How old are the shoes your wearing? When you go to dinner do you leave a tip or do you think just paying for your food is plenty? When was the last time you bought a car?
The ones that lie do so because they don't know the answer. They also don't want to look stupid in front of a customer so they stretch the truth. :shades:
Well done. That goes for you and the salesperson you are dealing with. I will say that I think both you and the salesperson are atypical, but likely a wee bit prototypical.
I read the story on Edmunds.com when the guy went undercover as car salesmen, sorry but its still the same way.
I really think that Edmund's needs to point out the fact that the guy went undercover as car salesman 10 or more years ago. I am not sure exactly but I found one reference to it on the Motley Fool where in March of 1999 the guy had already had time to write article and claim himself a car buying professional.
To read it here you would think the guy did it last week.
SPECIAL FEATURE> March 09, 1999
Confessions of a Car Salesman
Fools who frequent the Buying a Car message board have probably happened upon a pretty knowledgeable guy named Winthorp. Winthorp, a.k.a. Mike Cavendish, has been enlightening car-buying Fools with tips he learned during his brief stint as a car salesman. Although Mike didn't make car sales his career, he did learn enough to secure a great deal on his last car. And he can help you, too.
Most of our internet inquires just state they are going to buy a Range Rover (usually Supercharged) in 24 hours and do not ask for any information.
Is that really what is you get (and by "you", I mean salespeople in general). They don't identify specifically what they want or indicate they want to come in for a test drive?
For my wife's car that we bought 2 years ago, once she knew exactly what she wanted, I asked a place that had it what price they would sell the specific unit for. My first contact with the place we bought from was an email that just said: "What is your selling price for this car?" (but the email also included the specific with VIN and stock number because it was sent from their "vehicle details" page for the specific unit).
As an aside, how often do those who claim they are "buying in 24 hours" actually do so? And are these people who have had no prior contact for test drives or anything?
I guess I am trying to look at things both from the customer's perspective AND the owner's point of view.
Good! I think that is very helpful for this discussion.
In order to counteract the fact that many seasoned salespeople won't work the internet, owners have just hired greenpeas or dedicated internet salesmen.
I can't predict the future. I do know that the vast majority of people research vehicles online. I still think that most people want to buy from a salesman they like. My opinion is that people who go through an entire transaction online will still be the minority in the future.
how often do those who claim they are "buying in 24 hours" actually do so?
None - But follow up with all are important to capture that 5%-15% that are honest good leads And yes, the vast majority of good leads have not driven and start with a blank request (usually a form generated from a web site lacking much info), then an exchange of e-mails and phone calls discussing and informing, then the visit to the dealership. Now at a highline store you get used to 3-4 visits before the sale, but in a high production dealership the e-lead process is slower and less fruitful than the showroom up.
Thanks for sharing your experience with everyone. I think it speaks volumes that you are buying from the salesperson who responded to everything you requested EVEN though she wasn't the lowest.
Can we please get rid of the part of this thread that isn't helping the discussion? I don't appreciate the comments and I don't believe amad1's comments are on topic at all.
That just seems like a bizarre, backward way to buy a car to me, but I guess I am actually the odd one. I've emailed some places for very specific price quotes as a first contact, but we had had a test drive at another dealership first.
I also have never claimed I was going to "buy in 24 hours", instead it's more likely "I don't have to buy at any particular time, it might be 6 months or more before I actually do". I think the "I'm going to buy in 24 hours" BS is based on reading car buying advice articles. I figure I'd rather be truthful, even though I know salespeople also don't like to hear "I'm not buying for 6 months".
C'mon Moo, where is your sense of humor - especially after some of the guys' responses you should be at ease now.
Amad is obviously an extreme case, but tons of people think similar way, perhaps to a lesser degree. He probably can't be helped, but dozens of those who read it actually may. He is throwing stereotypes, but the insults weren't exactly personal. I know you don't like it, but removing comments like that is balancing of verge of unreasonable censorship.
You also have to admit that the stereotype that might not be fair to you, has been earned to large degree. I still see those "slick" guys hanging around in large numbers at some of the stores - so it's not like they don't exist. Perhaps it's actually better to let people vent once in a while and respond to it so others could position themselves in much less extreme positions.
You said it yourself some time ago - there is no other way, so you need to deal with side effect, i.e. people exhibiting inherrent mistrust, having unreasonable expectations, and attempting to play the system to their advantage beyond reason.
I think there is a large market for it, but both sides need to learn its rules - and they are different. I think big resistance from many dealers comes from not really understanding the medium and what it really does. They're trying to apply old rules and metrics (like those lead to close ratios) to it and it can't work.
It's all about information. The old way was that the consumer was generally uninformed and all they could do was give up or haggle to what they felt is resistance point. New way is consumer is generally informed (at least the one who uses the medium), so trying to hide things from them is pointless. The game changed, but not everybody wants to acknowlege that.
The balance of power (or more accurately control over the process) shifted with the information spread and dealers have very hard time to adjust. It's understandable. Shutting down, refusing to play ball is one of possible solutions - and it will work for short term but somebody will break eventually.
I think the general trend of non-luxury large-volume new car buying will be "commoditized": low margins, large volumes per person. I think it may evolve to one-price system, or close. One price does not mean same price every day, or full sticker price. Just like Best Buy has weekend, seasonal, annual sale events, so can one-price dealership. One price will also mean less sales personnel, more automation. It's not happening tomorrow, but I think it's going there.
I was not talking about how you do e-leads or others on this board. I am just trying to give you a feeling fot the real world.
I understand and it is interesting information. I mentioned what I have done to give you a feel for how far out of the mainstream some of us buyers are .
My sense of humor is where it always is. You know enough from reading my posts that I love a laugh (at least I hope you've seen that).
I think his insults are quite personal. His statements are speaking directly about what I do. Since I take pride in what I do, I don't appreciate the comments. He's certainly entitle to his opinions and is welcome to post them on the appropriate forums. I think they have no place here where all they do is flame up a forum.
The stereotype is fun for folks to talk about. I've never insinuated that these salesmen don't exist. If I thought that venting would help him, I would certainly be all for it. I see no reason or accountability in his statements. Therefore, I see no reason for his comments to be here.
This is similar to the education world that I work in. The thinking years ago was that we could simply take what happens in a traditional classroom and move it onto the web. We found out this doesn't work.
I don't deal with stereotypes, I'm talking about prototypes. Also, if you take pride in your occupation you need to attack your own industry instead of me. You need to clean it up, as in purify it. Get with consumer groups to get Congress to pass laws prohibiting car dealers from taking advantage of consumers.
I would like a 3 day cooling off period for all car purchases.
I do mainly Internet sales, and i am going to give my view on it. First, in our store - you have to have an experience and performance record, etiher here of from your previous place. I was working floor for a year before I got Internet. I also desk my own deals, do my own trades and I order my own cars - it saves time and makes the job easier. I always give a guote, even when there is no imformation at all, unless the quote is for a car that is impossible to get - diesel, last year or future model. And here I am going to put a couple of examples of a typical Internet lead:
Example 1: Customer: ***********
Type: New
Source: Corporate
Work:
Home: [Customer Home Phone ]
Make: Volkswagen
Year: 2008
Model: Jetta
Trim: SEL
IntentToBuy: Cash
eMail:**********
No notes, no color, no phone number, sent him a quote, followed up 5 times, never heard from him again.
Example 2: Prospect Information : timeframe Within 2 weeks
Now an example of a email exchange with the one that actually responds: I received a decent looking lead with contact info, and detailed info on the car, and i send this quote:
Dear Kimberly,
Thank you for choosing the new Volkswagen Passat! Your inquiry shows that you are interested in a manual Passat sedan, black on black. I have the car you are looking for available: 2008 Passat Turbo, manual black with black interior and heated seats MSRP: $24,780 Your Internet price: $23,618 Total out the door including sales tax and fees: $25,910 If you finance it for 72 months with special APR of 4.9% - your payment will be $336 a month including everything with $5,000 as a downpayment, on approved credit. Please let me know if this is the car you want, or if you want me to find you something different.
Response:
i do not have a down payment for the vechile now what
My response:
Ok, $0 down, $416 a month.
Response:
ok then what about my trade in 2001 ford expedidtion 73.000 miles stil under warranty, i owe 7,000.00 left and also i know i wont be able to get that low apr impossible tried before. now what am i looking at?
My response:
I will need to see the car to appraise it. We are open 9 to 7 on weekdays, when can you bring it in for appraisal?
Response:
just quick question how low can you go down on the car price. not trying to pay almost the same montly again for another 72 months, see what im sayin
My response:
The price I gave you is the lowest you can find for this car, have you gotten any better quotes?
You need to clean it up, as in purify it. Get with consumer groups to get Congress to pass laws prohibiting car dealers from taking advantage of consumers.
What do you consider ripping/taking advantage of consumers?
Making profit = ripping off customers according to people like him
HA HA HA thats funny......
We should all work for free. Car dealerships should be a Non-Profit Organization. When you fail to pay your parking tickets you should be punished by doing community service as car sales people.
Get with consumer groups to get Congress to pass laws prohibiting car dealers from taking advantage of consumers.
And what exactly is taking advantage of consumers? Selling at sticker? Selling at $1000 over invoice? Selling at any profit? If you mean coersion, switching paperwork, the laws are already there. You seem to be forgetting about one cardinal Roman rule that there is no harm to the willing. If you willingly enter any transaction, as long as there was no coersion, misrepresentation of product (wrong trim, ext. warranty sold as requirement, etc.) or other illegal acts, mere high price is no grounds for reprival. You should know how much you are willing to pay - if it's more than Mrs. Smith across the street and she got the same product for less, tough. If Best Buy has weekend sale and you come on Monday and buy the plasma TV at list price, you wouldn't call it "taking advantage". Just bad luck or lack of preparation. Why should car selling be any different?
I would like a 3 day cooling off period for all car purchases
Of course you promise you won't drive the car AT ALL during that time, so you? No? So what do you call "buying" a car, taking 500-mile trip and then wanting all money back? Free rental?
Funny thing - I'm not even in sales, yet I find myself sympathetic to them when I read stuff like that...
Of course you promise you won't drive the car AT ALL during that time, so you? No? So what do you call "buying" a car, taking 500-mile trip and then wanting all money back? Free rental?
Very few people would go through the trouble of paying or financing a 25-35k, spending hours at the dealerships, to use a 3 day cooling off period as a glorified car rental. Come on!
You see folks what kind of argument these people make. What about when car dealers let you drive off the lot at certain finance rate only to call you back a week later saying that bank could not approve you at particular rate, to come back with the car which usually means agreeing to a higher rate.
What about when car dealers let you drive off the lot at certain finance rate only to call you back a week later saying that bank could not approve you at particular rate, to come back with the car which usually means agreeing to a higher rate.
No, that means you can bring the car back and get a full refund. That's the cooling-off period you wanted.
Very few people would go through the trouble of paying or financing a 25-35k, spending hours at the dealerships, to use a 3 day cooling off period as a glorified car rental. Come on!
The $25-$30k cars you are talking about would depreciate $3-$4k the second you drive them off the lot. You think dealerships would want to eat that kind of loss? Come on! :P
All you need to do is say "I don't pay it - makes the car too expensive overall. Goodbye". There is no law saying product should cost X as much as there is no law saying customer has to buy at an inflated price.
Get with consumer groups to get Congress to pass laws prohibiting car dealers from taking advantage of consumers.
consumers today buy too much vehicle. More then they can afford. Then, when the financial squeeze becomes eye-popping, they look for someone to blame. The dealership and lender make nice targets. Seldom do the debt-ridden blame themselves." Well, why would they? All of sudden dealers and carsales men are bad, con-artist etc....
Wow! I'd say you have to deal with some pretty rude "customers".
I like the part about "not trying to pay almost the same montly again for another 72 months, see what im sayin"
What would happen if you suggest maybe she should look at a cheaper car...like Jetta or Rabbit, since you are at a VW dealer?
But, I bet the dealership would like the fact that she has a warranty on her 2001 ford expedidtion with 73.000 miles. Potential big profits from selling an extended warranty...
I guess not many act as I do...
Here is something I sent to place I ended up buying from:
Can you tell me what trim level and transmission is on the Mazda6 stk# XXXXX that was advertised on page 11 of ____________ on Sunday, January 28?
I'd prefer an email response, but you can also call me on Monday at XXX-XXX-XXXX
Here is something I sent after I bought, to someone I did not buy from:
Well, I got the car at ______, with no extras at the promised $X discount and the $X in rebates...it was an offer I could not refuse. Their explanation was they needed to move a unit for dealer incentives or whatever and I "won the lottery".
Thanks for trying.
I emailed something like that to at least 5 salespeople who I did not buy from.
laws prohibiting car dealers from taking advantage of consumers
Already on the books. It's called Law of Edmunds.
Just get your numbers from Edmunds and if buyer goes over or dealer goes under...you both knew the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse...especially on this site.
A. You confused Delivery and Handling with Destination... (2 different things entirely)
or
B. It worked and you are angry with your stupidity
Nope, I'm not. When I call this dealership out on their attempts at trickery they just slithered back into the bottom of hell where they probably came from.
Just get your numbers from Edmunds and if buyer goes over or dealer goes under...you both knew the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse...especially on this site.
Joel, I live in a small town near the Blue Ridge Parkway. We have Chevy, Ford, Nissan and Chrysler dealers. (1 each).
They are all "old school". By that I mean they get all huffy if you show them an Edmunds quote or an Ebay ad for the car (similar) on their lot. Their price is always 3 to 4 thousand over my sources. So much so that I offered to be a buyer for them as they were obviously overpaying. That is big profit!
The Chrysler dealer is on his last legs. Still dumping new 2006's. Ford and Chevy both sell trucks and off lease Caddys/Chevys which keeps them in business, but they too have many leftovers. Nissan was doing well, then recalls prominently displayed in the local paper put them back to square one.
Here's another thing I don't understand. Went to Caddy/Chevy dealer with Tahoe I bought from them. Told salesman I wanted similar vehicle, new with larger engine (6.0L) for pulling trailer, wife wanted HID lights like my Toyota has. Salesman had no idea how to get larger engine or lights. I said thank you, I'll find it myself. Within a month I found a Yukon Denali with 6.0L and HID lights. Also better stereo, etc. I bought it the day I found it (in W Va) and will bring it in to play the insert key-win vehicle promo tomorrow. Why didn't the salesman take a quick look and find that vehicle? Doesn't he know I'm going to rub his nose in it tomorrow? I'm a previous buyer, I knew exactly what I wanted...he did squat.
They won't lift a finger to sell anything not currently on their lot. Why is this? At the very least he should have told me where to find the Denali so I wouldn't wear him out in front of his GM like I'm going to do tomorrow.
Why did you go to a Chevy dealer for a Denali? According to Edmunds a Denali is a GMC. Did you have aftermarket HID installed cause they don't come with HID stock.
I think most of the sales guys here are not the snakes from hell you are referring to. They are the straight shooters you'd like to do business with.
When we bought our Mazda MPV back in 04', the dealerships internet department did not give us an online price when requested... that I can recall. But, we followed up with them and bought because they actually had the vans & colors on the lot they claimed to. Many many times I would call dealerships to inquire about a particular/specific car, only to show up and the dealership say it had already been sold, and then try to put me in another vehicle. This is the "trickery" that I see happening more than anything else. The outright decieving to screw the consumer out of money is fairly rare.
I found the Denali on a Chevy dealers lot in W Va. (they may have had a GMC in their name-I don't remember) but they had many GMCs and many Chevys. Cole Chevrolet, Bluefield, W Va. The 4 dealers I mentioned are all there are within 40 miles.
Sooo, one dealer got you to where you hate and degrade all dealers. I hope you never dated a woman who lied to you, or ate a bad steak. Life for you must be a lot of fun.
Your post was both instructive and suprising (as was Moo's a day or two ago where he talked about working up a bunch of numbers only to get back the reply, "You're high") because the times I've bought over the net have not had nearly so much back and forth.
It's more like:
Me: What's your best price on a 2008 Odyssey EX?
Dealer: $26,500
Me: Ok, I'll be in to pick it up on Friday.
Or
Me: What's your best price?
Dealer: Come on in and we'll talk about it.
Me: What's your number?
Dealer: We'll beat anybody's number. Come on in so we can show you.
Edmunds is not the bible - but we have had that discussion
It's the closest thing I've found to a fair price guide. If you find a better one let me know. ps your Geneva Convention card may say CAPT while mine says LCDR so I won't argue too much. You sell a vehicle I will never own. I'm a Chevy, Cadillac guy with a little Toyota added in. Don't mean to offend hi-line folks, but they're just not my style.
Comments
How old are the shoes your wearing? When you go to dinner do you leave a tip or do you think just paying for your food is plenty? When was the last time you bought a car?
:shades:
And you probably believe in the tooth fairy and the easter bunny.
I would love to hear how this story ends.
I really think that Edmund's needs to point out the fact that the guy went undercover as car salesman 10 or more years ago. I am not sure exactly but I found one reference to it on the Motley Fool where in March of 1999 the guy had already had time to write article and claim himself a car buying professional.
To read it here you would think the guy did it last week.
SPECIAL FEATURE>
March 09, 1999
Confessions of a Car Salesman
Fools who frequent the Buying a Car message board have probably happened upon a pretty knowledgeable guy named Winthorp. Winthorp, a.k.a. Mike Cavendish, has been enlightening car-buying Fools with tips he learned during his brief stint as a car salesman. Although Mike didn't make car sales his career, he did learn enough to secure a great deal on his last car. And he can help you, too.
Is that really what is you get (and by "you", I mean salespeople in general). They don't identify specifically what they want or indicate they want to come in for a test drive?
For my wife's car that we bought 2 years ago, once she knew exactly what she wanted, I asked a place that had it what price they would sell the specific unit for. My first contact with the place we bought from was an email that just said: "What is your selling price for this car?" (but the email also included the specific with VIN and stock number because it was sent from their "vehicle details" page for the specific unit).
As an aside, how often do those who claim they are "buying in 24 hours" actually do so? And are these people who have had no prior contact for test drives or anything?
I guess I am trying to look at things both from the customer's perspective AND the owner's point of view.
Good! I think that is very helpful for this discussion.
In order to counteract the fact that many seasoned salespeople won't work the internet, owners have just hired greenpeas or dedicated internet salesmen.
I can't predict the future. I do know that the vast majority of people research vehicles online. I still think that most people want to buy from a salesman they like. My opinion is that people who go through an entire transaction online will still be the minority in the future.
-moo
None - But follow up with all are important to capture that 5%-15% that are honest good leads And yes, the vast majority of good leads have not driven and start with a blank request (usually a form generated from a web site lacking much info), then an exchange of e-mails and phone calls discussing and informing, then the visit to the dealership. Now at a highline store you get used to 3-4 visits before the sale, but in a high production dealership the e-lead process is slower and less fruitful than the showroom up.
Thanks for sharing your experience with everyone. I think it speaks volumes that you are buying from the salesperson who responded to everything you requested EVEN though she wasn't the lowest.
That's just plain classy.
Thanks for sharing.
-moo
Thanks, moo
I also have never claimed I was going to "buy in 24 hours", instead it's more likely "I don't have to buy at any particular time, it might be 6 months or more before I actually do". I think the "I'm going to buy in 24 hours" BS is based on reading car buying advice articles. I figure I'd rather be truthful, even though I know salespeople also don't like to hear "I'm not buying for 6 months".
Helpful, good thing/bad thing, part of the problem, etc.?
99 times out of 100 you get ridiculous offers ($8-15k below asking). A couple of times I was able to turn a ridiculous offer into a deal.
Amad is obviously an extreme case, but tons of people think similar way, perhaps to a lesser degree. He probably can't be helped, but dozens of those who read it actually may. He is throwing stereotypes, but the insults weren't exactly personal. I know you don't like it, but removing comments like that is balancing of verge of unreasonable censorship.
You also have to admit that the stereotype that might not be fair to you, has been earned to large degree. I still see those "slick" guys hanging around in large numbers at some of the stores - so it's not like they don't exist. Perhaps it's actually better to let people vent once in a while and respond to it so others could position themselves in much less extreme positions.
You said it yourself some time ago - there is no other way, so you need to deal with side effect, i.e. people exhibiting inherrent mistrust, having unreasonable expectations, and attempting to play the system to their advantage beyond reason.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It's all about information. The old way was that the consumer was generally uninformed and all they could do was give up or haggle to what they felt is resistance point. New way is consumer is generally informed (at least the one who uses the medium), so trying to hide things from them is pointless. The game changed, but not everybody wants to acknowlege that.
The balance of power (or more accurately control over the process) shifted with the information spread and dealers have very hard time to adjust. It's understandable. Shutting down, refusing to play ball is one of possible solutions - and it will work for short term but somebody will break eventually.
I think the general trend of non-luxury large-volume new car buying will be "commoditized": low margins, large volumes per person. I think it may evolve to one-price system, or close. One price does not mean same price every day, or full sticker price. Just like Best Buy has weekend, seasonal, annual sale events, so can one-price dealership. One price will also mean less sales personnel, more automation. It's not happening tomorrow, but I think it's going there.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I understand and it is interesting information. I mentioned what I have done to give you a feel for how far out of the mainstream some of us buyers are
I think his insults are quite personal. His statements are speaking directly about what I do. Since I take pride in what I do, I don't appreciate the comments. He's certainly entitle to his opinions and is welcome to post them on the appropriate forums. I think they have no place here where all they do is flame up a forum.
The stereotype is fun for folks to talk about. I've never insinuated that these salesmen don't exist. If I thought that venting would help him, I would certainly be all for it. I see no reason or accountability in his statements. Therefore, I see no reason for his comments to be here.
-moo
I don't deal with stereotypes, I'm talking about prototypes. Also, if you take pride in your occupation you need to attack your own industry instead of me. You need to clean it up, as in purify it. Get with consumer groups to get Congress to pass laws prohibiting car dealers from taking advantage of consumers.
I would like a 3 day cooling off period for all car purchases.
First, in our store - you have to have an experience and performance record, etiher here of from your previous place. I was working floor for a year before I got Internet. I also desk my own deals, do my own trades and I order my own cars - it saves time and makes the job easier.
I always give a guote, even when there is no imformation at all, unless the quote is for a car that is impossible to get - diesel, last year or future model. And here I am going to put a couple of examples of a typical Internet lead:
Example 1:
Customer: ***********
Type: New
Source: Corporate
Work:
Home: [Customer Home Phone ]
Make: Volkswagen
Year: 2008
Model: Jetta
Trim: SEL
IntentToBuy: Cash
eMail:**********
No notes, no color, no phone number, sent him a quote, followed up 5 times, never heard from him again.
Example 2:
Prospect Information :
timeframe Within 2 weeks
Contact Information :
Name *********
Address Line *************
voice Phone ************* ( Time: nopreference ) (*Prefered*)
Email *********
Time Frame :
Comment Within 2 weeks
Comments :
SPECIAL NOTES ON THIS LEAD: Customer is approx. 5 mi. from you. CUSTOMER COMMENTS:
Vehicle 1
Vehicle Information :
interest buy
status new
make Volkswagen
model Jetta Sedan
trim Manual Sedan
year 2007
Color Combinations :
Exterior Color No Preference
Preference 1
Finance Info:
Method Undecided
Asking about a last year model that was sold out 4 months ago, sent him a quote for this year model, followed up, never heard from him again.
To be continued...
I received a decent looking lead with contact info, and detailed info on the car, and i send this quote:
Dear Kimberly,
Thank you for choosing the new Volkswagen Passat!
Your inquiry shows that you are interested in a manual Passat sedan, black on black. I have the car you are looking for available:
2008 Passat Turbo, manual black with black interior and heated seats
MSRP: $24,780
Your Internet price: $23,618
Total out the door including sales tax and fees: $25,910
If you finance it for 72 months with special APR of 4.9% - your payment will be $336 a month including everything with $5,000 as a downpayment, on approved credit.
Please let me know if this is the car you want, or if you want me to find you something different.
Response:
i do not have a down payment for the vechile now what
My response:
Ok, $0 down, $416 a month.
Response:
ok then what about my trade in 2001 ford expedidtion 73.000 miles
stil
under warranty, i owe 7,000.00 left and also i know i wont be able to
get that low apr impossible tried before. now what am i looking at?
My response:
I will need to see the car to appraise it. We are open 9 to 7 on weekdays, when can you bring it in for appraisal?
Response:
just quick question how low can you go down on the
car
price. not trying to pay almost the same montly again for another 72
months, see what im sayin
My response:
The price I gave you is the lowest you can find for this car, have you gotten any better quotes?
She never came in, never emailed back.
What do you consider ripping/taking advantage of consumers?
Making profit = ripping off customers according to people like him.
HA HA HA thats funny......
We should all work for free. Car dealerships should be a Non-Profit Organization. When you fail to pay your parking tickets you should be punished by doing community service as car sales people.
Sorry just being funny.......
Why doe it not surprise me that you are one of those people who feel it is the governments job to protect them from themselves?
And what exactly is taking advantage of consumers? Selling at sticker? Selling at $1000 over invoice? Selling at any profit? If you mean coersion, switching paperwork, the laws are already there. You seem to be forgetting about one cardinal Roman rule that there is no harm to the willing. If you willingly enter any transaction, as long as there was no coersion, misrepresentation of product (wrong trim, ext. warranty sold as requirement, etc.) or other illegal acts, mere high price is no grounds for reprival. You should know how much you are willing to pay - if it's more than Mrs. Smith across the street and she got the same product for less, tough. If Best Buy has weekend sale and you come on Monday and buy the plasma TV at list price, you wouldn't call it "taking advantage". Just bad luck or lack of preparation. Why should car selling be any different?
I would like a 3 day cooling off period for all car purchases
Of course you promise you won't drive the car AT ALL during that time, so you? No? So what do you call "buying" a car, taking 500-mile trip and then wanting all money back? Free rental?
Funny thing - I'm not even in sales, yet I find myself sympathetic to them when I read stuff like that...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Like trying to include a destination charge for a used car. Some sleazy, greasy, vermin of a car dealer just tried that one on me.
Very few people would go through the trouble of paying or financing a 25-35k, spending hours at the dealerships, to use a 3 day cooling off period as a glorified car rental. Come on!
You see folks what kind of argument these people make. What about when car dealers let you drive off the lot at certain finance rate only to call you back a week later saying that bank could not approve you at particular rate, to come back with the car which usually means agreeing to a higher rate.
A. You confused Delivery and Handling with Destination... (2 different things entirely)
or
B. It worked and you are angry with your stupidity
Did you even go there with an intend to pay the car? Or do you go to just give sales people a hard time becuase your bitter?
No, that means you can bring the car back and get a full refund.
That's the cooling-off period you wanted.
The $25-$30k cars you are talking about would depreciate $3-$4k the second you drive them off the lot. You think dealerships would want to eat that kind of loss? Come on! :P
2018 430i Gran Coupe
consumers today buy too much vehicle. More then they can afford. Then, when the financial squeeze becomes eye-popping, they look for someone to blame. The dealership and lender make nice targets. Seldom do the debt-ridden blame themselves." Well, why would they? All of sudden dealers and carsales men are bad, con-artist etc....
I like the part about "not trying to pay almost the same montly again for another 72 months, see what im sayin"
What would happen if you suggest maybe she should look at a cheaper car...like Jetta or Rabbit, since you are at a VW dealer?
But, I bet the dealership would like the fact that she has a warranty on her 2001 ford expedidtion with 73.000 miles. Potential big profits from selling an extended warranty...
I guess not many act as I do...
Here is something I sent to place I ended up buying from:
Can you tell me what trim level and transmission is on the Mazda6 stk# XXXXX that was advertised on page 11 of ____________ on Sunday, January 28?
I'd prefer an email response, but you can also call me on Monday at XXX-XXX-XXXX
Here is something I sent after I bought, to someone I did not buy from:
Well, I got the car at ______, with no extras at the promised $X discount and the $X in rebates...it was an offer I could not refuse. Their explanation was they needed to move a unit for dealer incentives or whatever and I "won the lottery".
Thanks for trying.
I emailed something like that to at least 5 salespeople who I did not buy from.
Solely out of curiosity I ask this question, and please more then Jeff answer it.
What do you consider a big profit.?
Already on the books. It's called Law of Edmunds.
Just get your numbers from Edmunds and if buyer goes over or dealer goes under...you both knew the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse...especially on this site.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Once they tried that trick it turned me off. I'm not bitter, I just hate liars and deceivers.
A. You confused Delivery and Handling with Destination... (2 different things entirely)
or
B. It worked and you are angry with your stupidity
Nope, I'm not. When I call this dealership out on their attempts at trickery they just slithered back into the bottom of hell where they probably came from.
Just get your numbers from Edmunds and if buyer goes over or dealer goes under...you both knew the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse...especially on this site.
Thank God for Edmunds!!
They are all "old school". By that I mean they get all huffy if you show them an Edmunds quote or an Ebay ad for the car (similar) on their lot. Their price is always 3 to 4 thousand over my sources. So much so that I offered to be a buyer for them as they were obviously overpaying.
That is big profit!
The Chrysler dealer is on his last legs. Still dumping new 2006's. Ford and Chevy both sell trucks and off lease Caddys/Chevys which keeps them in business, but they too have many leftovers. Nissan was doing well, then recalls prominently displayed in the local paper put them back to square one.
Here's another thing I don't understand.
Went to Caddy/Chevy dealer with Tahoe I bought from them. Told salesman I wanted similar vehicle, new with larger engine (6.0L) for pulling trailer, wife wanted HID lights like my Toyota has. Salesman had no idea how to get larger engine or lights. I said thank you, I'll find it myself. Within a month I found a Yukon Denali with 6.0L and HID lights. Also better stereo, etc. I bought it the day I found it (in W Va) and will bring it in to play the insert key-win vehicle promo tomorrow. Why didn't the salesman take a quick look and find that vehicle? Doesn't he know I'm going to rub his nose in it tomorrow? I'm a previous buyer, I knew exactly what I wanted...he did squat.
They won't lift a finger to sell anything not currently on their lot. Why is this?
At the very least he should have told me where to find the Denali so I wouldn't wear him out in front of his GM like I'm going to do tomorrow.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
When we bought our Mazda MPV back in 04', the dealerships internet department did not give us an online price when requested... that I can recall. But, we followed up with them and bought because they actually had the vans & colors on the lot they claimed to. Many many times I would call dealerships to inquire about a particular/specific car, only to show up and the dealership say it had already been sold, and then try to put me in another vehicle. This is the "trickery" that I see happening more than anything else. The outright decieving to screw the consumer out of money is fairly rare.
The 4 dealers I mentioned are all there are within 40 miles.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
It's more like:
Me: What's your best price on a 2008 Odyssey EX?
Dealer: $26,500
Me: Ok, I'll be in to pick it up on Friday.
Or
Me: What's your best price?
Dealer: Come on in and we'll talk about it.
Me: What's your number?
Dealer: We'll beat anybody's number. Come on in so we can show you.
Me: Uh, no, thanks.
It's the closest thing I've found to a fair price guide. If you find a better one let me know.
ps your Geneva Convention card may say CAPT while mine says LCDR so I won't argue too much. You sell a vehicle I will never own. I'm a Chevy, Cadillac guy with a little Toyota added in. Don't mean to offend hi-line folks, but they're just not my style.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali