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Comments
Features such as:
* voice direction
* places of interest
* Auto-Reroute if you stray from the location
But the biggest plus is the larger screen, IMHO.
I sure hope it's better than they one they have on the Accord - I heard you can even give it certain commands!
* voice direction
* places of interest
* Auto-Reroute if you stray from the location"
All available in handheld units which have the advantage of portability and cheaper database updates.
mliong: "But the biggest plus is the larger screen, IMHO."
Built-in units are also faster and more convenient. The integrated controls are easy to reach and there are no cables (power & remote antenna) to fuss with as when using handheld units. Ideally we would have both, one for in-car use and one for elsewhere!
IMHO, the RX330 or XC90 seem to offer better VFM if Touareg remains at MSRP.
It's an excellent SUV but then why am I a bit disappointed?
Current lease rates and factors are very favorable and are available on the net...
I would shop elsewhere...
Having just come back from Phoenix and driving the Touareg for
several days and with the Volvo and Range Rover and RX330, as well
as Murano, 470, I am curious as to why you find better value in the two you mentioned...I certainly didn't find that to be the case...
V6 $31,628
V8 $36,868
www.scottvw.com has more Touareg invoice pricing.
Are we sure the NAV and sound system II come with a 6 disk changer? It might not be a bad deal especially at 2% over invoice
My disappointment with Touareg, to some extend, is due to price. I think that the RX330/XC90 seem to offer better luxury, comfort and utility over a Touareg if they cost the same. Touareg offers better value if it is 5k cheaper. My usage is mostly urban commute and weekend/evening trips and the V6 seem to have adequate power. I'll be using the rear seat a lot - which is not all that comfortable in Touareg - another reasong why I'm thinking RX330. My offroad usage is limited and excludes serous offroading.
If I were buying a car only for driver or driver+front passenger then my choice would be Touareg - as long as price is close to invoice rather then the MSRP.
2% over invoice seems like a good deal. Can you help me get one at this price ?!!
If you can really get the Touareg for 2% over invoice, JUMP on it. Most dealers out here are charging MSRP, with some unscrupulous dealers asking for $2-3K over MSRP.
The latest news I've heard is that the NAV will come with the 6 disk changer now but the price will also go up a commensurate amount (~$300).
Invoice oriented pricing is a phenom that pertains to readily available, easily replaceable cars in a market that is highly competitive with similar products...
Due to the fact that the Touareg has not even been Officially launched yet, and with only 23,000
available for this year and only 40,000 for next,
it would be unrealistic to expect any discounting on this product in the foreseeable future.
And praj. I would agree...The Touareg is not for you...
The adjustable suspension, incline angles, and the fact that the NAV can handle off-road navigation is proof of this.
I think this is where the "Premium" pricing over these other SUVs come in. This SUV can be taken on some serious off-road courses if it has to.
But seriously, over 95% of SUVs purchased never leave the asphalt. My guess is that 95% of Touareg owners will never let it go off-road either - so that will nullify the price premium for most buyers.
I dropped off one of my employees today at a very nice local VW dealer. He was having trouble with his 2000 V6 Jetta (minor trouble, but trouble).
The dealership is fairly new, is a stand alone VW dealer and frankly looks "fresh" -- possibly it has the look VW is mandating.
When we pulled in (I in my car and he in his) we got out -- the lot lizards attacked. This is what I expect at a Ford dealership.
Also, the entire sign in at the service desk, while very modern, computerized and the guy even had on the white coat -- just seemed down down down a few notches from the Audi dealership just up the road 10 miles.
The level of service -- how can I describe it -- OK here goes. There is nothing wrong with a 3 star hotel generally speaking, but a 4 star hotel is a huge step up and a 5 star hotel generally a huge step up from a 4 star.
The 3 star hotel is clean, polite and has all the needed amenities -- the 4 star hotel adds a touch of luxury and a bit more attentiveness and the people almost seem at once invisible and always at the ready to help. At the 3 star hotel, the people are willing to help but they are not always at the ready -- you have to ask them for their kind assitance. And if you want something different in the 3 star than the standard fare, well it is either extra cost or, usually, not available.
The 4 star hotel will make sure there is Champaign in the room in advance if that is what you request (not that it is free, although sometimes it is).
My Audi dealer is fairly old, but the treatment is, hmm, like going to the Concierge Level at a Marriot -- it is a step above. Conversely, the VW dealer was like checking into a normal Marriot room in a non resort city. The treatment was cordial and professional, true but the overall experience was more mechanical and less "warm."
The sense, again, is that VW will be selling much more expensive cars -- SOON. But the treatment is still just adequate.
While staying at a Holiday Inn express is NOT a bad thing to do, the service level is not high (not that the service is bad, it is just limited). Perhaps you may find it easier to understand that I find it hard to believe that people will pay full list for a Toureg with merely "standard" service levels.
How does VW intend to roll this upper class treatment out? I find it hard to imagine that one day it will be the way it is today and the day the Toureg or Phaeton hits the parking lot that the lot lizards will either vanish or get some class and that the service department will magically have an improved bedside manner.
Splain this to me please.
;-)
There seems to be a bunch of 'exchanging' going on, which is just fine...usually.
Seriously, this is finally an "SUV" which might be interesting, to me, but *only* if I can get the turbo-diesel. I currently have a Suzuki Grand Vitara, don't really like it, but we used to live at 8,700 feet of elevation in CO, and *had* to have one *real* 4x4. The Touareg seems to fit the bill, i.e., real 4wd, but is *so* much nicer. Don't need the 4wd for snow here in OR, but a bike wreck makes it nearly impossible to get in/out of a 'car', which is a real drag, as I don't like big station wagons.
Sorry, feel an anti-SUV rant coming on... (breathe deeply...breathe deeply)
;-)
Say, has anyone seen an owner's manual? If so, did you notice if it was towable 'four down'?
Thanks!
Kelly B
(still lusting after a new-style Q-45...)
I'm one of those people who just paid full list on a V6 Touareg. :-)
Here's my take on this. While your hotel analogy is good, it doesn't quite fit. I'm perfectly happy in a 2-3 star hotel, and unwilling to part with the cash for a 4 star -- I'm only there during the nights and only for a day or two. As long as the 2-3 star is clean and honest, I'm happy to pocket the savings. Occasionally, you find that gem that charges 2-3 star prices, but provides you with 4 star treatment...perhaps that's what VW is shooting for.
In the 5 months we waited for the Touareg to arrive, my wife and I researched and test drove nearly every car/suv that fit what we were looking for. After driving the V6 Touareg, we felt that it just fit the bill; At just under $38K, we're getting a car that's cheaper than an MDX w/ touring and less than a base X5. The car, IMO, has a nicer interior that either, handles at least as well if not better than the X5. (Of course we're taking a risk seeing that it's a first year model)
The fact that we liked the car played the largest role in our decision. The price was secondary, but it remained competitive with other cars we liked. While we won't be getting the 'white glove' experience like we might have received at BWM or Lexus, it played no role in our decision making.
My point was VWGuilds declaration that the car will be sold without discounting.
Your Toureg was not the $51K version -- and that is in no way meant to be a negative.
It has been my experience that someone who pays $51K for a car (Toureg) or perhaps $70K (Phaeton) will always expect the 4 or 5 star treatment.
There are probably many VW dealers that already do this. Reading this discussion and others makes me conclude that the data suggest otherwise: many VW dealers DO NOT treat their customers like "high end" buyers.
I am pulling for VW, I like the Toureg. I am out of the market for at least 18 - 22 months since I have an 8 month young 03 allroad (on a 36 month lease).
I also am pulling for the Phaeton.
I just want to understand how the current crop of VW dealers will morph into the new VW dealers they are supposed to be(come).
vwguild is, afterall, working for a VW dealer. Dealers will sell the car for as high a price as the market will bear. If they find no takers at MSRP, then they'll be forced to reduce the price. Given the reported production numbers and the gobs of positive press the Touareg has garnered, it may be some time before there's discounting, though. The model Acura uses on the MDX is a good one (for Acura), even though it is a bit frustrating for the buyer.
Your Toureg was not the $51K version -- and that is in no way meant to be a negative.
Hmm. You make a good point. In the past, I have voiced concerns that VW might be in danger of pricing themselves out of the market. Even if I had spent $48K for the V8, I would not be expecting special treatment from my dealer (and frankly would be surprised if I received it). I suspect, however, that I'm not your 'average Joe'. I actually feel that VW's lack of a marquee name is a plus.
mike
I had a '73 Coupe DeVille which tipped the scales at around 5300 lbs. Cloud-like ride, but it had, um, 'trouble', changing direction.... Still, I really liked that car.
Kelly
The 6 pax cd changer must come with the NAV package the price did go up by an extra $300 when I added to my order.
I won't be surprised if Touareg joins the league of the Invoice oriented pricing phenom just in a few months - such as the Ford Explorer OR Chevy/GM TrailB/Enyoy OR VW's own Passat and some of the Audis.
My interest in Touareg was due to my positive experience with the 2002 VW Passat GLX 4Motion but now I'm looking elsewhere...VWGuide, any suggestions? I’d like to stay below 40k ceiling.
I looked at another Touareg last night tan/tan, talk about boring colors geez. Interior..impressive at first, upon close examination lot o'plastic...move the drivers seat all the way back to discover an electronic module of some sort and some wires. Not good.
All set to clump down the cash needed to obtain a V8 premium...serious second thoughts.
I believe that you were actually looking at the battery. Yup, that's right; the battery in the Touareg is located underneath the driver's seat. The cover in the battery cover in the V6 we drove was not installed (pre-PDI?) and the wires were visible. It was not this way when I picked it up :-)
DO NOT...DO NOT MISREPRESENT THE PRICE OF HANDHELP AUTOMOBILE NAVAGATION SYSTEMS.
PLEASE RESEARCH THE INTERNET AND YOU WILL QUICKLY LEARN THAT COMPETENT PRODUCTS GO FOR $1,000 TO $2,000 WITH A FEW MODELS JUST UNDER 1k.
EXAMPLES ARE GARMIN, NAVMAN, PIONEER, MAGELLAN, AMONG OTHERS.
THE $300 GPS (PORTABLE) MENTIONED BY SOMEONE IN THIS FORUM MAY NOT BE DESIGNED FOR CARS. THAT IS PROBLABLY A SIMPLE GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM LIKE THE ONES USED IN A SAILBOAT...WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE STREETS, HAS A DATABASE OF LOCATIONS AND TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION "ONE WAY STREETS" "ALTERNATIVE ROUTES" AND OTHER FEATURES SUCH AS "NEAREST ATM OR GAS STATION".
THE $300 GPS DOES NOT COMPARE TO THE REAL THING.
BY THE WAY...JETTAS AND PASSATS SHOULD CONSIDER MANUFACTURER INSTALLED NAV JUST AS THEIR COMPETITORS DO (BMW, INFINITY, LEXUS, ACURA, MB AND OTHERS- EVEN HONDA ACCORDS HAVE IT...GO FIGURE)
SPECIALLY WHEN VW APPEALS TO THE YOUNGER MARKET...A MARKET THAT IS TECHNOLOGY ORIENTED AND LOVES GADGETS (I.E. INSTANT MESSAGES AND E-MAIL READY CELL PHONES)...DUH....STUPID...VERY STUPID NOT TO OFFER IT...WHAT IS VW THINKING!!!!! NAV SYSTEMS ARE NOT A STATE OF THE ART ITEM ANY MORE....VOLKSWAGEN IS JUST MISSING THE BOAT!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=909444
As for handheld GPS receivers, there are some nice ones with full U.S. street databases, points-of-interest and routing. You can get a Garmin GPS V Deluxe for $325 plus about $50 for accessories to use in a car. It even interfaces with a PC which is something I wish built-in units would do.
Everyone that I know that had to have one as an option in their car when they got it now considers it a waste of $$.
The fact that VW placed one in the premium package is wasteful, I don't want it nor do I want to pay for it.
I already know how to get home and to the office. An atlas, common sense and a little reasoning can handle the rest.
Nav systems -- I don't know nuttin' about hand held Nav systems, so I will not, cannot comment about them. If they do what is said, they would seem to be a good thing, but for the life of me, I can't imagine using one as I walked around a "strange" city. But that is just me.
On the other hand, I find -- even in my home town of Cincinnati -- that I use the Nav system regularly. And, since I am an IT and software consultant with a territory of Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, southern Michigan and wester Pennslyvania (and a sometimes visit to West Va); and since a drive from Cincinnati to Cleveland takes 3.5 hours (which these days is about the same time it takes to fly) -- well I drive a lot.
One day I have to go to "Twinsburg" Ohio (a suburb of Cleveland), the next day greater Lousiville, Kentucky then a quick trip to Columbus, Ohio followed by Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Of course, I could go on -- about all the little towns and even non-towns, but thankfully I won't.
I use my sat nav system almost daily. Last night for example, my wife and I had opera tickets -- downtown Cincinnati. I was in a north eastern suburb of Cincinnati and started down the interstate highway. Traffic jam.
I programmed my destination (which was a familiar location in downtown) and pushed the "traffic jam" button. The nav system rerouted me, I made it in plenty of time (10 min to spare) and enjoyed dinner and the opera. The computer took me ways that I would never have dreamed of -- and I have lived in this City since 1977.
I consider sat nav as a technology that is "approaching the status of necessity." I consider it a time saver and perhaps more importantly a safety feature. I do not have to -- in unfamiliar surroundings -- concentrate on road signs and other guideposts -- I can concentrate on defensive driving, the sat nav lady takes care of virtually everything. And, she never gets mad if I miss a turn or ignore her deliberately.
She knows where gas stations and ATM's are and when I was going to -- for me -- East Egypt (Sommerset Pennsylvania) and I was hungry, she introduced me to a wonderful Italian restaurant in Washington PA.
Sat Nav -- by this time next year -- a necessity, not just a toy, not just a convenience. A time saver and perhaps a life saver.
The in-car kind, FOR ME, the only way to go.
We are on our fourth Audi with this technology and in Europe VW's of all kinds have the option of this technology.
Don't leave home without it.
And, this is not meant to be a slam on the hand held or aftermarket types -- When I was in Sacramento last month on business, I rented a Hertz car specifically with Neverlost (an aftermarket product) and used it successfully for three days to drive into Sacramento, Folsom and all around "wine country" where my client wanted to go to visit wineries that use the software we work with.
One more must have rear Parktronic. Especially in an allroad and I would suspect in a Toureg it would be way beyond novel.
And, a friendly response to the common sense comment: Common sense is an oxymoron. Common sense is generally "your sense" and therefore only "common" as in everyday and routine to 1 person or at most a small group of people (twins often have "common sense") -- if there was such a thing as common sense, why would anyone EVER pass on the right? And the list could, but once again thankfully will not go endlessly on.
Strike the word common and I am OK -- common sense means reason and logic TO ONE PERSON -- it is hardly common to all or even many.
Still, 5,500 lbs. Ack. Well, the 10cyl TD ought to be standard equipment...sub-7 sec 0-60, 310 HP, 555 lb. ft. of torque *and* 25 MPG??!! Yeah, sign me up! Plus, it'll last forever...
Kelly B
becoming a VW guy, against my prior wishes....
Steve, Host
The steering was very light and acceleration was adequate at best. It handled reasonably well but you could feel the extra mass. I have to say that it isn't as over priced as I thought originally they had a v8 with nav and the MSRP was right around 45k. That is a little more than the sticker on my FX35 so not out of line. The dealer is holding MSRP firm and have a waiting list with 1k deposits. All in all a nice vehicle but I still think the FX satisfy my needs better. If the toureg was slightly larger and offered a third row seat I would probably get it along with the FX but seems like I'll have to keep waiting for the Nissan Armada.
What I have on order is:
V-8 with convenience package and the Nav package price:
$42,000 out the door Sept. delivery
Good or bad deal? I'll lose my $1000 if I back out
Thanks
I like the looks and I love VW's but I think we'll wait awhile to pursue this vehicle again. Maybe when supply can match the demand, I'll get to test drive one BEFORE forking over that kind of money. (By the way, the Volvo dealer down the street would have let us test drive an XC90 to our hearts content and they were so busy showing and selling cars their parking lot looked like Wal-Mart on payday!)
tidester, host
And with this product more that any other before it, if you don't sell 'em; you won't get 'em.
OK, impression of the Toureg. I did not like the "100%" stock wheels on this particular vehicle.
The only option was the Premium Package, BTW.
The interior -- hmm, I was impressed. Previous posts about it [being or] having too much plastic escape me. Sure it has plastic -- but it looks in the same class as the Audi interiors in terms of the feel of the dash, etc. And, even those who bash Audi's almost alwasy praise their interiors.
Who knows, perhaps they would not be durable (the VW's, that is -- I already have considerable Audi experience and other than dirt accumulation on Ecru and Vanilla interiors, I would attest that Audi interiors "wear just fine" and do look and feel expensive.)
The charcterization of the Toureg as a "truck" is a bit amusing and/or confusing. Most folks call SUV's "cars" -- I have several close friends and many casual friends who have SUV's (or, like me, allroads) and we all call our (to varying degrees) offroad capable vehicles cars.
Sitting behind the wheel -- not driving, unfortunately as the vehicle was sold within a couple of hours of coming off of the truck -- the Toureg seems like an upper-middle-class car/SUV. It has a ride height that could be trucky, I guess.
Now, onto the sales person. Disclosure: relatively "new" stand alone VW dealer (no other dealers within at least 5 miles -- of any kind). It is geographically close to the "premier" real-estate area of our small city (million dollar+ houses are plentiful). The sales person -- middle aged -- started by comparing the Toureg to Fords and Mercury's [SUV's] which, she said, she had been previously selling for years and quickly pointed out the "bargain" that the Toureg was.
This particular Toureg was in the mid $30's -- I would have to agree with her.
She told me that the dealership, and all dealerships were on allocation and that they would be getting them in "probably one or two every week." Furthermore, ordering one was, for the forseeable future, not possible -- take the color we have, take the options we have -- maybe you can order one next year. If someother dealer has one that is the color you want, we may be able to trade for it.
And, she continued, we won't have too many V8's -- so far, I mostly understand and believe her statements.
I asked her several questions (she was not overwhelmed at that moment with any other customers) about the RS32 and the Phaeton.
Where to begin? Let's just say that I left wondering if she was uninformed or ignorant, misinformed or ignorant, not the sharpest tool in the shed or that she "mis-stated" herself.
On Phaetons: "Phaetons are designed for the collector, not really someone who wants to have a car to drive [daily]." Huh? "You see, they are too fast for the United States. . .so you won't see them very often and besides they will cost perhaps as much as $65,000 and they won't be very popular."
I wondered if she had ever heard of an Audi S4, S6, RS6, A8 or S8 (from the fraternal twin company that I assumed she was at least "familiar" with).
"We may or may not get any, and if we do, since they have 12 valve engines, they will just be way too fast to drive on our highways."
OK, so the US will be getting V6 engines with 2 valves per cylinder? I wondered if she knew how many valves a top of the line Passat V6 4Motion has? I didn't even bother asking about a W8 6spd manual "sport" (a model that I have to this day NEVER seen -- oh wait there's bigfoot!).
"The RS32 will be here in August but you can't order one of them either -- whatever we get in colors and options, etc., well it will be pretty much take it or leave it." "The RS32 is an experimental car and will be very expensive."
Does VW think or know that this will be an experimental car that will be priced out of the range of VW customers (except the, uh, er "experimental" customers?)
I told her that my wife had a TT and that she was considering the RS32 as a replacement (perhaps) for a TT. Last week there was a TV test report of this experimental VW (US cable TV TNN) which they said, as tested as $28+K. My wife's TT was over $42K. We would consider the RS32 NOT inexpensive, but hardly "very expensive" (I know it is all relevant).
By the way, I pulled into the dealership (and the salesperson and I saw each other) in my 2003 allroad (which I realize may or may not be recognized as a potentially $50K vehicle) -- and at every turn, when I asked about V8 Touregs, RS32's or Phaeton's I was told such things as "collector's items; you can't order one; experimental car; not much demand will exist for a V8 Toureg because they will be too expensive. . .and," and, several similar remakrs that made me want to run for the relative "sanity" of talking with the Audi sales, management and service people. Who -- as in Pretty Woman -- will behave as if "I can tell you're a person of power and influence -- and you're a handsome man. . ." Of course, Richard Geer says, "not me you moron, HER!"
And we all have a good laugh.
The VW dealer's rep seemed as if she would be much more at home at Sears selling dishwasher's on weekends as her part-time job.
Hopefully this was a one time mis-match between future potential customer and dealer rep.
At this point, I doubt it.
I can hardly wait to drive a car that is too fast and a collector's item -- perhaps as my daily driver. I'll be one of a kind and pigs will fly.
------- Memorandum ------
From: VW Management
To: VW Dealerships
Re: New vehicles - Toureg, RS32, W8 Sport Passat 6spd, Phaeton
Get with the program - up market, up scale, up price. Program assumes you understand that customer's expectations regarding the entire experience of buying and owning VW's is "movin' on up. . .to the east side, to a de-lux apartment. . ."
If you get my drift.
To repeat, get with the program, or get out of the way.
Now, onto the sales person.
I think there's something of a culture clash at your local VW dealership. They've been selling econoboxes forever and now they're being magically morphed into having all the qualities expected from a Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus dealership. My local dealer is building a new building but they'll still have the same sales staff, the same service staff, and, mostly, the same econobox customer base. I think the Touareg will do OK for a year until the typical VW mechanical and quality problems start happening to the car. At that point, the true colors of their awful customer service will show and there will be a glut of high end cars sitting on the lot.
As background... I bought a W8 Passat last July after test driving almost everything else within +/- $10k, including the Audi A6 (3.0 and 2.7t), BMW 530, Lexus GS300, and so on. I was blown away! I bought it on the spot and have been more than happy ever since.
So as I started to hear and read about the Touareg... I expected a similar outcome... Heads and shoulders above the other entry-level luxury offerings. In recent weeks I drove the RX330 and both Volvo XC90s as a warm up.
Well, onto the Touareg. Fit and finish is impeccable. Looks amazing. But behind the wheel... Oh no...
The V6 is wholly inadequate. The V8 is only marginally better. Acceleration is tepid and the 6 speed tranny doesn't hold the low gears long enough. Perhaps, as the salesman mentioned, it's got all the get-up-and-go that you "need." But at this price point, and competing with the likes of Porsche and Lexus and BMW... Well it's not really about "need" at all, is it?
The salesman mentioned that the diesel W-10 might make it to the US for the 2005 model year...
And yeah, the steering is also a problem. It's too light, and over-assisted. No road feel. What you feel is all that mass. It felt, more than anything else, like my father's Suburban. That's not what I was hoping for...
Oh well. I don't mean to be too harsh. I do suspect that my expectations were too high, and maybe I enjoy the gas pedal more than most. But I don't know; at this price point I'm not much into making compromises.
I have to second the comments re VW dealers. I've been to 5 in two states. Only 1 was marginally acceptable. Most are pitiful, with no parking, inadequate waiting areas, and so on. Did I mention that when I bought my W8, I had to wait 45 minutes to talk to a salesman while the F&I guys drank their coffee and stared at me?! Interesting treatment given that I was there to look at the most expensive car on the lot. The W8, and to some extent the Touareg, speaks for itself. I'm sure that the Phaeton will also be very very nice, if not a world beater. Their marketing machine has been on a roll for several years now. But they need to upgrade the dealership experience if they really want to play on this field...
Then again, you might spend one or two days a year at the dealer. But you'll drive that car every day...
Happy ending here is that my local VW dealer is clearing out their 2003s at below invoice. Suddenly that W8 wagon is looking awful nice...