CIvicx has lost two trailing arms from the suspension to give flat floor & bigger trunk/gas. i.e more compact wishbones for the 'space' advantage.
NOW: WHY IN THE WORLD Honda wanted to give 2 Door RSX a FLAT REAR FLOOR ?? IT is almost STUPID!!! I was highly disappointed with the changed rear suspension on the Civic line & also RS-X. Why in the world soembody wants a rear flat floor where nobody would be seating most of the times ??
Also Civic's new advertizement showed a Women with 3 children in the back! (They would not fight as it has rear flat floor blah blah blah) A women with 3 children (in USA) would be looking at a minivan or atleast midsize sedan like Accord.
Even though Flat rear floor make a bit more sense on Civic 4 Door, It is a useless/stupid change for 2 door 'sporty' Civic or a sports coupe like RS-X.
Because they aren't going to do a totally different platform just for the RSX, just so it has wishbones. All the Civic based cars (I think Honda calls it the Global Compact Platform) have the new suspension (Civic, RSX, CR-V).
Don't be too shocked if the 2003 Accord has the same suspension as the Civic.
Also, have Civic, RSX, CR-V sales plummeted since they re-designed them? No, I don't think so. I'd still say the vast majority of people don't know and/or don't care about the great wishbone vs. strut debate.
With larger Civic Honda needs larger Accord. Many people would buy Civic and save $4000 and get better fuel economy. Hope Accord never becomes ugly and feels small like Passat.
The Civic does not feel as roomy as the Accord! I have been in many 2002 Honda Civics and many 2002 Honda Accords, and the Civic is still not as roomy, to me as my 1992 Honda Accord DX, and the new Accord is a great deal roomier than my Accord.
A woman with 3 children may already have a minivan in the family - no need for two of them.
It sure would be nice if they still made the civic wagon though. I guess they consider the CRV to be that car, but it does not handle well enough for me(already have a minivan, and would want my second car to be more fun to drive), and uses too much gas (esp. compared to the Civic).
Re wishbones vs. struts. My minivan has double wishbones on all 4 corners (1996 Isuzu Oasis - 1st gen. Honda Odyssey) but that doesn't mean it handles better than a Porshe Boxter which has 4 Mcpherson struts (though it does handle better than any other minivan)
It is overall suspension setup that matters more than type of suspension used - even though one type of suspension may generally be better than another.
Have not rode in new Accord or Civic. Sat in many of each at car show where Civic felt large as Accord. All sedan comfortable for only 4 people. Civic and Accord more comfortable than Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick, Mercury, Ford, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Dodge, Pontiac sedan. Dont like looks of 2002 Camry, Avalon, Corolla. Prius more comfortable than other Toyota sedan. Echo feel too cheap.
Civic retains its 3-link rear suspension, and it is still a double wishbone setup. They didn't remove two of the three links going from the old generation to the new. Honda calls it reactive link double wishbone. The only difference is that they made one of the trailing links more compact to push back the rear seat, not to get a flat floor.
Looks like Honda engineers like to keep themselves busy. Back in 1996, with the Acura TL launch, Honda introduced a new (global midsize) platform using 5-link rear suspension instead of using the existing 4-link setup used in Prelude/Accord. With '98 redesign, Accord moved to this platform, and gained that extra link (Prelude stayed on the old platform). 2003 Accord will probably retain the 5-links, but may still see some changes.
Machiavelli has already responded to your concern about flat floor in RSX. I do not see why it would be bad to have flat floor in any car, two doors or four. Every car using the platform would have it, regardless of the rear suspension. Civic, CRV and RSX use the better version of the global compact platform, now with Mcpherson struts/control link front and reactive (3) link double wishbone rear suspension. Lesser cars using the same platform (like Jazz) use a beam axle rear suspension, while still utilizing the flat floor.
Happened to talk to my friend at the dealership & according to him Accord V6 might go to 3.2 Liter displacement, also 4 cyl would be 2.4 Liter (sme from CR-V) with 170Hp & same EPA figure like 2002.
6 speed manual would be available on the Accord Coupe V6
Any insights on the possible interior design changes? I've got a 94 Accord and went to buy a 2002 and was rather disappointed by the change in driver compartment. I'm 6'4" and the way the console extends out from the dash leaves less than 1 inch between my knee cap and the corner. I'm afraid that even a small fender bender could send me off to the orthopedist. My older model has a flatter dash which leaves a more comfortable gap. Any renderings of the interior out there?
The Accord has more leg room and more width. I find the Civic to be cramped up front, and the center arm rest option is a joke. They offer the same little rest on the Hyundai Accent 4 door as standard equipment.
I think every ones first impression would be just the same as when the 98 models came out. You get so used to the older model and sometimes it's hard to accept the new one. But in due time you always fall in love with the new one. I bought a 2001 model for a good deal, even after I saw the sketches for the 2003 models. The 1998-2002 model is still a good buy IMHO. The styling is classy and I think Honda knows what they are doing. The sketches on the 2003 model looks better though than this pictures. I don't know what the Nissan Altima fans are talking about though when they say "look out Honda and Toyota" when Nissan is the one doing the catch up. I still think Honda and Toyota will lead the way. The Altima's interior feel really cheap when I test drove it. The center console needs to be redesigned. Take the cheap plastic out! The exterior looks nice and the power is nice. But that's all that it's got! I think for the quality of the new Altima they should only ask $13000.00 - $16,000.00 tops, not $19,000.00 plus for the S version. The Accord has more to offer than the Altima. The Camry is also very nice inside and out, it's just too expensive. Overall, the Accord is a best buy!
I've never heard of a car with 240hp topping out at 16k. That seems highly unfeasible/unlikely to me. For 16k you get a loaded Civic, or a base Accord, not a 240hp loaded mid-sized car. Big difference.
I agree that Honda and Toyota are near top, but they don't seem to be moving forward and everyone else is making leaps and bounds. I love Toyota(hate Honda), but both are cutting corners etc. I recently bought a Toyota and it just isn't what I was used to. I've heard the same about Honda.
I heard a sports caster say something about Tiger Woods. He does very well against today's competition, but today's competition is quite lacking compared to yesterday's golfers. That is the same way I feel about Honda/Toyota. But the difference is the competition is getting better while Camcord isn't (take the Altima as an example). There are way too many options to consider in today's market than to be blinded by Honda/Toyota's *perceived* benefits... I say that while being the owner of a Toyota, but I have learned the error of my ways!
Also, from the way people talk about Hondas, you'd think that a 5th year model Accord would have near zero problems, period. Give the Altima 5 years, and see where it stands But to put everything back in perspective, Honda is not infallible (neither is Toyota), its just another auto maker.
6 speed in the v6? keep dreaming. in '98 and '99, people wanted a 5 speed with the v6. now nobody cares. most of them bought the auto, and some bought a solara. i'd rather have a more powerful 4cyl...something like 170hp would work for me. a turbocharger would make you forget all about the v6. as for a flat rear floor, that sounds great. and as for struts vs bones, as long as it handles well, it shouldn't matter.
I'm sorry, I was being sarcastic about the Altima's price. Realistically, there's no such thing as a $16,000 240 HP vehicle out there. I just wish there was. Heck, if the Altima's price go down a couple of notches for the V6 top of the line SE, I'd probably buy one. I'm just saying that it is rediculous that the price of an Altima is almost the same as the Maxima. Honestly, would you pay $19,000 plus for a POS S version of the Altima? I don't have that kind of $$$ to burn on a car that feels so cheap. Maybe they designed it that way so that buyers will opt for the more expensive SL or SE version of the Altima. If that's the case, I'd rather buy the Maxima. Better yet, just buy a base Accord or Camry for comparison with the S version Altima and you'd be better off.
The Accord EX-V6 6 speed manual has been confirmed by Honda already. It will be available in the coupe and will also be offered with a navigational system. Dealers have the colors now.
This is old news . . . Probably Honda will watch response before we see the same in the sedan.
I saw a white 2003 Accord today in Columbus, central Ohio. There is a big inside change and the interior is as plastic as the 2002 CRV. The dashboard is kind of similar as that of the Acura 3.2TL and very different from the 2002 Accord. Furthermore, no gated automatic shifter will be available. The overall length of the car looks shorter but very sporty compared to the current generation. It has a big nose but a shortened trunk.
Did the Accord have a 3 sopke steering wheel like the RSX or a 4 spoke like the current generation? What do you mean by the gated auto shifter? Do you mean that there is no manual shift function?
The most interesting sub-plot concerning the new Accord is - Does it keep the enthusiasts happy and stick with double wishbones, or does it follow the Civic and go with struts? I'm guessing the average person doesn't care, and in fact would prefer the flat rear seat floor in a sedan, and so it might have struts. We'll see soon enough.
Does anyone know if the manual trans on the Accord will be available in August or September? I heard it may not be available until spring! Has anyone seen any recent picks of the Coupe?
The EX-V6 Coupe 6-speed manual will not be available until "spring" (Honda's words). All automatics will be 5-speed, the 4 cylinder manuals will be 5-speed also.
The Camry doesn't sell on power, but if it doesn't get more soon, it will not be seen as a very good value. 50HP is a lot to make up in one, even two years! How will Toyota bridge that gap? How will this effect the ES300?
Now the Mazda 6 is 30HP behind, and it's not even out yet!
The "Horsepower wars" are on, and Toyota and the rest better get their back up off the wall and DANCE!
It seems like the horsepower race is mainly between Honda and Nissan - the others are way behind already.
As for styling - what did you expect? Honda isn't going to do a radical redesign on the style of the #1 or #2 best selling car in America. Don't mess with success.
As a poster stated earlier, the Accord EXV6 has dual automatic climate control. The Camry doesn't offer it. The Accord has tilt/telescoping steering. The Camry doesn't offer that. The Accord will probably be cheaper. What I am dying to here are the Altima owners who will be complaining. This time last year everyone kept blaming the sub-par Altima interior on the new engine. Well, the new Accord has a optional V6 with 240 hp, and from the pics in AutoWorld Mag, the interior beats the heck out of the new Altima! I think I'll take a 2003 Accord LXV6. It's within my estimated budget (probably) and if I want a sunroof later, I can simply add one.
A 5spd automatic is available for both the I4 and V6. The Camry doesn't offer that either. Heck, the Camry, the Lexus ES300, GS300/430, RX300 and Toyota Avalon don't even have steering wheel radio controls!!! Talk about luxury.
One thing that really sells me on a Honda - if you go to KBB and look at a 2 or 3 year old Camry vs. Accord, make it apples-to-apples, same mileage, condition, etc... the Accord will be worth about $500-$800 more. I assume they were within a few $$ of each other when they left the showroom, the Accord might have even been cheaper. That's money in the bank.
The 2002 coupe definitely has more character than the 2003 coupe. I like the four door better than the new two door coupe. It kinda looks like a CL or a Saturn coupe. What do you guys think?
Thanks for posting that pict, but that is one that I have seen for quite a while. I was hoping to see one that has a profile of it. I definetely agree with you, but the pictures could be decieving. It really could look better in person. From what I have seen though, I totally agree that the current Accord Coupe looks better and I totally agree the new Sedan looks better than the current one. We will see.
If you page through the pics at autoweek there is a profile of the coupe. IMO, it looks like an old Ford Probe, but in another shot it looks much better. I'm going to wait until I see it in real life.
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
If it is the two picts I am thinking of, one is kind of a three quarter view from the rear and the other is a shot of the front end. These help, but I still have not gotten a good idea of how it looks. Will you give me a link to the ones you are talking about so that I can double check? I wonder if a lot of picts will come out on the29th?
If you click on the link 03 Accord Spy Photos inside Autoweek's website that I posted earlier you will see different angle pics of the coupe. I think they taped the rear lights, so it's really not that impressive. But with help of your imagination you can see that this car is rounder and no edges like the Acura's.
The Accord may have this and that over the Camry but you have to drive a train wreck to get it. A train wreck may be more stylish though, come to think of it
It will have to undergo quite a miracle to make the transition from spy pic to reality to be remotely pleasing to the eye.
But styling is subjective, so more power to you if you like it. It may be quite the deal.
Yeah, the Accord is real sporty, I forgot. Though it will certainly stand out in a crowd now.
To be serious, I think the 2002 coupe has style. But the front of the car in the spy pics looks like a Chrysler.
It seems to me there is no real reason to buy the 2003 over the 2002 other than its simply newer. 40hp on an Accord isn't enough reason. Although we shall see when they release some info on it. I wouldn't think the 40hp on the v6 or the 20 or so for the 4 would make much of a difference to the average Accord buyer though. I wouldn't buy an Accord for its hp, ability to corner, or its spectacular good looks. On top of that, the 2002 Accords can be had for a deal right now. Unless the 2003 is guaranteed to be more reliable, cheaper, better quality, and be a much better driving experience...
I'm wondering why buy the new one over the 02... bunk, get the '02, 5th gen, coupe looks pretty nice period, especially compared to the '03. You can't beat it.
Anyone have details or can verify that? That alone would increase performance greatly and with a new engine. Look out Camry. Here comes the Accord. I see MSRP for the EX v-6's for the first 8 months then a gradual let up. Just like last introduction. One should get $1000 off the 4 bangers pretty soon after introduction. Unless, Honda does a price game similiar to Pilot and Odyssey where price actually comes down. Do not expect that. Expect current price plus 1-2 % for good measure. Anyone order one yet. I have ordered one and put down $500 for first EX V-6 in Noble Green due early September. INKY
I'm predicting a 2-3% increase in msrp - due to increased steel costs, higher content, and the decline of the dollar's value compared to the yen.
I'll also guess that within 2 months of introduction, you'll be able to get any Accord for no more than $800 over invoice. The volume LX/AT model will probally be $400-$500 over invoice.
My office mate bought her 98 Accord EX-V6 in Sept of 1997 for $500 over invoice.
Yeah, I agree - the prices aren't going to go up drastically from the '02 models. Honda is going to want to regain the #1 sales position from the Camry, so you can bet a 'mainstream' LX with Auto will be very competitively priced with a Camry.
All the '03 Accord automatics will be 5-speed. All the 4 cylinder manuals will be 5-speed. The V-6 6-speed manual will be in the coupe only and available in "spring" (Honda's words)
Comments
NOW: WHY IN THE WORLD Honda wanted to give 2 Door RSX a FLAT REAR FLOOR ?? IT is almost STUPID!!! I was highly disappointed with the changed rear suspension on the Civic line & also RS-X. Why in the world soembody wants a rear flat floor where nobody would be seating most of the times ??
Also Civic's new advertizement showed a Women with 3 children in the back! (They would not fight as it has rear flat floor blah blah blah) A women with 3 children (in USA) would be looking at a minivan or atleast midsize sedan like Accord.
Even though Flat rear floor make a bit more sense on Civic 4 Door, It is a useless/stupid change for 2 door 'sporty' Civic or a sports coupe like RS-X.
Don't be too shocked if the 2003 Accord has the same suspension as the Civic.
Also, have Civic, RSX, CR-V sales plummeted since they re-designed them? No, I don't think so. I'd still say the vast majority of people don't know and/or don't care about the great wishbone vs. strut debate.
It sure would be nice if they still made the civic wagon though. I guess they consider the CRV to be that car, but it does not handle well enough for me(already have a minivan, and would want my second car to be more fun to drive), and uses too much gas (esp. compared to the Civic).
Re wishbones vs. struts. My minivan has double wishbones on all 4 corners (1996 Isuzu Oasis - 1st gen. Honda Odyssey) but that doesn't mean it handles better than a Porshe Boxter which has 4 Mcpherson struts (though it does handle better than any other minivan)
It is overall suspension setup that matters more than type of suspension used - even though one type of suspension may generally be better than another.
Looks like Honda engineers like to keep themselves busy. Back in 1996, with the Acura TL launch, Honda introduced a new (global midsize) platform using 5-link rear suspension instead of using the existing 4-link setup used in Prelude/Accord. With '98 redesign, Accord moved to this platform, and gained that extra link (Prelude stayed on the old platform). 2003 Accord will probably retain the 5-links, but may still see some changes.
Machiavelli has already responded to your concern about flat floor in RSX. I do not see why it would be bad to have flat floor in any car, two doors or four. Every car using the platform would have it, regardless of the rear suspension. Civic, CRV and RSX use the better version of the global compact platform, now with Mcpherson struts/control link front and reactive (3) link double wishbone rear suspension. Lesser cars using the same platform (like Jazz) use a beam axle rear suspension, while still utilizing the flat floor.
6 speed manual would be available on the Accord Coupe V6
I think every ones first impression would be just the same as when the 98 models came out. You get so used to the older model and sometimes it's hard to accept the new one. But in due time you always fall in love with the new one. I bought a 2001 model for a good deal, even after I saw the sketches for the 2003 models. The 1998-2002 model is still a good buy IMHO. The styling is classy and I think Honda knows what they are doing. The sketches on the 2003 model looks better though than this pictures. I don't know what the Nissan Altima fans are talking about though when they say "look out Honda and Toyota" when Nissan is the one doing the catch up. I still think Honda and Toyota will lead the way. The Altima's interior feel really cheap when I test drove it. The center console needs to be redesigned. Take the cheap plastic out! The exterior looks nice and the power is nice. But that's all that it's got! I think for the quality of the new Altima they should only ask $13000.00 - $16,000.00 tops, not $19,000.00 plus for the S version. The Accord has more to offer than the Altima. The Camry is also very nice inside and out, it's just too expensive. Overall, the Accord is a best buy!
I agree that Honda and Toyota are near top, but they don't seem to be moving forward and everyone else is making leaps and bounds. I love Toyota(hate Honda), but both are cutting corners etc. I recently bought a Toyota and it just isn't what I was used to. I've heard the same about Honda.
I heard a sports caster say something about Tiger Woods. He does very well against today's competition, but today's competition is quite lacking compared to yesterday's golfers. That is the same way I feel about Honda/Toyota. But the difference is the competition is getting better while Camcord isn't (take the Altima as an example). There are way too many options to consider in today's market than to be blinded by Honda/Toyota's *perceived* benefits... I say that while being the owner of a Toyota, but I have learned the error of my ways!
Also, from the way people talk about Hondas, you'd think that a 5th year model Accord would have near zero problems, period. Give the Altima 5 years, and see where it stands
This is old news . . . Probably Honda will watch response before we see the same in the sedan.
Does it keep the enthusiasts happy and stick with double wishbones, or does it follow the Civic and go with struts? I'm guessing the average person doesn't care, and in fact would prefer the flat rear seat floor in a sedan, and so it might have struts. We'll see soon enough.
Has anyone seen any recent picks of the Coupe?
http://community.webshots.com/album/44150265fKlFcS
Very conservative styling than the European version:
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=20241
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=17782
Enjoy Accord Fans!
The Euro version is supposedly coming to the U.S. as an Acura, slotted between the RSX and the TL in the lineup.
I have the shots of the coupe that were spy picts. from a long time ago. Is there anything new?
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Now the Mazda 6 is 30HP behind, and it's not even out yet!
The "Horsepower wars" are on, and Toyota and the rest better get their back up off the wall and DANCE!
As for styling - what did you expect? Honda isn't going to do a radical redesign on the style of the #1 or #2 best selling car in America. Don't mess with success.
What I am dying to here are the Altima owners who will be complaining. This time last year everyone kept blaming the sub-par Altima interior on the new engine. Well, the new Accord has a optional V6 with 240 hp, and from the pics in AutoWorld Mag, the interior beats the heck out of the new Altima! I think I'll take a 2003 Accord LXV6. It's within my estimated budget (probably) and if I want a sunroof later, I can simply add one.
I definetely agree with you, but the pictures could be decieving. It really could look better in person. From what I have seen though, I totally agree that the current Accord Coupe looks better and I totally agree the new Sedan looks better than the current one. We will see.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
It will have to undergo quite a miracle to make the transition from spy pic to reality to be remotely pleasing to the eye.
But styling is subjective, so more power to you if you like it. It may be quite the deal.
To be serious, I think the 2002 coupe has style. But the front of the car in the spy pics looks like a Chrysler.
It seems to me there is no real reason to buy the 2003 over the 2002 other than its simply newer. 40hp on an Accord isn't enough reason. Although we shall see when they release some info on it. I wouldn't think the 40hp on the v6 or the 20 or so for the 4 would make much of a difference to the average Accord buyer though. I wouldn't buy an Accord for its hp, ability to corner, or its spectacular good looks. On top of that, the 2002 Accords can be had for a deal right now. Unless the 2003 is guaranteed to be more reliable, cheaper, better quality, and be a much better driving experience...
I'm wondering why buy the new one over the 02... bunk, get the '02, 5th gen, coupe looks pretty nice period, especially compared to the '03. You can't beat it.
That alone would increase performance greatly and with a new engine. Look out Camry. Here comes the Accord. I see MSRP for the EX v-6's for the first 8 months then a gradual let up. Just like last introduction. One should get $1000 off the 4 bangers pretty soon after introduction. Unless, Honda does a price game similiar to Pilot and Odyssey where price actually comes down. Do not expect that. Expect current price plus 1-2 % for good measure. Anyone order one yet. I have ordered one and put down $500 for first EX V-6 in Noble Green due early September.
INKY
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
I'll also guess that within 2 months of introduction, you'll be able to get any Accord for no more than $800 over invoice. The volume LX/AT model will probally be $400-$500 over invoice.
My office mate bought her 98 Accord EX-V6 in Sept of 1997 for $500 over invoice.