the ball park. I also had a local dealer in mind that i wanted to buy the car from that i had dealt with a year ago. He was a nice guy so i used him to test drive and start negotiations. He too was in the ball park on pricing.
During my intial emailing for price quotes I found a local dealer that had a feature on their website where you built you car and then offered a price. I went trough the steps to build my camry and was amazed that the invoice pricing tracked edmunds exactly. The invoice total came to like $22,315. I made an offer of $22,000. The offer page was kinda skimpy but you could make a comment so I added the comment "price offer is plus TTL and I get rebate if available when car is delivered." To my surprise a few days later I got an email saying that my bid was accepted. I emailed back with an exact break down of what I wanted to pay. The salesman emailed me back that I was correct except for a $20 tag fee. I went to my local guy that I wanted to buy from and told him of the price quote I just got and if he could beat it. He said that if I went there they would add in a big doc fee or say that they had included the rebate already in my price quote.
I went to the dealer with the offer your price website. He filled out a buyers order exactly like the email except that they had a $389 doc fee. i thought this would be a problem, but he also had lowered the price of the car by $389 so the OTD was the same. I took the signed buyers order back to my prefered dealer to one last time give him a chance for the sale. I did this because he had spent the time test driving with me and showing me all about the car so I thought he deserved first chance at the sale where as the other dealer had sent me two emails and spent 15 minutes filling out the buyers order.
My prefered dealer could not believe they had put that price in writing. He went to his manager just in case, but came back and said they could not beat it and the other guy was losing more money on the deal than they were willing to just to get the sell.
So back to other dealer to place the order. Left a $1000 deposit on a CC that they never did run through. Spent 7 weeks waiting for car and hoping that the rebate held or went up. It stayed the same at $1000. About three weeks out the car showed up in my dealers online inventory with an expected arrival date. I went to my CU to get a loan at 3.9% for 48 months. I was approved and all set when the car arrived. Called the dealer to get buyers order sent to CU and he said he should be able to get me $2.9% for 48 or 60 months. I said sure. He called back about an hour later and I was approved for that.
Delivery day. Went to the dealership, test drove the car. It had 6 miles on it when i first test drove it. I signed the typed buyers order with the correct VIN, etc. and a few more papers with the salesman. Then he took the paperwork to F&I and came back and went over the warranty info and some sections of the manual. By this time F&I was ready. Went there and completed loan paperwork. The only surprise was a $100 loan fee that the saleman did not mention. I acted like I did not want to pay it and that I would go back to my CU. He said fine, they could not wave the fee. I decided that the rate was so much better and I would be done right then, to go ahead and pay the $100. The F&I guy did not try to sell me any other products at all. When I asked why not, he said he had heard me and my family members in the salesmans office saying I was not going to take any of them anyway and that it would save us both time. Funny thing is I do not remember talking about that in the salesman office.
I have to mention that I took delivery about an hour before the dealership closed. But what was so surreal about this whole experience was that everything went right even though I was looking for surprises around every turn and the way the delivery went. This was the first time I had bought from this saleman, yet he acted like it was my tenth car buy from him. He did not show me anything about the car (product demo), he did not introduce me to his manager, service dept, etc. It was basically sign here, here, and here. You know what lemon law is, right? The tires aren't covered under the car warranty. He took me to finance, that went quick with like 4 signatures and then I was off in my new car with a handshake.
I ended up with a deal that was $300 below edmunds invoice price, I got a $1000 rebate too, and I got the equivalent of toyota's non rebate financing program (2.9% for 60 months financing was through Bank of America). Basically if I had only used this dealer, the time I spent was three emails (10 miuntes each), 20 minute dealership visit to confirm vehicle specs, 20 minute dealership visit to place order, 40 minute dealeship visit to pick up car. The only other wasted times was like a total of an hour negotiating at the prefered dealer. Other time there was doing test drives and product demos which is legit time that had to be spent somewhere.
So in my case the internet worked great. Some dealers did not respond to my email price requests, others reaponded positively with ball park figures. I loved the build your vehicle feature and make an offer since my car was not available on any lot so it was probably harder for dealers to give me an accurate price quote. The internet saved me time and hassle when doing reasearch and getting pricing info.
Sorry for the long post, hope this info is helpfull to others.
Sometimes it's so smooth that it seems weird, huh?
Skillfully done!
But that's me...nevermind...
rivertown- not sure how much he made, but you are right, this is a perfect example of how offering an intial low price saved time and hassle for everyone involved. He seemed very confident of his price and always spoke positively about finishing the deal. I am sure he Knew I was shopping his price, but he did not seem to mind and never mentioned it. As far as profit goes, i was told by a Fl dealer that the LE had $1500 factory to dealer money, not sure if there is any on the XLE, or maybe some kind of volume bonus.
BTW, i intend to give all top marks on CSI. I was a little concerned about the way the delivery went, but knowing that if I do not giver all top marks my salesman will suffer, I will give all 5's. He offered the best price right away, let me take my time deciding when to buy, used no pressure at all and was knowledgeable and reliable.
Mack, if you are reading these boards, I hope you read my post above. Thanks for all of your help.