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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    It may not be quickest in the 1/4 mile, but the TSX with 4 cylinder engine and 6 speed manual is a delight to drive, and most definitely is an ELLPS.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,294
    sadly only 5% of the tsx market is sold in 6 speed form.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,055
    edited January 2011
    if one wants a manual transmission, it's time to go to work. They're rarely stocked, and when they are, they're liable to be loaded with s*** (let's say stuff) that I don't want. When I got mine, I checked inventories all over the West and finally ended up paying the local dimwits to truck one in from Denver that I couldn't see. Once that happens, serious bargaining goes out the window.

    Either way, I have my manual, and I enjoy it.

    Point being, if none are available for test drives, most people will give up. The same thing happens with BMW, among others.

    Chicken & egg.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    My experience back in 04 was just the opposite.

    I wanted a 325i and tried to find one with just the sport package and manual transmission and couldn't find anything that wasn't fully loaded.

    Then, having read the favorable magazine reviews, I test drove the TSX 6MT and that was it - I never looked back. It was so tossable and playful, and had the slickest shifter and sweetest revving engine I had ever experienced - nicer even than the also excellent BMW.

    Ironically, I was totally satisfied with it until I took it to a couple of BMW club track days (where, BTW, I was able to keep pace with E46 330is and E36 M3's) and decided that I wanted RWD.

    Except for it being FWD, the TSX has almost the perfect mix of sportiness, luxury, and refinement. It was simply a pleasure to own - and for 90% of drivers (who don't take their cars to lapping days), FWD is no handicap.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,324
    Coupes don't sell - That's why Honda KILLED OFF cars like the CL, RSX, & My Beloved Prelude. Another 50 Horsepower (The V6 TSX gets you an additional 80) or a turbo gives you way too much torque to drive the front wheels. The 200 horsepower & 175 lb-ft of torque are perfectly mated to Acura's FWD platform. The numbers don't tell the whole story.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    edited January 2011
    Another 50 Horsepower (The V6 TSX gets you an additional 80) or a turbo gives you way too much torque to drive the front wheels. The 200 horsepower & 175 lb-ft of torque are perfectly mated to Acura's FWD platform.

    Maybe you think 250 HP is too much to drive the front wheels, but I beg to differ.

    I've got 272 HP going to the front wheels of my Mazda6, and it's just right. I've suffered NO torque steer, even when exiting a tight corner. The only tug I've felt with a FWD V6 is with an Altima 3.5SE I tested a few years ago.

    I've even driven the TSX V6, and felt that the power was nice, with no noticeable torque steer. Can't say that for the 4-cylinder, even with a manual. The power was adequate, but still felt noticeably weaker compared to the G and 3-series, and I wasn't about to drop $36K on a FWD sedan just for the V6 (which IMO is way overpriced just to get a bigger engine).
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    The 6-spd is slowly being introduced right now. The ZDX and MDX have it and in a few months, the TL will have it with the 2012 update. I suspect that the TSX will get it in the next year or two.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,294
    edited January 2011
    honda didnt kill off the accord and civic coupe....during that time nissan introduced the g35 coupe and now an altima coupe, lexus has the is250C, bmw continues to make a 3, and 6, audi the a5, mbusa yep they have a few as well.. if they sold a tsx-like coupe it would outsell the ZDX and RL combined.. i understand the TSX is a great FWD car, and numbers dont tell the whole story, but the point is they need to step it up a bit.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,069
    For a Audi Forum I love how the TSX has taken over. :)

    I never understood why Acrua thought they needed a V6 in the TSX, never made sense. If they wanted more HP, then take the turbo engine from the RDX and make it a low pressure turbo engine, say in the 220-230 HP range. This would give the TSX more HP without having some of the FWD turbo issues. Add a real sport package to the car 6 spd manual and wham, got yourself a great car.

    Being back in school for my masters, I needed to lower my monthly payments on my car, so I went with a 2010 Ford Fusion SE with 6 spd manual and the Appearance package (also known as sport package) have to say, its a lot of fun to play with. I got 235/40/HR18 tires, slightly lower suspension, and taunter suspension all for $24K OTD. It has a bigger back seat then the TSX and living here in Phoenix, the last thing I want in the summer time is leather.

    But I'll be looking for a new 2012 A4 once I'm done with school, the back seat is bigger then the TSX, BMW or C class.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    A reporter is looking to interview anyone who recently considered buying a new Lexus but ended up getting something else, especially if it was related to styling, the freshness of the product or something that turned them off about the Lexus.
    Please email no later than Thursday, March 31, 2011 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.


    Need help navigating? - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Share your vehicle reviews

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    My IS350 is in for a couple recall items...

    I have a dealer courtesy car for the next week or so...RX 450h. Not sure if it is the hybrid implementation or the CVT...damn thing can't get out of it's own way...MOVE...I'm screaming at it. After a while...and pulling my quad muscles stomping the gas pedal like King Kong squishing a hobo standing in the way of his blonde bombshell...the behemoth finally moves.

    Sure, its very quiet, and i'm averaging 28mpg...because it drives like an ol Lady (no disrespect to old mom is an old lady :) )

    Glad I have a car while my recall work is being done...need my car back.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm in the market for a car and since time is on my side I've been looking at a leisurely pace.

    My short list is the G37x with plan b being the Lexus ES350 and plan c being the 335.

    In my heart the 335 is actually at the top of the list, but since I'm buying it's slightly out of my price range.

    I rented a G37 on vacation this year and was pleasantly surprised about how much better it was then the last G35 I drove.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,935
    edited June 2011
    I have driven numerous G35s and 1 G37.
    I have a 335iS on order - for European Delivery
    in September.
    Good luck w/your quest!
    - Ray
    One data point......
    2016 BMW 340i
  • carnaughtcarnaught 'zonaPosts: 2,339
    edited June 2011
    Although the G37 is more engaging to drive than the ES350, you'll tire quickly of the intrusiveness (loud growl of the engine, etc.) of the Infiniti. Unless you're planning a lease, the relatively poor resale of the Infiniti is also a negative.

    Personally, I'd go for the BMW. Also, for $h*ts and giggles, drive the VW CC; you might be pleasantly surprised.
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Posts: 378
    Co-worker took me on a two mile trip in the CC, I couldn't wait to get out-BLAH. Another Co-worker took me to lunch in his Audi 4 2.0 T, I felt like I was on a NYC subway during rush hour- car was cramped, its worst than my 99 Millennia.
  • You may have to do some more up-to-date research before commenting.......the resonant tailpipe tone on my G37 Coupe is intentional. The resale for my leased G37 is 56 percent which I understand is great for this segment. G37 has more features, is more reliable plus alot less costly to own than Lexus or BMW's. VW CC ? , Come on it isnt even close to an Infiniti in quality. The ES350 is a car for grandpa. The IS350 is actual a better competitor to the 335i, Acura TL and the G37 than the ES
    350. I laugh everytime one of my buddies takes his BMW in for repairs or maintenance after 50k...Its a joke. Don't take my word for it competitive info is all over the internet and this site.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    The "growl" of the engine in the G37 is different than the resonance from the tailpipe. It's the VQ's unrefined and rough sounding nature at higher revs that makes you think it's going to throw a rod every time you get it above 5000 RPM.

    BMW's inline 6 is one of the sweetest sounding, smoothest revving engines on the planet, and it's well worth the premium in price to have it.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,324
    You know you are getting the BMW kdshapiro! An ES350?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,294
    unrefined i laugh at that- the engine has been a work horse for nissan for years-has won engine of the year multiple times over (in prev variations) - it throws out 330 hp and gets ok fuel economy. Its not a bmw engine no, but its not unrefined -- drive a base dodge charger and you'll worry about "throw a rod" as you try to get on a local on ramp. Infiniti might be louder then BMW but again its different - i think infiniti was going for more of a muscle car sound at open throttle- we all can agree bmw is ahead when it comes to the class but infiniti is not far behind given the price points, the power, the sporty nature and quality.

    i own a infiniti g35x from 2007, actually looking for bmw 335xi sport 6 speed manual and would not be if infiniti put a 6 speed in awd form.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Ya' know, I've been a member of edmunds since 1999. In the 12 years since I have joined a lot has changed in my life.

    At this point, I am looking for a comfortable cruiser with decent gas mileage.

    In my quest I decided to lowball the dealers because I am ready to take delivery with the right price. if I can't get the deal I want for the specific car, I'll move on to the next manufacturer/dealer.

    As far as the IS250 it is way to small for me at this point in time.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    I notice you had the ES350 as a possible but not the 2012 TL. A lot of people are turned off by the styling which started in 2009 and that may be the reason. However, the 2012 has smoothed out lines and a lot better looking grill. It's probably right in between the G and the ES as far as ride/handling goes and gets 20city/29hwy with the new 6spd auto trans on the front wheel drive version which IMO is pretty good for a roomy luxury car.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    edited June 2011
    I am turned off by Acuras' styling direction. Maybe I'll look at the 2012. I am not a fan of the front grille at all. It's way worse than the Bangled up 745s; which I kind of liked, but everybody else hated.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Hear ya but they really did tone down the grill a bunch. I didn't like the styling either until I saw the 2012 at the auto show. Now the car is on my short list.
  • carnaughtcarnaught 'zonaPosts: 2,339
    edited June 2011
    You may have to do some more up-to-date research before commenting.......the resonant tailpipe tone on my G37 Coupe is intentional. The resale for my leased G37 is 56 percent which I understand is great for this segment.

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that I had to do "research" to your standards in order to comment here. Thanks for the advice but I've done the research....and, I owned a 2009 Infiniti coupe. While reliable, the "intentional", as you call it, tailpipe tone was just plain annoying. As for resale, you can quote any number you can dig up but what counts is what a person can actually get for their car in the real world, and it was not great.

    With 4 BMW's owned, sorry to disappoint you, but they all were stellar in terms of their lack of repair issues. I'll take any of them over the two Infinitis I've owned or the two my son has had.

    My bringing up the VW CC was mainly in response to KD's mentioning of the Lexus ES350. Not every car we become interested in have to be MT's or the road-burning classic "enthusiast" cars.

    Ultimately the comments we express here are based on our OPINIONS, and even though you may not agree with them, mine count as much as yours or anyones :shades: .
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm drooling good luck with your quest.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 10,279
    With 4 BMW's owned, sorry to disappoint you, but they all were stellar in terms of their lack of repair issues.

    Ditto, except I've owned nine(currently have 3); in my garage the poster child for mechanical issues and high repair costs has been my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2016 i3 REX/2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Actually he is right on the resale values. Infiniti's have gotten consistently high ratings for resale value from several professional sources, one being ALG. I think Infiniti actually won the ALG residual value award this year from Acura which had it the last two years.

    BTW - If you trade your car into a dealership, no matter what make it is, your going to get hosed on what you get for it. But if you sell it privately you'll be able to use the high resale value to your advantage.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Please don't deal in facts. It confuses people. ;)
  • carnaughtcarnaught 'zonaPosts: 2,339
    edited June 2011
    BTW - If you trade your car into a dealership, no matter what make it is, your going to get hosed on what you get for it. But if you sell it privately you'll be able to use the high resale value to your advantage

    This is "car-trading 101", which probably having bought and sold more than most, I am well aware of, thanks :shades: .

    BTW, I got hosed selling both my two Infinitis, so if you're thinking you're going to get what the published numbers are, you will be sadly mistaken in the real world . My car sales were to private owners and took many weeks and hard negotiations to come to fruition. Again, real world market place guys.....hope I don't confuse you :confuse: .
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Well, my computer died yesterday in the middle of my response, so here goes again (holding fingers)...

    I was in the exact same situation as you about half a year ago. My parents have reached the age where they can get us kids to to the shopping and testing for them.(though we have kids as well - heh). CPO 1-2 years old was also an option.

    Anyways, the short list was the TSX, the C Class, the CTS, the G37, and the IS250/350.

    TSX - this came in last place. It suffers from front wheel drive and while it is pretty inside, it still has a noisy engine and a feel to it that is pretty "normal". And the looks aren't that great. It has that smiley face look that only the Japanese can pull off.

    IS250/350 - Had a lot of the same issues as the TSX. Just sort of "meh", though a very nice and pretty car overall. But it lacked something identifiable as a soul or a personality. Like going to Cold Stone and getting just vanilla ice cream. Sure, it's superb, but even the most awesome vanilla is still vanilla. The prices of the TSX and IS also seemed a bit inflated.

    So that left the G37, G8, the C350, and the CTS.

    The G37 was good, but it really has an odd feel to it - it's a young person's weekend racer in a business suit. It doesn't feel as polished or refined as it should be, and perhaps that's because it is based upon the Z. It also has that dolled-up feel to it. I guess it was sitting in the M next to it that reinforced to me how big of a difference there was between luxury and just looking like it. You''d figure that an auto manufacturer would build a smaller version of its better cars instead of pimping out a lower brand...

    Great car to drive, though. Just was missing something.... It's kind of how I describe the Volvo S60 and Audi A4 - close but still feels off.

    It boiled down to two choices that were an absolute tie, the C class and the CTS.

    The CTS was what they eventually settled upon, but only because of the GM dollars that he had. It is a fantastic car all-around. The car drives great, handles great, and has a very nice interior. It's by far the best thing GM has ever made.

    My personal favorite, though, was the (new model) C350. It felt just about perfect in how it drove. The interior was also perfect as well - great seats, and you could tell that it was really a smaller version of the E class and S class. I'd rate it as a slightly softer road feel of the 3 series. Both are within a few percent of each other. But the edge for luxury goes to Mercedes. The edge for performance goes to BMW.
    (note - the new E class sedan is based largely upon the C class - if you want something larger that is)
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