I think it is a combination of both. If you show up for 8 hours and do your job to the best of your ability, then you should get paid.
Theres the problem most dealerships have. It is easy to get a guy to give you a good 8 hours. The only problem is that when they hit the 8 hour mark they still have 4 hours left in their work day.
Its hard to put some one on a salary commensurate with the hours we work.
We have tried 100 different ways, split shifts, part timers, salary plus per unit bonus, big draws, little draws, and it always falls back to the same thing.
The guys who are good want the chance to have the unlimited income and the guys who are not ride the pay plan.
We had to totally change our way of thinking when the internet came along. At first the guy running it would like to have starved to death on the commission he was making.
Now we have a dedicated salary position and he creates the lead and passes it off to a sales person. We run between 9 and 11% close ratio on any given month.
Amad lives in California. He already has a 3 day cooling off period on a new car. It is part of the "Car Buyers Bill Of Rights" that went into effect out there last year.
The salesperson wants to meet my needs, OK sure mack sure.
That statement shows you know absolutely nothing about sales. Nothing is ever sold unless a need is filled. my job as a salesperson (regardless of industry) is to find a clients needs and find a product for him that best fills that need.
Once again, of course. You have made it perfectly clear that you don't have a very positive impression of car salespersons, but some of your remarks just don't make any sense. Any business, if it does not meet the needs and desires and address the concerns of its customers, all of them, will not stay in business very long. It will not attract new customers or retain current customers.
The first job of any salesperson, regardless of industry, is to find out the needs, desires, and concerns of a potential customer, and then work to fill them and address them.
For new and used car buyers Dealers must provide an itemized price list for items such as warranties and insurance, etc., if the items are being financed. Dealer compensation from an institution financing the purchase of a vehicle is limited to no more than 2 percent for a loan term over 60 months and 2.5 percent for a loan term of 60 months or less. Dealers must provide buyers with their credit score and an explanation of how it is used. For used car buyers only A used car buyer may obtain a two-day sales contract cancellation option. Used cars advertised as "certified" must meet specific requirements. Used car buyers may purchase a two-day sales contract cancellation option. There is no "cooling off" period unless you obtain a contract cancellation option. Consumers who purchase a used car for less than $40,000 must be given an opportunity to purchase a two-day Contract Cancellation Option Agreement.
Important: The contract cancellation option does not apply to used cars priced at $40,000 or more, new cars, private party sales, motorcycles, off-road vehicles, recreational vehicles, or vehicles sold for business or commercial use.
Cancellation option specifics The following indicates how much you can expect to pay if you choose to purchase the contract cancellation option:
$75 for a vehicle costing $5,000 or less; $150 for a vehicle costing more than $5,000, but not more than $10,000; $250 for a vehicle costing more than $10,000, but not more than $30,000; or One percent of the purchase price for a vehicle costing more than $30,000, but not more than $39,999.99 If you choose to return the vehicle, within the time specified, the dealer can charge a maximum restocking fee of:
$175 for a vehicle costing $5,000 or less; $350 for a vehicle costing more than $5,000, but less than $10,000; or $500 for a vehicle costing $10,000 but less than $40,000. Note: If the contract cancellation fee was charged, it must be deducted from the restocking fee.
Returning a vehicle using the contract cancellation option The buyer must return the vehicle:
To the dealer he or she bought it from by close of business within two days, or more, if allowed by the contract; With no miles in excess of those permitted by the contract (the dealer may limit the number of miles a vehicle can be driven during the contract cancellation period, but it may not be a number less than 250 miles); With all original receipts of the sales and cancellation option contracts; In the same condition as it was received, except for reasonable wear and tear and any defects or mechanical problems occurring after the buyer takes possession of the vehicle; and Free of all liens and encumbrances, other than any lien or encumbrance created by the sales contract. When the car is returned, the dealer must provide to the buyer:
A full refund, including sales tax, any registration fees, and any deposit or trade-in vehicle collected from the buyer. (Note: The fee charged for the contract cancellation option is non-refundable. If the dealer did not charge for the option and has sold or transferred title to the vehicle that the buyer used as a down payment or trade-in, the fair market value or value stated in the sales contract, whichever is greater, must be refunded.) If the buyer has not returned the vehicle by the standards set above, the dealer has the right to refuse to accept return of the vehicle; however, written notice must be provided to the buyer. Prohibited, "certified" used vehicles The dealer must perform a complete inspection of the vehicle and must provide consumers with a copy of the inspection report. Dealers are prohibited from advertising a vehicle as "certified" if:
Odometer does not indicate the actual mileage of the vehicle. The vehicle was purchased under state or federal warranty law (repurchased by the manufacturer or dealer). The vehicle was damaged by accident, fire, or flood unless repaired to safe operational condition prior to sale. The title was branded as a Lemon Law Buyback, manufacturer repurchase, salvage, junk, non-repairable, flood, or similar designation. The vehicle has frame damage or was sold "as is." The seller failed to provide the buyer with a complete inspection report of all components inspected. Important: Inquire as to why the vehicle cannot be certified.
Written disclosure of purchase price for items usually listed with the monthly payment contract The dealer must provide a document indicating the price of specified items purchased and the effect of those items on installment payments. (Civil Code §2982.2)
Items requiring disclosure include a service contract, an insurance product, a debt cancellation agreement ("gap" insurance), a theft deterrent device, a surface protection product, and a vehicle Contract Cancellation Option Agreement. No charges may be added to the contract without full disclosure and without your consent. The document must advise you of the cost of the monthly installment payments with and without items listed. Finance fee caps for auto financing If a dealer obtains financing on your behalf, the dealer compensation from an institution financing the purchase of a vehicle is limited to no more than: 2 percent of the purchase amount for contracts with a term of more than 60 months; or 2.5 percent of the purchase amount for contracts with a term of 60 months or less. This limitation does not apply when the assignment requires the dealer to bear the entire risk of financial performance for you or when the assignment is more than six months after the date of the conditional sale contract. Written disclosure about your consumer credit score Dealers must provide a "Notice to Vehicle Credit Applicant" document, which discloses:
The credit score obtained and used by the dealer and the name of the credit reporting agency providing the credit score to the dealer; The range of possible credit scores established by the credit reporting agency that provided the credit score; The address and telephone number of each credit reporting agency providing a credit score that was obtained and used by the dealer. You may contact your local DMV Investigations Office If the dealer fails to comply with the Car Buyer's Bill of Rights, you may complete and mail a Record of Complaint Form (INV 172A) to the Department of Motor Vehicles. The form is available:
On the Internet at www.dmv.ca.gov under the Forms menu, By calling 1-800-777-0133 to have it mailed to you, or At your local DMV field office. The form provides the addresses of DMV Investigations District Offices.
To check a dealer's license status You can check a dealer's license status by going online at www.dmv.ca.gov and click on the links:
"Online Services," and "Occupational Licensing Information System." Civil disputes Whenever possible, you s
Amad lives in California. He already has a 3 day cooling off period on a new car. It is part of the "Car Buyers Bill Of Rights" that went into effect out there last year
I already knew about that. However that's not the cooling off period that I want. That's a 2 day cancellation fee. What I'm proposing wouldn't cost the consumer a dime. Also, what I want is 3 day cooling off period nationwide and not just for California residents.
I would also like to see stiff penalties for dealerships that intentionally lie and mislead consumers. I'm talking 2K for each infraction. After 10 infractions, that dealership needs to be censured. This would force all dealerships to be 110% honest with the consumers.
Those fines would be for lies or misrepresentations that come via Internet or traditional sales.
Memo to the traditional car salespeople.
THE 4 SQUARES HAS GO TO. Its the sheet of deceit!!
If you were running a dealership, would you like to see a no cost return policy for your $20k investments? Even BestBuy has a restocking fee on their items. There has to be some sort of penalty for making a rash/poor decision. You might not take advantage of this 3 day cooling off period, but someone else will. The business has to protect their interests.
I would also like to see stiff penalties for dealerships that intentionally lie and mislead consumers.
I don't see anything wrong with that. Isn't there something in place already? The burden of proof is what might become a problem. So, like in any business, if you have been lied to, the most effective means of punishing the dealer is not to do business with them.
THE 4 SQUARES HAS GO TO. Its the sheet of deceit!! '
Again, I don't think we're in disagreement over this. I don't think there is much place for the 4 square anymore. However, I don't see it as the 'sheet of deceit'. I see it as an antiquated way of putting numbers together for the customer.
I think if you tamed your rhetoric a little, you could actually get some decent feedback from the folks on this forum.
Again, I'm not going to attack you or hold any ill will against you. If civil discourse is what you're interested in, then please tame your posts. Blanket statements about an entire industry do more to alienate you and your cause than help.
How come you do not reply to the posts that shows you wrong and you just start your (by now getting old) tirade again? Also, if you applied your tirade to an ethnic group instead of a professional group, you would be a raciest.
Also, what I want is 3 day cooling off period nationwide and not just for California residents.
So, do you not see a problem with someone going to a dealership, making a deal on a car, driving that car away and stopping at every other dealership within 50 miles to get a better deal, then returning the car they bought first? You KNOW that would happen every single day, many times a day, and dealers would be left with all of these miled up returned cars.
Even if we put such a law in place, but the buyer couldn't actually drive away in the car for 3 days (such as in a mortgage when you don't actually get the money until the 3 days have gone by), dealers would have half their inventory tied up by buyers who will just back out 3 days later. They may have SERIOUS buyers who come in but can't purchase a car because someone else already signed their name to it. By the time the first buyer backs out, that 2nd buyer has moved on.
Sure, I LIKE the idea of a 3-day cooling off period for ME, but it is obvious to me that the system would be abused by all the schmucks out there and ruin it for the rest of us. So it just can't be.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
would also like to see stiff penalties for dealerships that intentionally lie and mislead consumers. I'm talking 2K for each infraction. After 10 infractions, that dealership needs to be censured. This would force all dealerships to be 110% honest with the consumers
I agree 100% as long as the consumer will be required to be held at the same standard.
If I tell a customer that a car is in stock and he can have it for $20K and he shows up and the car is not in stock or I raise the price $1K then fine the crap out of me, go ahead and call it violating a verbal contract.
On the same not if a consumer comes in agrees to buy a car and says they will be back in the morning to pick it up and they don't come back or go buy some place else he gets fined $2K for violating the same verbal contract.
I would bet you could get more dealers to sign off on that deal then you could consumers.
I have been at it since the mid 90's and never even seen a 4 square worked. Now granted I have been at the same store the entire time with the exception of 6 months I was in Maryland on a LOA.
Before that when ever I bought a car I was a lay down so I have no idea how I was worked.
Honestly,it is not horrible to desire protections for consumers. There are protections already in place for most instances, but the usual routes are through arbitration, mediation, or litigation. Not pleasant for anyone involved. Most legislation in this area is very difficult to enforce, and almost invariably set up slippery slopes. There will always be those who abuse return policies and cooling of periods. That's not good for anybody.
I'm confident that even the salespeople contributing here would agree with you that they wish all of their compatriots were always honest and above board. Hard to legislate honesty though. Very difficult to show intent. With transactions involving a contract or similar instrument, it will almost always come down to what was in any written agreement, not he said/she said exchanges that may or may not have occurred.
Legislation, arbitration, mediation, and litigation are just dandy, but by far the most effective consumer protection will always be education. An informed consumer will always be the best protected consumer.
Great point. I partially mentioned the abuse that could take place, but I hadn't even thought of this scenario.
Here's the problem. If these laws went into effect, the dealerships would stop wanting to be in the car business because of the all the side effects. They wouldn't be making as much money and they would just throw up their hands and move into more lucrative businesses. So, you would have these giant conglomerates that would be able to fix prices because there just isn't as much competition. Think CarMax everywhere.
I have seen mentioned in the messages that the Rabbit may not be here next year, or for very much longer. Why is that? Is it not doing well? If there is some problem, should you be able to get an even lower price on a new 2008 because of it?
Well said. Over the past 10 years many consumer protections have been implimented - most notebly full disclosure. Customer education is the best protection without a doubt.
How come you do not reply to the posts that shows you wrong and you just start your (by now getting old) tirade again?
I was thinking the same thing. Why no reply on the consequences of having a 3 day cooling off period? Great for the consumer yeah... but the dealerships would go out of business.
I already knew about that. However that's not the cooling off period that I want. That's a 2 day cancellation fee. What I'm proposing wouldn't cost the consumer a dime.
Nothing is free. If there were not an explicit fee for this, then everyone would have to pay the cost of it. What it comes down to is you want a cancelation option, but are too cheap to pay an extra 1.5-3% to get it. Instead you want everyone else, who may have no desire for this, to subsidise your preferences.
There's an article about Chrysler cutting the number of their models down along with the number of dealerships, but more on topic with this thread:
General Motors said Friday that 3,900 auto dealers who sell GM’s Certified Used Cars will list their entire inventories on eBay Motors, according to industry publication Automotive News. The move could radically alter the used-car business, the report said.
Mark Matthews, GM’s director of used-vehicle activities, told Automotive News that the certified used-vehicle inventory of dealers who sell GM Certified-brand vehicles will be listed on the third-party classified site starting in the second quarter.
GM’s brands include used Buick, Chevrolet, GMC, Pontiac and Oldsmobile vehicles. Cadillac, Hummer, Saab and Saturn have separate certified used-vehicle programs, but their certified-used inventories will be listed on the site, too, Matthews told the publication.
I have seen mentioned in the messages that the Rabbit may not be here next year, or for very much longer. Why is that? Is it not doing well? If there is some problem, should you be able to get an even lower price on a new 2008 because of it?
You are actually in the right place. The rumors are true, VW will be fading out the Rabbit. The reason - currently Rabbit is being built in Germany, and because of the weak dollar - they lose about $2K on every car they sell here. Theis goal is to move all the value cars - Jetta, Beetle and Rabbit to other countries, such as Mexico, or maybe even US, and the high-end VW - Passat, Touareg, Eos, GTI - will stay in Germany.
Can anyone tell me what exactly is so bad about four square sheets? Unless I misunderstanding them, it's the price, the trade, the financing, the montly payment. If things are missing, like rate, please put it on. So if they're filled right, I can't see anything wrong there. Haven't seen one, so I really have a hard time to imagine what's so bad about them. Unless of course these are just four random numbers pick out of the blue - then yes, it's bad. But that can be done without four squares as well.
It must be so easy to write those terrible things about people nobody else met at forum you know you can't be accountable (other than post removal) under name and location that can't be traced about situation nobody really knows about. I salute your bravery and integrity!
Those four squares aren't really anything specially bad or good. It's more the way they may be played. You could work me those squares, no problem - just put all pertinent info and we're good. Anybody half a brain should know payment is not the way to go. Just about worst. So - know your rate, know your price and know your trade and you can quickly know what the four squares should yield.
It's not about "hoping" you could get that bimmer for 399/month, it's about knowing how much you are really willing to pay and whether you really can. The problem is tons of people have totally unreasonable expectations - which makes them vulnerable as they really don't know the real price. Once they learn it's outside of their dream value, it can be anything. Know your numbers before.
That's great advice there amad1, specially from a used car salesman that only sold cars for three months. Must have not cut the mustard so now he has an axe to grind. Sound familiar?
you should bring your own El Marko pens of various colors with you when negotiating. Just cross out the manager's price and write in your own with "best and final offer" circled.
That's great advice there amad1, specially from a used car salesman that only sold cars for three months. Must have not cut the mustard so now he has an axe to grind. Sound familiar?
It doesn't matter if he sold cars 3 months or 3 years, deceit is deceit no matter how long he was deceiving.
I have no doubt that the 4-square is still used and that it trips up unwary, ill-informed customers, who are at least partly to blame. However, as a consumer living in the age of internet there is really no reason to engage in the 4-sqaure "dance". Simply remove three parts of the equation:
1) Bring no trade-in. Sell your car privately or to Carmax. Never trade an upside- down vehicle. 2) Check your credit scores and get a rate quote from your local CU, on-line financier or bank--at least you will know the going rate based on your credit worthiness. 3) Based on #2 figure out what you can afford by using an online or financial calculator,that will provide a monthly payment for a given period/down payment/loan rate.
This leaves only the 4th box (price of car) to be negotiated. Search the prices-paid forums, check for customer and dealer incentives and, voila, you have a price to offer. Either make an offer that allows for counter offer or make your take-it-or-leave-it offer. If a deal can't be agreed to, move to another dealership (or brand). The above approach--and variants-- are what many edmunds posters utilize and it leads to a pleasurable--even prosperous--life. Best of all, you have bought a car instead of a ten-ton load of bitterness, vituperative accusation and self-doubt.
Incidentally, I have never once had a used or new car dealer trot out the 4-square. I haven't always reached an agreement with the salesman, but there were no recriminations on either side.
The only time a dealer tried a 4 square on me was after I had already told him the numbers he had to beat. Evidently, he didn't think I was serious because he never came close (and then "misplaced" my keys).
It worked out though - my local dealer traded for his car!
". . .a ten-ton load of bitterness, vituperative accusation and self-doubt."
Excellent phrase, and the rest of the post was no slouch either.
Buying a car obviously has a lot of opportunity for pleasure, so long as the negatives can be kept low. I've learned ways to do it, and it sounds like you have too.
My most recent vehicle (my wife's, actually) was purchased at the local screamer ad outfit (she wants the sales tax to go local) that actually did trot out a four-square. I got an okay deal, but it was a much less pleasant experience than I had the previous several times. Won't be going back there, for anything, including (especially) service.
Even the city sales tax? That's a great plan, if true, but around here the stores collect the city sales tax based on where they're located. They vary a bit, too, so it's another few dollars one way or the other on the bottom line for a car.
Comments
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
That happens once in a while when you have too many pages opened at once. Thanks for catching it.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Theres the problem most dealerships have. It is easy to get a guy to give you a good 8 hours. The only problem is that when they hit the 8 hour mark they still have 4 hours left in their work day.
Its hard to put some one on a salary commensurate with the hours we work.
We have tried 100 different ways, split shifts, part timers, salary plus per unit bonus, big draws, little draws, and it always falls back to the same thing.
The guys who are good want the chance to have the unlimited income and the guys who are not ride the pay plan.
We had to totally change our way of thinking when the internet came along. At first the guy running it would like to have starved to death on the commission he was making.
Now we have a dedicated salary position and he creates the lead and passes it off to a sales person. We run between 9 and 11% close ratio on any given month.
That's pretty strong.
-moo
-moo
That statement shows you know absolutely nothing about sales. Nothing is ever sold unless a need is filled. my job as a salesperson (regardless of industry) is to find a clients needs and find a product for him that best fills that need.
The first job of any salesperson, regardless of industry, is to find out the needs, desires, and concerns of a potential customer, and then work to fill them and address them.
For new and used car buyers
Dealers must provide an itemized price list for items such as warranties and insurance, etc., if the items are being financed.
Dealer compensation from an institution financing the purchase of a vehicle is limited to no more than 2 percent for a loan term over 60 months and 2.5 percent for a loan term of 60 months or less.
Dealers must provide buyers with their credit score and an explanation of how it is used.
For used car buyers only
A used car buyer may obtain a two-day sales contract cancellation option.
Used cars advertised as "certified" must meet specific requirements.
Used car buyers may purchase a two-day sales contract cancellation option.
There is no "cooling off" period unless you obtain a contract cancellation option. Consumers who purchase a used car for less than $40,000 must be given an opportunity to purchase a two-day Contract Cancellation Option Agreement.
Important: The contract cancellation option does not apply to used cars priced at $40,000 or more, new cars, private party sales, motorcycles, off-road vehicles, recreational vehicles, or vehicles sold for business or commercial use.
Cancellation option specifics
The following indicates how much you can expect to pay if you choose to purchase the contract cancellation option:
$75 for a vehicle costing $5,000 or less;
$150 for a vehicle costing more than $5,000, but not more than $10,000;
$250 for a vehicle costing more than $10,000, but not more than $30,000; or
One percent of the purchase price for a vehicle costing more than $30,000, but not more than $39,999.99
If you choose to return the vehicle, within the time specified, the dealer can charge a maximum restocking fee of:
$175 for a vehicle costing $5,000 or less;
$350 for a vehicle costing more than $5,000, but less than $10,000; or
$500 for a vehicle costing $10,000 but less than $40,000.
Note: If the contract cancellation fee was charged, it must be deducted from the restocking fee.
Returning a vehicle using the contract cancellation option
The buyer must return the vehicle:
To the dealer he or she bought it from by close of business within two days, or more, if allowed by the contract;
With no miles in excess of those permitted by the contract (the dealer may limit the number of miles a vehicle can be driven during the contract cancellation period, but it may not be a number less than 250 miles);
With all original receipts of the sales and cancellation option contracts;
In the same condition as it was received, except for reasonable wear and tear and any defects or mechanical problems occurring after the buyer takes possession of the vehicle; and
Free of all liens and encumbrances, other than any lien or encumbrance created by the sales contract.
When the car is returned, the dealer must provide to the buyer:
A full refund, including sales tax, any registration fees, and any deposit or trade-in vehicle collected from the buyer. (Note: The fee charged for the contract cancellation option is non-refundable. If the dealer did not charge for the option and has sold or transferred title to the vehicle that the buyer used as a down payment or trade-in, the fair market value or value stated in the sales contract, whichever is greater, must be refunded.)
If the buyer has not returned the vehicle by the standards set above, the dealer has the right to refuse to accept return of the vehicle; however, written notice must be provided to the buyer.
Prohibited, "certified" used vehicles
The dealer must perform a complete inspection of the vehicle and must provide consumers with a copy of the inspection report. Dealers are prohibited from advertising a vehicle as "certified" if:
Odometer does not indicate the actual mileage of the vehicle.
The vehicle was purchased under state or federal warranty law (repurchased by the manufacturer or dealer).
The vehicle was damaged by accident, fire, or flood unless repaired to safe operational condition prior to sale.
The title was branded as a Lemon Law Buyback, manufacturer repurchase, salvage, junk, non-repairable, flood, or similar designation.
The vehicle has frame damage or was sold "as is."
The seller failed to provide the buyer with a complete inspection report of all components inspected.
Important: Inquire as to why the vehicle cannot be certified.
Written disclosure of purchase price for items usually listed with the monthly payment contract
The dealer must provide a document indicating the price of specified items purchased and the effect of those items on installment payments. (Civil Code §2982.2)
Items requiring disclosure include a service contract, an insurance product, a debt cancellation agreement ("gap" insurance), a theft deterrent device, a surface protection product, and a vehicle Contract Cancellation Option Agreement.
No charges may be added to the contract without full disclosure and without your consent.
The document must advise you of the cost of the monthly installment payments with and without items listed.
Finance fee caps for auto financing
If a dealer obtains financing on your behalf, the dealer compensation from an institution financing the purchase of a vehicle is limited to no more than:
2 percent of the purchase amount for contracts with a term of more than 60 months; or
2.5 percent of the purchase amount for contracts with a term of 60 months or less.
This limitation does not apply when the assignment requires the dealer to bear the entire risk of financial performance for you or when the assignment is more than six months after the date of the conditional sale contract.
Written disclosure about your consumer credit score
Dealers must provide a "Notice to Vehicle Credit Applicant" document, which discloses:
The credit score obtained and used by the dealer and the name of the credit reporting agency providing the credit score to the dealer;
The range of possible credit scores established by the credit reporting agency that provided the credit score;
The address and telephone number of each credit reporting agency providing a credit score that was obtained and used by the dealer.
You may contact your local DMV Investigations Office
If the dealer fails to comply with the Car Buyer's Bill of Rights, you may complete and mail a Record of Complaint Form (INV 172A) to the Department of Motor Vehicles. The form is available:
On the Internet at www.dmv.ca.gov under the Forms menu,
By calling 1-800-777-0133 to have it mailed to you, or
At your local DMV field office.
The form provides the addresses of DMV Investigations District Offices.
To check a dealer's license status
You can check a dealer's license status by going online at www.dmv.ca.gov and click on the links:
"Online Services," and
"Occupational Licensing Information System."
Civil disputes
Whenever possible, you s
-moo
I already knew about that. However that's not the cooling off period that I want. That's a 2 day cancellation fee. What I'm proposing wouldn't cost the consumer a dime. Also, what I want is 3 day cooling off period nationwide and not just for California residents.
I would also like to see stiff penalties for dealerships that intentionally lie and mislead consumers. I'm talking 2K for each infraction. After 10 infractions, that dealership needs to be censured. This would force all dealerships to be 110% honest with the consumers.
Those fines would be for lies or misrepresentations that come via Internet or traditional sales.
Memo to the traditional car salespeople.
THE 4 SQUARES HAS GO TO. Its the sheet of deceit!!
LOL. That's just like jipster, always taking the side of the car salesman.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If you were running a dealership, would you like to see a no cost return policy for your $20k investments? Even BestBuy has a restocking fee on their items. There has to be some sort of penalty for making a rash/poor decision. You might not take advantage of this 3 day cooling off period, but someone else will. The business has to protect their interests.
I would also like to see stiff penalties for dealerships that intentionally lie and mislead consumers.
I don't see anything wrong with that. Isn't there something in place already? The burden of proof is what might become a problem. So, like in any business, if you have been lied to, the most effective means of punishing the dealer is not to do business with them.
THE 4 SQUARES HAS GO TO. Its the sheet of deceit!! '
Again, I don't think we're in disagreement over this. I don't think there is much place for the 4 square anymore. However, I don't see it as the 'sheet of deceit'. I see it as an antiquated way of putting numbers together for the customer.
I think if you tamed your rhetoric a little, you could actually get some decent feedback from the folks on this forum.
Again, I'm not going to attack you or hold any ill will against you. If civil discourse is what you're interested in, then please tame your posts. Blanket statements about an entire industry do more to alienate you and your cause than help.
Thanks,
-moo
So, do you not see a problem with someone going to a dealership, making a deal on a car, driving that car away and stopping at every other dealership within 50 miles to get a better deal, then returning the car they bought first? You KNOW that would happen every single day, many times a day, and dealers would be left with all of these miled up returned cars.
Even if we put such a law in place, but the buyer couldn't actually drive away in the car for 3 days (such as in a mortgage when you don't actually get the money until the 3 days have gone by), dealers would have half their inventory tied up by buyers who will just back out 3 days later. They may have SERIOUS buyers who come in but can't purchase a car because someone else already signed their name to it. By the time the first buyer backs out, that 2nd buyer has moved on.
Sure, I LIKE the idea of a 3-day cooling off period for ME, but it is obvious to me that the system would be abused by all the schmucks out there and ruin it for the rest of us. So it just can't be.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
he/she hasn't responded to any of mine yet.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I agree 100% as long as the consumer will be required to be held at the same standard.
If I tell a customer that a car is in stock and he can have it for $20K and he shows up and the car is not in stock or I raise the price $1K then fine the crap out of me, go ahead and call it violating a verbal contract.
On the same not if a consumer comes in agrees to buy a car and says they will be back in the morning to pick it up and they don't come back or go buy some place else he gets fined $2K for violating the same verbal contract.
I would bet you could get more dealers to sign off on that deal then you could consumers.
Before that when ever I bought a car I was a lay down so I have no idea how I was worked.
I'm confident that even the salespeople contributing here would agree with you that they wish all of their compatriots were always honest and above board. Hard to legislate honesty though. Very difficult to show intent. With transactions involving a contract or similar instrument, it will almost always come down to what was in any written agreement, not he said/she said exchanges that may or may not have occurred.
Legislation, arbitration, mediation, and litigation are just dandy, but by far the most effective consumer protection will always be education. An informed consumer will always be the best protected consumer.
Here's the problem. If these laws went into effect, the dealerships would stop wanting to be in the car business because of the all the side effects. They wouldn't be making as much money and they would just throw up their hands and move into more lucrative businesses. So, you would have these giant conglomerates that would be able to fix prices because there just isn't as much competition. Think CarMax everywhere.
-moo
Exactly. Don't want to be informed? That's your perogative. Nothing illegal about that.
-moo
Where you find truth, justice and the American way... that's the side you'll find jipster on. :shades:
I don't know the answer to your question, sorry.
You're definitely in the wrong place though. I would suggest checking out the VW Rabbit forum.
-moo
I was thinking the same thing. Why no reply on the consequences of having a 3 day cooling off period? Great for the consumer yeah... but the dealerships would go out of business.
There is a difference between regulating an industry and telling someone how to run there business.
If they were to put some strong regulations in place the only ones it will hurt are the ones that are hurting our industry in the first place.
Unless they got ridiculous it would not effect our day to day operation at all.
Nothing is free. If there were not an explicit fee for this, then everyone would have to pay the cost of it. What it comes down to is you want a cancelation option, but are too cheap to pay an extra 1.5-3% to get it. Instead you want everyone else, who may have no desire for this, to subsidise your preferences.
By calling 1-800-777-0133 to have it mailed to you, or
Wow with that being said I don't know if I would want to spot deliver a vehicle or have everyone wait two days :confuse:
GP
"New York teams are superior"
"Toyota is the superior import"
General Motors said Friday that 3,900 auto dealers who sell GM’s Certified Used Cars will list their entire inventories on eBay Motors, according to industry publication Automotive News. The move could radically alter the used-car business, the report said.
Mark Matthews, GM’s director of used-vehicle activities, told Automotive News that the certified used-vehicle inventory of dealers who sell GM Certified-brand vehicles will be listed on the third-party classified site starting in the second quarter.
GM’s brands include used Buick, Chevrolet, GMC, Pontiac and Oldsmobile vehicles. Cadillac, Hummer, Saab and Saturn have separate certified used-vehicle programs, but their certified-used inventories will be listed on the site, too, Matthews told the publication.
You are actually in the right place.
The rumors are true, VW will be fading out the Rabbit. The reason - currently Rabbit is being built in Germany, and because of the weak dollar - they lose about $2K on every car they sell here. Theis goal is to move all the value cars - Jetta, Beetle and Rabbit to other countries, such as Mexico, or maybe even US, and the high-end VW - Passat, Touareg, Eos, GTI - will stay in Germany.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It's not about "hoping" you could get that bimmer for 399/month, it's about knowing how much you are really willing to pay and whether you really can. The problem is tons of people have totally unreasonable expectations - which makes them vulnerable as they really don't know the real price. Once they learn it's outside of their dream value, it can be anything. Know your numbers before.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It doesn't matter if he sold cars 3 months or 3 years, deceit is deceit no matter how long he was deceiving.
Just to make a clarification in case some of you don't know, the 3 day cooling off period in California is only for the used cae sales, not new cars.
1) Bring no trade-in. Sell your car privately or to Carmax. Never trade an upside- down vehicle.
2) Check your credit scores and get a rate quote from your local CU, on-line financier or bank--at least you will know the going rate based on your credit worthiness.
3) Based on #2 figure out what you can afford by using an online or financial calculator,that will provide a monthly payment for a given period/down payment/loan rate.
This leaves only the 4th box (price of car) to be negotiated. Search the prices-paid forums, check for customer and dealer incentives and, voila, you have a price to offer. Either make an offer that allows for counter offer or make your take-it-or-leave-it offer. If a deal can't be agreed to, move to another dealership (or brand). The above approach--and variants-- are what many edmunds posters utilize and it leads to a pleasurable--even prosperous--life. Best of all, you have bought a car instead of a ten-ton load of bitterness, vituperative accusation and self-doubt.
Incidentally, I have never once had a used or new car dealer trot out the 4-square. I haven't always reached an agreement with the salesman, but there were no recriminations on either side.
Gogiboy
It worked out though - my local dealer traded for his car!
Excellent phrase, and the rest of the post was no slouch either.
Buying a car obviously has a lot of opportunity for pleasure, so long as the negatives can be kept low. I've learned ways to do it, and it sounds like you have too.
My most recent vehicle (my wife's, actually) was purchased at the local screamer ad outfit (she wants the sales tax to go local) that actually did trot out a four-square. I got an okay deal, but it was a much less pleasant experience than I had the previous several times. Won't be going back there, for anything, including (especially) service.