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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,935
    edited October 2011
    'For roughly $1500 (which is far less then the price difference between a 335i and 335is) you can have your BMW make 350hp and 375lbs of torque be faster then a 335is and still get great mileage.'

    Regarding price of the 335iS vs 335i –
    Equipped the same [ 335iS includes ‘M Sport’ pkg]:

    W/manual trans. diff = $3,900
    W/auto trans. diff = $4,100

    For which one receives:

    Plus 20 HP and plus 70 TQ [ burst of 7 seconds ]
    – and associated, upgraded cooling equipment – fully backed by BMW’s 4 year 50,000 mile warrantee. That aspect specifically is worth a lot, to me.
    [ This is close to the Dinan Stage 1 ‘tune’ MSRP = $1,700 ]
    [ Note: the price of a Dinan upgraded oil cooler for a 335i with an OEM oil cooler is $1,499.00 ]

    An exhaust system that sounds just wonderful – to me – not too quiet, not too loud. Would be over $1,500 + install $$s –
    The BMW system list price is $1,691.18 + install.
    The Dinan performance exhaust system is $1,899 + install – plus what do I do with the OEM system?

    So [ for me ] the $4,100 difference is offset by
    the following items that would need to be added
    to a 335i to roughly equal a 335iS:
    $1,700 for Dinan Stage 1
    $1,500 for upgraded oil cooler [ plus install $$s ]
    $1,700 for exhaust [ plus install $$s ]

    So. Total difference in costs for the upgrades from a 335i to 335iS = $4,900 + install[s]
    Available for the [ relative ] bargain upcharge of $4,100 w/DCT.
    [ When I ordered. ]
    OK with me. . .
    - Ray
    Other ‘tuner’ comparisons I believe to be unfair –
    due to the very real [ potential ] warrantee coverage issues. . .
    2016 BMW 340i
  • Mark, I have the same color with a few coats of Zaino on it.
    Let me know the tires you are opting for maybe I will try them.

    I have to disagree with you on the looks, I still think my 2009 looks better than the 2012. My sales guy called me over when they first came out, he was trying to sway me with the ventilated seats, blind spot and 6th speed, told him outright-NO.

    IMHO- the new grill does not seem fitting to the overall make of the car (Wimpy-Grill). The car just seems to blend now (ordinary looking),at times I think its a TSX coming up the block.
  • ExtremeContact DWS(Ultra High Performance All-Season) $227ea.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    After eeking 48,000 miles out of a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/Ss, I considered the ExtremeContactDWS tires as my next replacement set. Then I got a chance to drive a car with them on; the handling is way too squishy for my tastes. In the end I opted for a set of Yokohama AVID ENVigors; they don't have quiet the same razor sharp handling the Michelins had, but they're only about 60% of the price too. :)
  • The issue I am having is that I want UHP tires and UHP A/S tires for the 19" wheels that come with the Advance AWD TL -- I had Yoko S.4. tires on my 2009 Audi with 19" and I loved them -- sadly they are not in the Acura Advance size. . . .
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    edited October 2011
    You mean like the 245/40 R19 Yokomaha AVID ENVigor available from for $200 per tire?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2011
    No the tire was a Yoko Advan S.4. It was an Ultra High Performance All Season tire that handled great, looked great, was very quiet, had decent tread wear, but cost about $250 to $272 per tire at the time I bought them in 2010.

    The Audi had 35 series shoes.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    My brother-in-law has the Advan S.4.s and they're pretty nice tires.

    As I understand it, the Acura TL Advance package uses the tires I listed above. Do you have a different tire?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "It was an Ultra High Performance All Season tire that handled great, looked great, was very quiet, had decent tread wear."

    That's how I would describe the Pirelli P Zero Nero's I have on my M3. I don't know how much they cost in your size though.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,130
    edited October 2011
    ray....I didn't take your post as picking "nits". I bought a 335i. I liked it then, I like it more with the upgrade (which was offered 3 months after I drove it off the dealer's lot).

    It's not a 335is....very close, but not quite. For about the same money as a long weekend at a a nice hotel and a couple of nice dinners with the GF (SHHHH...don't let her know that), I got a really nice performance boost to a car I thoroughly enjoyed without the performance boost.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,935
    'offered 3 months after I drove it off the dealer's lot'

    If I found myself in that position,
    I would almost certainly have bought BMW's offering.
    - Ray
    [im]patiently awaiting [re]delivery....
    2016 BMW 340i
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,065
    The $1500 of performance upgrade was from Vishnu, not Dinan. BTW, when you have Dinan do any upgrades they inform BMW of this with your VIN #. Dinan does some ama$$ing work but the price for entrance is not to my liking. I know a couple of people with 335i's with the Vishnu products and never had an issue.
  • Acura chose a tire, I know not why, that has the distinction of being High Performance, not Ultra High Performance. It is an all season V rated Goodyear RS-A -- it has a tread wear of 240 or 280 or something pretty low for such a low-er performance tire.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    edited October 2011
    Yikes! Goodyear Eagle RS-As? Utter and complete crap in every sense of the word. :sick:

    Those worthless donuts came from the factory on my current car and I had them yanked when there was only 714 miles showing on the odometer. I replaced them with a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires, and the immediate improvement in the handling and precidtiblity of my car was beyond my greatest expectations.

    If you look around on the net you'll find any number of makes and models where Goodyear suckered the manufacturer into using the RS-A; the last time I checked the only positive reviews coming from any car community are remarks from the folks driving the Ford Crown Victoria shod with the RS-A. Not much of a ringing endorsement if you ask me. :P

    Long story short, if you like your car now, you'll absolutely love it later, if and when you give it some new shoes. :shades:
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    The RS-As are utter crap as a tire. They came on my Maxima and Nissan and Infiniti liked to use them on a lot of things. They used to come standard on the M, but at least they came to their senses after people complained and now the M comes with Primacy MXM4s.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Funny thing, when I got my current car in the fall of 2008 the RS-As were way-way expensive, like twice the price of the vastly superior Michelin Pilot Sport A/S I replaced them with. Fast forward three years and they are literally less than half of the price they were back then (while the Michelin's have gotten much more expensive, and rightly so).

    I cannot imagine what questionable business tactics Goodyear used to sell so damned many of these horrible tires to the vehicle manufacturers of the world. FWIW, you can add Mazda and Volvo to the list of companies which got suckered into buying the RS-A.
  • Not defending the tires, but the TL uses a "new formulation" RS-A. I still think they are crap, too, but there is something that allowed Goodyear to call them NEW.

    Perhaps it is whatever has to be done to change their rating from H to V??
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    If I'm not mistaken, the Eagle RS-As that came on my car carried a "V" rating back in 2009. That said, I'll probably never be able to prove it one way or another as I was able to sell them within a week of having them yanked off of my car.
  • Mark- drove my wife's 04 accord to work today, guess what- they have grab handles!!!!
    I guess everyone has their little gripes-me, I would never buy any car with less than a 245 18 tire size. I just like that wide looking stance.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Yeah, why bother having a car with superior handling dynamics when you can have one which looks good? :P
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2011
    My TL has 245 x 40 x 19"'s which seem adequate -- or, better said, would be adequate if the tires were at least UHP's.

    I assume Acura chose the RS-A's for two reasons:

    #1 They got a deal from Goodyear, and
    #2 Customers didn't care for the Summer Only rubber that Acura had chosen previously.

    Too many folks here and on all the other "purpose" sites [non-permissible content removed] and moan about the dearth (and death) of manual transmissions. Yet manufacturers, like Acura, in this case, offer them up and 1-3% of their customers acutally buy them. If I were the manufacturer, I would seriously consider dropping something THAT unpopular unless there was virtually no cost to keep them at least in the brochure (since very few dealers will ever stock one of them.)

    Likewise, other good deeds don't go unpunished -- my 2009 Audi A4 with the 19" sport package came with Max Performance Dunlops -- SUMMER only tires. My dealer claims they never stocked the A4 with that sport package because the customers kept the summer tires on year 'round and had drivability issues or tire damage issues, etc. So, no mo' UPH or higher rated tires, typically -- because of customer disatisfaction. And, for the most part it is hard to find a car in this price range that doesn't come with A/S shoes.

    The list of other options or combination of options that manufacturers try to bring to the buying public that no one buys keeps on comin' -- so to combat this, the manufacturers bundle as much content as they can (or as they dare) into base, plus and max packages and pretty much disallow a la carte selection.

    Those that do allow you to add individual options often require that you first pony up for plus or max packages before they let you add your individual choices of extras. Case in point, to get the 19" wheel/tire sport package on an Audi A4, I first had to agree to buy the A4 configured as a Prestige model. No 19" wheels for the proletariat.

    Acura pissed me off -- a bit -- by not allowing me to select the blind spot warning system unless I went with the Advance designation; now that I have the Advance, I am glad, since I also got the 19" wheels (albeit with crappy tires) and ventilated (heated AND cooled) seats along with the BSW system.

    Of course every manufacturer here in ELLPS land seems to want you to buy off the lot, rather than order the car and wait for it to be made exactly to your specifications. Hence, we get essentially only two or three "package" choices.

    I'd like to see more than one tire choice offered to those willing to wait for their cars to be built; I'd also like to have a greater choice of interior and exterior color choices. Why is it that I couldn't get pearl white paint and the umber leather interior, but I could get crystal black with umber? Who's dumbass rule is that anyway?

    The list of incomprehensible rules regarding how we can configure a $45,000+ car never ceases to amaze. I guess there would have to be some rules -- especially since most of these cars are leased (the residual value of a purple car with a white leather interior would be, after all, low, lower, lowest) -- but if the customer is willing to pay for something (not a one off, mind you) that you are already offering -- just not in that combination -- TAKE THE CUSTOMER's MONEY for pity's sake!

    Why are back-up sensors NOT a factory option on an Acura TL? My dealer broke the rear bumper (which is, essentially, plastic) trying to install them (since the bumber has to be drilled), then after the bumper was repaired, the bumper had to be specially repainted since I had to be so lucky as to have pearl-effect paint (137 coats or some such thing).

    The dealer didn't make any money on THAT transaction -- and even they wonder why such a popular option on this class of car is not standard equipment (within the technology or advance packages) or at least a FACTORY installed option.

    Where was I? What time is it? Oh yeah -- who in the wide, wide world of sports decided to put RS-A's on the top o' the line TL?

    Drive it like YOU live!

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    If you focused on telematics (Sync, OnStar, etc) or ignored it completely in your 2011 car-shopping experience, email by Monday, October 17, 2011 and include your daytime contact information.


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  • Mark, I had the same problem back in 2009.
    I wanted the pearl white with the umber and 19" wheels but it was a rear combination. I stalked every dealer in CT and could not find the car.
    Finally this dealer in AVON CT located one and trucked it in (5 miles on the odometer).
    I was actually the first customer there that Saturday morning.
    Sales person brought the car around (it had factory tints on???)- real NICE.
    Here was the problem, they did want to budge off MSRP (according to them, this was a rare find), I told them thank you very much and walked- MAN THAT CAR WAS PRETTY.
  • me0000me0000 Posts: 11
    Looking at the 328i with Nav, I didnt notice whether there is a backup camera? Searching the BMW website, I dont see mention of it. I assume that there is not one but does anyone know definitively? thanks!
  • carnaughtcarnaught 'zonaPosts: 2,338
    None on this current generation of 3-Series.
  • me0000me0000 Posts: 11
    can the Parking Distance Control be added at the dealer or is that only a factory option? thanks!
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,130
    mark....billy....I have a dealer who I buy my Acura products from (if I'm in the market for an Acura). Any year, any color combo, any equipment level, any model. If they have to find one for me, they will. The deal is a skinny one.

    Then again, I've bought 3 Acuras from the same dealership, same sales person. It's really simple dealing with them and I always get a good deal.

    Same way with BMWs. I go to the same dealership, deal with the same salesperson (who's been there for 24 years). If they don't have what I want, they'll do their best to find it (a little bit harder with BMWs, it seems). Again, they always do a skinny deal with no hassle. And, I've also bought multiple BMWs from them.

    I've never been able to deal with either the local Infiniti dealer, nor the local Audi dealer. Neither likes to do skinny matter how easy the deal would be.

    However, driving 50-75 miles in either direction of me, and the Infiniti dealers and the Audi dealers are more than happy to make skinny deals.

    Go figure. know the dealerships (Audi Connection, Infiniti of Cincinnati) I'm talking about. I don't even bother shopping the local Audi dealership anymore when I'm in the market. They don't have a good selection, and all they want to do is order what you might want (or seek it out from another dealer). Then, they make you wait to get it, all the while offering little in the way of a discount for your trouble.

    The Infiniti dealer usually has good stock, but doesn't seem to like to get skinny on a purchase (Audi and Infiniti dealerships owned by the same principal). Maybe their focus is on leasing. But, I'm a purchase customer, not a lease customer.

    That diamond white paint on the TL is super expensive. I had to have body work done on my diamond white TL and the shop that did the work said it was a multi-step process, and hard to get right. Hand it to Acura to pull off such a feat on a production car. It is stunning looking, however.

    billy...I liked that umber interior. I almost bought one with that color. My Acura dealer mentioned that whenever they have those cars with that interior color, they were hard to sell. So, I figured (rightfully or wrongfully) that the umber might ding it come resell time.

    Mine had "stone" interior, which I liked quite a bit, too.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,130
    me...I have "park distance control" (PDC)on my 3. I like it....more than I liked the back-up camera on my TL. I can get within 12-18 inches of another car or garage wall just by watching the park distance control in the NAV screen.

    It was harder to judge distance with the back up camera.

    I'm certain you have to have BMW's iDrive to get PDC. But, I've never seen an option to add it as a dealer accessory. Call your dealer and ask them.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • I actaully wanted parchment but the AWD Tech did not offered it in2009.
    My little ones would have scuffed up the stone, I am in the act of ordering the rear seat covers probably this week.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,130
    Billy....if i still had small children, i probably wouldn't have gone for stone interior. I do like that umber, regardless of its impact on trade-in. It can't be that bad given Acura has offered it for several years.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
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