Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

flightnurse

andres3 said:

My current work commute is over double what it was when I first purchased my S4. I now have 25,000 miles already! While you only live once, this kind of mileage is racking up serious depreciation that my frugal side wasn't anticipating. I think I might have the wife get a new car so I can use her '07 Civic EX sedan as my high mileage beater. It also gets great gas mileage. With the saved fuel, maybe I'll spring for the REVO Stage 1+ pulley upgrade kit that takes the S4 to RS4 levels..... and perhaps beyond....

If you bought the S4 to hold it's value you made a big mistake. I have 30K on my 320i and it's not even 2 yrs old, if you are worrying about mileage on your car, then next time purchase a Dodge Dart. Since your S4 has been in an accident, the value has has been depreciated already.

andres3

kyfdx said:

Why not just swap cars with the wife?

Well, I'd have to trust the wife with the pricey S4, and she doesn't have a long commute, but she still works 5 days per week so it would still be gaining miles. She's a good driver but I wouldn't trust her 100% with the S4 until she completes a HPDE weekend (which so far I've been unsuccessful in getting her to try). Even with me behind the wheel, someone managed to get into a wreck with the S4 by being just horrible.

I'm not sure the WRX STI would depreciate slower than the S4; especially considering the S4 now has 25,000 miles whereas I'm assuming you meant get a brand new WRX STI. The first 25,000 miles are the biggest.

If I could live with a stick for a daily driver on congested freeways, The STI would be right up my alley. Since I don't want a stick for daily duty, Subaru is out until they develop a good dual clutch auto-manual transmission. At least they don't' embarrass the STi with a CVT option. The Golf R would be a good alternative...., but even if the S4's extra weight keeps it from handling as well, the tuning options on the S4 are quite extraordinary. You can basically turn it into an AWD muscle car that handles reasonably great considering its weight.

The other consideration is the wife is starting to itch for a new vehicle after 8 years with the Civic. Something roomier would be nice since we have a 19-1/2 month old now, and possible wishes for a 2nd in the near future. The Golf SportWagon just surpassed the Forester in the running... TDI; great mileage, and right now diesel is cheap. It is "JUUUUUSSSST" big enough with the significantly elongated rear end, and I'm not sure any vehicle is as space efficient as the new Golfs/GTI's.

The S4 has performed exemplary as the Sport Sedan disguised as a Family Sedan thus far. 2 kids is pushing it though; but maybe not until at least one of them is much older. The worst thing is being told you should go rear-facing with the car seat up to 2 years. Rear-facing takes up MUCH MORE room than front-facing, and I think the statistics that say it's 5X safer are skewed by really bad drivers.

andres3

According to the small claims judge the accident's diminished value was only worth $3K That being said, it is still twice as much as the insurance company wanted to part with. $3,000 could pay for some nice modifications and improvements to increase my enjoyment even more.

I just didn't plan on racking up so many miles so quickly. I'll be at 30K before you know it. Isn't there data to figure you've spent at least .25/mile? I'm probably overreacting, but I don't hate the Civic. I need to put a better sound system in it though.

flightnurse

andres3 said:

According to the small claims judge the accident's diminished value was only worth $3K That being said, it is still twice as much as the insurance company wanted to part with. $3,000 could pay for some nice modifications and improvements to increase my enjoyment even more.

I just didn't plan on racking up so many miles so quickly. I'll be at 30K before you know it. Isn't there data to figure you've spent at least .25/mile? I'm probably overreacting, but I don't hate the Civic. I need to put a better sound system in it though.

I think your priorities are askew, the accident will be the big issue not your miles when you go and sell it.

tlong

I guess I always figured that unless somebody was leasing, I bought the car so I might as well enjoy it. I keep my cars a long time so I don't worry about limiting my miles, I intend to use the car to the maximum. Currently at 152K on my '05 Acura TL and will probably keep it another year or so. I would say drive the car and enjoy it (the S4) and don't worry about resale value unless that is something critical to you.

andres3

flightnurse said:

andres3 said:

According to the small claims judge the accident's diminished value was only worth $3K That being said, it is still twice as much as the insurance company wanted to part with. $3,000 could pay for some nice modifications and improvements to increase my enjoyment even more.

I just didn't plan on racking up so many miles so quickly. I'll be at 30K before you know it. Isn't there data to figure you've spent at least .25/mile? I'm probably overreacting, but I don't hate the Civic. I need to put a better sound system in it though.

I think your priorities are askew, the accident will be the big issue not your miles when you go and sell it.

I agree, I'm an Audi buyer and I wouldn't touch one that has been in a moderate to major accident with a ten foot pole. Not without a big steep discount. Luckily I can just keep mine long term as it turns out it has been extremely reliable not only before the accident, but after (less one coolant hose debacle). The problem is (and the big difference is) you have some control over your miles (move your residence or buy an extra car), but you have no control over an accident that is in the history books, nor future accidents (not at fault) for that matter.

andres3

tlong said:

I guess I always figured that unless somebody was leasing, I bought the car so I might as well enjoy it. I keep my cars a long time so I don't worry about limiting my miles, I intend to use the car to the maximum. Currently at 152K on my '05 Acura TL and will probably keep it another year or so. I would say drive the car and enjoy it (the S4) and don't worry about resale value unless that is something critical to you.

Appreciate the input you and others here have given. I guess life is too short to drive a 140 HP Civic EX Sedan 65+ miles a day over a 333 HP (underrated stock number) S4 Sedan. Of course, I don't have much fun doing the typical route on the freeway being stuck behind mind numbing traffic. However, as I've previously mentioned; I've found a very fun route home that doesn't cost much extra time but most definitely costs me extra fuel, brakes and tires. I'll trade the fun for brakes, gas, and tires though; it's worth it.

graphicguy

tlong....I know you mentioned you will keep your TL for another year, but have you started looking around yet? If so, what are you looking at?

flightnurse

andres3 said:

tlong said:

Appreciate the input you and others here have given. I guess life is too short to drive a 140 HP Civic EX Sedan 65+ miles a day over a 333 HP (underrated stock number) S4 Sedan. Of course, I don't have much fun doing the typical route on the freeway being stuck behind mind numbing traffic. However, as I've previously mentioned; I've found a very fun route home that doesn't cost much extra time but most definitely costs me extra fuel, brakes and tires. I'll trade the fun for brakes, gas, and tires though; it's worth it.

HOw much fun can one have on the clogged freeways of San Diego? again priorities are askew...

flightnurse

So after some time, we ordered Ricks new BMW, 2016 328xi GT, Imperial Blue w/ Oyster Interior. European Delivery date at The Welt Aug 28th. Spending 11 days in Europe with the car.

stickguy

that sounds nice. the car, and the trip!

nyccarguy

Enjoy the car & the trip! We want a full write up upon your return;)

graphicguy

FN...cool....wanna hear all about it when you return!

tlong

graphicguy said:

tlong....I know you mentioned you will keep your TL for another year, but have you started looking around yet? If so, what are you looking at?

Well, I'm underwhelmed by some of the cars out these days. While I could afford a quite expensive car it is not in my current desire to spend more than perhaps $35K or so. My preferences are mildly sporty but nicely appointed smaller cars. So I'm thinking either a fully loaded Mazda 3 which handles really well and can have a pretty nice interior; or perhaps a used C-class. I don't find the Bimmers nice enough inside for my tastes. I'm ok with the current A4 but frankly don't want to spend that much - I found my '98 A4 at least as appealing as the current model. And I really lament the scarcity of manual transmissions and that is probably one reason that I'm not overly motivated by a lot of the available choices. I might consider something like a VW GTI but I'm not inclined to deal with VW and their parts and service again. I find the current Jetta a bore-fest.

Part of the reason I've kept the TL so long is that it is really reliable and I've not found anything that moves me a whole lot at a decent price point. So I keep driving the TL while waiting for something more interesting to come along.

andres3

flightnurse said:

andres3 said:

tlong said:

Appreciate the input you and others here have given. I guess life is too short to drive a 140 HP Civic EX Sedan 65+ miles a day over a 333 HP (underrated stock number) S4 Sedan. Of course, I don't have much fun doing the typical route on the freeway being stuck behind mind numbing traffic. However, as I've previously mentioned; I've found a very fun route home that doesn't cost much extra time but most definitely costs me extra fuel, brakes and tires. I'll trade the fun for brakes, gas, and tires though; it's worth it.

HOw much fun can one have on the clogged freeways of San Diego? again priorities are askew...

You've proven my point though. Since the fun factor on clogged freeways equalizes a Yugo and a M5, you might was well save the money and drive the Yugo?? Unless of course comfort and safety are important to you.

nyccarguy

tlong said:

graphicguy said:

tlong....I know you mentioned you will keep your TL for another year, but have you started looking around yet? If so, what are you looking at?

Well, I'm underwhelmed by some of the cars out these days. While I could afford a quite expensive car it is not in my current desire to spend more than perhaps $35K or so. My preferences are mildly sporty but nicely appointed smaller cars. So I'm thinking either a fully loaded Mazda 3 which handles really well and can have a pretty nice interior; or perhaps a used C-class. I don't find the Bimmers nice enough inside for my tastes. I'm ok with the current A4 but frankly don't want to spend that much - I found my '98 A4 at least as appealing as the current model. And I really lament the scarcity of manual transmissions and that is probably one reason that I'm not overly motivated by a lot of the available choices. I might consider something like a VW GTI but I'm not inclined to deal with VW and their parts and service again. I find the current Jetta a bore-fest.

Part of the reason I've kept the TL so long is that it is really reliable and I've not found anything that moves me a whole lot at a decent price point. So I keep driving the TL while waiting for something more interesting to come along.

It is funny that you say that. I feel the same way: "underwhelmed" by not just some, but a lot of cars out there these days. Nothing jumps out at me in the looks or driving department that makes me start thinking about how long until I'm even or have equity on the loan of my Subaru. I look at the price I paid for my Subaru, the features it has that I really like (AWD, Heated Seats) and also what my monthly payment is. No my car isn't perfect, it could use more giddyup. I look at different cars and say to myself, OK this is nice, but not worth $X thousand more than my Legacy and definitely not worth $X more per month.

You are going to have a tough time going from your V6 powered TL to a 4 Cyl Mazda 3 though.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

tlong said:

graphicguy said:

tlong....I know you mentioned you will keep your TL for another year, but have you started looking around yet? If so, what are you looking at?

Well, I'm underwhelmed by some of the cars out these days. While I could afford a quite expensive car it is not in my current desire to spend more than perhaps $35K or so. My preferences are mildly sporty but nicely appointed smaller cars. So I'm thinking either a fully loaded Mazda 3 which handles really well and can have a pretty nice interior; or perhaps a used C-class. I don't find the Bimmers nice enough inside for my tastes. I'm ok with the current A4 but frankly don't want to spend that much - I found my '98 A4 at least as appealing as the current model. And I really lament the scarcity of manual transmissions and that is probably one reason that I'm not overly motivated by a lot of the available choices. I might consider something like a VW GTI but I'm not inclined to deal with VW and their parts and service again. I find the current Jetta a bore-fest.

Part of the reason I've kept the TL so long is that it is really reliable and I've not found anything that moves me a whole lot at a decent price point. So I keep driving the TL while waiting for something more interesting to come along.

It is funny that you say that. I feel the same way: "underwhelmed" by not just some, but a lot of cars out there these days. Nothing jumps out at me in the looks or driving department that makes me start thinking about how long until I'm even or have equity on the loan of my Subaru. I look at the price I paid for my Subaru, the features it has that I really like (AWD, Heated Seats) and also what my monthly payment is. No my car isn't perfect, it could use more giddyup. I look at different cars and say to myself, OK this is nice, but not worth $X thousand more than my Legacy and definitely not worth $X more per month.

You are going to have a tough time going from your V6 powered TL to a 4 Cyl Mazda 3 though.

I don't know about that ... didn't that iteration of the TL have 225 HP? The Mazda, in "s" trim, has 185 HP. And, the power to weight ratio might be pretty similar.

Yeah, you're giving up the smoothness of the 6 for the potential buzziness of the 4, but the better mileage may make up for that.

graphicguy

tlong....good points. Only for a different reason, I keep crossing off cars off my list that might be interesting, but could be potentially a hassle to own. My CTS comes immediately to mind. Good looking. Has all the "right stuff". But, just a nightmare to own.

tlong

graphicguy said:

tlong....good points. Only for a different reason, I keep crossing off cars off my list that might be interesting, but could be potentially a hassle to own. My CTS comes immediately to mind. Good looking. Has all the "right stuff". But, just a nightmare to own.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I also looked at the A3 - while I do like my cars a bit smaller (I find my TL borderline too big), the A3 was just too tight for me to like and seemed a bit too cheap inside.

Regarding the Mazda, we do have an '07 Mazda 5 and I find the 4 cyl quite refined for a 4. Of course it is not a hot rod but it has a tighter turning circle, better steering feel, and is way more agile than my TL, which is probably why I would consider the Mazda 3. A fully loaded 3 is almost like a baby Bimmer and fully loaded seems to be just as nice from an interior POV, an area where to me the 3-series has always fallen a bit short.

Sandman6472

Funny how we all have different tastes in vehicles. The wife really likes her A3 even better than her old Mazda3s which she really liked. As to being cheap inside, seems fine to us but it's the most expensive vehicle we've ever owned and our first German make...to be honest, if I had the funds, I would've gotten one instead of my Golf but feel like I got a 2/3 A3 right now. The smaller size of both vehicles was a major reason for purchasing what we did as we both like a small vehicle and we both got what we wanted here! Reliability wise, her A3 has been stellar unlike my Golf with 2 unplanned dealer visits in 5 months...can't blame the rims/tires issue on them really as I wanted the swap in the first place. Driving near the VW store this morning, saw the TDI wheels I originally wanted and still a bit pissed that they didn't listen to me but like what they substituted as I only see them on Jetta SEL models.
Just wondering what'll happen once the warranty ends on both of them...if any major problems crop up and if we'll both keep them over the eight to nine year plan, Plan A. Time will tell but being the optimist that I am, I'm saying that we'll both make it to year eight...and possibly 9!

The Sandman

graphicguy

tlong....have you looked at the 4 cyl TLX? Would that hit your budget?

flightnurse

graphicguy said:

tlong....good points. Only for a different reason, I keep crossing off cars off my list that might be interesting, but could be potentially a hassle to own. My CTS comes immediately to mind. Good looking. Has all the "right stuff". But, just a nightmare to own.

How is it a nightmare to own?

cdnpinhead

flightnurse said:

How is it a nightmare to own?

Those of us who populate other boards will advise you to bring a notebook and lunch.

Stand by.

andres3

flightnurse said:

graphicguy said:

tlong....good points. Only for a different reason, I keep crossing off cars off my list that might be interesting, but could be potentially a hassle to own. My CTS comes immediately to mind. Good looking. Has all the "right stuff". But, just a nightmare to own.

How is it a nightmare to own?

Think all the Big 3 stereotypical owner experiences everyone always harps on the Big 3 about and many think is history but for some it is still current events and news. Breaking news. Is it 2015 or 1995? His CTS is outgunning my Neon right now for Lemon of the Century. At least my Neon didn't become a complete lemon until after year 3 was over by 1 day. Even worse when I hit 36,000 miles probably just before year 4. That being said, it did need to be towed the first morning after it's first night in the garage at home. For balance, Dodge never told me they couldn't fix it.

andres3

sandman_6472 said:

Funny how we all have different tastes in vehicles. The wife really likes her A3 even better than her old Mazda3s which she really liked. As to being cheap inside, seems fine to us but it's the most expensive vehicle we've ever owned and our first German make...to be honest, if I had the funds, I would've gotten one instead of my Golf but feel like I got a 2/3 A3 right now. The smaller size of both vehicles was a major reason for purchasing what we did as we both like a small vehicle and we both got what we wanted here! Reliability wise, her A3 has been stellar unlike my Golf with 2 unplanned dealer visits in 5 months...can't blame the rims/tires issue on them really as I wanted the swap in the first place. Driving near the VW store this morning, saw the TDI wheels I originally wanted and still a bit pissed that they didn't listen to me but like what they substituted as I only see them on Jetta SEL models.
Just wondering what'll happen once the warranty ends on both of them...if any major problems crop up and if we'll both keep them over the eight to nine year plan, Plan A. Time will tell but being the optimist that I am, I'm saying that we'll both make it to year eight...and possibly 9!

The Sandman

How's the mileage with the TDI? Strongly considering a Golf SportWagen TDI for the wife. It is winning out over the Forester, even the Forester XT with leather.

Regarding another post about Mazda's and Audi's, I too, find the new A3 interior to be a bit of a let down, but only as compared to what is expected of Audi interiors. I think the '06+ A3 interior was superior. Of course, a GTI today can cost more than my A3 did in 2006, so inflation is a factor. I would say the A3 still has a better interior than any Mazda, but of course you pay for it. Nothing against Mazda, and not trying to bash them, but this is my impression from the last Mazda 3 rental I had a few years back:

1) All-around good economy car.
2) Coming from then being a current A3 owner, it felt like it had really thin sheet metal. Experience felt like I was driving a tin can car down the road as compared to the A3 being a bank vault or tank. Tin can is a bit harsh, probably more appropriate to use that term on the late 90's Kia Sephia rental I had. But there is a noticeable difference.

robr2

I can see it now - in 40 years:

Here lies andres3

Let Me Tell You About My Neon

flightnurse

cdnpinhead said:

flightnurse said:

How is it a nightmare to own?

Those of us who populate other boards will advise you to bring a notebook and lunch.

Stand by.

I must have missed something since I haven't seen GG post anything but glowing reviews of his CTS.

robr2

You can go over to buying and selling cars and go back about 500 comments to find the beginning of the story or send him a message directly to get his story.

tlong

sandman_6472 said:

Funny how we all have different tastes in vehicles. The wife really likes her A3 even better than her old Mazda3s which she really liked. As to being cheap inside, seems fine to us but it's the most expensive vehicle we've ever owned and our first German make...to be honest, if I had the funds, I would've gotten one instead of my Golf but feel like I got a 2/3 A3 right now. The smaller size of both vehicles was a major reason for purchasing what we did as we both like a small vehicle and we both got what we wanted here! Reliability wise, her A3 has been stellar unlike my Golf with 2 unplanned dealer visits in 5 months...can't blame the rims/tires issue on them really as I wanted the swap in the first place. Driving near the VW store this morning, saw the TDI wheels I originally wanted and still a bit pissed that they didn't listen to me but like what they substituted as I only see them on Jetta SEL models.
Just wondering what'll happen once the warranty ends on both of them...if any major problems crop up and if we'll both keep them over the eight to nine year plan, Plan A. Time will tell but being the optimist that I am, I'm saying that we'll both make it to year eight...and possibly 9!

The Sandman

Perhaps when I mentioned cheap inside, I'm also subconsciously adding "...for the price". I could get a stripper A3 for the low $30's, or a max loaded Mazda 3 for the high $20's - and the 3 has more equipment by far at those respective prices, as well as (I think) a bit more space inside but still a small package. I might also consider a manual on the Mazda 3 if I could get one fully loaded - something not available any more on the Audis.

I think I favor a bit more of the luxury side compared to some of those on this board since obviously if I wanted pure speed/handling I could go BMW. To get decent luxury in a BMW you pretty much need to add $10K for all the options and even then IMHO the Audis are nicer. But the prices on the Audis have gone somewhat stratospheric since I bought my '98 A4 brand new. At that time the Audi was pretty loaded for the same price as a low end 3-series that was a lot more stripped. Nowadays Audi (to their credit) is seen much more positively than they were in the late '90s.

tlong

graphicguy said:

tlong....have you looked at the 4 cyl TLX? Would that hit your budget?

I did sit in the TLX and ILX recently in the showroom. I was surprised to feel that the TLX is really not so different in size or style than my '05 TL - a full 10 years older! The shapes are familiar, the interior still looks familiar, with the expected tarting up of LEDs, different fascias, bumpers, etc. My TL is like 250hp v6 and why would I buy a 4 cyl TLX for the same price or more than I paid for my TL? Too similar for my tastes and although the TL has been a great car, I guess I need a change and the TLX isn't it. I also find the TL/TLX just a bit bigger than I like and I want something a bit smaller and more agile. My TL is nice but a bit too much of a barge for me - which is why even our Mazda 5 feels so nice even though much less power. I'm looking for that tight steering and agility with some luxury. Power per se isn't critically important but refinement is more important.

graphicguy

tlong...makes sense.

FN...message me and I'll give you the scoop if you want. Most here know it already.

andres3

tlong said:

sandman_6472 said:

Funny how we all have different tastes in vehicles. The wife really likes her A3 even better than her old Mazda3s which she really liked. As to being cheap inside, seems fine to us but it's the most expensive vehicle we've ever owned and our first German make...to be honest, if I had the funds, I would've gotten one instead of my Golf but feel like I got a 2/3 A3 right now. The smaller size of both vehicles was a major reason for purchasing what we did as we both like a small vehicle and we both got what we wanted here! Reliability wise, her A3 has been stellar unlike my Golf with 2 unplanned dealer visits in 5 months...can't blame the rims/tires issue on them really as I wanted the swap in the first place. Driving near the VW store this morning, saw the TDI wheels I originally wanted and still a bit pissed that they didn't listen to me but like what they substituted as I only see them on Jetta SEL models.
Just wondering what'll happen once the warranty ends on both of them...if any major problems crop up and if we'll both keep them over the eight to nine year plan, Plan A. Time will tell but being the optimist that I am, I'm saying that we'll both make it to year eight...and possibly 9!

The Sandman

Perhaps when I mentioned cheap inside, I'm also subconsciously adding "...for the price". I could get a stripper A3 for the low $30's, or a max loaded Mazda 3 for the high $20's - and the 3 has more equipment by far at those respective prices, as well as (I think) a bit more space inside but still a small package. I might also consider a manual on the Mazda 3 if I could get one fully loaded - something not available any more on the Audis.

I think I favor a bit more of the luxury side compared to some of those on this board since obviously if I wanted pure speed/handling I could go BMW. To get decent luxury in a BMW you pretty much need to add $10K for all the options and even then IMHO the Audis are nicer. But the prices on the Audis have gone somewhat stratospheric since I bought my '98 A4 brand new. At that time the Audi was pretty loaded for the same price as a low end 3-series that was a lot more stripped. Nowadays Audi (to their credit) is seen much more positively than they were in the late '90s.

The S4 is available with a 6-speed manual transmission complete with all 3 pedals on the floor! It also amazingly makes the car quite cheap, at under $50K even with extra pricey paint before negotiation. If you have to have all the gadgets and doodads then add $8K.

andres3

tlong said:

graphicguy said:

tlong....have you looked at the 4 cyl TLX? Would that hit your budget?

I did sit in the TLX and ILX recently in the showroom. I was surprised to feel that the TLX is really not so different in size or style than my '05 TL - a full 10 years older! The shapes are familiar, the interior still looks familiar, with the expected tarting up of LEDs, different fascias, bumpers, etc. My TL is like 250hp v6 and why would I buy a 4 cyl TLX for the same price or more than I paid for my TL? Too similar for my tastes and although the TL has been a great car, I guess I need a change and the TLX isn't it. I also find the TL/TLX just a bit bigger than I like and I want something a bit smaller and more agile. My TL is nice but a bit too much of a barge for me - which is why even our Mazda 5 feels so nice even though much less power. I'm looking for that tight steering and agility with some luxury. Power per se isn't critically important but refinement is more important.

I agree with your assessment. In fact, I think the TL from 10 years ago is superior in some ways to the new TLX. Although, to be fair, the TLX is available with a V6 too, though they seem to be rare and overpriced.

10 years ago I was able to get a sport packaged equipped Audi A3 for about $30K out the door, nowadays, that wouldn't get me a loaded GTI.

Seems to me you might want to try the Golf R, reviews seem to say it is nice, refined, and should give that tight agile feel your looking for at under $40K, if you can find one. I didn't like the A3 for it's too small trunk, too plain interior, but I did like how light and toss-able the chassis felt.

circlew

I can report the Q50 V-6 is one of the best engines I've experienced, even nicer than the I-6 in the 330XI that I leased back in'06. Granted, the supension, road feel and the intuitive qualities of the beemer still linger but the Q ia a very nice ride!

roadburner

"Beemer/" You can't get a six in any configuration from BMW Motorrad...

billyperks4

circlew said:

I can report the Q50 V-6 is one of the best engines I've experienced, even nicer than the I-6 in the 330XI that I leased back in'06. Granted, the supension, road feel and the intuitive qualities of the beemer still linger but the Q ia a very nice ride!

Why are sales so dismal?

graphicguy

tlong....one thing you might want to do is drive the TLX. If refinement is at the top of your list, you might be pleasantly surprised by a test drive....especially the V6 SH AWD version.

breld

@tlong - if you get serious about going with the Mazda3, I'd be happy to provide you with my experience.

I recently went from my 535i to a Mazda3 S with a manual trannie, for much of the same reasons you are citing regarding your TL.

I've been pleased with the change thus far.

billyperks4

breld said:

@tlong - if you get serious about going with the Mazda3, I'd be happy to provide you with my experience.

I recently went from my 535i to a Mazda3 S with a manual trannie, for much of the same reasons you are citing regarding your TL.

I've been pleased with the change thus far.

Ok- you went from a RWD inline six to FWD 4CYCL-and you are pleased- explain.
I am not trying to be harsh here I just need to hear your pleasantry regarding this change.
I always try to go a step up on the food chain in regards to car- new or used- not boasting, just a goal I set.
Currently 535XI- next, probably a 550XI (new) or a 650 (used).

benjaminh

tlong said:

graphicguy said:

tlong....have you looked at the 4 cyl TLX? Would that hit your budget?

I did sit in the TLX and ILX recently in the showroom. I was surprised to feel that the TLX is really not so different in size or style than my '05 TL - a full 10 years older! The shapes are familiar, the interior still looks familiar, with the expected tarting up of LEDs, different fascias, bumpers, etc. My TL is like 250hp v6 and why would I buy a 4 cyl TLX for the same price or more than I paid for my TL? Too similar for my tastes and although the TL has been a great car, I guess I need a change and the TLX isn't it. I also find the TL/TLX just a bit bigger than I like and I want something a bit smaller and more agile. My TL is nice but a bit too much of a barge for me - which is why even our Mazda 5 feels so nice even though much less power. I'm looking for that tight steering and agility with some luxury. Power per se isn't critically important but refinement is more important.

One thing you've probably already thought of is that few brands beyond Acura are likely to give you the 10 or so years of very reliable service that you've had with your TL. If you'd gotten a MB, Audi, or BMW back in 2005, by now it's likely you would have run into some expensive stuff. And I'm not sure it's fair to compare the price of your TL ten years ago with the price of a TLX today. A loaded Audi A3 might suit you better, but it will costs c. $5000 or so more than a comparable TLX.

The TLX really does have some significant features beyond your TL. It's much safer, gets higher mpg, has 4 wheel steering, as well as a lot of other things just being dreamed of ten years ago.

I liked the handling of our Mazda5 too, but it failed the IIHS crash test. Since the Mazda5 essentially killed the dummy inside, we sold it.

Did you like the ILX?

flightnurse

circlew said:

I can report the Q50 V-6 is one of the best engines I've experienced, even nicer than the I-6 in the 330XI that I leased back in'06. Granted, the supension, road feel and the intuitive qualities of the beemer still linger but the Q ia a very nice ride!

VQ egine from Nissan has won many awards but the biggest issue is, horrible MPG, Harshness in the upper range and not very refine towards redline. Now according to you the VQ is a better engine then the inline 6 from BMW, but motor journalist from around the world would say you are wrong..

nyccarguy

circlew said:

I can report the Q50 V-6 is one of the best engines I've experienced, even nicer than the I-6 in the 330XI that I leased back in'06. Granted, the supension, road feel and the intuitive qualities of the beemer still linger but the Q ia a very nice ride!

Glad you are happy with your Q50. I see quite a few of them on the road and like them.

cdnpinhead

Ok- you went from a RWD inline six to FWD 4CYCL-and you are pleased- explain.
I am not trying to be harsh here . . .

Roadburner, who has been on these boards for, lo, these many years, did a similar thing. He seems to enjoy his Mazda quite a lot, even though he's owned (and still does) several BMWs. Perhaps he will chime in.

Some continue to climb the ladder; others step off at the floor that pleases them, or even step down. Perhaps the vehicle has a steering wheel actually connected (mechanically) the the front axle. Perhaps it has a dipstick. Perhaps you don't have to have it towed to the dealer when the battery goes dead. Perhaps it has real tires and a spare.

Go figure.

billyperks4

"Some continue to climb the ladder; others step off at the floor that pleases them, or even step down. Perhaps the vehicle has a steering wheel actually connected (mechanically) the the front axle. Perhaps it has a dipstick. Perhaps you don't have to have it towed to the dealer when the battery goes dead. Perpahs it has real tires and a spare."

This implies that we (car lovers) should take public transportation and forget about the calamity of cars .

thebean

billyperks4 said:

"Some continue to climb the ladder; others step off at the floor that pleases them, or even step down. Perhaps the vehicle has a steering wheel actually connected (mechanically) the the front axle. Perhaps it has a dipstick. Perhaps you don't have to have it towed to the dealer when the battery goes dead. Perpahs it has real tires and a spare." This implies that we (car lovers) should take public transportation and forget about the calamity of cars .

Really?  I didn't interpret it that way at all.  I read it as everyone is different and you should drive what floats their boat and not have to feel bad about it.  Maybe I'm wrong.

roadburner

cdnpinhead said:

Ok- you went from a RWD inline six to FWD 4CYCL-and you are pleased- explain.
I am not trying to be harsh here . . .

Roadburner, who has been on these boards for, lo, these many years, did a similar thing. He seems to enjoy his Mazda quite a lot, even though he's owned (and still does) several BMWs. Perhaps he will chime in.

Some continue to climb the ladder; others step off at the floor that pleases them, or even step down. Perhaps the vehicle has a steering wheel actually connected (mechanically) the the front axle. Perhaps it has a dipstick. Perhaps you don't have to have it towed to the dealer when the battery goes dead. Perhaps it has real tires and a spare.

Go figure.



I buy whatever makes me smile. The badge or model number is never a factor. I don't judge the goodness of a car by the number of envious glances it generates or how well it telegraphs my disposable income to other motorists. That said, I would never discourage anyone from buying a 550i or 650i, as I own stock in Exide Technologies...

breld

billyperks4 said:

breld said:

@tlong - if you get serious about going with the Mazda3, I'd be happy to provide you with my experience.

I recently went from my 535i to a Mazda3 S with a manual trannie, for much of the same reasons you are citing regarding your TL.

I've been pleased with the change thus far.

Ok- you went from a RWD inline six to FWD 4CYCL-and you are pleased- explain.
I am not trying to be harsh here I just need to hear your pleasantry regarding this change.
I always try to go a step up on the food chain in regards to car- new or used- not boasting, just a goal I set.
Currently 535XI- next, probably a 550XI (new) or a 650 (used).

Well, I don't know how much you want me to go into it.

I'm beyond the "stepping up the food chain" with my car purchases, and appreciate what different cars have to offer. On top of that, I change out of cars often enough that I'm only committed to a particular purchase as long as I am enjoying it, thus giving me the "freedom" to try different cars out.

When I say I am pleased with the change, it has nothing to do with directly comparing the BMW and the Mazda3 - perhaps that was misleading. For what type of car I was looking for, the Mazda really fit the bill well.

I was sort of in a large sedan mode with the 535i (xdrive), having also just come out of a Passat. But with a nice comfortable minivan as the family hauler, I had the freedom and yearning to return to something more on the compact, sportier side for my daily driver. I also was interested in a manual transmission. Such cars are becoming more and more scarce, and the Mazda 3 is a nice choice for those priorities (I also considered a WRX and Civic Si, but liked the overall balance of the Mazda. And my wife already has a GTI, or I probably would have gone that route). The Mazda is very engaging to drive, requiring driver involvement to best take advantage of its (relatively low by today's standards) 184 hp through the slick 6-speed manual.

I most frequently post on the CCBA forum, and those that participate there know me (and my habits) fairly well. Lest my current ride be taken as speaking out of place on this particular forum, I have indeed owned several ELLPS vehicles, mostly various 3-series. I've also owned three 5-series, one of each from the past three models (E39, E60 and F10). The F10, while superbly comfortable and sharp-looking, just didn't hit the same notes as my earlier BMWs - that wasn't surprising based on test drives; I knew full well what I was getting into. I just didn't realize how much I'd be longing for the increased driver involvement.

So, I went for the total contrast in the Mazda 3. Within a year or two, I suspect I'll land somewhere in the middle, having my eye on a 4-series GC once they start hitting the used market.

breld

roadburner said:

cdnpinhead said:

Ok- you went from a RWD inline six to FWD 4CYCL-and you are pleased- explain.
I am not trying to be harsh here . . .

Roadburner, who has been on these boards for, lo, these many years, did a similar thing. He seems to enjoy his Mazda quite a lot, even though he's owned (and still does) several BMWs. Perhaps he will chime in.

Some continue to climb the ladder; others step off at the floor that pleases them, or even step down. Perhaps the vehicle has a steering wheel actually connected (mechanically) the the front axle. Perhaps it has a dipstick. Perhaps you don't have to have it towed to the dealer when the battery goes dead. Perhaps it has real tires and a spare.

Go figure.

I buy whatever makes me smile. The badge or model number is never a factor. I don't judge the goodness of a car by the number of envious glances it generates or how well it telegraphs my disposable income to other motorists.


Or...put simpler, what @roadburner said.

tlong

andres3 said:

The S4 is available with a 6-speed manual transmission complete with all 3 pedals on the floor! It also amazingly makes the car quite cheap, at under $50K even with extra pricey paint before negotiation. If you have to have all the gadgets and doodads then add $8K.

Andres, thanks for the suggestion. I don't think I'm inclined to spend that much for the S4 although I'm sure I would enjoy it. Also isn't the A4 due for a redesign in a year or so? I'm curious to see what changes. Unfortunately I'm sure it will go up in price some more.

tlong

breld said:

@tlong - if you get serious about going with the Mazda3, I'd be happy to provide you with my experience.

I recently went from my 535i to a Mazda3 S with a manual trannie, for much of the same reasons you are citing regarding your TL.

I've been pleased with the change thus far.

Breld, thanks for the suggestion and I would be interested in your thoughts. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post a lengthy story.

I'm sure after 10 years with my TL I would find some things lacking in a smaller car like the Mazda (I suspect noisier, tinnier, etc.). Of course my TL is tinnier than my A4 was. But boy it is nice to have high reliability and reasonable parts cost. I suppose we are all looking for that German feel with the reliability of the Asian makes. I'm sure for those who lease or keep a vehicle a short time it's not so important, but I'm a minimum 100K miles type of guy and so reliability is kind of important.