By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Your father in law probably won't ever have any problems with it. It's a great car mechanically. Hard to beat those Japanese when it comes to build quality.
tom
Mike, you'll probably go through another 15 cars by the time you actually buy! ;-)
If I don't find an impreza by then maybe you can sell me yours! ;-)
tom
SRT8 is cool, but I doubt AWD and pricing will likely be sky high on that one.
-mike
'Pop-up' pool? Yep, taking it down was a bit of a pain. The spot I put it was not quite level, and the drain ended up on the high side. Plus it took about 200ft of hose and had to make a custom fitting in order to empty it.. Scrubbed the inside with mild bleach solution to get rid of what grew (very little...) when I stopped treating it, hosed it down and towel dried. Got a hernia (yo, doc, do you do housecalls?) bagging it and getting it down the cellar stairs for winter storage. Get to repeat it all in the Spring! But the fun the kids had makes it all worth it.
Steve
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a_EbuO.- geURo&refer=top_world_news
Bob
No AWD version on the SRT-8. It's a limited production as well.
mike - the SRT-8 version of the 300 might have enough torque for you! LOL
Also check towing capacities, I think it's pretty weak - 1000 lbs IIRC. Might not matter but in a pinch you will not have a backup tow vehicle.
Raider isn't very close to that Mitsu truck concept we saw at NAIAS, remember that one Bob? The the seats that would slide into the open bed?
STi vs. EVO?
To me this is very simple. I do not fit in the EVO! Those seats pinch me big time, at 205 lbs. It's built for skinny folks, so it could be Jet Li's ride but not Arnold's or Steven Seagal's.
My guess is a "test fit" will go a long way towards determining which one would be for you.
-juice
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101084
Bob
Remember something - the RX400H is pure FWD from the engine, in fact there is no rear differential and there are no rear driveshafts.
Given Porsche is mostly RWD, well, they would have to install everything backwards!
That's just plain nuts.
I can see them licensing the technology, like Ford did, however.
VW van was expected, though we will not get the cool concept they showed a while back. In fact we'll get the same thing Europe will get, which will likely be interesting but ill-suited to US buyers.
-juice
Question is how will they get the price down that much if it's nearly the same size?
And it's supposed to compete in the $21-23k arena yet they list the X3 as a competitor? That just sounds bizarre. Most X3s cost more than Touareg V6s do.
-juice
Maybe so, but it's still full-time AWD as far as I know. Not sure how (or if) the Porsche tranny/transfer case would work. If it weren't possible I think Porsche engineers would know that. I mean why even consider it if it can't be done? In any event, it's an interesting concept.
Bob
Remember that display at NY (and at the recent Lexus event)? The gas engine only powers the front wheels. So the RX400H is based on the FWD RX330, and *not* the AWD RX330.
The FWD hybrid powers the front wheel with batteries.
The AWD hybrid add battery power to the rear wheels. But that would be part-time. The batteries could not withstand power being applied to them full-time.
So it's part-time and FWD based, i.e. not something Porsche could adapt with a straight face!
-juice
Pigs will fly before the RX400H's entire powertrain finds its way into a Porsche.
-juice
I would think towing would be the same or near the Magnum at around 3000lbs which would be fine for my dad to use towing the pontoon boat or utility trailer in a pinch.
-mike
common features:
- plenty of power with both doing 13.3-13.5 second quartermile under magazine test conditions. under less abusive real-world driving, they're not as fast due to avoiding harsh AWD launches.
- 'in your face' styling
- suspension that is heavily handling biased and offers little ride comfort
- no near-luxo features
- both* have HID headlamps
- acceptable fuel mileage for the HP delivered
- noisy, harsh-riding, super sticky summer-only original equipment tires
- unbelivably powerful brakes (same Brembo calipers on both cars)
- excellent visibility compared to other sporty cars due to lots of glass and the tall rallycar stance (compare with 350Z and RX-8)
company differences:
- Subaru has never been remotely as large as Mitsubishi, but Mitsubishi's size is definitely not an advantage when they have tremendous debt and rapidly fading brand image. If Mitsubishi were anything but a semi-nationalized Japanese company they would have folded / sold long ago, but I'm not sure that they are going anywhere just yet.
- Mitsubishi reliability is at least as good as Subaru (headgaskets anyone?), but they are extremely aggressive about denying warranty on vehicles that are raced, have been modified, etc in the event you do have a problem. Subaru as a company is better about it, and weighing in the "Patti" factor there's no comparison.
Evo RS:
- unreal performance for only $28,199.
- no sound deadening, no trunk lining, no HID headlights, no wing, no ABS, no power locks, no power windows.
- no resale value IMO because of the above, except to young sportcompact enthusiasts or real rally- / road-racers.
- narrower seats fit drivers below 200lb better than the STi seats
- aftermarket cruise control can be added for about $300. mine (Rostra) is much better than nothing but not near as good as OEM.
- much more neutral handling than the STi, whose pronounced understeer is felt under hard cornering
- ultra-quick steering with good road feel
- larger and more sophisticated turbocharger than the STi uses, but 19.5psi doesn't arrive until 3,500 rpm.
- truly useable backseat that is Subaru Legacy-sized.
- gas tank is a bit small at 14.0 gallons and is at least a gallon smaller than the Impreza.
- five speed gearbox is perfect for all but extended high speed highway use (about 3400 rpm at 80)
Evo GSR changes from RS:
- at $30,499 it offers everything that the STi does except DCCD and a six speed, for about $2,000 less.
- in my opinion, the hood vent is a lot more attractive and less obnoxious than the STi's hood scoop.
- hood vent is functional; massive heat waves can readily be seen as it is just over the turbocharger and air flows through the grille / radiator and then out the vent.
- interior is simple but does not look cheap in my opinion (look in a regular Lancer, hehe).
Evo RS changes from GSR:
- at $34,999 it is a poor value.
- ADM is likely, but if you hunt around enough you can probably find one for MSRP. unfortunately that is still not a fair price to me for this trim level.
- while it might be functional, I find the rear diffuser (comb-looking device at the top of the rear glass) to be ugly and unnecessary.
- gunmetal wheels do nothing for me, but they are forged aluminum like the STi wheels.
- six speed is very similar to STi, which is to say it will be a bit annoying in normal driving but nice to turn a few hundred RPM less at 80+ MPH on the highway.
- active center differential has tarmac, gravel and snow modes. many purchasers will use the vehicle only on tarmac, but it is roughly equivalent to the STi's DCCD.
- no active yaw control rear differential like the Japanese and European market Evo GSR and MR have.
WRX STi
- $32,295 is a decent price, but you can have one for invoice or a few hundred over, which makes it very competitive with Evo GSR and MR.
- considerably better torque than the Evo below 3,500 rpm-- only relevant in normal commuting/driving. doesn't matter at all when driving hard.
- DCCD's auto mode is probably better than the Evo MR's tarmac setting but it is overall less intuitive for users. many people would not know to set 50/50 in gravel and in heavy snow use 50/50 locked, even if it is suggested in the owner's manual.
- steering feel and speed improved for '05 but still lags behind the Evo
- wider sport seats are better for larger frames
- back seat is tight
- you either love or you hate the tall hood scoop. the wings on both cars are pretty wild.
- standard side airbags if you care. I don't.
whew.
~Colin
Owen
You know your Evos. ;-)
Ken
while it might be functional, I find the rear diffuser (comb-looking device at the top of the rear glass) to be ugly and unnecessary.
That's a row of vortex generators; you will see the same thing on most commercial transport aircraft wings. Unfortunately, in the aircraft world they are often a kludge, used to make up for shortfalls in the wing performance.
Looking at the Evo, I have to believe they are at least 50% there for drama, I bet they look cool to a lot of people. Their true functionality could be gauged by taping some tufts to the rear window and seeing what the flow looks like. The flow would have to be massively separated to justify something like that.
CRaig
http://www.subarukenya.com/
Bob
http://www.subaru.com.ua/news_Legacy_Best_Car_2004.htm
Bob
I bet this is how SOA is getting rid of all those excess Baja parts and vehicles, since it clearly isn't selling here. I wonder how that vehicle is being recieved down there?
http://www.subaru.cl/portal/page?_pageid=332,49329&_dad=porta- - l&_schema=PORTAL
Bob
Thanks again.
Patti
Of course the fact that you can only get an Outback in five colours is neiter here nor there
Cheers
Graham
Craig-- you're right, I was describing the vortex generator. a diffuser is something usually found at the bottom of a car, correct? and usually only in the rear unless it's an open wheel racer... I think.
oh hey, one more quick note about the Evo. I had been averaging 21.5 mpg in mixed city/hwy driving (about 2/3 highway) during the summer. I drive fairly aggressively and see redline at least once a day, although with the Evo it's usually not necessary to go hard past 5,500 rpm. anyway now that I haven't been using AC, I am now seeing almost 24 mpg without a change in my driving style. just did a roadtrip to Kansas City last weekend with my girlfriend and we averaged almost 26 mpg including substantial time navigating city roads.
~Colin
Minor clarification but I think the STi gets the 15.9 gallons tank so it's almost 2 gallons extra. Not that it should even matter to someone shopping for cars like these.
The key issue which Colin brought up is "paisan sized" adults just can't squeeze into those EVO seats! I couldn't fit!
-juice
Me thinks you have waaaaayyyyy too much time on your hands!!
Bob does a monthly scan of all Subaru related sites in order to share news with us. Often they are just curiosities (like Ukraine gettin the Spec
-juice
Colin -- 24mpg is great considering the vehicle and driving style.
"The Patti factor" certainly weighed in heavily in my decision to buy my 05 LGT wagon.
Ken
Yes, diffusers are usually in the form of "tunnels" under the vehicle that open up in the back end. A diffuser is a fluid dynamic device that creates a pressure rise. By placing the exit at the back of the car and the entrance under the car, the pressure rise works backward to create low pressure under the car, adding downforce. It's a really cool idea.
I worked on improving the performance of a diffuser for one of Dan Gurney's Toyotas many years ago. Basically, we were trying to make the diffuser shorter and more agressive without causing the flow to separate internally. One solution was to put vortex generators inside the tunnel to keep the flow energized and attached. Pretty cool stuff.
Craig
I'd be saying, "No Dan, let me drive this time, take a little break."
-juice
Every now and then I check obscure Subie sites that are linked on the Subie Global site. You never know what you might find...
Bob
Or is that just my impression?
-juice
Priced to compete with the Grand Cherokee. Bummer that it has the I-5 engine found in the Colorado/Canyon.
I find it amazing that Jeep let this ultra-rugged off-road market fall through the cracks. Only the stone-age Wrangler retains that "image" that was earned in WWII. This was Jeep's market to lose, and they did just that...
Bob
the 3.5L inline 5 seemed like a great engine to me, although I have to admit I only spent a few minutes in my co-worker's truck.
~c
Voting Machine
-Dave
Grand Cherokee will have the V8 Hemi and this heavy beast will have an I-5?
The overdone fender flares look out of place. If you look at the H1 and H2, the sides are actually flat, with no flares at all.
The windows, grille, and the tires give it a Hummer look, but it seems only surface deep.
This SUV should have gotten the V8 from the TrailBlazer, not the I-5.
-juice
Maybe give it TWO I5s, build a V10. LOL
-juice
~c
The Hummer H3 will be heavy, watch. The TrailBlazer starts at 4600 lbs, and I bet the H3 will weigh more than that.
Put in a 5 cylinder known for power and not torque, and mate it up to a 5000 lbs or so Hummer, and you might need low range just to get it rolling!
-juice
I am en route to that other place where cars with horizonally opposed engines are built.
Ed
But what country? I'll guess Germany now, heading to the UK?
-juice
Have only seen one Subie thus far, a last-gen Legacy wagon in that very bright orange-gold.
Ed
~Colin
Just passed several rail cars full of Cayennes. That and the Red Sox winning the Series (They're up 3-0, right? Not that anyone cares over here) are signs of the apocalypse.
Ed