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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • You need to take into account that the 1987 Accord was also a compact while the 2007 model falls on the large end of the mid-size market (with the 2008 officially jumping to a full-size). Likewise 1987 was the last year the Corolla was produced as a subcompact. Even discounting the huge shift in brand perception over the past decades, you can't make apples to apples comparisons when the vehicles aren't even in the same class anymore.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,605
    Here is some news. I could not tell if some of the models will be applicable and perhaps some of the future names could be part of the ELLPS category. It just goes to show the continued muddied direction that boggles the mind!

    If you liked alphabet soup as a kid, make an appointment at your Cadillac dealer for three to five years from now. That's because GM has recently trademarked several new nameplates for Cadillac, and so far we're worried and a bit confused.

    At present, these names are trademarked in Europe and Canada. However, companies often register their trademarks in foreign markets first, and later in the United States.

    This potential new naming system is undoubtedly complicated, but we will try and lay it out in the simplest way possible. So far, GM has trademarked:

    * DT7
    * CT6
    * CT5
    * BT3
    * AT1
    * DTX
    * CTX
    * BTX

    We suspect the numbers in each name signifies each vehicle's overall size.

    The "DT7" might be the eventual DTS replacement, for example. This large, luxury sedan may end up riding on the Zeta chassis in a few years time.

    The CT6 and CT5 would be some kind of variants of the car we currently know as the CTS. One possibility is the numbers indicate two possible wheelbase lengths. On the other hand, we can't rule out the "5" and "6" being the current CTS sedan and forthcoming CTS coupe.

    The BT3 could represent the next-generation BLS. This vehicle would probably be on the Epsilon II chassis, however, with GM's plans on the new Alpha chassis being unclear, there is always a possibility BT3 could be an Alpha car.

    The AT1 is still a bit of a mystery. That said, it's a safe bet that this would be a small car that is definitely based on the Alpha chassis GM is currently developing. Could it be a competitor to the BMW 1-Series?

    The "X" cars will more than likely denote crossover or wagon vehicles. However we'd also leave open the option that the "X" indicates all-wheel-drive models.

    If the crossover assumption is true, the DTX is probably the vehicle currently known as the BRX. The CTX could be the forthcoming CTS wagon, and the BTX remains a mystery.

    Of course, the all-wheel-drive option is also a strong possibility. The CTX could be an AWD CT6 or CT5, while the DTX would be an AWD DT7, and so on.

    Obviously there is one glaring part of Cadillac's lineup not mentioned here — the Escalades. Some might suggest that the "X" vehicles we just talked about are in fact the trucks. However, given what our sources say, we don't think that's the case.

    That leaves a few options. One being that GM just hasn't gotten around to coming up with new names. Another being that the true Cadillac trucks will not be part of this new scheme and continue on with regular names. With the marketing power the Escalade name carries, we think the latter is more likely.

  • vic10vic10 Posts: 188
    Am I the only one who thinks this new branding (Cadillac is not alone) is just a stupid gimmick? I miss Coupe de Ville, Sedan de Ville, Park Avenue, Bonneville, to name a few..... GM probably hired a consultant to come up the new designations, paid six figures or more. I'm sure there were better places to spend the money....
  • No, those names link back to cars most associate with low quality and poor performance. Those names would hurt the brands more than help them.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,605
    Good point but even the Japanese brands were junk in the '60's. At least the name Camaro, Bonneville, Grand Prix meant something back then. After that era, the US traded with Japan on quality and became junk.

    I will keep an open mind for the future but for me, there is still bitter reminders of pain associated with Cadillac. The CTS is progressing but I just can't like the looks.

  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I agree 100%, those were bad cars for years. :cry:
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Nick! Welcome back! :)
  • Does the '08 TL have a heated steering wheel ??
  • pv2pv2 Posts: 37
    I have an '07 TL-S and it doesn't have a heated steering wheel and I haven't seen any ads for '08 that show it. Suppose it could be though...
  • Let's heated steering wheel but it STILL has a cassette deck.
    Honda really missed the boat on this one. Get the stupid tape deck outta there and give us another feature that is a little more " high end " . Just MHO !!
  • pv2pv2 Posts: 37
    Well, you may not be old enough to have a collection of cassettes with material that's not available in CD format. I do and it's valuable to be able to play some of these from time to time. For younger folks there's an iPod port in the console; a feature that very few luxury cars had last year.
  • Uh, rip it. The desire to haul around tapes or CDs makes zero sense to me.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,062
    Yes casette player! Child o' the '70s, I still have quite a casette collection... Evil Wife's RX300 has a casette player, too. Rock on!

    Heated steering wheel wouldn't be a bad idea, though...

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    What's a cassette player?

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,062
    Like an 8-track player, man. But groovier! ;)

    Peace, Love, Dove.

    I am old. :sick:

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    It hasn't been very long ago I found some 8 track tapes in the top of a seldomly-used closet. I pitched them. :blush:

    P.S. They were quadrophonic tapes, too!! :D
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Can't remember the last time I listened to a cassette, My wife, though, devours audio books. Her source for these is our local library, which has only begun to migrate its collection from tape to digital formats. So for at least the next couple of years, the cassette player in her car will get a workout.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,062
    Dude: Two words re: your 8 tracks: E. Bay. Chicks in New York are paying big bucks for those things!

    Think I'll pop my CSN & Y "Four Way Street" casette into the TL's 8 track player tonight...

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • Some feedback from some tall drivers would be appreciated. I am 6'2" and want to hear how comfortable it is. I currently drive an Infiniti M35x which has nice leg room but I am looking for something that handles better.
  • Bro-in-law is 6-1 and mostly legs. He owns and loves an e46 sedan (much smaller inside than the e90). Good buddy is 6-2 and he drove my e46, e90 and R56 mini...loves them and believes he has plenty of room.

    That said, there are different 6-2s in this world. Some are 6-2 and 200lbs, others are 6-2 and 250. That could make a difference. :)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,605
    I am 5' 10" and there is loads of room for the front seat for you IMO. You will not be disapointed in the 335xi. I have the 330xi and it is the best handling sedan I've ever driven.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Like an 8-track player, man. But groovier! .... I am old.

    If you think you are old, perhaps the fact that my first serious stereo system included a reel-to-reel tape player will make you feel better.

    And my first car stereo, in a 1978 Datsun B210GX hatchback, included an underdash mounted Nakamichi 350 removable cassette player/recorder (120/12 volt), a Fosgate pre-amp and amplifier under the passenger seat and two JBL home sized 3 way speakers in the back hatch.

    One can debate ELLPS all day long, but I can assure you, parked at the local beach on a Saturday night, that B210GX was a far better "performance" vehicle than my 911S, if you get my drift.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,605
    Wow...Datsun...Entry Level Beach Machine...awsome.

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "if you get my drift."

    Would that be sand drift? :shades
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,062
    I think I can read between the sheets lines... :blush:

    We had a reel to reel in our home, too. But not part of my system, was my Dad's.

    My first: '71 Saab 99. AM radio. Later upgraded, birthday present from Dad, to include and under-dash Radio Shack casette player. I believe that the first tune to eminate from that legendary audio player was The Doobies, "China Grove." I continue to be old... Better than the alternative!

    Yeah, Saab 99 and Datsun B210GX: Chick magnets!

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,605
    Here's some recall info for the CTS owners out there...I'm glad no pictures were on the site!

    General Motors has announced the recall of 276,000 vehicles. The recall is due to a faulty pinion seal, which can cause fluid leaks. The recall affects the 2005-07 Cadillac CTS, CTS-V, SRX, STS and STS-V; 2006-07 Pontiac Solstice; and 2007 Saturn Sky.

  • Getting in your quota of domestic-bashing for the week? You've been on a run at Cadillac lately. ;)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,605
    Sorry for the bashing....years of sub-par offerings have taken their toll on me. I will make a resolution in the New Year to give Caddy a break.

    We could use some feedback from owners here on their experiences, however. I must admit there is a new passion to compete with the CTS.

    Happy holidays and Best Wishes to ALL.

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,062
    Just the facts... Not a bash. While it appears that GM is beginning to produce some worth(ier) products, this kind of recall just reinforces that last 30+ years of GM "quality."

    All mfg.'s have recalls and quality issues. It's just that the domestics have a streak going that, while hopefully slowing down, continues... If, instead of pouring millions of $ into the ad campaign that "Quality is Job 1," Ford had spent that money on improving quality, who knows???

    And, while I remain really ticked off at the domestics (because, there is no doubt in my mind that GM/Ford/Chrysler could build world class cars. In fact, in Europe I think that they do), I'm not a basher (well, certainly not as much as I used to be...!)
    Hey,my last car was a Chrysler 300M, really enjoyed it. Some initial quality issues taken care of under warranty. No issues outside the warranty period, but still being a Chrysler I wasn't going to keep it too long out of warranty... Also, build quality was certainly less than spectacular. But, still enjoyed that car! And, I'm considering a (used) Caddy XLR as a toy. But, the interior far from reflects the price and, well, it's a GM... :P

    My current ride, assembled here in Los Estados Unidos, is certainly screwed together to much higher tolerances than the Chrysler. No issues, other than a couple of rattles, at 33k+ miles.

    So anyway, Happy Holidays to all. Gotta find all the receipts for the gifts that don't fit the Evil Wife. :sick: (Luckily for me, they're too big!!!)

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

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