Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying

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Comments

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,625
    In my world, an AMAD is an airframe-mounted accessory drive (gearbox). I've participated in the design of several. Since the aerospace industry cares more about efficiency than noise, our gearboxes all have spur-cut gears -- less sliding & heat.

    But they do whine, unlike the bevel-cut gears in all modern automotive transmissions. Think of a manual, in reverse.

    Go figure.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    I believe they have purposefully infiltrated this thread and others like it, to circumvent growth of consumer awareness. They don't want to see this coming!!

    OK :confuse:

    How could they be trusted? So many of them post here? There is no way they come with the best interest of the consumer as their motivation. They are not trained that way.

    Ahh I am building relationships with a lot consumers by earning there trust by giving he information that they are looking for when they come to my dealership. I fully disclose everything. It is to my understanding that all dealerships are supposed to be this way. I never have a problem discussing numbers with the people in front of me.

    Now we are supposed to be on a public forum where we can keep identitys private if we choose. The chance of me ever working a eal with you is lets say 1 in 10 million. SO chances are you would be buying from one of my competitors. Why wouldn't I help you. The information I share here is accurate and I wouldn't want to embarras myself and I am sure any other sales person here wouldn't want to do the same thing. I can assure this much when you start firing off I think you are defeating the purpose of the board and may not get the correct information you need. Or.... Good Luck

    GP

    "New York teams are superior"

    "Toyota is the superior import"
  • amad1amad1 Member Posts: 123
    I think Internet car shopping is perfect for people like amad1. They feel that dealers are out to screw them, so shopping via the internet is perfect. In fact, after doing his research, he could use the bobst method via email.

    Assuming he did his research correctly, the could agree on a price and fax the contract. Since amad1 will never give the dealership the opportunity to finance, he will bring a check from his credit union to the dealership. He can be in and out in 30 mins.

    He'd be a happy camper, and he would leave us alone.


    You must be psychic, you are so accurate in your analysis.
  • amad1amad1 Member Posts: 123
    That would be too easy! He would probably find something to complain about when he got to the dealership.

    Not true. I we agree on a price over the Internet. The next thing to do is go in and make the purchase.

    The dealerships in their lust to make max profit turn the car buying expirience into a nightmare. In this fast pace world who has time to sit in stinking car dealership for 3-6 hours. People have work to do, kids to feed, cook, clean, wash and many other things.

    I doesn't have to be that way. Car buying, Internet or traditional should be a pleasant expirience.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    The dealerships...turn the car buying expirience (sic) into a nightmare.

    I've bought 5 new cars in the last 22 years, none of the puchasing or shopping experiences were nightmares. Also bought 2 used cars from dealers...no nightmares there either.
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    I've bought 5 new cars in the last 22 years, none of the puchasing or shopping experiences were nightmares. Also bought 2 used cars from dealers...no nightmares there either.

    You know, that's a good point. I've bought 3 new vehicles in the past 3 years, and they have been pleasant experiences for the most part.

    I think amad1 is partly to blame for his bad experiences. Maybe the fact that he expects bad things becomes a self fulfilling prophecy?
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Or maybe he lives in a snake pit like So. Cal or Florida with their $700 doc fee.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    I think amad1 is partly to blame for his bad experiences. Maybe the fact that he expects bad things becomes a self fulfilling prophecy?

    DO onto others as others do onto you.

    GP

    "New York teams are superior"

    " Toyota is the superior import"
  • amad1amad1 Member Posts: 123
    I've bought 5 new cars in the last 22 years, none of the puchasing or shopping experiences were nightmares. Also bought 2 used cars from dealers...no nightmares there either

    If you willing pay whatever they charge and have lots of time on your hand, then I can see how things can be pleasant for someone. Ignorance is bliss!!
  • amad1amad1 Member Posts: 123
    I think amad1 is partly to blame for his bad experiences. Maybe the fact that he expects bad things becomes a self fulfilling prophecy?

    The only thing bad that can happen would be paying too much for a car, whether new or used. I refuse to pay more than TMV, period.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Laydown.
  • lls57lls57 Member Posts: 57
    I thought that I would start my new car buying experience by using the internet. I went to the dealer's website and filled out their form for a request for quote. I was allowed to put in the year, the make, and the model only. There was no place to add notes, comments, etc. So, I know the car salesmen complain about not getting enough info, but what about when your own system won't allow for it! I got a near immediate (within 10-20 minutes) reply. Not at all surprisingly, she said she needed more information (which I was not allowed to give originally), and to please call her.

    Instead, I e-mailed her with more specifics, and asked for a quote. Again, I got a request for more info. When I called her the next day, I told her verbally what my e-mail already said. I am looking at an 09 Corolla XLE, with a few options. She didn't know that Corolla came in XLE, and didn't know it only came as an automatic. But, they have one 09 in stock, an XRS. She is going to do more research, and see what they may have coming in.

    I know it's a brand new car, but why doesn't the car sales person even know what trim levels they have. And, she said she just had Toyota at their dealership yesterday to introduce the new car to them! I can hardly wait to see how this goes!

    Lester
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    I refuse to pay more than TMV, period

    If you are talking Edmunds TMV... then that is too high.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jb_turnerjb_turner Member Posts: 702
    "If you are talking Edmunds TMV... then that is too high."

    This is very much true... This in fact shows that some people need to do research before purchasing. Perhaps in amad1's world all cars should sell for the same price.... get over it amad1 you will not be able to change anything so just stop purchasing cars and save yourself the pain.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    If you are talking Edmunds TMV... then that is too high.

    And in some cases it is way too low
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    The dealerships in their lust to make max profit turn the car buying expirience into a nightmare. In this fast pace world who has time to sit in stinking car dealership for 3-6 hours

    Next time while you are waiting we offer a service that would be perfect for folks just like you. We can work it into your contract for just penny's a month.

    image
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Replying to: amad1 (Feb 06, 2008 11:05 am)
    Laydown.


    LOL

    GP

    "New York teams are Superior"

    "Toyota is the superior import"
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    She didn't know that Corolla came in XLE, and didn't know it only came as an automatic. But, they have one 09 in stock, an XRS. She is going to do more research, and see what they may have coming in.

    I know it's a brand new car, but why doesn't the car sales person even know what trim levels they have. And, she said she just had Toyota at their dealership yesterday to introduce the new car to them! I can hardly wait to see how this goes!


    A lot of the people that are in these BDC ( Business developmant centers) Are there to get as much info that they can for you but most of them are in a room with no wondows and they don get into the cars that often. They are trained but if they don't deal with vehicles directly they may forget some things.

    GP

    "New York teams are Superior"

    "Toyota is the superior import"
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Unfortunately back in 2000 Toyota started doing ride and drives backwards. Before that we would go to the ride and drive and see the new models, drive them, drive the competition, get specs, options, trim levels, pricing and go back to the dealership and wait for the new cars to arrive.

    When they introduced the Echo, Celica, and MR2 roadster we started getting the cars on the lot and weeks later the ride and drive would take place. No literature on the new cars, pricing, trim levels, etc. Only the diligent (like myself) would try to get whatever information was available from the automotive press or the net. Most of my colleagues are not that motivated. They rather stand out on the lot and wait for the next "up" to drive in rather than take an hour a day to bone up on the product.

    Most dealerships "Internet departments" are nothing more than call centers where people who know absolutely nothing about the car you're inquiring talk to you and try to get you to come in to the dealership. It's sad that they've taken this medium and not used it to its full advantage.
    Mack :shades:
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    An angry laydown. How unusual.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    And in some cases it is way too low

    What cases would those be? My experience, and from what I've read from the salesmen here, the vast majority of the time salespeople lick their chops when someone brings in a printed copy of a price for a Edmunds TMV car.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Next time while you are waiting we offer a service that would be perfect for folks just like you

    LOL. My first thought would have been the Peanuts cartoon where Lucy is offering psychiatric help for 5 cents. Just kidding imad. ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Supercharged LRs have been MSRP cars. When they came out Edmunds said TMV was $2500 off. Also, TMV can vary from market to market. It is an excellent guide, the key word being guide.
  • lls57lls57 Member Posts: 57
    Who'd have thought that knowing the basics of the cars (trim levels) was too much to ask. Also, I may be too quick since the car is not out in any quantity. For what it's worth, it's an AutoNation dealership, so maybe I would be better off finding a locally owned dealership. (I'm not sure we even have any around here.)
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Where are you at? No franchised Toyota dealer around? Autonation, what on earth are they doing selling new Toyotas? I know Carmax has a bunch of new car franchises including Toyota/Scion but never heard Autonation did too.
    Mack
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    Yeah Mack, we have an Automation group here in town with about 17 dealerships, including Lambo! ;)
  • amad1amad1 Member Posts: 123
    If you are talking Edmunds TMV... then that is too high.

    It doesn't matter, It could be KBB or NADA (both higher than Edmunds), I'm not paying more.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Then just stop your ranting, buy over the internet, Pay TMV and give the dealer a good CSI survey. Wasn't that simple?
  • lls57lls57 Member Posts: 57
    Well, AutoNation is the nation's largest new car retailer, according to their 2006 annual report. They own 327 franchises, including 14 in the Phoenix area. We have 8 other Toyota dealers, 4 of which I would never deal with, 1 which is a one price dealership (currently selling RAV4s for $500 off MSRP, so I'm not likely to get a good price there), leaving 3 other possibilities.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    I'll show that mean nasty dealer! I won't pay anything more than TMV!!!

    man, this guy is so funny! I've been reading this stuff for the better part of today and laughing hysterically!

    -thene :)
  • amad1amad1 Member Posts: 123
    What cases would those be? My experience, and from what I've read from the salesmen here, the vast majority of the time salespeople lick their chops when someone brings in a printed copy of a price for a Edmunds TMV car.

    There might be some truth to that with new cars because dealer holdback is not shown on Edmunds. But when it comes to used cars, they want no parts of a customer using Edmunds. They always direct you to KBB or NADA.

    If you go to the dealership and look at their used cars, a lot of them put a KBB sign on them. Online, like Auto Trader, its NADA. Both NADA and KBB values are higher than Edmunds.

    They want no parts of a customers using Edmunds as a guide. We're pain in the butt customers to them.

    Also, they hate customer that bring in their own financing. I was email negotiations to purchase a used car, the dealer asked if I had my own financing and said yes. After that the dealer never emailed me back. I waited a couple of days, still no email.

    I then called and the salesperson I was negotiating, when I asked him did he get my email he responded in rude and hostile tone.

    He was a complete total A-hole. Like I have kiss his behind to get him to sale me car. He can take his car and shove it up-----blank.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    They want no parts of a customers using Edmunds as a guide. We're pain in the butt customers to them.

    Correction, YOU are a pain in the butt to deal with. Althought the number of people who have actually asked to pay TMV are minimal, they have always been nice people and I haven't run in fear from them. Big deal. At least they have given me an offer.

    He was a complete total A-hole. Like I have kiss his behind to get him to sale me car. He can take his car and shove it up-----blank.

    Good to hear. Sounds like you've obviously earned this treatment from the way you treat people here.

    If people bring in ANY offer based on some form of fact, I would be happy. That means they are interested in purchasing a vehicle and most likely have a doable number. To turn your back on a purpose because they offer you a doable deal is just silly. It's very apparent to me that poor Amad1 has made his own bed and is now unhappy because he has to sleep in it.

    -moo
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    If you willing pay whatever they charge and have lots of time on your hand, then I can see how things can be pleasant for someone. Ignorance is bliss!!

    I'm not quite sure what the first part is supposed to mean, obviously we agreed on a price in each case. I'm not sure if that means I paid what they charged or they sold for what I was willing to pay...

    As a matter of fact I do have lots of free time. I would guess that you do to, since you seem to have time to post extensively here.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    But when it comes to used cars, they want no parts of a customer using Edmunds.

    During some recent shopping, I came to believe that edmunds was too low on their used car values...at least for the 4 cylinder cars my kids were looking for. This was not basd just on shopping dealers, private party sellers also led me to the conclusion that it was going to be either go above edmunds or don't buy. One of them did get a Focus for about Edmunds "clean" value...I'd have put the car at more like between clean and average...so maybe he paid $3-400 more than edmunds claimed the car was worth...big deal, he got a car he wanted. Maybe edmunds is just wrong...the price he paid was about what KBB put it at for private party sale and he was buying from a dealer

    Several years ago when gas was cheap, IIRC, I had no problem buying a used 4 cyl for edmunds TMV.
  • amad1amad1 Member Posts: 123
    I'm not quite sure what the first part is supposed to mean, obviously we agreed on a price in each case. I'm not sure if that means I paid what they charged or they sold for what I was willing to pay...

    As a matter of fact I do have lots of free time. I would guess that you do to, since you seem to have time to post extensively here


    If I had to guess, it obvious that, not only do you have a lot of free time, you have a lot of money to burn, where price is not an issue. Its good to be blessed financially.

    But for me and many others, we're not as blessed as you are, so price is very important us, we can't afford to help salesmen with their early retirement plans.

    We must spend or money practically and wisely.
  • amad1amad1 Member Posts: 123
    One of them did get a Focus for about Edmunds "clean" value...I'd have put the car at more like between clean and average...so maybe he paid $3-400 more than edmunds claimed the car was worth...big deal, he got a car he wanted

    Again, I can't afford to make a mistake like that. Paying 3-400k too much, according to Edmunds, is crazy.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Paying 3-400k too much, according to Edmunds, is crazy.

    For once, we agree.

    That would be a bad mistake.

    -moo
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Though, if amad was to pay $3-$400k to much I would love to be the sales person because then the early retirement plan he spoke of earlier would be complete with some cabbage to burn.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Ain't that the truth. I would love to see that commission. I'd take a damn vacation for once.

    -moo
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    If you willing pay whatever they charge and have lots of time on your hand, then I can see how things can be pleasant for someone. Ignorance is bliss!!

    If you are convinced that whatever they charge is a rip-off, are always impatient, and would rather play with rattlesnakes than deal with a car salesman, then I could see how things would usually be rather unpleasant as well. Shoot, I might be mad too. :mad:

    Oh, the huge manatee. ;)
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, I really am, but I'm having a hard time understanding you.

    We all know you hate car dealerships, yet you go to them to look at used cars. Why not just buy private party? Clearly you must see some value in going to a dealership, or you a masochist.
  • amad1amad1 Member Posts: 123
    should be as smooth and honest as any other online shopping.

    Here are some examples.

    Amazon.com (music, DVD's, books etc.)
    Fandango (movie theater tickets)
    Ebay (online auctions)
    Netflix (online movie rentals)
    Onecall (online electronics, flat panel hdtv's, digital cameras, DVD/blu ray players, home theater systems etc.)
    Paypal (money transfer)
    Priceline.com (online travel agency)

    I use all of those sites for purchases. They always go so smooth. The trust level is very high.

    If only Internet car buying (while much better than going to the lot) would go as smooth, straight forward and trustworthy the above, it would be a change that's pleasantly welcomed.
  • jb_turnerjb_turner Member Posts: 702
    Good then they can sell you at MSRP.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Let us see - low ticket items and no negotiation. I wonder what the profit % is. I'll bet it is greater than the 9% most invoice to MSRP markups are. Now who is fleecing you?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    If I had to guess, it obvious that, not only do you have a lot of free time, you have a lot of money to burn

    I do have a lot of money, however I prefer not to burn it (that is one reason we have a lot). I think I have done just fine conserving it on recent car purchases. I bought my 2007 Mazda6 at $5000 below MSRP...this is invoice minus a $2000 rebate minus an additional ~$1000 discount. My kid bought his used 2001 Focus, with 85K mi, for $4400. My other kid boought a used 1996 Jetta with 98K mi, from a private party, for $1800 (was known to need about $500 work). We got about a $1000 discount and 2.9% financing on the redesigned 2005.5 Jetta, when it was a brand new model...bought about 2 months after introduction.

    I think I have gotten good deals and without hating the sales people or having them hate me.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Salespeople, and dealerships don't mind giving a car away when they have to.
    As long as the transaction goes quickly and smoothly.
    You get into trouble when you have a guy w/ a chip on his shoulder, or a grinder who will argue for an hour over $100. Or someone w/ bad credit who wants an A rate.
    A salesperson doesn't want to waste a lot of time on a mini, whether its face to face time, or internet time.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Agreed, if you have done your home work and know you are offering a short deal make it painless for all party's concerned.

    Offer $100 over or what ever and tell them you will come today at 3:00 pm to pick the car up check in hand. Wham, bam, thank ya Mam. The deal is done. That is plus business on a new car we will take all day.

    If you make that offer and drag it out for a week then they may begin to lose interest.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    All of those businesses and services, as well as quite a few others, have figured out how to work in the online world. There were a bunch of stumbles along the way. Part of the problem with your reasoning here is that simply because online has worked for one industry, it does not follow that it will work equally well for another industry or that similar results can be achieved. Every industry has its own unique idiosyncrasies that must be accommodated.

    For instance, a few years ago I worked with a company that was doing some retail web development work for a large mattress manufacturer. Originally the manufacturer wanted the site to be a full retail site focussed on sales that would facilitate complete sales transactions. After much consideration, it was decided this did not make much sense. Customers still like to go to the store and check out the mattresses, lay on them, touch them, and so on before making the decision to buy, and a bit of haggling still occurs pretty often in furniture and related world. The site ended up being an informative online service that ultimately led the customer to retail stores. Online transactions are targeted more towards big buyers like hotels, resorts, and such. For all I know the system is still working quite well, but it is very different from the Amazon or Ebay experience.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,783
    should be as smooth and honest as ... Ebay (online auctions)

    LOL!

    Lessee... my last Ebay experience. Used Buy It Now, so I paid asking price. Immediately paid through paypal. Seller sent automated email saying "thanks." 1 month goes by, no package, so I email seller. No response. Try again. No response. Complaint filed with paypal. 30 days go by, paypal says "ok, we'll give you your money back." Seller says "No wait! I'm sending package right now!" Paypal relents, allows seller to send package, I finally get it 65 days after auction ends .... WAY after xmas, for which it was supposed to be a gift and I had to buy something else for the person. All told, I'm not sure how much time this took up, but it was definitely in the "hours" range.

    Yeah, that sounds like a GREAT WAY to buy a car!!!

    On the other hand, I could do what I did with the last car purchase. Went to the store, test drove, spent maybe 3 hours there and drove out with a car for well under TMV and $800 more for the trade than auction value.

    Hmmmm.... tough choice here!

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Fandango is a terrible example posted by our consumer advocate hero. He knocks the biz but then pays an extra $1 for a movie ticket to keep from standing in line.

    Same with pay pal, instead of paying an extra dollar for a stamp and a money order he goes and pays 3% or whatever it is.

    All he has proved is that he is willing to pay above sticker for the convenience factor.
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