Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying

tidester

oh grand poobah of everything mathematics, missed that one!!

I didn't miss the 8 but, trust me, no one was more surprised that I missed them on the first round than yours truly.

I assume you'll be sending me to Disney World now.

Kyfdx gets the gold because he was first but I'm thinking a trip to Disney would be just about right for second place. :surprise:

And, Joel, I'd be happy to do some consulting but Pat comes along - as my accountant. :P

jeffyscott

when i buy my next vehicle, i think i'm going to get an internet quote and then go to a dealership and tell the sales person i won't pay over pay '11110100' (binary) a month.

I'm going to offer $50,000 + 50,000...and when they agree, I will claim that it equals $00,000.

jmonroe

I'm going to offer $50,000 + 50,000...and when they agree, I will claim that it equals $00,000.

That's Mack Math. :confuse:

jmonroe

wantnohassles

Hello. I'm a newbie.

I am certain that this topic had been discussed already but I noticed that the answers I am seeking are buried deep in the threads and locating them is cumbersome. I just need the direct answers (or list).

I've read the article "Confessions of a Car Salesman" and found it interesting. I gathered that purchasing via researching the internet and speaking with the fleet manager would likely result in a price at or lower than invoice.

How true is this? How does one find the fleet manager's contact information? What are the steps or how does one engage in a discussion with the fleet manager and end up with a deal?

Thanks.

micosilver

"Confessions" were written a few years ago, and they are a bit outdated. These days every dealership has an Internet manager that takes care of all online inquiries. You can submit an inquiry through Edmunds, manufacturer website or dealer website. Be as detaield as you can in your inquiry, submit it to 3 or 4 dealers in your area, and see which one will be the most responsive and offers you the lowest price for the vehicle you want.

parviz

I agree, I would only add that if you really want a great price on the exact car you want you should try more than 3-4 dealers. In the last 2 purchases I made I sent out inquiries to over 20 dealers in the 120 mile radius and actually in both cases my best prices came from 60 to 90 mile away dealers. The price difference was substantial (over $1000) justifying the trip and time to me.

occupant1

I am constantly car shopping and always take to searching other areas of the country for better deals. A friend of mine wanted to buy an extended cab Silverado Classic last year. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think the best deal he found here in Dallas-Fort Worth was about $17,500, and he never did find a blue one for that price. He bought his truck in Houston, 260 miles from home, for $16,800 or so, and in the color he wanted. The dealer even qualified him for a $500 auto show rebate because the auto show happened to be in Houston that week, bringing his price down to $16,300. He saved $1200, spent $200 or so in airfare, had a $50 cab ride from Hobby, and spent $50 in gas getting home. For a day's worth of travel, he saved $900 altogether.

In my case, I have been looking for a 2005 Taurus recently, miles unimportant, priced below $6000. The only one around here turned out to be sold. But I have found many for this price in other states and when my tax refund comes in, I'll be ready to pounce on the lowest mileage gray or black one I can get.

parviz

The example you used about your friend's situation is what I am talking about as well and all for it. However, if this is reagarding buying a used car, I think it makes a big difference. First of all you are taking a chance, you will be losing time and money if you get there and the car is not what you had in mind or the seller was not real honest or clear about the condition of the car, etc. If there are problems later on it would be difficult and costly to resolve if you had to take a trip to where you bought it from and if you buy a used car from a dealer with any kind of warranty most likely you would have to take it to the same place for sevice (most cases), none of which holds true for buying brand new from a dealer since you can take it to any dealer for warranty work.

oldfarmer50

"...How does one find the fleet manager's contact information..."

The trouble with those "how to" articles is that the sales folks read them too. So when you try to do an end run around their sales tactics they have already adapted.

From what I have read here, if you call up and ask for the "Fleet Manager" you will likely be asked "how many cars do you need to buy for your fleet"? When you answer "only one" you will be passed on to a regular salesman who will try to get you to come into the dealership. So that strategy really doesn't get you anywhere.

mackabee

You hit it right on the head oldfarmer. That is exactly what I ask the prospective buyer of one fleet. It's very humorous. With a little bit of research anyone can get "fleet prices" LOL
mACK
by the way, I just added another Camry to my "fleet"

parviz

"....by the way, I just added another Camry to my "fleet"...

Awhile back you wre talking about getting an Accord for you wife. I guess that did not happen. Camry, again?!

mackabee

Yep, after having three a fourth one didn't hurt. Couldn't get away from "old faithful"
Mack

volvomax

I've read the article "Confessions of a Car Salesman" and found it interesting. I gathered that purchasing via researching the internet and speaking with the fleet manager would likely result in a price at or lower than invoice.

It really depends on what you are buying.
Some cars cannot be bought at or below invoice no matter who you deal with.
Other cars can be bought at or below invoice by just dealing w/ a salesperson.

The thing to do is decide what car you want and then research prices before you contact someone.

jeffyscott

The thing to do is decide what car you want and then research prices before you contact someone.

To me part of deciding which car would be based on test driving them, so this all kind of has to happen together. Of course, I'd get an idea of approximate price range before contacting a dealer about test driving, as that is one consideration in choosing a car. But I'd not talk to dealer about price until after I'd decided on which car or cars I might really want.

volvomax

To me part of deciding which car would be based on test driving them, so this all kind of has to happen together.

Which leaves out the Fleet Manager.
That leaves you with the salesperson,internet or regular.

kyfdx

Do you have a Fleet Manager? Does any Volvo dealer have a Fleet Manager?

How about Honda? Anyone seen fleets of Hondas out there?

Really, unless they sell cars to the government, or commercial trucks, most dealers don't have a Fleet Manager... They might have someone that would deal with a fleet purchase, on the long odds that it comes up... but a dedicated manager? Unlikely..

And... if they do.. chances are they aren't going to screw around with a low-baller like me who only wants one car...

The advice to ask for the Fleet Manager? Maybe, if you want a Crown Vic... :surprise:

jeffyscott

Fleet buyers don't test drive, eh? Oh well, I never believed the see the "fleet manager" and save stories anyway.

volvomax

Do you have a Fleet Manager? Does any Volvo dealer have a Fleet Manager?


Actually, that was my old title.
What I and others did/do is called "Fleetail"
Basically, it is the ancestor of the Internet Manager.
Someone for the public to deal with, in a position of authority, that isn't a mere salesperson.
Usually, they are amongst the best producers in a dealership.
So, your odds of stealing a car aren't great.

Real Fleet Managers do sell fleets of cars and trucks to local and national businesses, governments, etc.

mackabee

I told my GSM that after this deal coming up he might have to make me the "fleet manager".
I got a call from an old friend of mine who was a Captain in the Navy,. He now works for some big contractor and they are bidding in a big contract with some of the local hospitals. Seems like there's a shortage of nurses and they will leave in a minute if someone offers them a dollar extra an hour. To combat this some are giving their nurses perks. In this case they are giving them a new car to drive for three years. So he tells me about this plan and if they get the contract I'm looking to sell 50-200 Corollas in one year.! "Sign me up! If that happens I'll take a month of." I told him. So now I'm crossing my fingers and hope this goes through and he gets the contract and I get the sales.
Mackabee

jlawrence01

He now works for some big contractor and they are bidding in a big contract with some of the local hospitals. Seems like there's a shortage of nurses and they will leave in a minute if someone offers them a dollar extra an hour. To combat this some are giving their nurses perks

jlawrence01

He now works for some big contractor and they are bidding in a big contract with some of the local hospitals. Seems like there's a shortage of nurses and they will leave in a minute if someone offers them a dollar extra an hour. To combat this some are giving their nurses perks

One of my friends who is an RN Recruiter upon finding out that I had worked in the health care industry offered me $2500 for any RN that I could steer her way.

Yes, the nursing shortage is that desperate. All you have to do is to compare nursing care over the weekend vs. day shift during the week.

To be honest with you, leasing a Corolla for a recruited nurse is a relatively cheap benefit when you see what the costs of turnover in a medical facility is. And it is a vehicle that is attractive to the demographics.

(And that is why I beg all my nieces and nephews to head to nursing school ,,, and one or two have gone.)

joel0622

Sounds like a sweet deal Mack, but I got to say don't you see the irony in the US NAVY buying Japaneese cars.

mackabee

Yeah, although he's retired and a civilian now. I don't remember what company he told me he was working for the time before this. They will be US or Canadian made Corollas.
Mack

sad_chair

We are kind of new to the internet car-buying experience and would like to hear some opinions. We live in Indiana and had a very preliminary discussion with a salesman at Fitzgerald Auto Mall (fitzmall.com) in Md. Because of work commitments, we would have to plan our visit to pick up the car a few weeks in advance. We would prefer to pay cash, and he suggested the best way to hold the car would be to write a check with the purchase papers and he'll hold the car for us. The potential saving is substantial (more than $2K) but I am a bit apprehensive only because I feel we wouldn't have any recourse in case things didn't work out. I really can't find anything negative about this dealership but all I can see is potential for trouble. I'd like to hear any thoughts on this.

mikefm58

There are many here who have bought at the dealer you mentioned, all with a positive experience. Internet sales is pretty much what they specialize in.

jeffyscott

How much are they asking for?

Instead of a check, can you use a credit card for this deposit? That would give you more protection, I think.

mackabee

They are a good outfit. Their prices are very good and you can save a lot of money. What type of vehicle are you buying? If you're too far away from MD you could try your local dealer to see if they would match the price or come close to save you the inconvenience.
Mack
p.s. Credit card deposits are best since most of the time we don't run them and it's just a good faith deposit. Checks on the other hand are deposited and if you change your mind it takes a couple of weeks to get your money back.
:shades:

oldfarmer50

"...try your local dealer..."

My local dealer beat their price. Their "internet specials" are very competitive but if you want something else you pay considerably more.

mackabee

That's a good way to get started on this board! Where are your manners young man?
Mack :shades:

oldfarmer50

"...YOU [non-permissible content removed] make US the way we are..."

I get it, you're the closer who comes out and berates the customer to intimidate him into signing. With such old-school tactics are you required to wear plaid pants and gold chains?

Or do you just work for Troll Auto Group?

verdugo

I was too late to the party and boxton's post(s?) have already been deleted. Oh well. I'm sure there will be other trolls soon.

nmsg

amad1,
i agree with you 100% about the recession and not seller market. but it seems like the dealers are not willing to go down on their prices even though car sales have been the worst. all the dealers i've been working with via internet are trying to sell the cars over $1000+ even though there are dealer incentives which they are not offering. i say that these salespeople are greedy.

oldfarmer50

"...even though there are dealer incentives which they are not offering..."

What kind of incentives are we talking about? You can't be saying your dealers are not honoring manufacturer rebates that are published on the company's web sites. That would just be stupid.

You must be talking about manufacturer to dealer incentives which are sometimes unpublished or linked to volume of cars sold. The dealer has no obligation to pass these on to you although sometimes they do.

What cars are you looking at? Other than high-line cars I can't see any that would go for $1000 over invoice.

sad_chair

Well, we live SW of South Bend Ind., and have two finalists actually, a Hyundai Elantra and a Scion XB. Each has its good points and bad points which we won't debate here.

XB? No one is coming off MSRP, even closer to Chicago. Plus, a lot of places are adding things I think are dubious -- fabric protector (I could do it myself with a spray can from K mart) paint protector (I think it's called car wax) and nitrogen, which might have some merit, but just call me skeptical. The feel-good happy family mantra comes off a bit creepy at some places, but I can overlook that because we are not the target market. Fitzgerald price difference -- $800 off MSRP.

Elantra? I got close to TMV w/rebate at one dealer but they made it a point to tell me it expired as soon as we walked out the door. (Pressure much?) Everyone is touting the Consumer Reports rating as an excuse to keep prices higher, even to the point of almost denying there was a rebate at one dealership. Fitzgerald price difference -- $1500 off the TMV w/rebate applied.

As you can see, the discount is substantial. And actual savings would be even greater because of the absence of add-ons and doing most of the paperwork ourselves. We have figured delivery at about $200 ($125 for bus tickets out and $75 for gas back) and actually would kind of enjoy the entire experience (yes, we lead boring lives).

As I said originally, the contact with Fitzgerald was very preliminary -- one email and one quick phone call. Our big problem is the time lag; I have to plan time off in advance, so I would much prefer a courtesy down payment with a certified check on delivery -- just in case. But in these days of pervasive 419 scams and bogus money orders detected only after days or weeks, I can understand a business being skeptical.

jlawrence01

No one is going to discount a Scion XB, even in Chicago. It is a fixed price vehicle and you will pay the MSRP plus whatever the dealer wants.

As for the Hyundai Elantras and Sonatas, have you actually gotten a copy of the Chicago Tribune? When I was in the market last year, it was quite easily to find a lot of dealers who were competing on price. Considering that it is less than a 90 minute drive to the southern suburbs and 2.5 hour drive to the ultra-competitive NW suburbs, why not head in that direction.

exb0

Believe it or not, fitzmall.com in MD is selling XBs at invoice. WOW.

british_rover

And people wonder why a fixed price set up won't work... :sick: :surprise:

There is always someone who will break the agreement and sell the cars for a discount.

jlawrence01

If I was in the market for a new vehicle, I would be looking at the Toyota Matrix. Elgin (IL) Toyota has been advertising a new 2008 Matrix with automatic transmission for $13.5k. That is a hard deal to beat, IMO, especially when many dealers in Chicago are looking for $14.8k for a Yaris.

stickguy

Scion isn't Saturn with the fixed price for all. The deal with Scion is supposed to be 1 price for all, at that dealer. So as long as Fitzmall sells it for that price to everyone, no problem.

sad_chair

Advertising where? Seems a bit naive to believe they'd really honor that.

jlawrence01

Just the Chicago Tribune, no less. And my experience with that dealership and the Toyota dealerships surrounding it HONOR their ads. (That is how I bought my last vehicle.)

The Matrix is in the final year of model and is pretty much in the same position as the Corolla was last year - a vehicle that needs some incentives to move.

sad_chair

I checked several Tribunes (Sun Times too) in our corp library before I posted my reply and couldn't find it ... must be zoned advertising.

jlawrence01

It was in yesterday's Transportation section and the actual price was $13,995 which is still a heck of a deal.

http://www.elgintoyota.com/Specials-PrintAd.aspx

sad_chair

It's a demonstrator. And the $660 destination fee is not included. Add the $1000 rebate and that puts it right about at invoice. Would be interesting to know how many miles are on it.

mackabee

Yep, very greedy indeed considering that a $1000.00 over invoice results in a $100.00 mini or maybe $150.00 I can see why they are "greedy".
Walk in someone else's shoes before you criticize.
Mack :lemon:

jmaroun

I bought three cars on the internet via carsdirect.com.

- 2000 Camry V6 XLE
- 2004 Corolla <-- for my brother &
- 2006 330i <-- 3 year lease

I just found the hassle free transaction less stressful than the representatives at the stealer, I mean dealerships. I'm lookin to lease the 335i soon, but I had poor costomer service with carsdirect.com recently. They were basically rude to me so I'm not so sure if I'll use their company this time..we'll see. For me, genuine respect goes along way. I rank it right up there with the bottom line price. Sales reps should keep their relationships respectful, honest and provide a bottom line as closest to the lowest they can go. That's if they want to get my sale. Joseph San Diego blog: <a href="http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08" target="_blank">http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

mackabee

There's not an agreement to sell at a fixed price. The Scion covenant states that same identical vehicles must be sold at the same price to different customers. For example, a Scion dealer can discount an xB 500 bucks but he must do the same for other xB buyers during that month. Also if there is a discount it must be posted on their website and also at the dealership. So theoratically you can buy a Scion on a discount but not many dealerships discount them with the exception of mega dealers like Laurel Toyota in MD which is actually a Carmax new car dealership and a few others.
Mack :shades:

jeffyscott

He should have said the dealers (meaning the owners of dealerships) are greedy and the $100-150 commission would be further evidence of that.

oldfarmer50

"...$1000 over invoice results in a $100.00 mini..."

With so few cars selling for that much how do you guys make a living? You must get something off the back end for the mop & glo and such, right?

If you really don't make any more than that feel free to not send me the extra $178 I spent on my recent new car purchase ( I spent it because I felt sorry for the salesman not making more money on the deal).

mackabee

We get something of the back end if customers finance with us, plus the mop and glo. What makes a difference is selling used cars, that's where the money is. Also unit bonuses help too. Otherwise it sucks selling new cars nowadays, everyone wants stuff for free, they want to pay what we pay, etc. But, you learn to live with it and adjust or find another line of work.
:shades: