Well to beging with. It was me that mention the "rip off" phrase. and the sample of the house do not apply at all, cus' the realtor will give you the market price for the unit and if you have a folio # you could go to city hall and find out how much the owner paid for the house and the units around it, then you could do the math. plus it is all there not surprises at closing and one more thing the house will go up in value:) :)and yes, dealer have sales person to help consumers(supposely)with the sale they should not be there to lie to them yes they will lie through their *** and take the customer for a ride. yes if i buy something like a car ex.20,000 is not the same as a 10.00 pair of shoes. Greetings from sunny Miami
I thought earlier but I was wrong. Production just started last Friday so two weeks to dealers. do not want the very first silver. Those first ones all go to Honda company and testing companies.
NEWSWIRE-
Honda Begins Production of the All-New 2003 Accord
Marysville, Ohio 08/16/2002 -- Production of the all-new 2003 Honda Accord began today at the Marysville Auto Plant.
In a rolling model change, the first '03 Accord, a Metallic Silver sedan, was driven off the production line at 12:17p.m. Eastern time on the heels of its popular predecessor model.
The completely redesigned Accord sedan goes on sale Sept. 9, followed by the new sporty coupe Sept.18.
"The Accord is the flagship product in our model lineup," Tom Shoupe, plant manager of the Marysville Auto Plant, told associates today. "You have the strength, experience and commitment to provide customers with world-class quality and reliability."
The 7th generation Accord boasts dynamic new styling in both the sedan and coupe models to capture the attention of younger consumers, while providing the performance and quality that Accord customers expect.
The Accord was the best-selling car in America in 2001. Exterior styling for the sedan and coupe is more distinctive, and the two models will share only their headlights for '03. A host of additional standard equipment has been added on all models, including anti-lock brakes, tilt and telescopic steering and 5-speed automatic transmissions.
The Accord has been manufactured for nearly 20 years at the Marysville Auto Plant. In addition to the Accord, the Acura TL sedan and Acura CL coupe are produced at the Marysville Auto Plant. The Marysville plant assembled 456,348 cars last year, more than any other plant in North America.
The V-6 and four-cylinder engines for the Accord are produced at Honda's engine plant in Anna, Ohio. The Anna Engine Plant produces more than one million engines per year for Honda auto plants throughout North America.
tan, red - from the press releases white - from the early "spy" photos silver, black - from a brochure online at canadian Honda dark green - from wieck.com (thanks whoever posted that here! great stuff.)
and if it *is* different: light sage - from canadiandriver.com. Could this be the same as the tan, but shown in a green environment? I can barely imagine it.
Talked to my dealer recently. No word on exact pricing but they still have some 03 Accords including one or two EX V-6 sedans, remaining on existing allocations for the infamous $316 over invoice deal. No joke. Email me for dealer details if interested jcro3717@aol.com
Thanks for the website posting, it was very informative. One thing I did notice was the 2003 preview page. On it they list all of the 03 Hondas. I noticed at the bottom where they said 2004 could be the last year for the S2k, so sad =(
Why the mystery? Only reason not to release would be a price hold or a price decrease. HOnda has promised < 2%. I see the newly equiped ABS equipped cars as having the highest hit since that is costly. LX (4) + $500, EX (4) + 300, EX V-6 + 400 (curtain air bags). and DX who cares I have only seen 2 in my life. With nav an Accord can run $28,000 that is a little steep considering Acura not far away. My deal is $316 over invoice but I still want to know the invoice. INKY
I think your estimates are reasonable, plus or minus the odd $50 or so. Since the first production cars are now rolling out the door, it can't be a secret much longer...
I called my Honda dealer yesterday, he's expecting prices "within the next couple of weeks". I also told him that I was intereted in one of the models with a navigation system, could he check to see if they had any of those on order. He went through his build list and couldn't find ANY date for ANY car with a nav. system to be built. It looks like the full range will be coming on stream over the course of time.
Does anyone here have a 2003 Accord reserved and if so, what type is it? It might help us to figure out what's coming online when.
Mine is a Noble Green 03 EX V-6L from August allocation. Being built today I hope! People are going to see sticker prices before dealers get official price from Honda. New 02's will still be rolling in from the factory to dealers the next 10 days. INKY
sorry about the caps earlier folks...i forget sometimes...lol.
just to let you all know, we had '03 accord allocation with build dates as early as july 16th!! no doubt Honda is holding them in Ohio somewhere.
anyway, INKY...you said your dealer still has some '03 accords going for $316 over invoice...ummm...the '03 isnt out yet, buddy, so the likelihood of them STILL having them is exactly zero.
we are selling '02 accords for invoice plus adds, but i havent seen or heard any mention of prices from any dealer on '03's. there is a reason for this:
American Honda does not want advertisement on the '03 accord until they authorize it...and they have given SPECIFIC instructions not to even acknowledge the car in any advertisement till then. if your dealer is advertising that, then they could lose as much as 76% of their allocation accross the board! this includes odysseys, pilots, crvs, civics, accords, AND elements! no intelligent businessperson would take this chance...so...i would check with the dealer and ask specifically which model accord they will sell for $316 over, and go from there.
No one, including Inky, said that this Oklahoma dealer was ADVERTISING these prices on '03s. You don't have to advertise when word-of-mouth works just as well; I know the dealer that he is referring to, and if I weren't 1500 miles away, I'd be a regular customer.
Everyone knows that franchise agreements are a state-law issue, that the dealer has the upper hand in all disputes, and that this dealer has/is doing nothing to put his franchise or allocation in jeopardy. He can sell these cars for whatever price he wants, and that includes $1 over invoice, or pick-a-number.
Inky has made it clear that this is not an across-the-board deal, that they are only looking to sell out their first allocation, that they reserve the right to limit the number of initial deals at this price, etc. Where's the beef?
This dealer is BIG; they move a lot of cars, and to buyers from all over the region. They're doing nothing but selling the product the way they know works. I say 'good for them'...
Why so mean-spirited? This dealer has always been $316 over invoice on Accords/Civics (past 5 years anyway) They have about .001% of total market so why cry about them not being greedy--it will not affect you. Unless you are a Honda dealer near them who hates to compete. And yes, Honda has punished them over the years via allocation for pricing this way--so I do see the $316 policy ending. I got a 99 Odyssey for $316 over 4 years ago at this dealer. Due to market and pressure the SUVs and vans are now MSRP at this dealer and I have been advised that after initial allocations pricing for the 03 Accord may become market based. This 03 deal was word of mouth by referral. If you are offended-- do not worry about the few folks who took advantage of this. I do not want to talk about this again. Let's just drop it. But a real question, why did HOnda press release say building started last Friday on 03 Accord if some dealers allocations show July builds? Thanks for any insight you have. INKY
It's clear that there are still a few dealers out there, in a few markets, that think that they are dealing with precious metal here. That may be true with the S2000, and temporarily true with the Pilot, it is no longer true about the Odyssey, and has absolutely not been true any time in the past ten years for the rest of the line, including the Accord.
Our salesman is obviously concerned about his profit margins, and that's understandable. I have lots of complaints about the way the US dealer and franchising system works [or occasionally fails to work], but we still come out ahead of the game in the end. Bowke needs to move to the EU, where protected markets and price-fixing are routine...oops, that's about to change, even there...though not for a few more years.
"Hot" products come and go - angry customers NEVER forget the experience of feeling worked over. The best dealers remember both when pricing the product...
im not saying im jealous, or have a beef with this dealer...i just find it weird that the hottest car to hit showrooms in recent history is being discounted right off the bat. we are also the largest dealer in our region, but find no need to give away accords when they get here...as a matter of fact, we've already taken deposits on over half of our 1st month's allocation! all at msrp + accessories. if you can get one from this dealer at that incredible deal...please do, more power to you. and good job in doing so...as a honda professional, i just find it suspect, thats all.
...absolutely no one considers ANY Accord, new model or not, as a "hot product". For about 6-8 weeks max, and not one hour more, my guess is that they will be selling here on the West Coast for something within shouting distance of MSRP. After that, it will be back to business as usual. And more power to you if you work in a more protected market - that's the strength of the US system - the money flows to where it ultimately needs to in order to balance supply and demand.
I bought my first honda product (acura mdx) paying MSRP although I managed to get dealer to throw in some free accessaries. I still feel unsatisfied and sometimes regret the purchase because the baby is pretty noisy (of course not as noisy as a honda lawnmower).
I am currently holding off my purchase of a Camry waiting for the new Accord. I will probably buy the new accord if the new Accord is as quiet as the Camry and LX model has standard 4W disc brakes.
MSRP? no way. I already paid Honda MSRP once. I do not want to pay Honda MSRP twice, especially on a high volume vehicle like accord.
I am glad to see that there are plenty of people out there that will not pay MSRP for a new vehicle. The dealer can ask for MSRP, but wether he gets it depends on us the consumers. The more people turn away from a dealer and show restraint in their car purchases, the better chance it will be to get that vehicle at less than MSRP. It all comes down to the current market.
...and general refinement are also very high on my list of things I am looking for as a positive change in the new Accord. So far, the initial reviews suggest we will not be disappointed, but only a personal test drive will tell, on roads I know.
Road noise [as distinct from wind noise] has indeed been a generic Honda weakness for a long time, and they have promised that this Accord will be a noticeable improvement. We'll see. Certainly the only complaint we had with our '96 Acura RL was the amount of noise that crept into the cabin, especially from the rear wheel wells. There was a distinct improvement between the first of the current-gen cars ['98-'00] and the last two model years [starting in '01] - I noticed it instantly when first driving the '01s [we had a '98 LX 4 at the time] - but even then it never approached Camry levels. The new car is supposed to do that, and if true, in my mind, it becomes the hands-down choice - better seats, better performance, better handling already favor the new Accord - but it needs to stop ringing in your ears after a 600 mile day on the freeway. As I said, we'll soon know...
of our current Accord. Snow thrown up under the front wheelwells sounds as if only the carpet is keeping it outside. There is also alot of wind around the mirrors, but I'll live with that for the large size of the mirrors.
I spend a lot of time on the road, so seat comfort and noise are important considerations for me. It could be a major factor in deciding between a Mazda6 and the Accord, because I've read that the Mazda6 lets in quite a bit of road noise.
Post #472 - It's basic supply and demand. If there is demand for 500,000 Accords and Honda builds 450,000, then they will probably all go for MSRP. Honda can get MSRP and above for an Ody or a Pilot because demand exceeds supply, and even at MSRP they are a good value compared to the competition. IMO, there will be plenty of Accords once the 'pipeline' is full. I wouldn't pay MSRP just to be 'first on the block'. I'm sure they will be discounted eventually.
I had begun to wonder if I were the only person whose sole complaint with my 2000 Accord was noise. Until I read Edmund's report on the '03, I had planned to buy an Avalon on the basis of the quiet ride it offered.
Would most appreciate any road test experience any of you have which deals with noise. (The 240 hp intrigues me and is making me hold off on the Avalon purchase.)
i have the wonderful advantage of being one of the 1st people that will drive a new accord. as a salesperson, i get to go to the "ride-and-drive" on september 3rd. it will be the 1st of several across the country, and im counting the hours.
being in sales, you probably expect me to do nothing but sing high praise, but what i will do is report to you the differences from the current model in feel, handling, acceleration, and of course, noise...lol. keep watching after that day, and ill have all of it for you.
the drive in connecticut was a media drive. MT, C&D, etc... this is for dealers only. ive been pretty curious about the wheels myself, so yes i will report. my assumption for now will be that alloys will go on all the same trim levels except the SE...(no SE for 2003). wheel covers on the LX and down. which ones go on which is anyone's guess.
The discussion at TOV was as follows regarding the sedan's wheels:
The specs at Hondanews.com state that the DX and LX-I4 have 15" wheels with full covers. The LX-V6 has 16" wheels with full covers. The EX-V6 and EX-I4 each have 16" alloy wheels.
The EX-V6 as featured in MT has painted seven-spoke wheels, as does the goldish PR pictured car with the ivory leather interior. Therefore, it is assumed that the EX-I4 has the five-spoke brushed aluminum wheels.
The only thing I know is that the EX-V6 manual will have unique twin spoke five-spoke 17" wheels.
ickes...you are correct in the size and application of the wheels/covers...we dont know yet WHICH wheels/covers they will be though, as all wheel sizes have increased by 1 inch...
im from louisville,ky, and am not familiar with the east coast, but there have been 5 media shows to date...so its an assumption that it was a media showing...also, the 1st dealer intro is in cincinatti on september 3rd, so i know that it wasnt for dealers.
Do the people who paid MSRP or above for a Honda product all feel worked over? that would be the sign of a bad salesman wouldn't it Bowk? I know consumers who paid $3000 above sticker who are very happy and refer their best friends(maybe misery loves company), it all depends on how well the salesman made them feel about their purchase. Please!!!! a good salesman will sell an Odyssey, Pilot, S2000 and YES an Accord at MSRP or above more that 80% of the time. Look at the true cost to own Hondas in comparison with competitors. Anyone who has ever gotten a great deal on a car is gung ho about never paying sticker, maybe you negotiated well, maybe it was a weak sales team, maybe they wanted that Accord off their lot because they would get a Pilot in for the sale of that car and sell it for $4000 over. Maybe either the salesman or manager needed that sale to make a bonus, maybe Honda was giving dealership cash back on the vehicle that month, maybe the dealership was trying to meet a unit quota for the month etc... consumers are privy to a wealth of information nowadays but you would be surprised at the amount of consumers who either do not use that info, go face to face with a good salesman, are raped in the finance dept, I could go on and on. What kills me about the car buying thing is when you go to Bloomingdales to buy a new suit and the price tag says $2000 do consumers pick that suit up and say I want this suit for $1500 or else I am not buying it. This is a business based on numbers and odds. Trust me if every consumer was a tough negotiator the difference between MSRP and invoice would be greater. you would be able to order your car like a hamburger no negotiations, no haggling, strictly MSRP next window please. For every person who paid MSRP or below on a new model Honda there were 5 others who paid above. It is all about numbers. That is just reality. Incidentally I wouldn't pay above sticker or even sticker price for a vehicle but I do my research, and negotiate professionally P.S. Everyone who buys a car under MSRP or buys because of some rebate but still end up paying more for that car than they would for a comparable Honda model that is being sold at or above MSRP is mostly concerned with not having some salesman make a great commission than getting the best possible vehicle for their buying dollar. That is hilarious
...the marketplace determines the cost of the deal. The best salesman walking the earth cannot consistently sell an Accord in our market for significantly more than the competition demands. Period.
I can tell you the VERY good people at the dealership I use would be holding their sides in laughter at the prospect of selling any Accord at or above MSRP...80% of the time? And the sharpies in F&I do indeed get some of that money back, but not as often as you might think.
Anyway, if your point is that uninformed customers get taken every hour of every day, who would argue with that? But trying to consistently maintain transaction prices over the average in a given market is mighty tough where I live.
I have a 2000 ex-v6, yeap the wind noise/road noise can be annoying. I drove the 02 camry for a month - immediately know the significant improvement of these noises. Now my new is300 is more quiet than the 00 accord but not as quiet as the camry. Have not been in an avalon, so can't tell the difference. The 03 accord supposed to be even better than the camry (at least my impression in reading the reviews).
keep in mind, folks, that to attain an "average" price in any given market, there has to be a high, and a low...the better salespeople will sell more at or above msrp, the newer or less talented salesperson will get beat up almost every time. this is how you get an "average". think back to 4th grade, folks.
Prices for the '03 haven't been announced, and won't be for a few more days. Honda has promised that there won't be drastic differences in MSRP, so look for increases on the order of 2% or so. You can consult Edmunds or Kelley to see what that means, depending on the model you're interested in.
For most markets, actual TRANSACTION prices will of course be dramatically higher for the '03s, until supply and demand achieve some kind of equilibrium. On the coasts, that will be within a couple of months, based on previous experience; in less competitive markets, MSRP will prevail longer, probably well into next year.
As for availability and pricing of '02s, for you above-average salespeople lucky enough to be working in those less competitive markets, here's a sample from the Sacto CA market, which is not even the lowest in CA, by any stretch:
Civic LX Automatics - 6 avail $13973 Civic EX Automatics - 17 to choose $15968
Accord EX V6 Sedan - 15 to choose $21691 Accord SE Sedans [auto] - 6 to choose $17791 Accord LX Sedans [manual] - 3 avail $15588 Accord EX-L Sedans - all in stock $5000 off MSRP
Etc, etc.
And in the SF area and LA, you can peel another few hundred off each of these deals. No doubt the Master SalesPersons in these markets are somehow doing better than these "averages"?
Olson - the only rule that matters:
Like politics, all pricing is local. If you want an '03, and live in a competitive market, in about 60 days you can take the '02 invoice, add a couple of % for the '03 difference, and bargain up from there...around here, when the '98s came out in late '97, it was not difficult to get $700-800 over invoice before Thanksgiving on a 4 cyl, but 6 cyl cars were scarce, and prices reflected that. This time around, 6 cyl engine building capacity in North America is dramatically increased, so my guess is that the disparity will not be there this time. But your local market sets the prices...
03 Accords are supposedly in transit. A term I think starts when VIN assigned. Really means 10-14 days out from what I know. College Hills HOnda posts some of this information also by listing model and color in transit as well as build dates for allocated cars. I notice the V-6's are coming later. Hmmn. I feel the 2% price increase is a huge mistake for Honda. Most [non-permissible content removed] manuafactors aka Toyoto camry for 02 lower the price for the new introductions and of course that makes sense since the outgoing cars usually had rebates, incentive and financing which the 03 Accord will not have for at least one year. The price increase is not smart as they will price away from Camry further. But they are the ones who studied what they could get. I have liked the $100-$200 increases of the Odyssey, and CRV etc despite huge improvements for 01-02. Perhaps rumored 2% was just a ploy to get the 02s off the lot faster. INKY
...which is modest enough, the pricing structure still mostly favors the Accord.
Let's say you have to pay full boat for a new '03 EX V6 automatic sedan - $26k? Try pricing even a discounted '03 Camry XLE V6, or better yet for a good long laugh, an '03 Altima 3.5 top-o-the-line [with its rocky ride and indifferent interior]...sure makes the '03 Accord look like the roaring bargain in this class, no matter what kind of "deal" you get.
And it should be no surprise that 4 cyls are shipping first - the LX 4 automatic is still the meat and potatoes of the line...
you would be shocked at the amount of people paying MSRP on Accords, negotiations always start atleast there on every car no matter what, you don't think people pay that, you have no idea how many consumers at the end of the negotiations have no idea what their total investment on the car actually is. In any event I grouped the Accord in with some premium vehicles because that is exactly what the 03 Accord will be, a premium over sticker best seller. Funniest thing happened the other day 2 02'EX Civics at sticker $18270 amazing, the buyers didn't even haggle, incredible and it probably won't happen again but once you understand most people purchase on emotion any number is possible and why shouldn't the consumer pay sticker every time if possible. In terms of less competitive markets I am seeing this happen in Tri-state NY area. All those dealers in California who are letting loose on their inventory at these huge discounts; that is totally reflective of their ability to sell year round, in other words if they had been doing their jobs they wouldn't have this tremendous pressure to Crazy Eddie everything. EX-L's at 5000 below MSRP is a joke and is indicative of dealer desperation. If someone comes into a New York dealership talking those prices they can go and buy it there.
keep in mind that, as honda puts space in pricing, they also put ALOT of space between the cars themselves. both cars are reliable, economical, intelligent investments...thats where the similarities stop dead. the new accord will offer more equipment...lots more... 1. side curtain airbags all the way back.. 2. voice-activated navi... 3. 240 hp in the v6 4. 5-speed auto trans 5. integrated key and fob (like VW) 6. dual zone auto climate control
i could go on, but i think you get the picture...
similar equipment and amenities as the avalon, yet $4-5000 less in msrp...now lets compare apples to apples ok?
...you will get no argument from me that no one ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence and savvy of the average American.
But you don't want to concede the difference in retail climate here, either, and I do find that perfectly understandable: here on the West Coast, there are so many dealers and so much competition that market-based pricing prevails year-round, and it is not a sign of late-year "desperation" or crazy-poor business tactics. I am intimately familiar with the pricing and economics of my local dealer, and they do very well, thank you, year in and year out...their prices are at the low end of the local spectrum, at bit higher [naturally] than SF or LA; they run a great service operation, have a dedicated, state-of-the-art body shop, and have been family-owned since Day 1. Just moved into a new facility 3 years ago that cost millions, so they are not running some shoestring operation. This is a healthy franchise with healthy allocations, and they make their money like most dealers around here: used cars, service, F&I, and new SUVs. Raw margins on new cars can be thin for Civics and Accords because they don't pay the bills.
That you guys can peddle these cars at or above MSRP is a tribute the the way the market works, and I say more power to you. But that doesn't make the way the market works out here irrational - just different. As a retail customer, needless to say, I prefer my local model to the one you enjoy, but that probably goes without saying.
Here, advertising and price-matching are universal, so Civics and Accords are commodities. CRVs are still hot, Pilots and Odysseys too, of course, and no one tries to compete on price for these cars. I travel regularly up and down the coast, and in CA, no Honda dealer can afford to treat the sedans like precious metal...not with every Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan guy scrambling for the same customers.
We bought an '03 Corolla LE automatic [great car, incidentally] for $500 over invoice 45 days after launch, in March. This was not a tough deal to make - two dealers were perfectly willing to do it at that level, so I stopped making phone calls and just got on with it.
im in louisville, ky, and we have 4 honda dealers within a 15 mile radius of downtown...my dealer holds 81% of the local honda market, the other 3 fighting over the remaining 19%. our dealershipdoes very well at having the lowest price presence in the local ads, and yes, we give away accords and civics just like everyone else.
here's why i think this accord will hold msrp a little longer than normal: the powers that be in our store have no need to hold msrp...we are getting 96 accords in the first 30 days after launch...75 sedans, and 21 coupes...we sell between 90 and 100 new accords every month, so there is no shortage...we will sell the 96 accords whether we hold msrp or not...so why not? if you are selling shoes and the new nikes will bring $200 and sell out, why sell them for less?
civics and accords are what control the allocation for all other models with honda. if we were worried about losing allocation by selling them for more, we wouldnt do it in the first place. 41 '03 accords are already spoken for here in our first allocation...regardless of price. non-refundable $1000 deposits with no mention of pricing yet.
We have been looking for a new vehicle. We have a 2002 Ex-V6 and are looking to get rid of our big boat Avalon. Drove the Passat but the base model( 4 cyl) price is $24000. The fully loaded Accord at only a few thousand more even with a price increase is still a bargain. We are holding out for the new model Accord coming out in a few weeks. Mind you the Passat drives great and is loaded with some great safety features. If the new Accord is not pleasing to the eye, it may not sell as well. I don't see that mentioned. What if it's ugly like the Altima?
It's my understanding that wheel/tire upgrades (for sedans) are as follows:
Accord DX - goes from 14" to 15" wheel, with 195/65-15 tires Accord LX - stays at 15", tires go from 195/65-15 to 205/65-15 Accord EX - goes from 15" to 16", with 205/60-16 tires.
As for coupes:
LX has 205/65-15, EX has 205/60-16 and EX-V6 6spd has 215/50-17
I have seen that a lot of options (e.g. on the Pilot) do not have prices shown on Edmunds, but are noted as "dealer installed". Is this generally true of all Honda pricing ? If so, it really gives the dealers a lot of room to play with prices. I have heard some bad things about Honda dealers (i.e. very arrogant) and this "cowboy" approach to pricing is something the Honda company should be worried about. Maybe if you're selling 400,000 Accords, you can be arrogant.
Comments
Greetings from sunny Miami
do not want the very first silver. Those first ones all go to Honda company and testing companies.
NEWSWIRE-
Honda Begins Production of the All-New 2003 Accord
Marysville, Ohio 08/16/2002 -- Production of the all-new 2003 Honda Accord began today at the Marysville Auto Plant.
In a rolling model change, the first '03 Accord, a Metallic Silver sedan, was driven off the production line at 12:17p.m. Eastern time on the heels of its popular predecessor model.
The completely redesigned Accord sedan goes on sale Sept. 9, followed by the new sporty coupe Sept.18.
"The Accord is the flagship product in our model lineup," Tom Shoupe, plant manager of the Marysville Auto Plant, told associates today. "You have the strength, experience and commitment to provide customers with world-class quality and reliability."
The 7th generation Accord boasts dynamic new styling in both the sedan and coupe models to capture the attention of younger consumers, while providing the performance and quality that Accord customers expect.
The Accord was the best-selling car in America in 2001. Exterior styling for the sedan and coupe is more distinctive, and the two models will share only their headlights for '03. A host of additional standard equipment has been added on all models, including anti-lock brakes, tilt and telescopic steering and 5-speed automatic transmissions.
The Accord has been manufactured for nearly 20 years at the Marysville Auto Plant. In addition to the Accord, the Acura TL sedan and Acura CL coupe are produced at the Marysville Auto Plant. The Marysville plant assembled 456,348 cars last year, more than any other plant in North America.
The V-6 and four-cylinder engines for the Accord are produced at Honda's engine plant in Anna, Ohio. The Anna Engine Plant produces more than one million engines per year for Honda auto plants throughout North America.
American Honda Motor Company
tan, red - from the press releases
white - from the early "spy" photos
silver, black - from a brochure online at canadian Honda
dark green - from wieck.com (thanks whoever posted that here! great stuff.)
and if it *is* different:
light sage - from canadiandriver.com. Could this be the same as the tan, but shown in a green environment? I can barely imagine it.
Any others?
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/2002.htm
Email me for dealer details if interested
jcro3717@aol.com
With nav an Accord can run $28,000 that is a little steep considering Acura not far away.
My deal is $316 over invoice but I still want to know the invoice.
INKY
find ANY date for ANY car with a nav. system to be built. It looks like the full range will be coming on stream over the course of time.
Does anyone here have a 2003 Accord reserved and if so, what type is it? It might help us to figure out what's coming online when.
New 02's will still be rolling in from the factory to dealers the next 10 days.
INKY
just to let you all know, we had '03 accord allocation with build dates as early as july 16th!! no doubt Honda is holding them in Ohio somewhere.
anyway, INKY...you said your dealer still has some '03 accords going for $316 over invoice...ummm...the '03 isnt out yet, buddy, so the likelihood of them STILL having them is exactly zero.
we are selling '02 accords for invoice plus adds, but i havent seen or heard any mention of prices from any dealer on '03's. there is a reason for this:
American Honda does not want advertisement on the '03 accord until they authorize it...and they have given SPECIFIC instructions not to even acknowledge the car in any advertisement till then. if your dealer is advertising that, then they could lose as much as 76% of their allocation accross the board! this includes odysseys, pilots, crvs, civics, accords, AND elements! no intelligent businessperson would take this chance...so...i would check with the dealer and ask specifically which model accord they will sell for $316 over, and go from there.
Everyone knows that franchise agreements are a state-law issue, that the dealer has the upper hand in all disputes, and that this dealer has/is doing nothing to put his franchise or allocation in jeopardy. He can sell these cars for whatever price he wants, and that includes $1 over invoice, or pick-a-number.
Inky has made it clear that this is not an across-the-board deal, that they are only looking to sell out their first allocation, that they reserve the right to limit the number of initial deals at this price, etc. Where's the beef?
This dealer is BIG; they move a lot of cars, and to buyers from all over the region. They're doing nothing but selling the product the way they know works. I say 'good for them'...
If you are offended-- do not worry about the few folks who took advantage of this.
I do not want to talk about this again. Let's just drop it.
But a real question, why did HOnda press release say building started last Friday on 03 Accord if some dealers allocations show July builds?
Thanks for any insight you have.
INKY
Our salesman is obviously concerned about his profit margins, and that's understandable. I have lots of complaints about the way the US dealer and franchising system works [or occasionally fails to work], but we still come out ahead of the game in the end. Bowke needs to move to the EU, where protected markets and price-fixing are routine...oops, that's about to change, even there...though not for a few more years.
"Hot" products come and go - angry customers NEVER forget the experience of feeling worked over. The best dealers remember both when pricing the product...
I am currently holding off my purchase of a Camry waiting for the new Accord. I will probably buy the new accord if the new Accord is as quiet as the Camry and LX model has standard 4W disc brakes.
MSRP? no way. I already paid Honda MSRP once. I do not want to pay Honda MSRP twice, especially on a high volume vehicle like accord.
Please...
INKY
Road noise [as distinct from wind noise] has indeed been a generic Honda weakness for a long time, and they have promised that this Accord will be a noticeable improvement. We'll see. Certainly the only complaint we had with our '96 Acura RL was the amount of noise that crept into the cabin, especially from the rear wheel wells. There was a distinct improvement between the first of the current-gen cars ['98-'00] and the last two model years [starting in '01] - I noticed it instantly when first driving the '01s [we had a '98 LX 4 at the time] - but even then it never approached Camry levels. The new car is supposed to do that, and if true, in my mind, it becomes the hands-down choice - better seats, better performance, better handling already favor the new Accord - but it needs to stop ringing in your ears after a 600 mile day on the freeway. As I said, we'll soon know...
I spend a lot of time on the road, so seat comfort and noise are important considerations for me. It could be a major factor in deciding between a Mazda6 and the Accord, because I've read that the Mazda6 lets in quite a bit of road noise.
Would most appreciate any road test experience any of you have which deals with noise. (The 240 hp intrigues me and is making me hold off on the Avalon purchase.)
i have the wonderful advantage of being one of the 1st people that will drive a new accord. as a salesperson, i get to go to the "ride-and-drive" on september 3rd. it will be the 1st of several across the country, and im counting the hours.
being in sales, you probably expect me to do nothing but sing high praise, but what i will do is report to you the differences from the current model in feel, handling, acceleration, and of course, noise...lol. keep watching after that day, and ill have all of it for you.
One request: Would you figure out and report back which wheels go on which sedan?
this is for dealers only. ive been pretty curious about the wheels myself, so yes i will report. my assumption for now will be that alloys will go on all the same trim levels except the SE...(no SE for 2003). wheel covers on the LX and down. which ones go on which is anyone's guess.
Michael
http://www.vtec.net
I live in CT (SW Fairfield County) and am curious if it was near me.
The specs at Hondanews.com state that the DX and LX-I4 have 15" wheels with full covers. The LX-V6 has 16" wheels with full covers. The EX-V6 and EX-I4 each have 16" alloy wheels.
The EX-V6 as featured in MT has painted seven-spoke wheels, as does the goldish PR pictured car with the ivory leather interior. Therefore, it is assumed that the EX-I4 has the five-spoke brushed aluminum wheels.
The only thing I know is that the EX-V6 manual will have unique twin spoke five-spoke 17" wheels.
im from louisville,ky, and am not familiar with the east coast, but there have been 5 media shows to date...so its an assumption that it was a media showing...also, the 1st dealer intro is in cincinatti on september 3rd, so i know that it wasnt for dealers.
sorry, i couldn't resist
P.S.
Everyone who buys a car under MSRP or buys because of some rebate but still end up paying more for that car than they would for a comparable Honda model that is being sold at or above MSRP is mostly concerned with not having some salesman make a great commission than getting the best possible vehicle for their buying dollar. That is hilarious
I can tell you the VERY good people at the dealership I use would be holding their sides in laughter at the prospect of selling any Accord at or above MSRP...80% of the time? And the sharpies in F&I do indeed get some of that money back, but not as often as you might think.
Anyway, if your point is that uninformed customers get taken every hour of every day, who would argue with that? But trying to consistently maintain transaction prices over the average in a given market is mighty tough where I live.
For most markets, actual TRANSACTION prices will of course be dramatically higher for the '03s, until supply and demand achieve some kind of equilibrium. On the coasts, that will be within a couple of months, based on previous experience; in less competitive markets, MSRP will prevail longer, probably well into next year.
As for availability and pricing of '02s, for you above-average salespeople lucky enough to be working in those less competitive markets, here's a sample from the Sacto CA market, which is not even the lowest in CA, by any stretch:
Civic LX Automatics - 6 avail $13973
Civic EX Automatics - 17 to choose $15968
Accord EX V6 Sedan - 15 to choose $21691
Accord SE Sedans [auto] - 6 to choose $17791
Accord LX Sedans [manual] - 3 avail $15588
Accord EX-L Sedans - all in stock $5000 off MSRP
Etc, etc.
And in the SF area and LA, you can peel another few hundred off each of these deals. No doubt the Master SalesPersons in these markets are somehow doing better than these "averages"?
Olson - the only rule that matters:
Like politics, all pricing is local. If you want an '03, and live in a competitive market, in about 60 days you can take the '02 invoice, add a couple of % for the '03 difference, and bargain up from there...around here, when the '98s came out in late '97, it was not difficult to get $700-800 over invoice before Thanksgiving on a 4 cyl, but 6 cyl cars were scarce, and prices reflected that. This time around, 6 cyl engine building capacity in North America is dramatically increased, so my guess is that the disparity will not be there this time. But your local market sets the prices...
I feel the 2% price increase is a huge mistake for Honda. Most [non-permissible content removed] manuafactors aka Toyoto camry for 02 lower the price for the new introductions and of course that makes sense since the outgoing cars usually had rebates, incentive and financing which the 03 Accord will not have for at least one year. The price increase is not smart as they will price away from Camry further. But they are the ones who studied what they could get. I have liked the $100-$200 increases of the Odyssey, and CRV etc despite huge improvements for 01-02. Perhaps rumored 2% was just a ploy to get the 02s off the lot faster.
INKY
Let's say you have to pay full boat for a new '03 EX V6 automatic sedan - $26k? Try pricing even a discounted '03 Camry XLE V6, or better yet for a good long laugh, an '03 Altima 3.5 top-o-the-line [with its rocky ride and indifferent interior]...sure makes the '03 Accord look like the roaring bargain in this class, no matter what kind of "deal" you get.
And it should be no surprise that 4 cyls are shipping first - the LX 4 automatic is still the meat and potatoes of the line...
the new accord will offer more equipment...lots more...
1. side curtain airbags all the way back..
2. voice-activated navi...
3. 240 hp in the v6
4. 5-speed auto trans
5. integrated key and fob (like VW)
6. dual zone auto climate control
i could go on, but i think you get the picture...
similar equipment and amenities as the avalon, yet $4-5000 less in msrp...now lets compare apples to apples ok?
But you don't want to concede the difference in retail climate here, either, and I do find that perfectly understandable: here on the West Coast, there are so many dealers and so much competition that market-based pricing prevails year-round, and it is not a sign of late-year "desperation" or crazy-poor business tactics. I am intimately familiar with the pricing and economics of my local dealer, and they do very well, thank you, year in and year out...their prices are at the low end of the local spectrum, at bit higher [naturally] than SF or LA; they run a great service operation, have a dedicated, state-of-the-art body shop, and have been family-owned since Day 1. Just moved into a new facility 3 years ago that cost millions, so they are not running some shoestring operation. This is a healthy franchise with healthy allocations, and they make their money like most dealers around here: used cars, service, F&I, and new SUVs. Raw margins on new cars can be thin for Civics and Accords because they don't pay the bills.
That you guys can peddle these cars at or above MSRP is a tribute the the way the market works, and I say more power to you. But that doesn't make the way the market works out here irrational - just different. As a retail customer, needless to say, I prefer my local model to the one you enjoy, but that probably goes without saying.
Here, advertising and price-matching are universal, so Civics and Accords are commodities. CRVs are still hot, Pilots and Odysseys too, of course, and no one tries to compete on price for these cars. I travel regularly up and down the coast, and in CA, no Honda dealer can afford to treat the sedans like precious metal...not with every Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan guy scrambling for the same customers.
We bought an '03 Corolla LE automatic [great car, incidentally] for $500 over invoice 45 days after launch, in March. This was not a tough deal to make - two dealers were perfectly willing to do it at that level, so I stopped making phone calls and just got on with it.
May the Marketing Force be with you...
our dealershipdoes very well at having the lowest price presence in the local ads, and yes, we give away accords and civics just like everyone else.
here's why i think this accord will hold msrp a little longer than normal:
the powers that be in our store have no need to hold msrp...we are getting 96 accords in the first 30 days after launch...75 sedans, and 21 coupes...we sell between 90 and 100 new accords every month, so there is no shortage...we will sell the 96 accords whether we hold msrp or not...so why not? if you are selling shoes and the new nikes will bring $200 and sell out, why sell them for less?
civics and accords are what control the allocation for all other models with honda. if we were worried about losing allocation by selling them for more, we wouldnt do it in the first place. 41 '03 accords are already spoken for here in our first allocation...regardless of price. non-refundable $1000 deposits with no mention of pricing yet.
Michael
Accord DX - goes from 14" to 15" wheel, with 195/65-15 tires
Accord LX - stays at 15", tires go from 195/65-15 to 205/65-15
Accord EX - goes from 15" to 16", with 205/60-16 tires.
As for coupes:
LX has 205/65-15, EX has 205/60-16 and EX-V6 6spd has 215/50-17