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you got the RWD, not the AWD?
I think it looks sweet. Siginficant HP, good handling, and the mgp of a Camry (or better). I just wish it was only $40k.
Besides which, the design robustness and/or build quality reputation of the brand hasn't been all that hot lately.
Also, compared to the cars on my list, the Merc (at least in my mind) is more about luxury & less about sport.
If you are looking at pure sport, look at the C350 Sport...which has the 6-speed manual. There is a detailed review (both +ve and -ve) at C&D:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=10116
C&D tested this car 0-60 in 5.5 secs!
Uh, try a good 5-6k more expensive than an ED 3 series, plus maintenance costs. Buy the 330i ED and the C class' msrp looks positively ghastly.
Comparing ED BMW with US MSRP MB is silly. MB has ED as well.
I think that MB is a strangely overlooked brand in this category. It is a fine car, albeit less filled with nifty toys than its Japanese counterparts, but it is rock solid, responsive and attractively designed.
It is a contender.
I agree with blueguydotcom. I don't care how close the 0-60mph & 1/4 miles times are between sticks and their power sucking torque converter counterpart slushboxes are, it just isn't the same driving experience-wise (div2 said it best in his ROUNDEL article a few months back).
I also understand that stick isn't for everybody.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I had done this analysis before purchasing my MB, and wanted to share pricing/features of BMW 330i v/s BM C-350 Sport. The models were "built" via their web sites.
Comparable options have been loaded. Of course people have their preferences for ride quality, looks etc. Moreover, the C-class can be easily obtained at NEAR invoice price, while BMW cannot...for me this tilted the net price difference to MB's favor.
My PERSONAL conclusion : The MB is significantly more powerful and smoother and has better-looking interior/exterior. The BMW is supposed to be better at "handling" and also has an edge on build quality. But the MB has the "star-power"! I chose the MB.
*******************
BMW 2006 330i Sedan
*******************
M S R P $36,600
* 3.0 liter DOHC, 24-valve, V6, RWD
* Output: 255-hp @6600 rpm
* Net torque 220 lb-ft @2750 rpm
* Run-Flat tires
* 17" Alloy Wheels
* 4-Year/50,000-mile Warranty
* Full Maintenance
* Roadside Assistance Program (Free ONLY when in Warranty)
Mystic Blue Metallic $475
Beige w/Dakota Leather w/ Burl Walnut
STEPTRONIC Automatic Transmission $1,275
Premium Package $2,200
Fold Down Rear Seats w/Ski Bag $475
On-Board Navigation System w/iDrive $2,000
Heated Front Seats $500
Power Rear Sunshade $575
Destination charge $695
Total price as built* $44,795
*******************
Mercedes C350 Sport
*******************
M.S.R.P. $38,325
* 3.5 liter DOHC, 24-valve, V6 RWD
* Output: 268-hp @6000 rpm
* Net torque 258 lb-ft (HUGE!) @2400 to 5000 rpm (HUGE RPM RANGE!)
* No Run-Flat tires
* 17" Alloy Wheels
* 4-Year/50,000-mile Warranty
* Maintenance cost $300 for each @13000 miles
* Roadside Assistance Program (Free for LIFETIME!)
Exterior Capri Blue Metallic $680
Interior Black Leather Inserts/Aluminium trim
7-Speed Automatic Transmission $1,410
COMAND DVD Navigation (easier than iDRIVE) $2,210
Heated Front Seats $680
Split-Folding Rear Seats $290
Lighting Package $790
Entertainment Pkg(Premium 12-spkr HKardon) $970
Sunroof Pkg/Power rear sunshade $1,790
Total $47,145
Well then bust out some feasible ED prices for an MB. Is it even worthwhile to do MB's ED? I've never heard of someone getting 5-6k off an MB MSRP using the Mercedes ED program.
"Now you can enjoy a 7% customer savings on C, E, S, and CLK-Coupe model European Delivery purchases".
This used to be 10% (I think) about 3-4 months ago...
http://www.bmwusa.com/bmwexperience/EuropeanDelivery/savings.htm?navid=overviewe- d
I think your info of 5-6k savings may not be current...
Uh, what?! An e90 BMW can be purchased (if one is willing to do the dealer game) for ~1k over invoice. What's "near" invoice on an MB? $200? $500?
BTW, the bmw cold weather package has your ski bag/fold down seats, bum warmers and headlight washers for $1k.
The MB you listed came out to be $2300 more expensive, plus the cost of maintenance for 4 years ($800-1000).
Not sure what you mean by MB star power...MB lost all cache the moment they joined up with Dodge. Then again, I can't see buying a car for how it's perceived by others.
An e90 330i with the toys I want (sport, comfort access, leather) is 40.8k. ED invoice price, including 1k dealer profit: $35,645. Add in the BMWCCA rebate and it's $35,145, a 5,600 savings.
That 47k MB plus extra maintenance cost doesn't seem so appealing.
Check page 3 euro delivery munich pick up. That's your starting point on ED negotiations. And there's a whole forum here devoted to it. Many people who frequent this board also have used ED.
That is a very valid argument about the ED Invoice price for BMW. But the same can be said about the MB ED Invoice price too! It is the same game...your point about the 5-6k savings is not really convincing.
But it should be possible to make safe guesses of offset ($2670) based on the MB Msrp/Invoice prices in US. Then one may also factor in the special sale events too, to achieve a rounded diff of about $3k. This diff can be used to drive down below the MB ED MSRP prices. Would this assumption be incorrect?
I can understand a couple of hundred $$ here and there, but your belief of $5-6k difference between ED of BMW and MB, is not credible. Another thing I found when talking with MB dealership is that it seems they are willing to negotiate the C-350s more than the top-selling C-230s. One can use this to advantage...
"MBs reputation during the last few years does scare me a bit. The care has been around since the fall of '00). Drive the BMW and the MB back to back and see what you think is sportier. The 3 series will come out on top."
Respectfully, I don't agree - because one of the major premises seems incorrect (about being around since fall 2000).
First of all, the engine and transmission for the C350 new to the C-class for 2006; and the transmission is new in total for 2005. I don't know how long the engine has been around - but not THAT long. Its a new car, moves faster, shifts better.
Second, the new MB C350 has greater horsepower and torque than the new BMW 330i - although they are close - not sure how this translated in the driving experience - but would have to test. I can't imagine BMW would have much of an edge - the cars are nearly as evenly matched as you can get.
Third, for me, maneuverability is a plus. The MB C-series has a tighter turning radius than the BMW 3-series. Its also 4.5" narrower - which is huge in the urban area where I live. Makes it easier to squeeze through and feel in control.
The best way to find out is to try each, and see what meets your needs. I was surprised by the new MB C-series on paper - but I can't talk too strongly in that I've only seen them not driven them.
Yes, as others have pointed out, yes they can... and it's a very nice 6-speed to boot. Short, solid throws. Best among those I tested (the others being the BMW 3-series and the Infiniti G35).
P.S.: I own two BMWs and am quite happy with both, but right now I'm salivating over an SLK-350 roadster.
With MB's recent quality/reliability problems, do you really want to take a chance on a brand-new engine and transmission.... yikes!
Second, the new MB C350 has greater horsepower and torque than the new BMW 330i - although they are close - not sure how this translated in the driving experience - but would have to test. I can't imagine BMW would have much of an edge - the cars are nearly as evenly matched as you can get.
Numbers on paper are only numbers on paper.... 0-60 times: C350 = 6.4 sec, 330i = 6.1 sec. Numbers lie.
Third, for me, maneuverability is a plus. The MB C-series has a tighter turning radius than the BMW 3-series. Its also 4.5" narrower - which is huge in the urban area where I live. Makes it easier to squeeze through and feel in control.
The MB has .8" better turning radius than the BMW.... Hardly anything noticeable. As for the MB being narrower -- C-class shoulder and hip room are considerably tighter (about 2") than the 3-series. Rearseat legroom is also 1.5" tighter in the MB.
The best way to find out is to try each, and see what meets your needs. I was surprised by the new MB C-series on paper - but I can't talk too strongly in that I've only seen them not driven them.
Exactly... specs and reviews and comparisons are just paper. There is no substitute for driving the two cars and comparing for yourself.
This is a shame, as Alpina have just output a nice diesel version of the BMW E90 3 serie.
http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=10306&artikel_seite=- 1
I translate you the specs :
displacement 1995 cm³ • 147 KW (200 HP) 4000/rpm max. torque 410 Nm(290 Lb/f) at 2000rpm Six-speed transmission fuel tank 61L Length/width/height 4520/1817/1406 mm Unloaded weight 1460 kg top speed 238 km/h = 148 mph 0-62mph (0-100km/h) 7,4s Fuel Consumption 5.7 l Diesel for 100 km Price: 35,900 euro
I think its power and torque help qualify for a sports Sedan.
The interesting fact is that Euromix Consumption is
5.7L/100 km means about 41.3 US mpg. Euromix means basically a mix of City, roads and mortoway, so this mileage is actually reachable for a careful driver.
Here is the hook : 10L/100KM fuel mileage at 125 mph sustained. that is 23.5 mpg. I don't think the future GS 350H would be able to beat this.
Price is expensive, but on the other hand, this is the cheapest Alpina offer. Alpina is said to be for BMW what AMG is for M-Benz
Since asking the question, I've taken the effort to answer it on my own. The 9-car matrix mentioned earlier (by me) has now become 11.
Would I wish to be caught dead in a Mercedes? No. OTOH, I felt much the same about BMWs until recently, but for much different reasons. I will attempt to be objective, but that Electric Red BMW 3 is calling me. I'll buy enough insurance to get me to 100K, and if it's been a trooper to that point, then I'll go bare.
My favourite road in the world upon which to evaluate cars is between Nevada & California in an area where almost no one goes. There is a corner (RH) where the road drops away & if the car isn't up to it, people die. I've done it in a 240Z, a 510, two different Miatas, an Eagle Vision, my Lincoln LS and . . . (wait for it) a Chevrolet BelAir. Some of my cars have done much better than others.
I think the 3 will eat it up. I'm not so sure about the Merc. The G35 may do well, but will have burnt much more fuel getting there, and acceleration on this road is irrelevant -- handling rules.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
MB and VW sell diesel cars in the USA. Ford, Chevy. Mopar sell diesel trucks here.
Quite simply americans tend to be myopic and ignorant, thus they have harbor opinions on diesel dating back to the 70s and 80s diesels.
First of all, I was replying to a previous post - not necessarily touting the MB C350. A lot of people throw out lists here - and exclude MB from the comparison set. The Canadian starting this recent thread included the BMW 3-series and the G35; but not the MB. I'm still puzzled about that. My purpose in the post is to point out that MB is a good option. Can't understand why so many people don't even consider it. I never said the MB was head and shoulders over the BMW; its just so many others say the BMW is great - and never consider the MB. I don't get it - they look darn close to me; with on paper a slight edge to MB for my needs.
In my car searches, I drove Volvo for the last 15 years. I've always been happy with them until my most recent purchase. Visibility is poor; turning radius is much bigger than previous version. So now I'm looking for a replacement. I didn't really consider MB at first either, until I saw the C350/C280. On paper, the new C-series fits what I'm looking for. (Small car, high performance, good visibility)
I agree the reliability issues are of some concern; although I'm not concerned with a newish engine and transmission. MB hasn't had problems there. Its been primarily electronics and some suspension from what I've seen.
The real loser of course is the consumer who will have to pay excise tax every year according to a certain percetage of MSRP for a car actually is being sold in the market place for much much less.
"In other words, anyone who buys an e90 330i in the US in a conventional purchase is ripped off to the tune of $5600, for a car that is really worth only $35-36k"
I can agree with this statement somewhat. One example, buying a brand-name suit at a discount warehouse vs. buying the same suit at an upscale store. One saves thousands buying the same suit at the former.
Of course there is not real loser. Only real customers. You can elect to pay the going rate (or market price) for the e90 (or Rolex, MB, Armani suit, TL, or steak at the Palm etc...) or not. You don't like the going rate you are always free to vote with your dollars somewhere else.
I think they recognize the value of loyal customers... and, this is a pretty useful way to identify them..
And, since it comes from BMW, and not the dealer... there is no way to "negotiate" it into the deal, if you aren't a member..
regards,
kyfdx
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don't know. don't care. It's $500 off.
Not sure how name-brandness have anything to do with effective tax rate.
For example, in MA, vehicle owner (and passed onto lessee in case of lease) is liable each year for 2.5% of Vehicle Value, which is defined as 90% of MSRP in the model year, 60% of MSRP the year after, and so on.
One interesting thing I found about NJ is that the 6% vehicle sales tax is only due if the vehicle is purchased in the state. Is that for real?? Do people then buy their cars out of state to avoid it? NJ sounds like a cool place for car nuts . . . well, 8% income tax is a bit stiff ;-(
Hey, NJ doesn't miss any opportunity to hit you with a tax, and they sure wouldn't miss a loophole this big!
And with the cost of insurance, it ain't a great place for car nuts, although I believe our income tax rate is well below 8% (at least the effective rate is, maybe that is the top tier marginal rate).
They make up for no personal property tax on cars by having killer property taxes on your house. But at least no sales tax on clothes.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I had the bad timing to lease a 2002 530i in the spring of 2002 while still living in New Jersey. They charge sales tax on the depreciated portion of the car (i.e. the difference between the negotiated price of the car and the calculated residual). Fortunately for me I got the car via the ED program and as such I only had to pay sales tax on about $14,000. The unfortunate part was that I moved up here to New Hampshire not three months later, where there is no sales tax on cars (or any other sales tax for that matter), however, there is a vehicle tax applied by our town each year when you register it, so I got dinged for nearly $1,000 twice in 2002. :-(
Of course it's still pretty easy to justify living up here, consider the following:
- Even with NJ's high property taxes, our property taxes went down about $3,000 per year by moving up here. Advantage NH.
- Our car insurance dropped about $500 per year. Advantage NH.
- Car tax difference are a wash for the first year of ownership and then anywhere from $500 to $1,200 annually for any make/model/year of vehicle that I'm likely to want to drive. Advantage NJ.
Balancing out the above three items I figure that we are about $1,500 ahead by living in New Hampshire, even with the annual vehicle tax. Then again, we don't have any sales taxes or income taxes on anything but dividends, so taking these last two items into the equation means, "Big time advantage, NH".
Best Regards,
Shipo
With those kind of taxes I dont only want to buy a car in New Hampshire, but also immigrate there.
With those kind of taxes I dont only want to buy a car in New Hampshire, but also immigrate there.
Live free or die, baby..... Live free or die.
As far as car insurance with a clean driving record you do okay here. Just don't have any claims against you or your vehicle.
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