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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,881
    "Poor rear visibility; awkward driving position."

    If those are your 2 primary concerns, i would
    very strongly urge you to try for yourself -
    as these both can be highly subjective -
    and will often depend on your size, weight & build.
    I rented a CTS a few years ago, and did not
    find big issues with either of these aspects.
    - Ray
    2016 BMW 340i & 2015 Charger R/T - yup, it's got a Hemi...
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,023
    Dude not too sure what you been smoking, but you have some info.

    First the TSX is a European Accord, not one from Japan.

    The IS and Corrolla have NOTHING in common, first the IS is rear wheel drive and has a V6, the Corrolle is FWD.

    The First Gen IS is known in Japan as the Altezza.
    The 2nd Gen is not sold in Japan

    The G37 and 370Z are not the same car. They share some of the FM platform but that is about it, the 370Z wheelbase is about a foot shorter then the G37s.

    The CTS is a great looking car but is not screwed together very well. The Resale value of the CTS is horrible, about 45% after 3 years. The IS, G37 and the TSX are between 51 to 55% after 3 years, BMW has the highest resale value.

    Regarding service, BMW has 4 yr or 50K miles bumper to bumper maintence as service on thier cars. My 2005 330i needed a new clutch, fully covered under BMWs warrenty, can't do that at Mr.GoodWrench..

    the CTS is not the same size as the E class or 5 Series, the CTS is inline with the 3 series. Regarding the Nav system in the MB, which model are you talking about?

    Before coming on to a public forum and giving false into and trying to be a expert, get your facts correct...
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,881
    edited September 2011
    Specifications Comparison
    Cadillac CTS vs. BMW 3-Series
    Model Year 2011 2011
    Model CTS 3-Series
    Body 4dr Sedan 4dr Sedan
    Wheelbase 113.4 108.7
    Length 191.6 178.2
    Width 72.5 71.5
    = = =
    Specifications Comparison
    Cadillac CTS vs. BMW 5-Series
    Model Year 2011 2011
    Model CTS 5-Series
    Body 4dr Sedan 4dr Sedan
    Wheelbase 113.4 116.9
    Length 191.6 193.1
    Width 72.5 73.2
    2016 BMW 340i & 2015 Charger R/T - yup, it's got a Hemi...
  • "First the TSX is a European Accord, not one from Japan."

    I went to Jamaica on vacation and saw the TSX badged as an Accord, does that make it a Jamaican Accord? :)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 7,819
    The CTS is a great looking car but is not screwed together very well.

    That's putting it lightly. Even the Edmunds long term CTS tester became a rattle trap galore with parts falling apart in its first year. I've found that to be typical with domestic vehicles.

    It drove OK, I much preferred the Acuras, Infinitis, Audi's, and BMW's.
    2016 Audi TTS quattro AWD - 2016 Kia Optima Turbo LX FWD - Wife - 2017 VW Golf All-Track SE 4Motion AWD
  • 22332233 Posts: 64
    How does BMW's 4 year, 50k mile maintenance warranty deal with such repairs as brake pads and rotors? Has anyone had them replace things like that during this period?

    Brake pads and rotors often require service prior to 4 years. Does BMW typically pay for repairs such as this under this program. Or are their services usually limited to oil changes and/or major repairs?

    How difficult is it to obtain what they might consider discretionary repairs such as brakes?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 53,810
    Pads and rotors are included, if needed.

    The rear brakes on our first 3-series went at 30K miles.. no charge..


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Commuting in and out of New York (before moving up here to New Hamster) my BMW went through both front and rear pads and rotors in a little over 30,000 miles; both were replaced under the warranty.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 10,624
    Brake pads & rotors are included. The only thing not covered are tires.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,023
    My 2005 BMW 330i has the ZHP package and I beat it hard on track days, this is the reason for clutch replacement, and yes, front brakes too. My BMW dealer did not blink and eye when I brought it in for service. I still have the car, and bought the extended 2 yr, 50K warranty.
  • I purchased a 2011 335d in April and still have questions about why it doesn't have certain features that are described in the owners manual and what models they are included on.
    As far as I can see, I only have 2 power outlets, 1 in the console and the other under the glove compartment...which 3 series models have them in the trunk and dual outlets on the rear of the
    console, facing the back seat passengers? I also wondered why seat back cargo nets are still
    offered on some 3 series vehicles and not on others and why there is no electronic compass on
    the mirror if you have the navigation package, or why the heated steering wheel is deleted if you have the M Sport package.....All this does not make much sense.
    If anyone has answers, let me know.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 9,427's that new Z4 driving?
    2016 Cadillac CTS-1998 Mustang Cobra Convertible
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 10,624
    He LOVES it! His wife HATES it! He thinks either his neighbor or another poster on the board is going to assume the lease.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 53,810
    That pretty much covers it...


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    If the neighbor doesn't assume the lease, he might assume the wife. :P
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 53,810
    All things are possible..


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    First - Cadillac did sell a BTS in Europe which was 3 series sized and priced, but it sold only a few hundred of them. The CTS is actually their middle model in the lineup if you look at their entire global Cadillac lineup. They just wisely decided to not sell the smaller one in the U.S. It's is more akin the an E or 5 series. Which isn't too surprising, really. It's bigger, it's heavier, and it's not really designed to be a 3 series competitor.

    As for reliability, my parents have owned a standard model with the smaller 3.0L engine in it and it's been flawless. Not a single problem at all in the first year that they've owned it.

    And even if something does go wrong, it's a lot less than a Mercedes to fix.

    Lastly, yes, I know the Japanese companies play around with names and so on, but the comments are all too true. The G37 does share enough DNA with the Z that it's just not possible to hide the fact that it's a modified Nissan Z. And The IS, while it's not *exactly* based upon a Corolla, it's small like one and shares a lot of the same designers behind it. Kind of how a Buick is well, a Buick, even if they come in different sizes. ;)
  • "And The IS, while it's not *exactly* based upon a Corolla, it's small like one and shares a lot of the same designers behind it."

    Based on that logic, the Austin A40 my parents had when I was a kid, and the Ferrari Daytona are similar because they share the same designer. And of course, the current range of Bentleys are just glorified VWs. :)
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,023
    Not too sure what you are smoking too, just because the the Z and G share some of the same platform they are they are the same car... They both handle and drive completely different...

    Just because the Lexus IS is slightly bigger then a Corolla doesn't mean its the same car, again one is FWD the other is RWD, one has a 4 cyl and the other is a 6 cyl...
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Seriously, who cares what a car is called in another country or "badged" as. I never understood people's fascination with what cars are offered in other countries that they don't even live in. All that matters to us here in the US is what is offered in the US and what we can really compare things against since that is what is offered.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I think you better get off your rocker and go out and drive the cars your talking about because it just sounds like crazy talk. A G37 drives and rides completely different from Z, not to mention the fact it has two extra doors on it, duh, and a Corolla completely different from an IS. Just because a luxury company has a parent company does not make their stuff crap.

    We go by that logic then Cadillac's are glorified Buick's as they both share platforms. Because a car shares some components with another does not make it look or behave like one.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Some Cadillacs *are* unfortunately glorified Buicks. Charging the sheet metal on the exterior or playing with the doors and so on doesn't change a thing for most of these cars.

    They toned down the suspension on the G37 and added some leather, but it's still a pretty plastic interior and drives more akin to a muscle car than a real sports sedan. It's great in a straight line, but that's about it, really.

    Is it entry-level luxury? I'd say not. It fails that half of the equation, because almost every car these days can be had with leather and NAV, and so you have to look further and be a bit more discerning in what exactly "luxury" means aside from leather and a high price tag.
  • .............Based on that logic, the Austin A40 my parents had when I was a kid, and the Ferrari Daytona are similar because they share the same designer. And of course, the current range of Bentleys are just glorified VWs.

    Therefore, SEATs and Skodas are cheaper, but better built, VWs. Audis are dearer VWs and Lamborghini, Bugatti and Porsche are merely faster VWs. Jaguar and Land Rover are merely upmarket TATAs and Ferrari and Maserati are very quick, and expensive, Fiats. Rolls Royce ? Upscale BMWs. Vauxhall/Opel/Holden ? Rebodied GM-parts bin cars.

    Once you get past the SEAT, Skoda and Audi brands, (which basically are re-worked VWs), the logic falls apart pretty rapidly; although there are some component commonalities in amongst the others and their brand-owners mainstream offerings. Way of the world and none the worse for it.

    By the way, I learned to drive in an Austin A40. Nice little motor, for its day.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Really, I've felt the same way about the Cadillacs as you do the G37. The interior quality and the fit/finish is still not on the same level as some of the Japanese and German makes.

    Funny though how the 3-Series is constantly compared to the G37 in comparison tests. I guess the BMW is a muscle car too, lol. If the G37 is not an entry level luxury sedan than the CTS is most certainly not. Except for the BMW which I felt had a slight advantage over the G in handling off the highway, no Caddy handles better than the 3-Series or G37 do at their price range. You want sports luxury, get a BMW, Infiniti, or Audi, plain and simple.
  • 22332233 Posts: 64
    I agree with you 100% that great sports/luxury sedans are limited to Audi, BMW and Infiniti.

    I test drove a couple of 3 series cars yesterday. It felt similar to a G37 but it seemed more tossable on curves and maybe a little more enjoyable to drive.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    The 3 series is now a muscle car. The 1 series is as close to the original sport sedan ideal as you'll manage, these days.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,161
    The 3 series is now a muscle car.

    You do realize that you are probably the only person in the world that thinks that don't you?
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    That is most likely the silliest thing I've ever heard. You keep telling yourself that ;)
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited September 2011
    When you could get a car the size of a Crown Vic back in 1965 that weighed only 3000lbs, with maybe 2lbs of plastic (knobs and so on) and the only aluminum in it at all was in the engine block itself, yes, we've come back to the 1970s all over again.

    At 3500-3600 lbs and a wheelbase that's just under two inches shorter than a Buick LaCrosse, the current 3 series is a bloated pig that's nothing like the older cars from the 90s. Which could still be called sport sedans.

    What we have flooding the marketplace now are very heavy cars with big 300HP+ engines and long wheelbases. This is the definition of a muscle car, or it was back in the 60s and 70s.

    2006 Buick LaCrosse
    External dimensions:
    198.1 length
    73.0 Width
    110.5 wheelbase
    turning 35.8 ft
    curb weight (lb) 3495 lbs

    2011 BMW 335i sedan
    External dimensions:
    181.9 length
    70.2 width
    108.7 wheelbase (only 1.8 inches shorter)
    turning 36.1 (larger? Wait - a FWD *Buick* turns better than a RWD BMW?)
    curb weight: 3605 lbs. (heavier than a Buick?)

    1991 BMW (E30 series)
    170.3 Length
    64.8 Width
    101.2 wheelbase
    turning 34.5
    curb weight: 2900 lbs

    Something's gone horribly wrong in the last 20 years. We're now content to call essentially Buick-size and weight muscle cars "sport sedans". :sick:
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,023
    Not too sure what people are smoking on this board, but first off the 1 series is a couple or Convertible not a sedan. Regarding muscle car, that is a tough term to nail down. One could say the 335i is a muscle car 300hp 300 lbs of torque. The M3 could be called a muscle car too, 400Hp V8. But I don't think BMW would classify their 3 series as a muscle car.
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