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Glad you are enjoying your ride Sweeney - now you see what us European aficionados find appealing about these cars!
I plan to wait until the 2015s are out (TLX and Maxima) to seriously car shop, but I was out of town today and stopped by an infiniti and an acura dealership to just check out their cars. Not to test drive them, but was interested in the ease of entry/exit (a very important issue for the wife) and the interior appearance. Infiniti Q50 - nice that the passenger seat elevates! I think wife may be able to get in/out without any difficulty. It was a base model and I thought the interior was fine in spite of the vinyl (I would pay the extra for leather). It's been awhile since I looked at an Altima, but I don't think the Q50s interior was any nicer (maybe not even as nice) than the top of the line Altima. I also didn't understand why there was a spare tire taking up such a large portion of a small trunk in a car that has run-flat tires. But I realize the idea behind the Q50 isn't a "nice interior". I had read a number of sites that talked about an odor in the Q50 when left in the heat. I looked at one on the showroom floor (not in the heat) and didn't detect anything. It's a car I could own.
Then to the acura dealer just for a look. Looked at the TL with tech package on the floor. I was not impressed. I hope the TLX has a nicer interior. I thought the leather surfaces were nice, but I thought the materials used elsewhere on the interior were pretty cheap - a lot of hard plastic! The passenger seat elevated which was nice to see, but it seemed that in elevating the passenger seat it would be a bit harder to get in and out (harder than the Q50). I think it was the layout of the dash that forced me to move the seat all the way back to get it in that may make it hard for my wife to get in/out. Will wait until seriously shopping and have the wife try it out in the TLX. I am no fan of dealerships adding things to the car and this particular dealership adds about $3,000 to each sticker. I may be off by the individual numbers, but it was $500 for theft marking (if someone steals my car I don't want it back!), $700 to wax the car and spray the interior with scotch guard (I prefer turtle wax ice sealant and my own scotch guard - about $15 for both - and unlike the high school kid working for them that doesn't care about my car, I will do a good job
and not miss anything), $750 for wheel locks, mud guards and a rubber mat in the trunk (a mat I wouldn't want in my car) and some other overpriced stuff I wouldn't be interested in and wouldn't pay for. I would pass on the car before paying for any of those things.
If I had to choose between the two, it was a no-brainer. It would be the Q50. I don't think I would even be interested in the TL. But once the TLX and maxima are out I'll seriously shop. Just one person's opinion... the guy that's going to pay for it. Not trying to step on anyone's toes or insult anyone. My wife is most interested in something that not everyone has. We bought a Toyota venza in 2010 and that was one of the reasons for purchasing it (as well as incredibly easy entry/exit for her). The people two doors down from us bought the same green venza. At church, we have 4 green venzas and 1 white venza (ours and the white one are the only 6 cylinders) and 3 of the green venzas (1 of which is ours) park side by side at the church (handicap parking)!
wayne21: I very much enjoyed most of the experience of owning an 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD Advance. I had added the rear parking sensors and the "factory" splash guards to the car and I, to this day, call my TL, my "Honda S4" or my "Acura S4" -- the car must've come with 3-bent wheels, which may be the reason I thought the brake rotors were warped and had them turned three times (all under warranty).
Once the wheels were replaced (with a 50% credit from Acura), the car was smooth and the brakes didn't chatter or feel warped in any way.
I got the idea to call the TL my "Acura S4" not from an original thought, but from an Automobile test report where the S4 and the TL were compared even though the report observed most folks would probably NOT cross shop the two cars (they were some $11,000 apart, too -- the Audi was more expensive, of course).
I got tired of the Acura feeling about 90% of what I had hoped it would be -- which is actually a compliment considering I was comparing it to a car that was about 25% more money.
In any case, my Audi dealer (who is also an Acura dealer, go figure) made me a deal I couldn't refuse once he found out I had ordered a new Lexus IS350AWD F-Sport. Bought out the Acura lease (less than a year to go as I recall) and gave me a discount of 6% off the sticker of a new S4 configured exactly as I wanted it.
At the same time, my wife's Infiniti (2011 FX) was also coming off a 39 month lease and, yes, you guessed it, the Audi dealer (also an Acura dealer) is also an Infiniti dealer and once they got wind of my wife's tap dancing with a new BMW X3, made her an offer on a new Audi SQ5, that she couldn't refuse.
During our shopping adventure, we test drove the daylights out of all the usual (and some unusual) suspects.
I oh so wanted the Q50S/AWD to be the "it" car for the 2014 MY. It was good, maybe almost very good -- but for the money that I had to pay for the 2014 S4 I ended up with, I couldn't do it. BTW, probably not gonna make any friends, but I think I'd rather have the Q50/S than the 3 serires BMW we tried.
In any case, I want to be supportive of your pre-decision to go with the new '15 TLX SH-AWD, the Acura's can still make (for me) a pretty good value case, even if they are kind of an "S4 lite."
Thank you, markcincinnati. I'm looking forward to the TLX coming out. Our neighbor just bought a BMW 330i with sport package. We alternate driving when we go out together and my wife doesn't like the car because it sits too low, rides too rough (rigid) and she thinks the interior is cheap (leatherette). I have owned a number of European cars (two while stationed there and two while living in the US) and I swore I'd never own another (frequent and high maintenance costs). We've been taking a lot of trips and will get serious about buying when we return from our trip to Maine in August. I think we're leaning toward Q50, TLX, maxima or murano, but my wife is likely to throw a curveball and pick something totally different. It is good to get honest feedback (educated) from people who own these cars, though.
The dilemma seems to be that nothing gives the passion of an Audi or BMW, but then there's the maintenance and repair costs if you keep the car a long time. With Acura you get Honda reliablity and 80-90% of the experience. I had an Audi and loved it but got rid of it sooner than most any other car. I have my Acura at 140K and it's been very reliable but I still miss the Audi...
Just a FYI, your neighbots BMW is not a new one, since they do not have a 330i in the current line up.
Maybe it's a 335. IDK. But I do know it's a 2014. They bought it off the showroom floor and it now has 1,200 miles on it after 2 months.
The words reliable and durable do give my wife and me pause -- but, gulp, we went ahead and bought our first car EVER, the SQ5. I leased the S4, but with the intention of buying it off lease -- we'll see how the word durability holds up to time and miles.
With respect to reliability, however, I would have to say my European cars have not lacked reliability, but the longest I ever kept one was 66,000 miles (a 2005 Audi A6), so I am probably not the poster boy to tout European reliability.
My negative reliability experiences all have had to do with American cars -- and mostly Chrysler cars, at that. The thing is, as "unreliable" as the American cars proved to be, well, it was pretty close to impossible to KILL one of them -- so I guess I would say I've had unreliable, yet durable cars -- and I thought, at one point, "why can't I have both?"
Sit down: Then I bought a brand new AMC "American Eagle" -- my first AWD car (pre Audi, if you can believe it -- but I am, after all 62 years old). Holy cow, talk about a rolling pile of junk -- if it wasn't welded on, it fell off. The brakes were "same day" affairs -- but the thing had a plaid cloth interior and a really cool steering wheel (leather wrapped). And, hey, it WAS AWD (I assume, after all, it was a Jeep with an AMC Concorde body mashed on the frame) and it would go where no one has gone before in all kinds of weather. This was pre-trail rated, but -- idiot that I was -- I took it soft roading and had no fear going at least a little bit off road, too.
Taking it into the dealer was a real treat, too -- something was always needing to be salved with money. I couldn't wait to be able to afford an Audi -- got my first FWD one in 1977 a 1978 5000.
Anyway, I guess I am at a point where I really do expect, nay, demand both reliability and durability -- I get your desire for the same and hence your conclusion to go Acura or Infiniti.
I'll echo, somewhat, the above statement by quoting my wife who I asked "why not get another Infiniti -- the thing has been trouble free?"
Her reply: "Infiniti ain't got no soul."
In short: "Cutty says 'e can't hang!" (Airplane -- jive talk scene)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jive
Told you I'm old.
Durability kicks in well after the warranty expires; the truly durable cars are owned by people who eventually get tired of not being able to find replacement parts because the car has been out of production for 10 or 15 years. My Datsun 510 was one of these, so I ended up with a Miata. Not such a bad outcome.
This is a concept lost on the majority of people who post here (or anywhere else).
I also had an audi 5000 and I spent a small fortune on mine. I bought it used (2 years old) when I first went to Ramstein Air Base Germany. It didn't have a lot of miles on it when I got it and it didn't have a lot of miles on it when I got rid of it, but it spent plenty of time getting little things fixed. My second assignment to Germany saw me getting a 318i. Great little car until it learned that I'd pay for electronic repairs. It seemed to have a mind of its own and loved to have little things fixed. In the US, I had 2 diesel rabbits (made about 50 miles from my hometown) and perhaps because they were "diesel" they provided a license to steal when they went to the shop. Lots of little things that nickel and dimed me to death.
I won't even go into the UAW-built cars I have owned. I will not even consider buying a car built by the UAW. Since going Japanese, I have been most happy. Very reliable! I think I'm going to stick with Japanese. My wife wants to "step up" a notch and thus the look at Infiniti and Acura. She says the Avalon is for "old people", but I know better than to ask what age she is talking about. She turns 59 next month and I know she wants something before she hits 60. To be honest, I can handle just about anything (other than European or UAW-built), but will buy whatever she likes. I'm pretty sure it will be Japanese.
In 2007, when looking for a car for my wife to commute in, I was down to a Jetta and the Mazda6. I have a nephew that is a VW tech and not a lightweight tech either. He was recruited from a dealership in Maryland to a huge dealership in a midwest city complete with all moving expenses and and nice up front bonus. I had no idea that auto mechanics had these kinds of opportunities. Anyway, I asked him if it were him which one would he choose and he asked me how long I planned on keeping the car. I told him if we liked the vehicle we usually kept a car for 6-7 years. He told me without a doubt get the Mazda or I would be a frequent visitor to the repair shop after warranty and it wouldn't be cheap. I think with his many years of experience he knew what he was talking about and took his advice. Her car has been absolutely trouble free for 7 years and 109k. Not a dime on repairs, just normal maint. Oh, I take that back.....I've replaced two light bulbs.
I think people confuse reliability with normal wear and tear items. If people plan on keeping care for years then spending money on routine maintenance will cost. My E46 3 series had no issues of reliability but I also made sure the services were kept up to-date. Right out of College, I went to work for Sony, I had bought a MB 300SDL (used) as my business car (yeah it was an over kill) and ended up turning into a Demo car for Sony car audio products. I bought the car with 36K miles on and after 10 yrs sold it with 225K miles on it. That car was stone reliable, but it was taken in to the dealer for it's services according to the maintenance book that was provided by MB. Three issues with the car after 100K where covered by MB because of known problems would be the only black eye I had with the car. I believe if you follow the recommended service for cars you wont have issues, granted I lost count of how many window regulators had to be replaced on the MB,.
I, too, am a firm believer in preventative maintenance. In addition to what the factory suggests, I change oil & filter ever 4k miles, I flush the cooling system annually, I flush power steering fluid every 2 years, etc, etc, etc. I just got tired of little electrical things constantly being in need of repair, windshield seals leaking (VW), alternators going bad, relay switches going out, fan motor going out, etc.
That is the reason I love my 1995 Club Sport; over 19 years, 138,000 miles, and countless HPDE laps it has only needed a thermostat, a heater hose fitting, 2 LCABs, a few bulbs, one set of pads/rotors and a couple of serpentine belt idler pulleys. Aside from that I just service the car according to the SI system, except that I change the brake fluid every six months when the car sees the track. And of course it has consumed several sets of EHP tires...
I am never selling it.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I have an awful lot of respect for the UAW. At one point in my life, I was a UAW member. They work hard, long hours, with pride. Go to the Corvette factory or the Jeep factory, and you'll see that all day, every day.
Have they outlived their usefullness? Perhaps, particularly given their inability to affect the recent automotive crisis (not sure they could have if they wanted to).
I love BMWs (x3). I love Acuras (x3), too. They're my two favorite brands. BMWs have robust drivetrains with many times sublime suspensions. They can and do cost more to maintain over time (first four years are covered, which means you have to deduct those maintenance fees in your equation). After that, you keep that maintenance up, and they car be reliable over a long period of time. Those charges are more than what I've experienced on an Acura.
Acuras will be reliable, for a long period of time, with little in the way of maintenance (certainly much cheaper than after warranty maintenance on a BMW).
Can't say one is better made than the other. Both have high quality materials.
Both brands are great in my estimation....for different reasons. Choice is good, though.
My issue with the UAW is the 5 UAW-built vehicles I bought. Bought them while in the service (retired military) thinking it was patriotic. Now believe it was stupidity that took me back to purchase another disaster. I now look at it a bit differently and think of it like this: IF I dated a woman and it was a disaster I probably wouldn't want to date her four sisters one after the other. Perhaps wisdom does come with age.
You can't compare UAW cars from 20 years ago to the ones built today. I had my first Chrysler 200C 2015 model and was impressed with it. The new Chevy Impala as well as Malibu are lights years ahead in the cars they replace. The same with the Ford Fusion. Some of the blame really needs to go with the companies since they allowed those poorly built cars to leave the factory.
...psst - lots of the parts in your Japanese or European car are made by UAW employees....
I try not to think about it...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Reliability - since I was able to own my own car-let's rewind-
leased the 2000 acura integra gs-r, great car but again like most here it's a lease so didn't over due it with maintence besides oil and rotations, zero issues...it was a honda so bullet proof and prob the best car with an acura badge - certainly for under 25k at the time, (for those who will argue the NSX and 6 speed legend type 2 are better cars but cost thousands more)- this acura hit a snow bank and had its nose bent with its buggy eyes - was able to snap the plastic bumper back into place. The five speed throws I still have dreams about and the 8200? Rpm limit was something else, let's not forget about the start of v-tec, the v-tec where at 2 different levels you would get the umph. Man I should of bought that car, infact I extend the lease 4 extra months because I had no ideas what to get next.
03- wanted a 6 with a 6- few options - considered Cl, thing Mazda had the 6, wanted a 330 but inflated price, went with jetta gli. Car while very attractive with heated cloth sports seats and nice rims had issue ps with monsoon radio as it had a passenger volume bias that drove me insane at times. Went back to dealer 10 times in 3 years for non-oil changes. Car was purchased at a good deal and after 4 yr warrantee was up I was quick to exchange at good value for the loved Infiniti g.- at the end was very worried I would spend a lot of time at VW.
07- g35x - great car- sure it was now an auto, and a bigger sedan but with the power and yhe tech could not be beat at the time, considered many others but nothing compared at the cost. Had the car for 7 model years, went back for brakes, bought new tires and had a issue with the window seals- at the end I also had it back for a drive train belt that snaped on way to work, car was towed and work done at dealer for a cost around 200 bux. Best car you could own- but at the end I thought with the tech and power it was a good idea to move on.
Audi 13 s4 - 17k or so - I've owned for 3500 miles no issues yet- but knowing the costs and brand I will be monitoring and deciding around warrantee time on next move. So much tech, power and random items to worry about, I am not a person who wants to spend a lot on a car, and would rather downgrade then deal
with the added cost. Sorry about the long post-
The latest issue of Car and Driver contains a comparison test of the M235i and the 911. The 2er won, more as a result of the Bimmer's low price(relative to the 911, anyway) than it being the superior driver's car...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
RB, i usually defer to you on all matters BMW, but they compared the 911 to the M4 this month.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Sorry, that's what I get for writing and watching TV at the same time...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Well, I also know you're highly hung up on the M235i as well, so I can't say I'm too surprised.
Though, $80K for an M4 seems like quite an awful lot, but it was still more than $10 grand cheaper than the 911.
I think the M235i for, what, $50K seems to give you more bang for the buck.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
As I mentioned in another topic. my salesperson at my BMW dealer gave me a line on a 2011 135i M Sport with DCT and every option but SiriusXM. Plus it has Dinan Stage 2 software(IIRC). The guy is ordering a new M235i. I prefer the 1er- communicative steering and bags of power and torque.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
RB....have you tested an M235i, yet?
Not yet...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Other than the easy answer: Marketing or Money, why can't we upgrade our cars telematics and other electronic items?
I don't know if you know this, but Audis come with a pretty neat technology called "Audi Connect." It is provided at no charge for 6 months then it is simply shut off if you don't elect to subscribe to it (at $30 per month or the equivalent of $15 per month for a $450 lump sum payment).
Audi connect through 2014 MY's utilizes T-Mobile as a carrier to provide Internet connectivity and the ability to turn your car into a WiFi hotspot. Using Audi connect and apparently some neat software from Google, many desirable features are offered that are probably worth up to $15 per month on a month-to-month payment plan.
The thing is the carrier is T-Mobile. I can't begin to tell you how poor T-Mobile is -- and when it is at full-strength, it is 3G, very slow and often drops down to 2G, and, well, has very poor signal coverage here in our River City.
Sitting right on the showroom floor, however, is a new Premium+ A3 with 4G LTE AT&T Audi connect. It fires right up, goes about 3 or 4 times faster and is quicker to start-up to boot.
So Audi calls me and wants me to re-up my Audi connect plan -- I do offer $15 per month paid monthly, not $450 in one lump -- IF I can swap out the simm card or the radio itself, for a new carrier -- AT&T would be fine, so would Verizon.
Now I do understand that you may be loving T-Mobile if you're in certain areas of the US. But what may be good in Baltimore sucks in Cincinnati from a phone coverage, speed and drop-out perspective.
I've had Sprint, Verizon and AT&T (currently with AT&T since I got off my BlackBerry -- which was RIMM wasn't it?) The only service I've ever had any issues with is, you guessed it T-Mobile.
You'd think there is a little radio device behind the face of the dashboard that is, after all, a cell-phone. Just like when I got rid of the BlackBerry and went with the iPhone (and changed service providers), there ought to be a way to swap out the tech -- not buy a whole new car for pity's sake.
My friend has a private plane -- the thing must be a million years old, but "the avionics" are as current as can be just as the engine and the whole plane are "overhauled" annually to keep them "jus like new".
It seems to me that the electronic features of these cars hits the showroom floor one generation behind (sometimes more); wouldn't you win friends (and customers) and influence people if you could market your cars as having the ability to be kept current (at least insofar as some "electronic" systems are concerned?)
I probably answered my own question, the reason these systems are not "allowed" to be updated with new tech has to do with marketing and money not feature and function.
I'd re-up for Audi connect in a heartbeat -- but not with T-Mobile as the service provider; what are you nuts?
This is a fun video...
evo.co.uk/carreviews/performance_car_of_the_year_2012/287062/ecoty_bmw_m135i_vs_porsche_911_carrera_video.html
It seems to me that the electronic features of these cars hits the showroom floor one generation behind (sometimes more); wouldn't you win friends (and customers) and influence people if you could market your cars as having the ability to be kept current (at least insofar as some "electronic" systems are concerned?)
Funny that you would say that. I have read Q50 forums that complain about the technology problems - essentially "not ready to be marketed". 30 seconds for the backup camera to come one; no lines on the backup camera. Come on - I think these things are standard equipment on a Toyota corolla! My neighbors new BMW 335i sport package - he didn't get the backup camera because it was a $900 option. $900 option for a backup camera? I think most cars, even economy cars, come standard with a backup camera.
On the audi connect and the t-mob problem just another example of do you really need it? I let mine expire and have not missed it- my iphone does everything better. I say save the 15 bux. The bmw charging 900 bux for something should not be a surprise- they charge for everything. Think about the poor sob who thinks he got a deal on a 320 and lives up east. 40k with a nav and 180hp.
2014 Lexus RX350 doesn't have lines in the backup camera. I don't know if the Corolla does or not.
The camry I rented last month had lines in the backup camera.
There is probably a setting for the backup camera to show the guide lines or not. I know it's a selection for my Explorer.
No, the Lexus RX has no lines according to the dealer. They get a lot of questions on it and don't know why Lexus didn't include the lines on the RX. My friend has gotten used to not having the lines fairly quickly though so I don't think it's a big deal. The camera itself is good and the car has proximity alerts that beep when getting close to something in addition to the backup camera.
The 2012 TL I had, did have "lines" that would eventually pop up on the backup camera image -- but they did not articulate to track with the steering wheel -- these fixed lines were, in my opinion, worse than no lines.
My wife's FX, on the other hand had the "all-around-view" monitor -- now THAT's valuable tech and sadly is only available on BMW's and Audi's of a certain model and/or with a special (high cost) driver assistance package.
I did test drive the X3 with the top view monitor and it was about 90% as good as the Infiniti -- and of course was breathtakingly expensive compared to the Infiniti.
Interesting "opinion" from Bob Lutz in the current R&T magazine in response to a question posed to him essentially wondering why German cars are often held up as the zenith of automobiles.
Lutz essentially gave a response that said something like this: "German cars used to be at the top, and they still may be, but everyone else can do the same thing as the Germans these days."
I would assume Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche and VW, too, would beg to differ.
Although, there is a point there -- when C&D crowns #1 to a Lexus in a comparison article and the BMW 3 series is #2, you know the times they are (at least once) a changin'.
Still loving the S4 -- but every time I see the IS350 F-Sport, I do pause for a nano second -- there, I'm over it.
Happy Fourth, Campers
I have a 2008 TL and a 2013 MDX. The TL does not have lines but a fairly decent rear camera. The MDX has the "lines" and 3 views from 2 cameras. Fairly accurate and reliable. However, I still turn my head around to get a wider perspective on what's around. Now, my 2011 335i 2-door does not have a camera but an outstanding proximity sensor system. I find this system more reliable because it audibly warns me of every obstacle on the entire rear side of the vehicle when reversing. Comes in very handy when backing up into my tight garage.
Regarding the German vs. Japanese car comparison, both my Acuras are great vehicles and I will not trade them. However, my BMW gives me a smile each time I accelerate around a turn. The interior ergonomics are "different" and takes time to learn but the quality of materials and engineering is first rate. Take for example the windshield wipers. BMW perhaps makes one of the best wipers in the business. The rain-sensing wipers have never let me down even during driving in heavy rains at 80-90 mph because the vehicle is designed from the ground up to be driven fast. Same goes for my headlights which are bi-level xenon. With my poor eyesight and sensitivity to glare, the BMW is the only car I take out at night because they make absolutely wonderful auto-dimming exterior and interior mirrors. Even the seat belt assist (who I lovingly refer to by name) has an intelligence to it and does not extend if there is no one in the passenger seat, the door is not closed, or if the car is in Drive. These are subtleties and design elements that still make, in my opinion, the German cars stand out from Japanese counterparts.
Sorry for the long post.
I went to dinner last night with a friend in her new Honda civic. The backup camera has lines and the move to adjust to the steering wheel. When the right turn signal is pushed (or when pushing in on the end of the turn signal "pole") a camera comes on showing the right side of the car (i.e. blind spot) and that camera also has lines. Interesting that this technology comes standard in the civic. I believe it was a base civic as it had cloth interior and no satellite radio.
It must have been a Civic EX which does come with cloth seats and Honda's Lanewatch. back Up Cameras are standard on ALL Civics.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
That's sort of my point. If Honda can put these features on an 18,000 car, is it asking to much for an "luxury" vehicles to have this as standard equipment?
That's sort of an ongoing discussion here. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Do you value the "luxury" or the "performance?" Are you looking for the perfect blend of both? For $35K (MSRP) you can get an Accord Touring with every single bell, whistle, & piece of latest technology available today or you could get a lightly optioned Audi A3 or Mercedes-Benz CLA 250.
My current 2011 BMW 328xi doesn't have a backup camera. My former 2010 Acura TSX did. Guess which one I like driving better?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
@nyccarguy said:
But you enjoy driving- 99% of people behind the wheel are "operators" at best- and they are attracted by bells and whistles. When I covered the intro of the E93 I noted that it would sell like hotcakes even if it had the driving dynamics of a Chevrolet Cobalt...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Hmmm disagree with the statement that 99% of drivers are operators. Or if it is true, than bmw has built its company on that 1% of people that prefer the majority of cost in a car to be in the engine/suspension/driving dynamics (when bmw drivers call the interiors "driver focused" this is code for not as fancy/nice/supple as other cars in those price ranges). I think they're recent expansion into more comfortable, diverse cars is simply an attempt to take market share in other categories. Anyone that says "bmw is deviating from their core customer", just doesn't have any common business sense.
My 2 cents!
Pricing and equip info on the new TLX
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/03/2015-acura-tlx-pricing-official/
So in other words, it's a smart business move for a marque that has built its success by striving to be "The Ultimate Driving Machine" to build overweight numb steering luxo-barges while several of their direct competitors(Audi, Cadillac, Lexus) build better BMWs than Munich. Allow me to quote Peter M. De Lorenzo:
"By selling something acceptably agreeable for all, it’s all but guaranteed that BMW will fail to elicit passion from anyone.
Which makes it official: The poseurs and in-house cynics are out to destroy BMW from within."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Ricks X3 that we have built will have the top view monitor, that is a $750 options, however, to get this you have to get the Driver Assistance Package $950 total cost $1700 I don't think it's "breathtakingly expensive" how much was the package you need to get from Infiniti to get the top view monitor?
Seems sort of like how Holiday Inn has free wifi, but you pay $15 for it at the Hilton, etc...
I suspect a majority of BMW owners are in those cars for the image rather than the driving.