Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying

madmanmoo

I'll fault them for that. Getting price quotes on all the vehicles that you are considering is silly AND a waste of everyone's time.

To put this in the context of buying a house, do you ask each seller what their best price is before you even look at it? Do you even ask for a best price after you've decided on a house? No, you make an offer. Car sales is a little different because many dealerships will give you an offer, but c'mon....

You've seen the list prices on the vehicle and you can only figure that they will get better than the list price.... so, you know the general idea of pricing and if it fits in your budget. Drive the vehicles you are interested in purchasing. Pick the one you like best and then, if you like, get quotes from a couple of dealerships that sell that vehicle OR just make an offer.

Don't waste everyone's time by putting the cart before the horse. Thank you.

lrguy44

Best price is NOT a simple inquiry. It means a specific vehicle in a specific color with specific options. It also means a commitment to buy. I hate the old if I could would you, but to get the best price should mean you are ready to pull the trigger.
Find what you can afford and like first, then shop price and be ready to buy.

jwilliams2

Moo, Could not have said it better myself.

tidester

Getting price quotes on all the vehicles that you are considering is silly ...

Only if you are construing that as a commitment. If I ask you what the price is, I'm not looking for anything binding. I just want to know whether it's in the affordability ballpark. If you think it's binding then that's your problem. I'd likely walk if you're unwilling to provide basic and straightforward information to me. :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

lrguy44

There is a difference between the price and the best price. If I am asked the price, I will respond with the list price, or if advertised, the advertised price. The best price is given to those who are ready to make a commitment.

jwilliams2

I'd likely walk if you're unwilling to provide basic and straightforward information to me.

Well, you would have to actually be there before you can walk.......and if you are there, you shouldn't have any problem getting a price.

tidester

Well, you would have to actually be there before you can walk...

Touché!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

kdshapiro

I'll fault them for that. Getting price quotes on all the vehicles that you are considering is silly AND a waste of everyone's time

I agree, getting a price quote is the step before purchase. I want to know the range of prices for a car as I'm doing my car shopping. When I'm going for the last penny I'll get a price quote.

kyfdx

I really don't worry a lot about what salespeople think of my method of buying a car... It's a lot bigger deal to me, than it is to them..

The only goal I have that takes the salesperson into account: Making them think I can complete a deal with no issues, if we come to an agreement. And, that's only because I think that helps me get the best price.

I treat everyone with respect, but I don't worry about their time, pay plan, or how they like to do things... That is not my problem.

There are plenty of dealers who will do it my way.. The ones that insist that I follow their system? They can sell their cars to someone else.

I think the successful salespeople cater to the customer, not try to put them in a box, or make them jump through their hoops. I think there are a lot of salespeople that consider themselves successful, that have no idea how many sales that they miss. :surprise:

newcarbuyer12

So say you narrow down you choice to 1 or 2 cars through the test drive. Then you contact the dealership through email/Edmunds/etc. to negotiate via internet. Doesn't the sales person who helped you with the test drive miss out on the commission. Do dealerships have certain sales people who just do internet transactions? Is it important for the buyer to mention that they had previously been assisted by someone?

boomchek

If you were happy with the salesperson who showed you the vehicle and gave you a test drive, then you should call them, or email them and give them a chance to earn your business.

I get internet inquiries all the time, but if the customer is someone who was at our dealership before and dealt with another salesperon, I'll pass the inquiry on to that salesperson and let them finish up the transaction.

boomchek

The problem with internet inquiries is that we have no way of judging what kind of customer you are, how serious you are, and what your intetions are when you send in that price request.

Therefore we'll just follow the rule that gets us a majority of sales. In my case it would be to get the customer to come in.

If we wander off from that method and use a different response for every inquiry hoping that somehow we'll randomly match the right response to a certain type of customer, then we'll have no way of measuring whether we're succesful or not because we'd be all over the map with our responses.

If I give out 100 best prices and only get 5 customers in who buy, but send out 100 responses telling them to come on in, and get 50 appointments, that result in 25 shows, and 10 deals, then that's the method I'll be using.

If I somehow knew that out of the 50 remaining inquiries, 25 would do a deal based on price alone without shopping me, and the other 25 wanted to hear that I'll beat whatever price quote they get, then that's what I would say. But I have no way of knowing that and therefore I'll be using my method that works the best for me.

The bottom line is every dealer will try to hold out for as much gross as possible, and prefers not to shoot numbers into cyberspace. Some just do it because it works for them better than others, or they just don't know or haven't tried any other method opf bringing people into the showroom.

boomchek

That's what I would do too. i'd go over the price range, and possible rebates or rates, and ask the customer to do the test drives they need to do.

For example, I had an acquaintance looking for a vehicle. They looked at my products, I told them the price ranges, they drove it and told me they'll decide in about a month after they check out the competition.

They did, and realized that my vehicle is about $10k less on average, and bought mine. I couldn't give them a best price the first time they were in because the deals change from month to month so it would have been pointless anyways.

jipster

False, unethical, misleading advertising to promise a "free" quote and then not give one. If you give a price, any price... one dollar under MSRP, I would be fine with that. But, to get the "come on in and let's talk" wouldn't sit well with me. I wouldn't discount a dealership on that alone, but it would put them at the bottom of my list.

golic

Based on my experience internet quotes are best used when you know exactly what you want (color, model, options, etc...) Dear Mr. Salesman, I am ready to buy this car today - lets not play the 3 hour dance, give me (this price or)a great price and I will do the deal today.

If you are not ready to buy now, the salesman/dealership is not ready to give you the best price. The lone exception is the internet salesman who sees that you live 75 miles away and will low ball you a quote, just to reek havoc for you.

jeffyscott

If I ask you what the price is, I'm not looking for anything binding. I just want to know whether it's in the affordability ballpark.

Surely you can figure that out without contacting a dealership? I have heard that there are sites on the internet that publish invoice prices and most rebate information :P .

For the most part, I do the ballpark price research myself, then test drives (which I generally arrange via an on-line contact, rather than just walking in).

mikefm58

The lone exception is the internet salesman who sees that you live 75 miles away and will low ball you a quote, just to reek havoc for you.

I'm sure there are some who would do that, but I did have a good experience with a Honda dealer that was about 60 miles from me when I bought a 2005 Civic. We agreed on a price over email and sold it for that with no games.

tidester

Surely you can figure that out without contacting a dealership?

Of course, but as I pointed out earlier, there are some people who do not avail themselves of those resources.

I have heard that there are sites on the internet that publish invoice prices and most rebate information.

Indeed there are and those few who don't make use of that site <shameless plug> should hurry on over and take advantage of the information. Then the problem of dealing with the salesperson for data would just go away. :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

boomchek

misleading advertising to promise a "free" quote and then not give one

So you'll get a quote of MSRP minus rebates from me. I should have clarified. In my response I do probvide the following:

The stock number the customer inquired about if it is or isn't available. If it isn't available, I'll let them know we have a few similar models.

What the price is of that vehicle, and current specials on it.

What the advantages are by dealing with the Internet Dept.

If the customer wants anything more, as in negotiating to purchase TODAY, then we'll do things in person, opver the phone, or I'll get the customer to present me an offer.

Once again I don't want to shoot numbers to Mr. anonymous_shopper@hotmail.com hoping that they'll match a mystery target price they have in mind, or hoping that they won't use those numbers to shop elsewhere.

lrguy44

Like I said before, I will always include list or advertised price. That is a quote. Best price (if different) will come later. If I get a car discription with color, options, etc. and the I am ready to buy now, I will provide "best price".

mikefm58

The stock number the customer inquired about if it is or isn't available. If it isn't available, I'll let them know we have a few similar models.

There's a local Nissan dealer here that will tell the customer ANYTHING they want to hear to get them to come to the dealer.

Customer: I'm looking for a new Nissan Altima in the xxx trim, 6 cyl automatic sedan, in the royal blue color. Do you have those in stock?

Dealer: Yes, we have several that match that identically. When can you come in to take a test drive.

Customer: Is 10 AM this Saturday OK?

Dealer: Sounds great, see then.

10 AM Saturday at the dealership.

Dealer: Now what was it you were seeking? Oh yes, I have it here. We can get one like what you are seeking but we'll have to do a dealer trade.

Customer: Grrrrrr, Bye Bye.

jipster

Yeah, I don't blame you guys for not wanting to "shoot numbers". Just a "goodwill gesture" that the dealership is true to their word in providing a quote would satisfy me, at least initially.

My last vehicular purchase, almost 5 years ago, initially began on the internet. I provided every piece of information imaginable, except the VIN #. I didn't get anything but, "we have 8 of those in stock, come on down and we'll get you a good price". :sick:

I'm curious to how you guys would respond to an email request like this, "Dear internet salesperson, I was at your dealership 2 hours ago and have decided on the Jipmobile BLT. I had test driven it previously. The one on your lot with the VIN # 84948m4094k4998 is the one I want to buy... and I'm looking to buy right this second if we can agree on price."

Would you think this a serious/buy today buyer? What would you respond with written wise and quote wise... still try to get them to come into the dealership? Would you negotiate your best price, something in the middle, or still insist they come in?

lrguy44

I think there is a slightly better than 15% chance (based on years of experience) that you are a serious buyer. I would respond in a couple of different ways, depending on if my advertised price was drop dead or not. if drop dead, I would let you know that and ask if there was a trade. If not, I would respond with a list/advertised price, ask what price you had in mind and ask if there is a trade. For us to agree on agree on a price, the trade issue must be resolved, and for the best deal I need to see the trade. The idea is to find out
A. Are you serious
B Do you have a fair price in mind (most do not)
C Is there a trade
D To build a dialogue.

If you respond that there is no trade and you want "best price" I will quote best price.

lrguy44

Alos, if a lease quote is requested, I need to find out miles per year. if it is a payment quote, I will usually quote Tier 2 saying it may get better WAC. (With approved credit).

boomchek

I would find out who you dealt with and would let that salesperson deal with you directly. I would not be getting involved because you were not my customer to begin with.

madmanmoo

First I would check to see if you had worked with anyone so that the appropriate salesperson could work with you.

Second, I would make sure that you had driven a vehicle that is very similar if not identical to the car that you were interested in purchasing.

I would try to talk with you on the phone since I would have quite a few questions to ask. If that wouldn't work and you only wanted to talk by e-mail... Here is what I would send.... (If there is no advertised specials on the vehicle, this is what I would send.)

Hi Eager Buyer,

I will be happy to help with the purchase of your next JipMobile. In order to make sure that you are provided with the most accurate information, please answer a couple of questions for me.

How are you planning on paying for the vehicle? (Cash, lease, finance)
Do you have a trade?

You mentioned that you were interested in buying immediately If all the numbers and figures were agreeable, would you be able to take delivery this afternoon?

Lastly, our vehicle lists for $23,567. Please let me know a justifiable offer on our vehicle and I will be happy to take that to my manager and start negotiating on your behalf.

I look forward to hearing from you!

MadManMoo

exb0

I had that happen to me once. I counter that by asking how many miles are on the car. If the salesman doesn&#146;t come back with exact number within an hour or two, I don&#146;t schedule an appointment with them.

I found that most salesmen will deflect a question, or ignore your question, but few will tell you a blatant lie.

I would never go to a store anymore without all the pricing in hand. That includes the car, accessories, fees and taxes.

lrguy44

If the salesman doesn&#146;t come back with exact number within an hour or two,

So here we are sitting and waiting on your e-mail. The standard for our manufacturer is to answer a new e-mail inquiry within 4 hours. If the internet guy or the salesman who gets the e-mail is wrapped up in a deal or with a customer and may not see you e-mail in an hour or two. Unrealistic response time. We do have priorities and the customer before you is #1.

lrguy44

Besides, if you saw the car on the web, the miles will be listed

exb0

I ask for mileage right after I agree to the price. Usually last few emails are traded within a half an hour or so, or I call them and ask for mileage. I never had a problem getting a response within that time frame, if they have the car in stock. Usually they just send a lot boy to check.

If they don&#146;t have the car in stock, the reply is usually something like &#147;oh, I thought you were looking for a different color&#148;, or &#147;I&#146;ll let you know as soon as my lot boy moves some cars around, because we can&#146;t get to this car.&#148;

lrguy44

Of course after a few e-mails you will usually be answered quicker. The salesman is working a real deal.

jipster

First I would check to see if you had worked with anyone so that the appropriate salesperson could work with you.

I should have mentioned, there were no other salespeople involved. I walked the dealership lot before it opened. There is no trade-in, it's a cash deal. Already test drove exact same model... even the colors are identical.

You did provide a quote (list price), but I ask for your best price. Don't have time to talk on the phone as I am a mute. Leaving the states the next morning to track down Bin Laden, need a car for my wife. Do you give your best price? I'm guessing 9 times out of 10 I'll get the best price by coming into the dealership???

I personally don't have a problem talking on the phone to salesmen, or going into the dealership... I actually enjoy it. If I can get things started via email and get things narrowed down before going into the dealership, that would be great. I would have a pretty good idea what a "good deal" was, so really not that interested in going around having one dealership beat anothers bid.

deltheking

Jipster,if u are going to track bin laden down and get him then u dont need to negotiate at all .Bin Laden must have lots of wads of cash in bags stuffed in his caves-- U can just remove some wads and give it to the salesman for an all cash deal.
U can come to the dealership on Laden`s donkey with bags of cash on other donkeys,,but leave in the most exotic luxury car~~~~ :P

venture

I test drove a Jipmobile at a dealer near me in October where I have purchased many cars before. After the test drive they gave me a price of MSRP on the new car and offered less than KBB good condition for my trade. There's loyalty for you.

I went home and looked at a dealers web site 50 miles from me. They had the exact car I was looking for sitting on their lot.

I emailed them and told them what I was looking for and what my trade was. They responded that they would sell me the car for $100 over invoice and offered KBB good condition for my trade - on the condition that it was in the condition I said it was. (Whew - That's a lot of conditions).

I questioned them on the $100 over invoice and they replied that it wasn't worth their time to have me shop all over the area and then settle on $100 over invoice somewhere. They just offer that price up front.

I called the internet salesperson and said I was driving up the next day, had my financing in order, and would be driving the new car home.

When I arrived at the dealership the next day, all of the papers were in the salespersons office, I signed the papers and went on my way.

It was a pain free experience and I got the car for less than I was actually prepared to pay. It didn't seem to me that they made enough money but, of course, I don't know if there were any manufacturer to dealer incentives or unit bonuses involved.

jungle_cat

Thanks for all the responses. Everyone has made some good points and it is true, as someone said, that going to a dealer and test driving a car--I may learn something from a professional salesman. Though I must admit I am leary of salesman because it is his job to sell. I just feel that a salesman is there to make a sale not necessarily to be an advocate for me.

Madmanoo you said "getting price quotes on all the vehicles is silly". I do not necessarily agree. If my wife test drives a car and picks one she likes I would then send emails and get quotes for that model. There is a chance that if I sent an email for the four models and someone came back with a particularly good quote for that model it could influence my decision.

That being said I would probably be more likely to settle on a model first and then send out the inquiries.

JC

madmanmoo

If my wife test drives a car and picks one she likes I would then send emails and get quotes for that model. There is a chance that if I sent an email for the four models and someone came back with a particularly good quote for that model it could influence my decision.

I see no reason to get price quotes on vehicles that your wife would not be interested in purchasing. If you are cross shopping similar vehicles, then they will all be in the same neighborhood.

Scenario 1

"Hon, you like the new Honda?"
"No, it's ugly."
"Awesome, I'll go e-mail 4 different dealers to get their best quotes."
"Why?"
"I dunno, feels like the thing to do."

Scenario 2

"Hon, you like the Toyota?"
"Yes, I really like their designs."
"What about the Nissan?"
"Yes, I really like the way it drives."
"So, any one that you like better?"
"No, I like both of them."
"Ok, I will get price quotes on both and see where we get the better deal."

Now that makes sense. The first scenario makes no sense.

jipster

I emailed them and told them what I was looking for and what my trade was. They responded that they would sell me the car for $100 over invoice

See, miracles happen every day. A great price via e-mail and an easy transaction. Glad to see it worked out for you. Hard to believe the dealership would operate like that all the time. As you wrote, more likely unit bonuses involved.

By the way, I think you would have been better off buying the Jipmobile at MSRP.

venture

By the way, I think you would have been better off buying the Jipmobile at MSRP.

I would have paid anything to get it. :surprise:

Kirstie_H

Don't fall for it - his doc fees are outrageous!

jipster

Don't fall for it - his doc fees are outrageous!

True. But, the popcorn is fresh and the kool-aid extra sweet... so it evens out. :P

jungle_cat

Hi All:

Well I went ahead and bought the above-mentioned SUV. My buying experience did not quite go as anticipated. I bought it at few hundred below invoice but I think I could have done better.

First of all my wife was interested in the Pilot, Highlander and some SUV from Mazda, Infiniti, Lexus and Audi. She did not like the Audi, Mazada or Infiniti at all. For different reasons we eliminated the Lexus so that left the Highlander. My wife test drove the Highlander and was surprised how easy it was to drive; and then we went and drove the Pilot. It was not as smooth as the Highlander; but she liked the features and amenities that came with the Pilot.

I had intended on going with my wife as she wanted to test drive the cars and then I would leave and internet shop. One thing we found via internet and some dealers we visited was the Touring model especially with the NAV and RES is not widely available. A few dealers had no Pilots or a very limited selection.

I had an idea of what I wanted to pay and they came back a little below list and I said not good enough. Well I got up to leave and grrr..my wife stayed seated. I really wanted to leave to internet shop. When the saleman left to get get a new price I was like let's go...and look around. I learned not to take my wife I should have sent her by herself. She is kind of impatient and once she makes up her mind she wants it. After a lot of back and forth we settled on a little below invoice....but then they did not have the color we wanted.

Again I wanted to walk and look around; but in the end the dealer said they would get one at that price.

The internet helped a lot to assist me on knowing a general market price. I wish I could have shopped more that way but..oh well. I think I could have done better if I was at the dealer by myself as I was in no hurry to buy one--which I told the dealer unless it is at the right price.

Regards,

JC

boomchek

Congrats on your purchase. Do not dwell too much whether you could have squeezed few hundred bucks more off the price. As long as you're happy with the vehicle, and what you paid, enjoy it and don't look back!

deltheking

As Boomchek said,,dont fret over a few hundred bucks especially on a 30k vehicle--And the Pilot is a very very good SUV...So enjoy the vehicle and its features.
I would say,,a Honda for below invoice at the color u wanted--I think you did really well.Not bad..
Enjoy your Pilot....

g_billings

This is my first post here. Forgive me if it's been answered before. I made an attempt at searching for the topic but came up empty.

I'm a big fan of internet research and shopping, and I used Edmunds a great deal to help with the purchase of my wife's '01 Passat and my '04 4Runner. We've started looking at new cars for her and I'm starting the process again.

Here's the dilemma I'm running into. After we've picked some vehicles we're interested in, we have to go test drive them to see which onse we like. To do that we've just headed over to the dealership and grabbed a salesperson.

So once we've decided which vehicle we want, where do we begin with the negotiating process? I'd love to try and bypass the typical haggling and contact the internet or fleet manager, but it doesn't seem fair to skip over the saleperson that took their time to test drive the vehicle with me.

Do I start by contacting them and asking for their price? Or should I start with Edmunds TMV and tell them what I'm willing to pay? I plan on getting prices from other dealers that I haven't visited in person, so should I just wait for quotes from them so I have something to show the dealers here? Is there some other way to go about getting test drives if you plan on doing internet shopping?

Any insight would be appreciated.

tidester

There are many approaches you could take such as telling the salesperson this is the car I want and this is what I am willing to pay. Make it a reasonable offer and ask whether they can make it happen. If the answer is "Yes" then you're in business. Otherwise, you have two choices: (a) walk or (b) get a counteroffer and go from there. I'm sure others will offer other strategies but, in any case, keep your eye on the "out the door price" and good luck!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

boomchek

You narrowed down your choice. You know what make and model and trim level you want.

You went to drive the vehicle, and a salesperson helped you out. Now you decided you do like this vehicle but want to make sure you will get the best price.

If you're not sure what the best price is, get quotes from other dealers to see what range they're in. After you get quotes go back to the salesperson (if you were ahppy with his or her service) that helped you out in during the test drive and give him a chance to match or beat the deal. If he does the buy the car from him.

If you do know waht target price is achievable and what you want to pay, save yourself time and hassle, and go back to the test drive salesperson and make an offer with him to buy the car.

If you by pass the salesperson and go to fleet or internet manager then chances are they'll have to split the deal with that salesperson anyways.

Fleet will not always deal with you unless you're buying a few cars or have credit card in hand and ready to put a deposit on the car right away. They usually don't have time to be sending out random quotes to everyone that emails them. That's what floor salespeople and internet managers do.

Good luck.

jeffyscott

Is there some other way to go about getting test drives if you plan on doing internet shopping?

I usually make my first contact online and set up a test drive that way.

g_billings

Everything turned out fine. After the night of our second test drive, I sat down and start firing off quote requests to other dealers in the state. That was on Saturday night, and by maybe 10a the next morning, I already had 3 replies. The first was $900 over invoice, and they went down from there. The last offer was about $500 under. Knowing that the worst that could happen is that my dealer would shoot me down and I'd have to drive an hour away to get our car, I called him back and we started talking.

We ended up at $500 over which I felt was fair. I could have saved money, but lost an option on our local car that my wife wanted. We got to keep our sale local and with the salesman that had been assisting us.

We signed all the papers yesterday and after reading through the 'Confessions of an F&I Guy' earlier, I was able to turn down the thousands of dollars of windshield treatments, glass etching registration, fabric protection and death and disability insurance with little effort.

Thanks for the help, Edmunds!

verdugo

Congrats. Glad to hear about sales stories that have a happy ending.

We ended up at $500 over which I felt was fair.

Seems fair. They made some money, but they didn't club you like a baby seal. And you kept the purchase local.

Don't forget to give excellent scores to your salesman in the survey.

boomchek

Congrats. Most times car buying and getting a fair price is much easier and simpler than it seems. I'm sure you're happy and so is the saleman.

Thanks for sharing your story here.