That's one thing that impressed me about CarMax, the two cars I had questions on were answered promptly BY E-MAIL, and they didn't waste my time with annoying follow-ups. It's as if they have no problem with the potential buyer being in charge of the buying process.
I've found everything you said about the traditional dealership websites to be true. Any price listed is MSRP, not the price they can actually sell the car for. And, some only list "call", which is pretty much a guarantee that I won't.
Can you imagine going into Best Buy for a television, but not knowing it's on sale until after you get in the store?! Or say you call and ask about the TV because they didn't list the price in the paper; they give you a price and you hang up. Then every couple days, because they wrote down the number from the callerID, they call you and ask if you've bought a new TV yet...
Also, it seems that you're not ready to buy TODAY, you're not regarded as a serious buyer, but here, I've been looking for eight months. Sometimes the right vehicle for the right price takes time to show up. When I find what I'm looking for I'll make sure someone knows it.
I just wonder how long will it be before you can go on a website, read a DETAILED description of inventory, find one that has big red letters "SALE" on it, then you click on it and send a PayPal deposit over while you arrange financing or find time to get a cashier's check? Then you pick it up on the weekend. Sounds like a business model, to me. A thought...if people enjoyed buying cars more, maybe they'd do it more often! Otherwise, buy a Toyota so you won't have to set foot in a dealership for another ten years!
I also like the oldfarmer's idea of driving to see the relatives. I'd be worried about driving that far back home with an uninsured car, however!
Mattandi, I'm sorry, I piggybacked my rant on top of your rant. Back to lurking for me now.
Well, you're pretty much paddling upstream here, but I admire your (here's an old word) pluck.
The dinosaurs in today's brick-and-mortar stores don't want to hear it and don't want to deal with it. Many (if not most) state laws (let's hear it for lobbying) make it very difficult to change the business model for acquiring cars, so we're pretty much stuck with what we've got, at least for now.
It'll be interesting to see how all this all works out. I doubt that it'll be anywhere near the same in ten years. Time will tell.
It'll be interesting to see how all this all works out. I doubt that it'll be anywhere near the same in ten years. Time will tell.
People said that 10 yrs ago, they will say it 10 yrs from now.
Yes, a few people would prefer to do the whole thing over the internet. However, simple human nature says otherwise. People like to see, touch, smell, hear what they are buying. People like to browse. It's just that simple. Even in industries where the internet should have a killer advantage, it doesn't. Look at book sales. Amazon should be killing the bookstores,but it isn't. People like to shop for books as much as they like to shop for anything else. I could buy all my books online, but I like going to the bookstore and looking around. The conventional wisdom is that the internet would kill traditional brick and mortar sales outlets, and that simply hasn't happened. We are seeing MORE brick and mortar, not less.
The challenge of selling cars via the internet is to quickly and efficently separate the real buyers from the strokes and respond to them in a manner that will, if not ensure a sale at least ensure a meeting.
Look at book sales. Amazon should be killing the bookstores,but it isn't.
I buy books and CD's from Amazon. I rarely buy a book from a B&M. When I travel I buy plane, rental car and hotel tickets all from the internet. So convient. No worries about being ripped of from any of them.
The salesmen at the car lot act like a pack of wild dogs the way they come at you.
I just wonder how long will it be before you can go on a website, read a DETAILED description of inventory, find one that has big red letters "SALE" on it, then you click on it and send a PayPal deposit over while you arrange financing or find time to get a cashier's check? Then you pick it up on the weekend. Sounds like a business model, to me. A thought...if people enjoyed buying cars more, maybe they'd do it more often! Otherwise, buy a Toyota so you won't have to set foot in a dealership for another ten years!
Ever heard of Ebay? If that's how you want to buy a car - go ahead, Ebay is waiting. Click on "buy now" and you're done. Unless you want a better price - then you can make an offer. And they will make a counter-offer.Or place a bid. Wait, what is the difference between this and calling a dealer or going to the dealer?
of conducting a car deal is not going to go anywhere. The internet should not be considered a replacement. It is different, and it will appeal to some customers, and some dealers will find it useful as well. It is possible to complete a car deal totally on the web already, and just simply have the car delivered. Doesn't really happen that way very often at all yet. We should also remember that long-distance, sight unseen car deals are not a unique web development.
Other businesses and services have figured out how to effectively capitalize on the potential of the web. Took time though, and no small investment of capital to do it, and a ton of failures along the way. I'm confident the auto business will as well. Dealers will figure out how to cater to the web customer, and the web customers will learn what is realistic to expect. It is actually quite helpful to hear the frustrations and gripes of everyone concerned. I still contend that they are not necessarily competing perspectives, just different. The ultimate desire to complete a deal on a car is shared.
That's one thing that impressed me about CarMax, the two cars I had questions on were answered promptly BY E-MAIL, and they didn't waste my time with annoying follow-ups. It's as if they have no problem with the potential buyer being in charge of the buying process.
If we were tearing peoples heads off like Carmax is I would make sure to answer every question to in order to ensure the customer does not start shopping around and see they can save $1000's elsewhere.
I have to give there business model credit though. They have done a fantastic job. They have the customer convinced that there no haggle pricing is great, and there cars are superior. They have there sales staff convinced to work for the money they do, and they have their own bank, warranty company, and service department.
I don't know who Mr Carmax is but has got to be lighting his Cubans with $100 bills.
Look at book sales. Amazon should be killing the bookstores,but it isn't. People like to shop for books as much as they like to shop for anything else. I could buy all my books online, but I like going to the bookstore and looking around
I agree with you about bookstores. I often find myself at the bookstore perusing the stacks or sitting at the coffee bar, or sitting in one of those comfy chairs often listening to live music. Sometimes I take my son there so he can play with the Thomas the train setup, or listen to storytime, or do a craft.
It used to be that bookstores were all about books... no coffee bar, no live music, no comfy chairs to encourage people to stay and read. However, the smart ones saw that if they remained "just" bookstores, they were going face stiff competition from Amazon and the like.
Instead, bookstores "reinvented" themselves and turned themselves into more of a social gathering place. Why did they do that? Did they do it because they liked investing in comfy chairs and Thomas the Train tables? Of course not! These bookstores understood that they could not compete with Amazon on price, so they instead went in a different direction and competed based upon the "in person experience".
I was going to make some comment about the "in person experience" of some dealers (not volvomax's of course!), but I will hold my tongue.
Oh it could be gone for sure. Don't like the traditional way then just pay what's on the window sticker. There's and old saying in the car biz: "Pay sticker, get out quicker." It's not the dealers that play the game, the game starts with the consumer. I'd be reach right now if I had a dollar for every customer that the first words out of their mouth before even selecting a car or driving it ask "What's the best you can do on this?" , "What's your best price?", "i'll buy today for 14k out the door! (sure, so would I if I could get a brand new Camry for 14k out the door). Soon one big manufacturer will go the one price route. Everyone will pay the same so you won't have to worry that your neighbor paid less than you did for the same car. Remember, be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. I checked out your link and was not very impressed by it. Here's a link you may enjoy!
Input your username and it will take you to the link.
Who said anything about kissing the dealers butt? How old are you anyway amad? Does you mom and dad know you're on this website unsupervised? Most of your comments make no sense whatsoever. :shades:
I love that pic---that is too funny! I am in the market for a car and have been shopping around via internet. I am finding that internet salespeople are much more willing to offer better deals. I'm now considering the ford focus sedan se---they are so cute! Any comments, advice, feedback? I know they are only like 15-16k, so how much negotiating can I expect dealers to do? Harmony~~:)
"Look at book sales. Amazon should be killing the bookstores,but it isn't."
Many good points, but at least Amazon is given the freedom to operate. Besides which, Amazon, Barnes & Noble's website (as well as other web-based booksellers) have, in fact, run the vast majority of bookstores out of business. Not saying that's a good thing, but it is certainly a thing.
Last I heard many state laws prohibit that sort of an arrangement for cars. If you can tell me what website exists & is allowed to operate in many states that offers all brands of automobiles at the kinds of discounts that are available with hard negotiating (much like the standard Amazon discounts), I'll go have a look.
My impression is that the car retail industry is working hard to shut out any alternatives, but I may be way off base.
Beware of the lot sales sharks posing as Internet/Fleet Managers. The aim is to convert you into a tradtional car buyer. They are the ones that refuse give you an internet price quote, even though they have an internet sales department. They want you to come to the lot where they can gain control. They want to bring you before the Emperor so to speak so they can turn you over to the dark side (traditional car buying). Once they get you into that you're finished. Never give in into the darkside.
Remember, beware of their Sith lords (sales sharks) who pretend to be Internet/Fleet Managers who nothing more than traditional car buying salesmen.
Beware of the lot sales sharks posing as Internet/Fleet Managers. The aim is to convert you into a tradtional car buyer. They are the ones that refuse give you an internet price quote, even though they have an internet sales department. They want you to come to the lot where they can gain control. They want to bring you before the Emperor so to speak so they can turn you over to the dark side (traditional car buying). Once they get you into that you're finished. Never give in into the darkside.
The problem you bring before the court today is easy to understand.
1) If you call a internet dept. and ask what is invoice I am sure you'll get a correct answer. But what dealerships have found is that when you email asking for a price. You forward that price to the next guy and ask him to beat it. And than he/she gives you a price and the cycle continues.
2) The best way to close a deal is to get the customer to the store and have them in front of you.
3) I know it must be painful to have to pay profit. When you ask ssomeone if a dealer should get profit everyone always says "Yes". But they never want to be the one to pay profit.
4) Remember if someone is lowballing the car on the internet or the phone they will have to make that money up somewhere else. You won't find that out till you get to the dealership and they want to offer you $5000 below what your car is worth. Or you'll pay 3 points in finance...
1) If you call a internet dept. and ask what is invoice I am sure you'll get a correct answer. But what dealerships have found is that when you email asking for a price. You forward that price to the next guy and ask him to beat it. And than he/she gives you a price and the cycle continues. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -----
I can get invoice price from Edmunds, don't need to call them. Of course I going to shop their price with dealers and who gives me the best price wins. Its called compeition.
2) The best way to close a deal is to get the customer to the store and have them in front of you. ----------------------------------------------- The best way to close deal is to give the customer a fair price that fits his budget, that is whatever the offer the customer makes. You either are willing to sell it at the customers offer or not. If not both parties move on. No need to come the dealership except to sign papers and other financial matters.
3) I know it must be painful to have to pay profit. When you ask ssomeone if a dealer should get profit everyone always says "Yes". But they never want to be the one to pay profit. ----------------------------------------------
I really don't factor in whether or not the dealer is going to make profit when I'm trying to negotiate a fair price. Again, either the dealer is willing to sell it to me or not.
4) Remember if someone is lowballing the car on the internet or the phone they will have to make that money up somewhere else. You won't find that out till you get to the dealership and they want to offer you $5000 below what your car is worth. Or you'll pay 3 points in finance... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------- If someone is lowballing a car, just tell them you won't sell it to them at that price and move on. The car can sit on the lot until some sucker comes along and purchases it at some high price with some ridiculous high interest rates with a bunch of bogus charges.
5) So that is why nobody wants to talk price. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And that is why car salesmen(Sith lords) continue to rank at the top of the most hated profession.
Here's what they (car salespeople/Sith) will try to do to you.
Here's an example. A friend of mine was shopping for a Dodge Grand Caravan. He showed me a copy of the invoice and said the Internet department of a local dealership said that he could have the car for the invoice price. "Great," I said. I went to the friend's house the next day and saw a shiny new Dodge Grand Caravan parked there with the dealer promotional plates on the rear.
It's a touchy thing to discuss a car deal once it's been inked, since it's a foregone conclusion at that point, so I proceeded cautiously.
"Are you happy with the deal you got?" I asked.
"Well, we got the van at invoice but..." Uh-oh. Here it comes, I thought. "When we went to sign the contracts, we found out they had included $800 for an alarm system. We bought it anyway since we were getting such a good deal — and we really wanted the van."
Here are nice, easy-going people, who were put in an awkward position. "Over a barrel" is more like it. They come in thinking they did their homework, got the best deal possible, then they get nailed for an alarm system they didn't want. The alarm system probably didn't cost the dealership more than $100. (by Philip Reed, Consumer Advisor, Edmunds)
But - what are these people - children? Did they cut their tongues out, did they chain them to the minivan? Did Police come and ordered them to buy? Was that the only minivan in 300 mile radius? The story is a nice cautionary tale, but proves only that people need to be more responsible for their actions. There is a very simple thing: say "No - I won't buy $800 alarm" and watch what happens.
I was pushed myself couple of times until I learned. I overpaid for my first car, I was pressured into my second. I took control in my third; still not perfect, but learning. Will see my fourth. Perhaps everybody needs to grow up and take responsibility for their actions - such as like signing papers, researching market conditions, etc.. No harm to the willing - remember?
"Most hated profession etc". Why do you have to repeat that every time? Does it make you fell more of a person about yourself that you find somebody you can demean at every opportunity - especially that there is nobody to actually confront person to person? I get it. Do you also go on the internet legal discussion websites (I'm sure they exist) and flood them with ambulance chaser jokes?
People like you seem not to realize (or conveniently forget) that we, as consumers, hold most cards. You can simply say "No" and walk away. That's it.
If the consumer has bad credit (usually because of their own mistakes) or MUST have the latest shiny car, then you lose some of the advantage, but not all.
And you sound like a broken record. Stop comparing dealers to Sith Lords. At best it's childish. At worst, it's insulting. You want respect? Show some respect yourself.
People like you seem not to realize (or conveniently forget) that we, as consumers, hold most cards. You can simply say "No" and walk away. That's it.
If the consumer has bad credit (usually because of their own mistakes) or MUST have the latest shiny car, then you lose some of the advantage, but not all.
And you sound like a broken record. Stop comparing dealers to Sith Lords. At best it's childish. At worst, it's insulting. You want respect? Show some respect yourself
Why are you defending dishonest, sleazy, lying, dirty, crooked behaviour from the most hated profession in the world?
As as a consumer, I don't won't to waste my time walking out when, if you had been truthful from the begining, there would be no need for me to walk.
9 times out of ten you are walking out because you were lied to. Stop lying!!
Car dealers, stop lying to the public, honesty is best policy.
The last time you bought a new or used car, did you wonder how good of a deal you really got from your seemingly friendly car salesman? And did you think he was the nicest guy you'd met in a long time?
Listen to this The reason your car salesman smiled like a Cheshire cat and treated you like his new best friend isn't because he's a kind and caring soul.
It's because he was taking hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars of your hard earned money that he didn't deserve. You can think of it as legalized thievery.
The sad truth is, these guys feast on your ignorance. (By Pete Humleker)
I think we've gone far enough with the off topic evil salesperson "discussion." The topic is Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying and the intent is to help people decide between the two methods of buying. Other forums exist for discussing morality and ethics but this is not one of them.
I want to point this out to host. This thread started out as thread directed at the consumer. If you read through all the pages, it is clear to see that it has been hijacked by car salespeople. Primarily, I suspect by traditional car salespeople.
Proof:
Hello:
I'm an editor at Edmunds.com and I've written many of the advice pieces. Now I need your help.
I'm doing research for a story that tests the way cars are priced. Specifically: if you walk on the lot and ask for a price on a car they will probably quote you sticker price and try to stick to that. But if you go through the Internet department, the same car will immediately be discounted.
Has anyone had this experience? Can any of you post your stories and the prices of the cars involved. I need this information for my article.
Thanks for your help.
Philip Reed Consumer Advice Editor Edmunds.com
Dear Host,
As you can clearly see, the original thread starter wanted feedback from us,(consumers) and not from a bunch of arrogant car salespeople. I believe they have purposefully infiltrated this thread and others like it, to circumvent growth of consumer awareness. They don't want to see this coming!!
In my view Edmunds.com is pretty much a consumer advocacy site. Please tell me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, that means the people in the car sales indsustry are for the most part the enemy.
Isn't it true that sites like this were set up to better educate consumers against deceit of the car sales industry?
How could they be trusted? So many of them post here? There is no way they come with the best interest of the consumer as their motivation. They are not trained that way.
Our Forums are open to all who wish to participate in them. Yes, the overarching philosophy of our sites is to help the customer but that does not preclude participation by the sales side. In fact, their participation can be quite valuable. In any case, all who do participate have agreed to the terms of use which includes civil, polite, respectful and nonharassing behavior and remaining on topic along with the usual no spamming, advertising, foul language and so forth.
I'll also add that the above should be read to include the notion that members should not be attempting to stifle or limit discussion of relevant, on topic and legitimate issues.
Isn't it true that sites like this were set up to better educate consumers against deceit of the car sales industry?
No.
Sites like this were set up to better educate consumers.
Adding anymore to that statement is setting yourself and any readers up for an unhappy transaction no matter what the outcome. Expect bad things and bad things will happen.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think Internet car shopping is perfect for people like amad1. They feel that dealers are out to screw them, so shopping via the internet is perfect. In fact, after doing his research, he could use the bobst method via email.
Assuming he did his research correctly, the could agree on a price and fax the contract. Since amad1 will never give the dealership the opportunity to finance, he will bring a check from his credit union to the dealership. He can be in and out in 30 mins.
He'd be a happy camper, and he would leave us alone.
Comments
That's one thing that impressed me about CarMax, the two cars I had questions on were answered promptly BY E-MAIL, and they didn't waste my time with annoying follow-ups. It's as if they have no problem with the potential buyer being in charge of the buying process.
I've found everything you said about the traditional dealership websites to be true. Any price listed is MSRP, not the price they can actually sell the car for. And, some only list "call", which is pretty much a guarantee that I won't.
Can you imagine going into Best Buy for a television, but not knowing it's on sale until after you get in the store?! Or say you call and ask about the TV because they didn't list the price in the paper; they give you a price and you hang up. Then every couple days, because they wrote down the number from the callerID, they call you and ask if you've bought a new TV yet...
Also, it seems that you're not ready to buy TODAY, you're not regarded as a serious buyer, but here, I've been looking for eight months. Sometimes the right vehicle for the right price takes time to show up. When I find what I'm looking for I'll make sure someone knows it.
I just wonder how long will it be before you can go on a website, read a DETAILED description of inventory, find one that has big red letters "SALE" on it, then you click on it and send a PayPal deposit over while you arrange financing or find time to get a cashier's check? Then you pick it up on the weekend. Sounds like a business model, to me. A thought...if people enjoyed buying cars more, maybe they'd do it more often! Otherwise, buy a Toyota so you won't have to set foot in a dealership for another ten years!
I also like the oldfarmer's idea of driving to see the relatives. I'd be worried about driving that far back home with an uninsured car, however!
Mattandi, I'm sorry, I piggybacked my rant on top of your rant. Back to lurking for me now.
The dinosaurs in today's brick-and-mortar stores don't want to hear it and don't want to deal with it. Many (if not most) state laws (let's hear it for lobbying) make it very difficult to change the business model for acquiring cars, so we're pretty much stuck with what we've got, at least for now.
It'll be interesting to see how all this all works out. I doubt that it'll be anywhere near the same in ten years. Time will tell.
People said that 10 yrs ago, they will say it 10 yrs from now.
Yes, a few people would prefer to do the whole thing over the internet.
However, simple human nature says otherwise.
People like to see, touch, smell, hear what they are buying.
People like to browse.
It's just that simple.
Even in industries where the internet should have a killer advantage, it doesn't.
Look at book sales. Amazon should be killing the bookstores,but it isn't.
People like to shop for books as much as they like to shop for anything else.
I could buy all my books online, but I like going to the bookstore and looking around. The conventional wisdom is that the internet would kill traditional brick and mortar sales outlets, and that simply hasn't happened. We are seeing MORE brick and mortar, not less.
The challenge of selling cars via the internet is to quickly and efficently separate the real buyers from the strokes and respond to them in a manner that will, if not ensure a sale at least ensure a meeting.
I'll take internet every time.
I buy books and CD's from Amazon. I rarely buy a book from a B&M. When I travel I buy plane, rental car and hotel tickets all from the internet. So convient. No worries about being ripped of from any of them.
The salesmen at the car lot act like a pack of wild dogs the way they come at you.
Ever heard of Ebay?
If that's how you want to buy a car - go ahead, Ebay is waiting. Click on "buy now" and you're done. Unless you want a better price - then you can make an offer. And they will make a counter-offer.Or place a bid. Wait, what is the difference between this and calling a dealer or going to the dealer?
Other businesses and services have figured out how to effectively capitalize on the potential of the web. Took time though, and no small investment of capital to do it, and a ton of failures along the way. I'm confident the auto business will as well. Dealers will figure out how to cater to the web customer, and the web customers will learn what is realistic to expect. It is actually quite helpful to hear the frustrations and gripes of everyone concerned. I still contend that they are not necessarily competing perspectives, just different. The ultimate desire to complete a deal on a car is shared.
If we were tearing peoples heads off like Carmax is I would make sure to answer every question to in order to ensure the customer does not start shopping around and see they can save $1000's elsewhere.
I have to give there business model credit though. They have done a fantastic job. They have the customer convinced that there no haggle pricing is great, and there cars are superior. They have there sales staff convinced to work for the money they do, and they have their own bank, warranty company, and service department.
I don't know who Mr Carmax is but has got to be lighting his Cubans with $100 bills.
People like to shop for books as much as they like to shop for anything else.
I could buy all my books online, but I like going to the bookstore and looking around
I agree with you about bookstores. I often find myself at the bookstore perusing the stacks or sitting at the coffee bar, or sitting in one of those comfy chairs often listening to live music. Sometimes I take my son there so he can play with the Thomas the train setup, or listen to storytime, or do a craft.
It used to be that bookstores were all about books... no coffee bar, no live music, no comfy chairs to encourage people to stay and read. However, the smart ones saw that if they remained "just" bookstores, they were going face stiff competition from Amazon and the like.
Instead, bookstores "reinvented" themselves and turned themselves into more of a social gathering place. Why did they do that? Did they do it because they liked investing in comfy chairs and Thomas the Train tables? Of course not! These bookstores understood that they could not compete with Amazon on price, so they instead went in a different direction and competed based upon the "in person experience".
I was going to make some comment about the "in person experience" of some dealers (not volvomax's of course!), but I will hold my tongue.
Soon one big manufacturer will go the one price route. Everyone will pay the same so you won't have to worry that your neighbor paid less than you did for the same car. Remember, be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
I checked out your link and was not very impressed by it. Here's a link you may enjoy!
Input your username and it will take you to the link.
'
Did he rip off the dealer
:shades:
Harmony~~:)
Many good points, but at least Amazon is given the freedom to operate. Besides which, Amazon, Barnes & Noble's website (as well as other web-based booksellers) have, in fact, run the vast majority of bookstores out of business. Not saying that's a good thing, but it is certainly a thing.
Last I heard many state laws prohibit that sort of an arrangement for cars. If you can tell me what website exists & is allowed to operate in many states that offers all brands of automobiles at the kinds of discounts that are available with hard negotiating (much like the standard Amazon discounts), I'll go have a look.
My impression is that the car retail industry is working hard to shut out any alternatives, but I may be way off base.
Shoot me an email with your zip code and will pull the programs for your area.
Make sure you get one with the SYNC system in it. That is the coolest feature I have ever seen on a car.
Is that how you are pulling up Edmunds these day's
1) " Computer on "
2) " Pull up Edmunds"
GP
"New York teams are superior"
"Toyota is the superior import"
Remember, beware of their Sith lords (sales sharks) who pretend to be Internet/Fleet Managers who nothing more than traditional car buying salesmen.
The problem you bring before the court today is easy to understand.
1) If you call a internet dept. and ask what is invoice I am sure you'll get a correct answer. But what dealerships have found is that when you email asking for a price. You forward that price to the next guy and ask him to beat it. And than he/she gives you a price and the cycle continues.
2) The best way to close a deal is to get the customer to the store and have them in front of you.
3) I know it must be painful to have to pay profit. When you ask ssomeone if a dealer should get profit everyone always says "Yes". But they never want to be the one to pay profit.
4) Remember if someone is lowballing the car on the internet or the phone they will have to make that money up somewhere else. You won't find that out till you get to the dealership and they want to offer you $5000 below what your car is worth. Or you'll pay 3 points in finance...
5) So that is why nobody wants to talk price.
GOod Luck
GP
"New York teams are superior"
"Toyota is the superior import"
GP
"New York teams are superior"
"Toyota is the superior import"
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -----
I can get invoice price from Edmunds, don't need to call them. Of course I going to shop their price with dealers and who gives me the best price wins. Its called compeition.
2) The best way to close a deal is to get the customer to the store and have them in front of you.
-----------------------------------------------
The best way to close deal is to give the customer a fair price that fits his budget, that is whatever the offer the customer makes. You either are willing to sell it at the customers offer or not. If not both parties move on. No need to come the dealership except to sign papers and other financial matters.
3) I know it must be painful to have to pay profit. When you ask ssomeone if a dealer should get profit everyone always says "Yes". But they never want to be the one to pay profit.
----------------------------------------------
I really don't factor in whether or not the dealer is going to make profit when I'm trying to negotiate a fair price. Again, either the dealer is willing to sell it to me or not.
4) Remember if someone is lowballing the car on the internet or the phone they will have to make that money up somewhere else. You won't find that out till you get to the dealership and they want to offer you $5000 below what your car is worth. Or you'll pay 3 points in finance...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------
If someone is lowballing a car, just tell them you won't sell it to them at that price and move on. The car can sit on the lot until some sucker comes along and purchases it at some high price with some ridiculous high interest rates with a bunch of bogus charges.
5) So that is why nobody wants to talk price.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And that is why car salesmen(Sith lords) continue to rank at the top of the most hated profession.
Good Luck Pal...
GP
"New York teams are superior"
"Toyota is the superior import"
OK Moo, let's do an amad1 deal and fit a 911 Turbo to my budget with $0 out of pocket - mmmm.... $250 per month.
Have it ready for me Friday - or else you will join the ranks of the rest of us Sith Lords :shades:
Here's an example. A friend of mine was shopping for a Dodge Grand Caravan. He showed me a copy of the invoice and said the Internet department of a local dealership said that he could have the car for the invoice price. "Great," I said. I went to the friend's house the next day and saw a shiny new Dodge Grand Caravan parked there with the dealer promotional plates on the rear.
It's a touchy thing to discuss a car deal once it's been inked, since it's a foregone conclusion at that point, so I proceeded cautiously.
"Are you happy with the deal you got?" I asked.
"Well, we got the van at invoice but..." Uh-oh. Here it comes, I thought. "When we went to sign the contracts, we found out they had included $800 for an alarm system. We bought it anyway since we were getting such a good deal — and we really wanted the van."
Here are nice, easy-going people, who were put in an awkward position. "Over a barrel" is more like it. They come in thinking they did their homework, got the best deal possible, then they get nailed for an alarm system they didn't want. The alarm system probably didn't cost the dealership more than $100. (by Philip Reed, Consumer Advisor, Edmunds)
I was pushed myself couple of times until I learned. I overpaid for my first car, I was pressured into my second. I took control in my third; still not perfect, but learning. Will see my fourth. Perhaps everybody needs to grow up and take responsibility for their actions - such as like signing papers, researching market conditions, etc.. No harm to the willing - remember?
"Most hated profession etc". Why do you have to repeat that every time? Does it make you fell more of a person about yourself that you find somebody you can demean at every opportunity - especially that there is nobody to actually confront person to person? I get it. Do you also go on the internet legal discussion websites (I'm sure they exist) and flood them with ambulance chaser jokes?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
If the consumer has bad credit (usually because of their own mistakes) or MUST have the latest shiny car, then you lose some of the advantage, but not all.
And you sound like a broken record. Stop comparing dealers to Sith Lords. At best it's childish. At worst, it's insulting. You want respect? Show some respect yourself.
If the consumer has bad credit (usually because of their own mistakes) or MUST have the latest shiny car, then you lose some of the advantage, but not all.
And you sound like a broken record. Stop comparing dealers to Sith Lords. At best it's childish. At worst, it's insulting. You want respect? Show some respect yourself
Why are you defending dishonest, sleazy, lying, dirty, crooked behaviour from the most hated profession in the world?
As as a consumer, I don't won't to waste my time walking out when, if you had been truthful from the begining, there would be no need for me to walk.
9 times out of ten you are walking out because you were lied to. Stop lying!!
Car dealers, stop lying to the public, honesty is best policy.
The last time you bought a new or used car, did you wonder how good of a deal you really got from your seemingly friendly car salesman? And did you think he was the nicest guy you'd met in a long time?
Listen to this The reason your car salesman smiled like a Cheshire cat and treated you like his new best friend isn't because he's a kind and caring soul.
It's because he was taking hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars of your hard earned money that he didn't deserve. You can think of it as legalized thievery.
The sad truth is, these guys feast on your ignorance. (By Pete Humleker)
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
-moo
A... Mad... 1(One)... You surely are mad!! :P :surprise:
GP
"New York teams are Superior"
" Toyota is the superior import!"
-moo
You really do miss him don't you? I actually miss him too.
It is always entertaining. :surprise:
GP
"New York teams are Superior"
" Toyota is the superior import!"
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Proof:
Hello:
I'm an editor at Edmunds.com and I've written many of the advice pieces. Now I need your help.
I'm doing research for a story that tests the way cars are priced. Specifically: if you walk on the lot and ask for a price on a car they will probably quote you sticker price and try to stick to that. But if you go through the Internet department, the same car will immediately be discounted.
Has anyone had this experience? Can any of you post your stories and the prices of the cars involved. I need this information for my article.
Thanks for your help.
Philip Reed
Consumer Advice Editor
Edmunds.com
Dear Host,
As you can clearly see, the original thread starter wanted feedback from us,(consumers) and not from a bunch of arrogant car salespeople. I believe they have purposefully infiltrated this thread and others like it, to circumvent growth of consumer awareness. They don't want to see this coming!!
In my view Edmunds.com is pretty much a consumer advocacy site. Please tell me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, that means the people in the car sales indsustry are for the most part the enemy.
Isn't it true that sites like this were set up to better educate consumers against deceit of the car sales industry?
How could they be trusted? So many of them post here? There is no way they come with the best interest of the consumer as their motivation. They are not trained that way.
Our Forums are open to all who wish to participate in them. Yes, the overarching philosophy of our sites is to help the customer but that does not preclude participation by the sales side. In fact, their participation can be quite valuable. In any case, all who do participate have agreed to the terms of use which includes civil, polite, respectful and nonharassing behavior and remaining on topic along with the usual no spamming, advertising, foul language and so forth.
I'll also add that the above should be read to include the notion that members should not be attempting to stifle or limit discussion of relevant, on topic and legitimate issues.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
No.
Sites like this were set up to better educate consumers.
Adding anymore to that statement is setting yourself and any readers up for an unhappy transaction no matter what the outcome. Expect bad things and bad things will happen.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Assuming he did his research correctly, the could agree on a price and fax the contract. Since amad1 will never give the dealership the opportunity to finance, he will bring a check from his credit union to the dealership. He can be in and out in 30 mins.
He'd be a happy camper, and he would leave us alone.