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that's the problem with American cars, they are always overpriced 10-30%. Someone said earlier Honda and Toyota overprice their cars 10-20%; that statement is crazy and nuts. If that is true, then let me revise my American car statement to overpriced 20-50%.
BMW also overprices things about 10-20%.
The horrific resale value of American metal is proof that the cars are overpriced to begin with, and then you can add the fact they always issue huge rebates.
I am on my second G sedan and couldnt be happier, but in a couple of years I wont have to worry about having a car seat in the back and would love to go back to a two door. I can't imagine driving a soft top year round. Any thoughts, rumors, etc. of what Infiniti may do would be great. Or suggest other cars.
They've been on the market for several years and already sold tens, maybe even dozens of them!!!
Funny. Going down the requirements checklist it seems to have it all. CUV, AWD, convertible, 4 doors, gas mileage.... isn't that the dream car? Err, I guess not.
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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Saw my first ATS a few days ago. Overall the car looks pretty nice, but wow - those little windows are like slits. Sort of like they Camaro-ized the CTS. I know we have higher side impact standards and such, but this driving in a deep bathtub craze really needs to stop, or we will just eliminate the windows and go to CRT displays inside.
Big peeve of mine to see how high the sills are on new cars. And speaking of convertibles, who wants a convertible where only the tips of your ears are above the doors?
I just have to laugh when I see someone driving with the top down these days, windows up and ball cap on. Might as well save the grief and buy a coupe.
A real convertible actually blows your hair around and you can rest your arm comfortably on door sill
I am looking at the A6 3.0 supercharger, Premium Plus with 19" Sport.
Glacier White with the Nogout Leather.
I have 15 months of payments on the TL to outright own the car.
Here is the obstacle, my wife, she wants us to keep the TL, only 24k miles with 4 years of ownership.
I am sitting on the fence with that new car itch.
With a pack of Camels or Marlboros tucked under a tee shirt sleeve.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
That said, I got some seat time in my sister's new '13 TL Advance. I forgot how good those cars are, too.
My independent mechanic told me a while ago...."if you're only going to keep a car 3-4 years, one of the German marques will do. If you're going to keep a car past 3-4 years, get a Japanese marque (he specifically likes Honda products). If you want a car that's cheap to maintain, get an American marque."
As you know, I'll pull the trigger on a new car on a whim. That said, in this part of the market, there are almost no bad cars. They all have their own personalities, and they all bring something just a little different to the party. But, they all perform, handle, ride, better than 98% of the market.
As much ballyhooing GM has trumpeted with the ATS, my encounters with it (albeit brief) wouldn't have me writing a check for one. It's too corse, it needs some serious tech debugging. And, if you can't at least line up body parts correctly in this part of the market, don't even bother coming to market.
nyc...fed...I'm with you guys on a convertible. If you don't have the sun on your head, and the wind blowing your hair every which way, what's the point of a convertible?
IMHO, when vehicles share "DNA", it usually means platforms.
Speaking of CRT displays, I believe back up camera's are less than useless and worthless in my view. People have been driving nearly a Century without issue and without back up camera's (at least the competent drivers).
I'd find a DASH CAM 1,000X times more useful and worthwhile than a back-up cam. There's so many bad driver's out there, the dash camera could be used on occasion in court (if needed), or to mail video to someone's insurance company.
Instead of red light camera enforcement, how about citizens' arrest tickets for left lane camping using dash cam video as evidence. I'll even show up in court to testify against a LLC that the video was taken by me, so that it isn't complete BS hearsay unacceptable evidence like is currently accepted by most lower corrupted courts for red light camera tickets. I think it would be worth my time to get these camping people prosecuted.
Even better, let's pass a law that 30% of the proceeds of the revenue generated go to the video taker to make this even more worthwhile; I'm sure that's a better deal for the city than Red-flex gives them!!!!
Pretty soon left lane campers would be eradicated and traffic would flow smoothly 90% of the time; even at rush hour except in DC and LA.
Briefly when I was 16, I had a bugeye sprite, now talk about wind in your face and hair blown around. I ended up selling it and bought a Datsun Roadster had that until my senior year in HS.
Was it a 1600 or a 2000? I love Datsuns from that era -- drove a '68 1600 sedan (later to become the 510) and a '73 510 for many many miles.
Good times.
I dont know, maybe or maybe not- I will let the Forum know.
A "while ago" that might have been good advice but I own two German cars more than a decade old that continue to give reliable day to day service with fewer problems than I'd expect from any car of that age. I know several other people in the same boat so it's not just a sample of two.
Thew belief that German cars become hideously expensive to run after a few years/miles works to the advantage of those who buy them when they're over 4-5 yrs/o. They're fantastic values if you buy carefully.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I like both the TL and my Audi. There are just certain things that the TL does better than the Audi (or my previous BMW 3 for that matter). Headlights is just one of them. I know it's the new "bling" trend to have LED lights. But, I've yet to see any car beat the illumination of the TL's HIDs. The TL's sport seats are more comfortable than those in my S4 (which has really good seats, too).
My money....given a choice? I would keep the TL. The A6 (and my S4) is a great car. Is it $15K+ better than the TL SH AWD? I'd be hard pressed to say so.
I've decided that I've hit the cross roads of diminishing returns with the $50K-$55K price point I've been hovering in (which is where the Audis and BMWs seem to hit).
Again, it will be a couple of years, but I'll probably return to Acura after they announce the new TL. Strong rumor that it will be a 2015....right when I'm ready to buy. Also, assuming it still has a 6 cyl and is at least as good as the present TL.
The sales guy was one of the nicest I had met at any of the three Audi dealership in Fairfield County CT. I almost swapped it out at that point but my value side got the better of me- we'll see about that.
I agree with you on the headlights, I swapped out the fogs for HID's, you can see me coming from a mile.
I will probably wait until year end to start dibbling again- hopefully the markets keep doing what they are doing now.
There are days when I jump onto 95 and have been able to set my cruise at 80 mph. Traveling at that speed, I've been passed (easily) by a 2003 V6 Camry, a 2004 Suburban just to name a few. At the same point, I've passed by Aston Martins, 911 Cabs, & even Ferraris with my cruise set at 65 mph. All of us here enjoy what we drive.
Are there differences between a TL SH AWD Advanced & the 5er, E350, or A6? Absolutely. The Germans don't just charge more because they can. I'm not going to say one is more durable or reliable than the other. But if the Acura is 8/10ths of the comparable German Sedan, I'll be on my way to pick up a TL.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
This is actually one reason that I am so addicted to TQ.
I can typically find a portion of any drive [ and an excuse ] to use WOT – even if only for a few seconds.
To me, that is ‘a rush’ – and I enjoy it.
High absolute cornering limits just mean I have wide leeway in my [ um, enthusiastic ] street driving.
- Ray
Admitted TQ addict – and no desire to reform . . .
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I'm convinced 90% of the problems and perceptions people have with older German cars' costs as they age is from previous owners that skimped on maintenance, or from incompetent mechanics having worked on them.
If it is properly maintained, I can't see any problems that will be too costly with most German cars.
That said, I think Audi is doing a better job with quality control than BMW or Mercedes lately, seen CR recently?
NYC....we all like what we like. Cars in this class are hard to find fault with. It comes down to the different flavor you prefer.
Out of all the performance cars we've been talking about, which one do you think have best sound for music?
Trailing behind those two would be the Harmon Kardon system in the BMW and Mercedes, then the Bose system in the Cadillac.
I haven't heard the system in the Infiniti for a long while, so I can't really comment on it. I don't remember it being particularly good or bad.
I also haven't heard the Levinson system in the Lexus for a long time, either. But again, compared to the others above, I don't recall it being a stand out.
By the way, all these systems mentioned above are extra cost options on all of the cars they come in.
I had a MKS as a rental a couple of weeks back and it had their top of the line system with the THX and was impressed for a none big name connected to it that it sounded as good as it did. Never been impressed with any of the BOSE systems in any car, and the Levinson system in the Lexus is excellent.
This exactly!
Well, I don't know about public roads... I have my fun, but I save the absolute limits for the track. I only visit the track a handful of times a year.
They didn't think Lexus would be the best sports sedan until they "dove into the twisting, climbing, kinking, plunging roads around Leakey, Texas" with it.
On BMW they said: "Still good at everything, no longer the best at much".
They said that Cadillac "the most flawed", but they liked the handling.
So, is the world almost turned upside down. Cadillac better than BMW in handling, but more work to do with other things. So, where will BMW be in next comparo in a couple years.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
That's my impression as well. BMW is losing sight of the fact that they'll never build a better Lexus than Lexus can. As a result Lexus is no longer chasing BMW, it's the other way around.
Thanks to the way the Euro is tanking, BMW, Audi and Mercedes have an opportunity to put more content and value into the cars. Let's hope they take advantage of this. How about BMWs with spare tires, temp gauges, shift levers that don't look like keg taps and good old "go flat" tires?
Right now the biggest knock seems to be the new electric steering. I imagine that will be improved over time. I'm old enough to remember how awful the first hydraulic assist steering was but over time it got a lot better.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Thanks for the info on car stereos. I know the upper end B&O stereos on upper end Audis are better than the one in my S4. But, they're also big buck upgrades, too. Haven't heard the B&O in either the A6 or A8.
Still, hard to beat the ELS in the TL.
Thanks all for keeping this forum entertaining!
Follow up q.
Do you think the local dealers will one day lock you out at some pt?
Still, hard to beat the ELS in the TL."
A little OT Graphicguy, but I finally am able to return the favor on your "Dishwalla" recommendation a couple years ago. Its become one of my favorite albums of all time. Thank You.
So... If you havent heard it, check out "Random Access Memories" by Daft Punk. I know, Daft Punk - but I promise its not what youre expecting. Fantastic writing, legendary intrumentalists, and top notch production. It will sound incredible in the car!