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Comments
As long as the dealer will politely answer questions before i come in I have no problem with coming in once we've established that we have something to actually talk about.
The attitude at that Subaru dealership which was "we have hundreds of cars; one of them must be what you are looking for" along with the 3 against 2 trick really turned me off. They likely put themselves out of consideration for any future purchases.
My thoughts exactly. I don't care if the picture isn't up yet on a new arrival; I care very much that when I ask "Does your car have X, Y, and Z on it?" that the dealer will actually answer the question truthfully.
Best if under the tab for "Options" they actually put in the name of the option packages the car has. That's why people are using the internet, to be more efficient in their search.
If we are talking about new cars, it seems kind of pointless for the dealership to be taking and posting pictures of each unit. A standard image or one in each color would be sufficient, I would assume these would be available from the manufacturer.
What mazdausa.com, had was sufficient for me. They just show these little pictures for each:
I also personally take photos of each vehicle - at least 20 per vehicle, new and used, and list all of the options.
It's really difficult to track whether our customers like or not like our site or listings because when asked where they saw the vehicle, most people reply "the internet". Well "the internet": is a big place and to most people it's all the same. They don't differentiate where they saw it because they probably don't remember, especially after browsing hundreds of ads on different sites.
For new cars I'm as detailed as possible. But for used cars if I leave out a piece of info such as mileage, I find more people end up calling. The more poeple call, the more a conversation can be opened up, including suggestions of other vehicles, trade in, etc. which results in a booked appointment. The more appointments booked, the more people show, the more deals we get.
If I list everything in the ad including mileage, then we'll get less phone calls because a customer has no reason to call since they have all the info they need already.
They usually put the listing with all info aside, and call those that caoght their eyes that are missing a piece of information like mileage.
So although I try to have every bit of info listed, on sites like Craigslist I'll usually have basic info about the car in order to generate more phone calls.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
For myself, I'm not going to call someone unless I'm quite sure they have what I want, but then again, I'm not shopping for used cars, so maybe that's a different market.
So by not listing high miles we might lose out on those who would skip the ad anyways, but we gain those that are curious and do call.
In car sales it's all about person to person interaction and finding out what a customer wants. Many times a phone call will open up a conversation that will lead to other vehicle possibilities which will lead to appointments and sales.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I suppose it is still more profitable to do business that way. But, calling and having a phone conversation with a salesperson is probably not what a lot of people want to do. Most people probably prefer the important pieces of information in an ad... price, miles and condition. And will call for the details if interested, i.e color/options/ #of owners etc.
Yeah the shoppers who know the car buying process in and out and who frequent these boards might skip an ad with no mileage, but those shoppers are truly a minority. More is gained than lost for a dealership with this kind of advertising.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
True, plus they are dumb enough to think that maybe you did not list the miles, even though they are low.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
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2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I hear you on that one for sure. My order of communication preference (for anything with strangers) is: E-mail, E-mail and E-mail. I'm not a fast thinker and enjoy the chance to think and compose my thoughts carefully, including car buying questions. Also, having the answers (and quotes) in writing is a big plus. I suppose salesman tend to be cut from a different cloth and enjoy or need the more personal touch. As one noted, it's more profitable that way. Different strokes for different folks.
We are on a car buying mission and know exactly what we want: Model, color, near new or new, so the internet is perfect for us for comparison purposes. We just want a reliable bottom line price before we visit and, if the test drive works out, here's the check and we'll be on our way. For the most part our search on line and bidding through E-mail has been a pretty good experience. I put out a price and reasoning as to why I choose the price vs. their listed price. We haven't been able to cut a deal yet but are in no hurry. That will hopefully allow us to get the best value possible.
Yes, me too and for the same reasons you gave. This is by far my preference for communicating with everyone, stranger or not. I only use the phone when there is a need for immediate communication or confirmation that the message got to the recipient. I am very phone-phobic, I don't even have a cell phone of my own.
http://wiki.hypertwins.org/index.php/Phone-phobia
In addition to your reasons, email allows each of us to engage in the "discussion" when and where we want to. I don't have to wonder if it is too early, too late, be interrupted, etc.
After all no point negotiating on something you might not even like or something that might not be comfortable for you. It's like negotiating on a house that you never stepped foot in.
I like the use of email too as it's a bit more relaxed than a phone conversation although sometimes it may take 5 days and 10 emails to ask something that could have been discussed in a 10 minute conversation. But like you said, different strokes for different folks. Whatever the customer's comfortable with, most of us salespeople can adapt to.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I didn't speak to anyone on the phone either. The most important thing I want to know, when I'm doing on-line research, is to verify exactly what options are on the cars the dealer has in stock, and the exterior/interior colors.
It's a plus if they give an "internet price" on-line, but I don't really expect to negotiate price until I've driven the car and liked it. I do a lot of research before going to the dealer to know what a fair price is, but there's no point in getting into that by e-mail until I can verify that I like both the car and the dealership.
I don't know if it's me or what but: I have about 8 different leads on cars. Less than half of the dealers I've contacted are very timely at getting back to me if at all and this is by e-mail AND phone (yes, broke down and called a few). Fitzmall was great...had 3 e-mails back and forth (on a Saturday) within 10 minutes to answer all my questions and give me the bottom line price. If they were only closer.
Too many are like "I'll have so-and-so get right back with you" but nothing. They weren't all price questions either. I've got the money and am ready to buy yesterday. I know I'm not the only customer and I suppose these folks get plenty of time-wasters that lead nowhere but they must know that the more leads they get and keep happy, the more ultimate sales will result. Even the lack of knowledge is somewhat troubling. Granted, I'm focused on one model and they are selling many but you'd think there would be an information sheet quite handy to answer a simple question like "What color is the interior"?
The skeptic in me (I'm an auditor by trade) says more than a few simply want me in person to work me into THEIR price, not mine. I suppose if their research and experience shows that to be profitable, I can't argue with it but I doubt it's going to get me to their lot.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I'd also like to negotiate price online. I'm a single female and have had terrible experiences at car dealers before. The last time I bought a car I gave up doing it by myself and dragged a male friend along for the day, which is ridiculous.
But I want to test drive the cars I'm interested in. How do I do that and still negotiate online? Is it possible to negotiate an out-the-door price via email BEFORE I test drive without making a commitment to buy? Should I test drive similar cars at a different dealer and then negotiate? That's difficult since some of the options I want are hard to find, plus if negotiations go sour I might want to change dealers later.
What's the best way to go about this?
Many dealers have a salesperson devoted specifically to internet sales so you may want to keep that in mind if you should visit the store. You may want to contact that person first so that it doesn't get messy with a sales person on the floor.
I wouldn't worry about starting the process online, then going in to test drive, and then leaving to negotiate online. Many sales people are going to do whatever they can to get you to come to the dealership anyway. Based on what others have said, it isn't always easy to get a salesperson to agree to a price online, especially if they have no relationship with you.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
As tallman pointed out it's your money and your decision. You don't owe the salesman anything. He plays this game every day and you don't so be careful.
The most important thing to me is to be sure of what this vehicle is worth to you and hold to that. You can do that by shopping around on line (autotrader, cars.com, dealer sites, etc) and checking the Edmunds TMV (none of these sources is foolproof but you'll get a good idea of the value).
Best of luck. Keep us posted.
Go drive all three (or how many you're interested in buying. When you get to the dealership tell them that you're a serious buyer that is ready to buy. Tell them you have your financing already arranged (or if you're paying cash, tell them that). Tell them that you are also looking at a couple of other cars. Tell your salesperson, "If you do a good job today...who know's...I might buy today."
You'll have your salespersons complete attention which is what you want (you don't want an indifferent salesperson do you? I didn't think so).
When you get done with the demo and they ask you to buy, tell them that "You need to think about it." 99.9% of salespeople don't know how to deal with that objection.
Use that same process with the other cars that you want. After you decide on the vehicle you want, you can negotiate the car deal via email. When you negotiate the deal make sure you negotiate a "Drive out" deal meaning that all the taxes and fees are included in the drive out price. Also tell them to break down all the fees, taxes and the selling price.
When you communicate to them that you are a serious buyer, they'll play ball with you.
Many experts recommend avoiding monthly payments as a goal. That is incorrrect. The monthly payment is what most of us pay so it has to be the goal. The key is to understand the items comprising the monthly payment such as sales price, trade-in, taxes and fees, term length, finance rate and not let the salesperson deviate from those parameters.
A savy buyer will research the price of the vehicle, the trade-in value, available interest rates and use an on-line calculator to compute an expected monthly payment. Armed with that information any buyer can achieve a good overall deal.
On the last vehicle I purchased I computed a monthly payment of about $490 for 60 months would be a good overall deal. I was able to negotiate my numbers (price, trade, finance, etc.) and added tax, tags and the infuriating doc fee (in my case only $100) and used those to compute the $490. In the finance office, the F&I guy came with a monthly payment of about $500. For 60 months that was a $600 difference, so obviously something was amiss. After I confronted the guy, he painfully admitted he had added some silly insurance type items which he said he assumed I would want as everyone does! Very unethical and I wonder how many times this guy pulled this on unsuspecting buyers. My simple understanding of the monthly payment clearly stopped this guy in his tracks. Needless to say, I mentioned this on the customer satisfaction survey I got from the manufacturer.
The most important thing is good research. Last month my son was buying a new vehicle. He visited a dealer or two and concluded a good selling price for the new vehicle was $23,500, the value of his trade was about $10,000, and the manufacturer's financing was .9%.
Having bought vehicles for too many decades, I did my own research and determined a very good selling price for his area was actually $22,000, the trade value was about $11,000 to $12,000. Armed with this info, my son revisited the dealers and ultimately bought the vehicle for about $22,000 and got $11,500 for his trade. In this case, my limited knowledge saved my son about $3,000.
As with everything knowledge is key!
I see no problem negotiating a price first and saying it's dependent on a "successful test drive and inspection of the vehicle". I've done that with new cars before, and did end up not buying because the seats weren't quite comfortable.
My first choice in a new car turned out to be uncomfortable so it was off of my list. Narrowed my list to 3 cars. That is when the games began. Emailed 21 dealers within 300 miles. Stated what model I wanted, colors, stated what options I was and was not interested in and asked what they had and prices. Of the 21 dealers that had "internet" sales on their website, 8 actually responded with vehicles and internet prices. The rest were "come on down and we will make you a great deal" so I wrote them off. Of the 8 who responded 2 were actually prices that were below MSRP. I responded back to all 8 that it was a long drive to their dealerships and could I get a out the door price on the vehicle and if it was within the ball park I would come look at them. Only 1 responded with a out the door price and it was MSRP plus TTL.
So I took another way, I went to Sams Club auto buying and requested a quote, 4 dealers responded that they would sell for Invoice plus X dollars. I thought, now I am getting somewhere. I requested a price on the 4 vehicles I was interested in out the door. None of the dealers responded at all.
Yesterday I had business 200 miles from home and went into a dealership that sold the number one choice on my list. Tried to do a end run around salesman to look at car I was interested in, didn't work. Got to the car, right color, right interior, $700 worth of options I did not need but oh well. Looked at the window sticker MSRP, and then off to the side another sticker "Final Invoice". Took a close look, their "invoce" was MSRP + $2347 "Dealer markup".
Out of curiosity I asked what out the door was, after much talk they could let me have it out the door for a tad above $1000 over MSRP.
The car business must be booming to treat customers the same old way.
That's where you'll get feedback from car_man.
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You could always offer to go pick it up yourself, but that would probably mean you couldn't do so until after all of the purchasing paperwork & such had been completed, meaning you can't see it in-person before you make the final deal. $400 doesn't sound horrible considering the gas & salary costs for the dealership.
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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If it is a Chevy, Honda, Toyota, probably not. If it is a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, etc, it might be.
Guess with whom they did a dealer swap? They had to trade a Jetta to get it from them, but it was still $2,200 cheaper over me buying it directly. I know, because I got a quote from that dealer on that van before going out of town.
Weird.
Rule 1: always shop for cars BEFORE you need one. ie: know exactly which car model (or pair of models) you will buy if your car dies today. Buying a car when you are desperate makes you just plain desperate and vulnerable.
Rule 2: test drive the car you think you want twice. Drive twice; buy once... no remorse
Rule 3: buy through your credit union, on line service, or on line manager. Don't waste your time with a salesperson. They know NOTHING about the cars they sell.
Rule 4: unless the manufacturer is offering unbelievable financing, have your bank/credit union pre approve your finances before you ever walk in to a dealership
Remember, other than the ability to test drive a car, dealerships should have gone the way of coin shops, malls, and large retail stores: the internet has all your research tools for shopping and buying. Let's make the "stealerships" go the way of the dodo.
They should be called "screw number 2 managers" and "excessive profits"
The earlier poster wanted dealers to go the way of the dodo............. I agree.
I go out of my way to find an honest mechanic to work on my vehicles. The mass automotive specialist like firestone and goodyear "mechanical services" are almost as bad trying to sell you services like transmision flushes for $200 or a list of other "service" options.
These guys and the Stealerships even then ask you to sign for the declined options Duh?
When are we going to get service centres with honest mechanics who will tell you the truth, charge a reasonable fee for the service provided and not try to push things down your throat or scare you into buying what you dont need .
I would have thought that there must be someone out there who is focused on this and would want to do this for repeat business ? maybe I should start a franchise like this and call it HonestAutoservices.com with a logo like "we sell you what you need not what we need to sell "