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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,608
    Yes, KD, I agree the competition will keep things in perspective.

    I still point out that when I test drove the e90, the size seemed smallish to me but livable. The drive was nothing short of excellence from my past experiences. IOW, to someone used to porkers, the e90 was svelte

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,608
    but if a Suburban plows into you they'll never find you.

    BGDC would go under it no problem!

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,608
    habitat1, make sure you get six car garages. I am hoping you build your stable!

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Sports package with alloys
    Sport Suspension
    6 MT
    Grey/black leatherette
    Cold Weather Package
    PDC (didn't want it but it was off-the-lot)
    Lightning Blue with white roof/mirrors.
    Brushed Alloy trim

    If I had ordered, it would have two things not listed: LSD and Comfort Access.

    MSRP - first time i've ever done that - and I financed as the resale is so high I think I'll come out even anyway if I sell in 2 to 3 years.

    Still it's a total blast to drive and everyone of my friends that's driven it walks away totally impressed. They think it's going to cramped or ride rough or be slow. Instead they wind up doing far more than speed limit and proclaiming a desire to get one.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,041
    Congrats on your new "flingable" vehicle. Having owned an MGB & 2 Miatas, I think I know where you're coming from.

    How does the Mini compare to the A3? I was very impressed by a couple of A3 rentals I did in Germany a few years ago.

    At the moment, if I had to give up on my RWD-only mantra, the A3 would be my first choice.

    Have fun! As if. . .
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    "Seems like 1 series is the 3 series of old..."

    Bingo. Of course, we can attribute a bit of it to safety engineering I think, but the vast bulk (tee hee) of it is just pork. Extra space that nobody seemed to need before, and most likely nobody makes any significant use of now, expanding the class beyond its own boundaries.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,608
    The A3 weighs in at a HEFTY 3,660 lbs which is 66 lbs. heavier than a 335i. Heck, this is in entry-level class division of Heavy Weight Championship of theWORLD.

    Has Audi broken the rules here? I would disqualify this entry in this prize fight.

  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    isnt that car FWD? I thought we are anti FWD here on this forum? Is the mini excluded?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Tighter than our A3 and obviously much lighter with nearly similar power. The Mini feels almost like a BMW - just the wrong wheels are driving it. I'm sure I can hang out with it for a few years. I don't feel like I've left BMW so much as just side-stepped into a half-bimmer.

    A3 is easy to live with, by the way.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,608
    I know but the 3.2 weighs 3,660 lbs.

    link title
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    BG wouldn't have any interest in the 3.2 (I'm sure weight is a factor), but I was and am (especially with new lease rate), and all I can say is driving is believing. Audis seem to be routinely more hefty by class, but the selected running gear and its tuning more than compensate, IMO. Wheelbase and LOA play a role in the feel as well.

    Wonderful suspensions...
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,608
    WB1, I agree with the driving is believing since I have the 330xi and reflect your analysis of the A3.

    In terms of weight-management, I need to keep the gas at 1/4 tank to stay even close to a full-tanked 330i!

    BTW, BGDC, I have seen many Minis flying around the Nurburgring (on test vids). Great choice.

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The Mini feels almost like a BMW - just the wrong wheels are driving it.

    You're funny... starting to complain already.

    But that's cool, it's much better than having the "my car can do no wrong" attitude.


    BTW, if you don't mind me asking, what did you do with the 330 and the tires?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    You don't think 2700 pounds is portly for a car as small as the Cooper?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    After driving a 3600 lbs tank/BMW, it feels as light as a feather.
  • meateatermeateater Posts: 123
    My sentiments exactly. But I guess the Mini isn't an ELLPS.

    Interesting that a guy so pro-RWD opted for a FWD vehicle.

    Just shows to go ya.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Interesting that a guy so pro-RWD opted for a FWD vehicle.

    Does seem a bit odd.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    That's what it is. I needed a car to fill the void for a few years until either BMW releases a 1/2 series or I'm forced into returning to the 3 series (ZHP hopefully) when we start a family. I needed a car; I wanted something fun, small, maneuverable and a car with high resale. Nothing in the ELLPS was amusing me and the behemoth size was the main issue. I do not look forward to returning to a 3 series but once we have a kid I probably won't have any choice.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    "...and the behemoth size was the main issue..."


    "Ditto? Ditto, you provincial putz..."

    For my enjoyment, the 1 will have to arrive someday as a Touring, otherwise to a coupe I may go...
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Then maybe you need to visit/start the ELLPC forum.

    I, for one, love the cars in this comparo. I'm sure the guys over say, 5'11" and 190 lbs. do too. I'm 6'1' 215 lbs and don't fit into even the 328 or the G35 comfortably, let alone a BMW 1 or a Mini.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    Maybe you're shaped a little different...or maybe it's me :)

    I'm no giant (6'3” 260+) but I fit into almost everything...3 series, G35, Civic, Jetta, Audi TT.

    The only thing I can remember having trouble with was the previous generation Acura TL...My head literally stuck through the sun roof.

    The back seat is another story; but the driver's seat usually has enough room...for me anyway
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Geez, you guys make it sound like these cars are tiny. 10 years ago, these sedans were smaller than a modern-day Honda Civic.

    Were you all driving Buicks in the 90s?
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    Ivan, I've seen it stated several times that the average size of an American male is 5' 9" and 170 lbs. At 6" taller and 90 lbs heavier I'd say you're a giant among avg men. :P

    But I suppose this is like anything else - personal preference. Some of us like to wear our clothes looser, some like a snug fit, etc. So, maybe you like a tighter fitting car? Only you know for sure. For me, I'm with ontop - smaller isn't necessarily better.

    And if we go by that first sentence up there maybe that's one of the reasons these cars are getting bigger. Have you noticed nowadays how super sized SUVs and Trucks are more prevalent on the road? My guess is these cars continue to get a bit bigger because the majority of people are looking for that.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,608
    Fed, for me, I am used to U.S. sleds, so when I got in the ELLPS in 2006, to me, these cars are small. I wouldn't say tiny but I would have had a problem with a family in an E30 or E36. I know, in Europe these ELLPS's are monsters!

    However, this car has made a great difference in driving enjoyment.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Were you all driving Buicks in the 90s?

    LOL - it is amazing what the standard for "comfort" is today vs. a decade or three ago.

    Here's my first band new car in 1978:

    Datsun B210 GX

    I don't recall exactly, but I think the curb weight on that car was around 2,050 lbs. I believe it had around 72 horsepower, but I may be exaggerating. After 40k miles, I did "upgrade" the OEM steel wheels, hubcaps and whitewall tires to aluminum alloys with 165/70 13" Michelins. And early on, I outfitted it with a removable Nakamichi AC/DC cassestte deck, Fosgate Power amp/pre-amp, and Rogers studio speakers for the hatch. My car was the hit of every softball game and beach party for 3-4 summers before I got a real job.

    Tiny by today's standards, yet, in the spring of 1979, that car managed to make it from Pittsburgh to Baltimore and back, loaded with me (5'7", 145) and three fraternity brothers (5'10"/165, 6'/175, 6'2"/200) as well as 4 duffle bags in the hatch for a long weekend trip. And it still got close to 40 mpg on the highway using regular (as in "leaded") gas with a 4-speed manual.

    I proudly owned that no A/C, manual everything car for 8+ years and 101,000 miles. I paid $4,300 for it, brand new, including taxes. About $800 less than I paid in taxes alone for my 911S. And, not to get nostalgic, I had a heck of a lot of fun with that Datsun. Wish I had somehow kept it for posterity.

    A 2007 3-series is too small? That Datsun would fit in the trunk.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,608
    You sound like a true European! Here's my '78 ride:

    1976 GP


    Over 4,000lbs. of All-American STEEL!

    The Datsun AND 3-Series would fit in the trunk!!

  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    I'm 6'-even and between 185 and 195, depending on the season or fare offered over a given holiday weekend, with an inseam that's either 33 or 34 depending on who's measuring, and I find the current MYs of these cars rather oversized.

    I'm broadly assuming many here who think a CTS or G35 is right-sized are actually struggling with claustrophobia! :blush:
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