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Bob
I wonder what the mood at work must be like.
Ken
He needed a work vehicle and ordered one with basically no options other than the Bluetooth phone hook up. From the outside, the Magnum looks fairly distinctive with it's very slim side windows. As expected, the slim windows make it seem a bit dark inside.
The interior fit and finish wasn't anything to write home about. The plastics and fabrics were fairly plain -- not offensive, but definitely not memorable. The chrome shift gate pattern looked a bit flimsy. Apparently it's the same one used in the 300C.
The seats were comfy and wide but had very little side support. The rear cargo area was wide, but relatively shallow due to the lower roofline of this vehicle.
The 3.5L V6 made a typical Dode truck-like roar, but pick up was fairly leisurely. Again, this was a bare-bones STX and it came with just the 4-speed auto. Perhaps the optional 5-speed would do better.
The steering felt overly boosted and had little road feel. Body lean was relatively controlled considering the size and soft suspension settings. The brakes took quite a bit of effort to engage and pedal modulation was difficult. Overall, I wasn't very impressed with the driving experience.
Things that I did like:
- Optional Bluetooth handsfree cellphone integration. Very cool feature that will automatically lower stereo volume, announce a call and let you speak using the built in mike.
- Adjustable pedals -- great for small drivers.
- Highway milage of 30mpg. Impressive for a vehicle of this size.
Ken
it could be the same as a 300 Touring though. I haven't been in one of those.
~c
You're brother's bare bones Magnum SXT is kinda like the 3.5 V6 300 (Touring) NOT C.
Even the seats are slightly different...
Legacy and Outback up, everything else down.
Bob
Ken
I drove the Forester on Monday and didn't get searched so perhaps that looks less suspicious? ;-)
mike: go for it, I'm sure you'll use every inch of space and every lb-ft of torque to tow. You may be the poster boy for real truck needs. Plus, GM's engines are actually more efficient than similar Dodges or Fords.
Bob: saw that lazy Susan thing on the Ody. It has run-flats (Michelin PAX) so that occupies the space vacated by the lack of any spare tire. Are the PAX equipped cars out there now working well with that system? I'd be concerned about ride quality and unsprung weight.
At least it's not the first generation of that technology, it's been out for years now.
The production RL indeed doesn't look quite as nice as the concept I got excited about, but it's still a huge improvement.
I see a tiny bit of that Bangle Butt you mentioned, but it's so subtle, and reminds me more of the Hyundai XG350 than the BMW 7.
What's funny is that the nose reminds me of Colin's EVO. The headlights, at least.
-juice
The GM vans I've rented weren't much more comfy in the 2nd row, but I'm sure the captain's chairs in the Ody or Sienna are. The Venture's seats are too low for me.
Bob - thanks for that chopped Cayenne. I'm sending you the bill for the new keyboard, since that made me barf all over it. The picture actually looks like a Magnum rear ended a 911. It sort of makes you...sad.
M-B going turbo, eh? I wonder why. I bet it's gas mileage. Off boost, you get much better EPA mileage numbers with a turbo. I bet they cut their CAFE fines in half.
-juice
the reasons for M-B going turbo were articulated pretty well in the article. efficiency is one, and modern turbos' ability to spool quickly is another. the latter defeats erodes any advantage a supercharger would have.
~c
cusafr
http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=3194&cat- egoryId=12
Same with the next Tahoe. Both are MUCH better looking vehicles!
http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=3193
Bob
It will offer optional 8-passenger seating.
Bob
besides those two I'd look at the Mazda 3. unfortunately in the case of all three, $15,000+ttl is likely only enough to get base models. I wouldn't suggestion optioning them to the moon, but I just don't know what you'll be able to do... maybe a year-end special?
I'd consider used an low mileage. the Mazda 3 especially, it probably depreciates faster than the Civic or Corolla.
~c
You should be able to buy a new (2004) civic for that price. I just bought a new civic-ex-5-speed for 16,000, so the LX should be in reach. For sure the VP, but for just that little bit more, the EX...
cusafr
I'm curious, because I didn't think the Legacy launch was all that successful. I'd particularly wonder how much the Legacy launch cost compared to the 2005 Outback launch (or if that's one and the same), the 2004 STi launch and the 2002 WRX launch.
~c
Bob
~c
That Ody link takes you to the JDM model which is different, so I'm not sure I'd trust that source.
OK, under $15k is slim pickings, if you stretch a little Fitzmall.com has an RS sedan 5 speed for $15,949.
Below your limit, here is what I found:
Accord DX manual, $14,320
Civic VP auto, $13,175
Civic VP auto w/SAB, $13,403
Mazda 3i manual, $14,490
Nissan Sentra, $13,399
Toyota Corolla LE 5 speed, $13,940
Corolla LE auto, $14,405
Matrix, $14,722
Scion xB manual, $13,856
Scion xB auto, $14,656
Scion xA auto, $13,426
Honda prices are from brownscar.com, the rest are fitzmalll.com. I listed the cheapest car, so ones with more options would cost more, obviously.
I also threw in some wagons and hatchbacks because they're more practical and still fall within your price range.
You didn't specify if you want auto or manual, though.
-juice
Just keep in mind you have to spend about $33 grand to get that from Subaru, to this day.
-juice
You've done the research, now just drive them and let emotion make the choice from this point. One other little tidbit of advice - see if the dealers have any 2 year old versions lying around. Not to buy, but rather to give you an idea of how they wear, squeaks rattles etc. 2 of 3 used Hondas I tried had squeeky/rattly (?sp) seat belt latches, but their seats held shape better than the Corollas.
Nicholas
The Civic lost the double wishbone front suspension for this latest generation, but at least it's 4 wheel indy.
The Mazda3 is my pick because it's new and shares a platform with a Volvo, so you get that trickle-down goodness from the luxury manufacturer's input. OTOH you might consider it a Ford product now.
The Scions wins for space. But they too have the rear torsion beam, I believe.
-juice
It says it's compatible with Subaru factory stereos but I sent them an email anyway just to double check. I'll let you know what they say.
Anyway, seems like a pretty seemless integration as it will keep the iPod charged and let you control it with the CD changer controls.
Has anybody heard how well it works?
Cheers!
-Ian
Edit: Just found another site with info on this product: http://www.densionusa.com/x/index.php?option=content&task=vie- - w&id=375&Itemid=79. It says that this system will work with any 2001+ Clarion OEM Subaru system. Of course it also mentions that it's not yet available. Maybe if we all put our email addresses on the wait list it will get them to speed things up. ;-)
I wonder if Mazda did massage that 2.3l enough to make it noticeably more reliable? What about the other stuff like the tranny, and other parts of the powertrain?
Once bitten, twice shy, our experience with a 626 has me skeptical about Mazda. It didn't help that the new 6 has rust/staining problems and Mazda never really resolved that issue.
-juice
What would be fantastic is if the fourth (down) position on the stock head unit would be usable for an iPod.
Ken
juice: Wife is particular about auto this time as she has a 50 mile daily commute. I am concerned about Mazda's reliability after warranty. Moreover, comparably equipped Mazda-3i costs well over $18,000. Scion mileage is just awful for a 105hp engine. I know it has to do with the shape. Matrix seems to be ok but when comparably equipped costs more than Corolla/Civic when comparably equipped and doesn't get as good mileage. I will look into Sentra numbers. We have to buy Civic EX to be able to get ABS which sucks. So wife is leaning towards Corolla.
To be honest, I have only owned Subarus and it is hard to convince myself to shell out $$ on a non-subaru car now( :
Civic VP doesn't have ABS? Man, Honda is pathetic on the low end of their models with safety content.
Every Subie since MY2002 has had ABS standard, no excuses, every model, every price.
Go for that RS, though. Get the Chase Subaru card and you'll even make it up slowly as you pay for service. $900 won't take much time, 2 years or less if you charge a lot.
-juice
CRaig
<scratches head in wonder>
Oh well, the links are still there. We'll see.
-Ian
I guess I'm not clear on the rules, I thought things had loosened up.
Craig
I believe the 6 CD headunit on my '03 WRX is a Panasonic
-Dave
Already the 2005 Legacy is being sold for invoice or less. The more prominent upscale brands stay close to MSRP for a whole lot longer.
One person said they paid $400 under invoice, which means dealers are already dipping into their holdback. That'll hurt residual values down the road.
Saito was canned because he was "just" targeting Audi? That means FHI is aiming higher, at BMW and Mercedes I presume?
Oh boy...
-juice
I don't fault Subaru, as they are "easing" in to the premium market, and are not trying to make this move upmarket overnight, in one model year.
Also—and more important—the public does not yet perceive Subaru in that "premium" light yet. Again, this will take several years to change.
Bob
I don't want to own a luxury car.
-juice
~c
Also, keep in mind that this crossover will most likely always be positioned above the Legacy, just as the Legacy will always be positioned over the Impreza.
So if the crossover scares some of us because of costs, that doesn't necessarily translate into the same for existing Subaru models. Yeah, they will get more expensive too, but will not be nearly as affected with the upmarket push as the crossover is. Remember, Subaru still will have to court younger, less affluent customers, and bring them into their family.
On a similar note, the Europeans are very interested in entering the premium small car market. I see them offering models that will compete with future Imprezas—which will be more premium than they currently are, but not "so premium" as to scare off too many customers.
________________
Halifax/Tribeca
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Outback, Legacy
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Forester, Baja
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Impreza
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Bob
I don't know that I've ever heard of the Subaru Bob.
;-) LOL!
-Ian