Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I would think at least a V-8(no RL, sorry Bob)

    Gotta disagree with you Tom, but you're making the rules...

    If only S-Class/7-Series level vehicles count, then I agree with you. However, if you allow E-Class/5-Series level vehicles, then the 300 HP RL surely qualifies. BTW, if it's driven very conservatively most of the time, why is a V8 a requirement (other than for bragging rights, of course)?

    Regardless, it would be my choice. Why spend $65K – $100K when a $48K car does everything you want? Even the wealthy can appreciate great value.

    Bob
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Sorry Bob, it has to be a luxury car and bragging rights are part of buying much more car than you need. As nice as the new RL is, Acura is still near luxury and would only get you laughed at down at the country club, unless it was your beater car. ;-) To go along with this, the v8 badge is part of the "show" of these cars, which is the only real reason to spend so much money on them, I guess.

    It's true, I would never spend this much on a car, but I was asked to help find a car with the above parameters. I was thinking other possibilities include the MB CL, 6 series, LS430, Infinit Q, XJ, A8, Maserati, and perhaps the new STS. Am I missing anything? Oh, it can be a coupe as long as it seats 4 fairly comfortably (no 911-which I suggested. ;-( )

    There are a lot less people that can spend $100K than the $48K of the RL, bob, even though it's a very nice car. Heck, I don't even want to spend $48K if I don't have to though. Even though I'm not wealthy, I appreciate the value of my Subie!

    tom
  • rthompson10rthompson10 Member Posts: 75
    Mr Magoo here hit the curb and blew out my tire.

    Got it changed., but I couldn't figure out how to take the fuse cover off to put it into FWD- $EAT so it's maily FWD. I see on the fuse cover where it says OPEN but I can't get it

    My other question is I may have bent the rim- any suggestions for cheap replacements or does any one know pricing on the OB standard rims??
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    There should be a tab on the front side of the fuse box cover. Can't remember if you push it in or pull it out (gently, of course). Anyway, once you get the front loose, pivot it up and pull it forward.

    HTH,
    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Tom, your definition of luxury and mine obviously differ somewhat.

    I just spent the last 6 hours at a Lexus event. I got to test drive a Jag XJ8 roadster, Lexus SC430 (as well as as all the other Lexus models), Caddy's new Corvette-based roadster (SLR?), BMW 330i, 545i & 745i, MB S430, Range Rover and a bunch of other "premium" models.

    While I haven't driven the new RL yet, based on what I've seen and read, and my knowledge of Acura, I'd most likely take the new RL over them all if I were in that market. Even if I didn't buy one, I certainly consider that vehicle. I think your friend would be shortchanging himself if weren't at least on the list to look at.

    Bob
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    tsy wrote:
    Alright, if you had up to $100K or so (but you don't have to use it all- let's say $65-100K) to spend on a large sedan, what would you choose?

    It should be balanced- not all out performance (no M, AMG, etc) while sacrificing comfort, but it shouldn't be a wallowing boat either. Of course, a luxury car with the prestige behind it (ok to take to the country club-so no VWs!), I would think at least a V-8(no RL, sorry Bob), reasonably reliable to 75K miles (driven less than 10K/yr), it won't see weather worse than some rain, and it will be driven very conservatively most of the time. Oh, and nothing used.

    What would you get and why?

    Thanks for the help

    tom
    I disagree that no VW could command respect and attention when wheeling into the country club parking lot. If one suspends the "no VWs!" rule, then the Phaeton W12 fits your requirements.

    MSRP = $96,100
    Gas Guzzler = $3,000
    Destination = $614
    Total Price = $99,714

    Why? It'd probably out-perform anything else considered luxury in the CC parking lot that meets your restrictions: luxury car, no M, AMG, etc., comfortable seating for 4. And it's small sales numbers might imbue it with a slight aura of collectibility, maintaining resale value. Plus, you'd likely always be bumped to the head of the service queue at the VW dealer, and everyone knows that CC parking lot bragging rights belong to the guy who paid the highest gas guzzler tax. :)
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Hi Bob

    No, I didn't make the rules. I'm just presenting them. The Acura doesn't have the name value.

    When you mean the Jag XJ8 roadster, do you mean the XK8? Did you drive the sedan? The sedan is newer, lots of aluminum to make it lighter, and seems pretty nice. I haven't driven one yet.

    Jon, for the same reason above (I didn't make the rules), no matter how expensive and nice of a VW it is (and it is nice, and very expensive!), it just won't cut it to people that don't understand a car is more than the name on the decklid.

    Anyway, I'd love to hear more opinons (or arguments!) so I can make an educated suggestion.

    thanks

    tom
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Those rules are fair, at least in the rich-folks kind of way.

    I'd choose the E500 or S500 4-matic.
    300C AWD
    STS AWD
    A8L

    -mike
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    tsy,
    If your "client" has $100K to spend, then they're likely acquainted with the Robb Report (unless your client's just won the lotto). Why not select from the Robb Report 2004 Car of the Year?

    http://www.robbreport.com/Articles/Wheels/2004-Articles/Special-T- hemes/Car-of-the-Year-2004/Index.asp
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    When you mean the Jag XJ8 roadster, do you mean the XK8? Did you drive the sedan?

    Roadster, whichever that one is. In any case it was unimpressive. Same with the Lexus SC 430 roadster.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    No, I didn't make the rules. I'm just presenting them. The Acura doesn't have the name value.

    But you are making editorial decisions as to what "qualifies" as a high value nameplate. Did this person whom you are representing say, "no Acuras," or is that you injecting your personal opinion?

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    By the rules as they are presented:

    Either the MB S500 4-matic or Audi A8L.

    Why? AWD and loads of snob appeal.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Same with the Lexus SC 430 roadster.

    I see this as pretty much 99% a rich housewive's car for the burbs. Don't know of anyone other than that demographic that owns or drives one.

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    having driven the S500 4matic today at the MB event, I'd put in my vote for it as well. Although, I'd really have a tough time deciding between the rwd S500 with 7speed automatic and the 5speed AT in the 4matic. The 7sp AT is in the SL500 as well and is simply fantastic. No need for the manual mode it has, the thing was always in the right gear where ever it was on the course. I'm certain the S500 with the 7sp (and RWD) would also have been perfect. The 4matic was good as well, but to make it a bit more sporty, the manual mode was needed.

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Can you imagine using the manual mode on a 7-speed automatic? You would never know which gear to select, as there are so many to choose from! Also, I'm not sure that it would be that much fun, or better still, satisfying. I mean with a 5L mega-horsepower engine, and 7 gears to play with, it really doesn't make much difference what gear you're in. I think I would get bored pretty quickly.

    With that many gears, I'd probably just leave it in the full-auto mode, and let it do its thing. :)

    Bob
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    OK Bob, I was hoping to get a quick opinion without answering too many questions (I'm starting to sound like a politician!)

    I need to buy a car for my mother (with her money, not mine), and she wants an S500, but it's going to be replaced next year and my dad hates MBs. Since they're not too computer savvy I don't want anthing too difficult for them to use (like i-drive or COMMAND) and while she drives pretty conservatively most of the time, she can have a lead foot now and then (must be where I got mine). She also doesn't really know anything about cars, hence the name on the trunk is everything. If you put a 'Lexus' badge on a camry she might not notice!

    I know her tastes, as well as her SoCal CC friends- so I know an Acura simply will not do. Unfortunately, snob appeal is very important in this situation. AWD is not terribly high on the need list for her as it rarely get's too slippery down there.

    I'm trying to come up with alternatives and was wondering about everyone here's opinions as you all have lots of experience driving other cars I haven't had a chance to.

    Jon, good idea with the Robb report. But do they really know anything about cars? It does give some perspective though.

    Mike- actually, I'm looking for a rich housewive's car! I don't think she wants a convertible, but I'll ask.

    Finally, it's a car I get to drive around when I visit, so if I could sneak in something fun it would be good! (but I have to stay objective and responsible here)

    Anyway, please, more opinions and why you would buy it if you had a disposable income (or maybe you do have one and we don't know it! ;-) )

    I realize this is somewhat of a frivolous exercise but it can be fun to spend other people's money!

    Thanks again
    Sorry to give you such a hard time Bob ;-)

    tom
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    With that in mind....

    A8L
    New STS
    or CTS V

    -Mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    now that I (we) have a better understanding of the situation. Hope I didn't offend you with my tone.

    Judging by what you have just said, what about the latest new RWD Cadillac STS, with the Northstar engine? Caddys probably still have name value with many older folks.

    FWIW, one of the real surprises in today's Lexus event, was that new Cadillac sports car. It's based on the Corvette chassis, but with the Northstar engine. Frankly I blown away by it! It's got gobs of power, handles beautifully, and has a retractable hard top too, like the MB SL/SLK models.

    Bob
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Lexus LS all the way....

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think it's less powerful than the vette however, "northstar" isn't what it used to be IIRC.

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    So, we headed down to Arlington Park in the Chicago area for the MB event today. Temperature at the start was about 37F with a 15mph wind, but sunny. I mistakingly left my coat at home since I'd be in cars all day, not planning for long lines or the wind. Seat heaters felt really nice in each car!

    Signin and proceed to a multimedia area. A central tent with an audio/video presentation, numerous specialty beverages (non alcoholic), a Benjamin Moore paint display, and a relax area were all inside. I, however, was not there to lounge around inside, so I immediately headed out to the track.

    3 tracks: performance (coupes), offroad (suv), and traction (sedans/4matic). All vehicles had automatics - 5sp or 7sp with manual modes. All had ESP modes ON and we were instructed to not turn this off. Evidently, yesterday someone in an SL500 (stickers for $100k) hit some cones (and probably something else) because of this. The speed limit on the track was 'do not hit any cones'. If you did, you were escorted off the premises. Also, apparently people spend too much time futzing with the mirrors and the radios, so they had to remind people to get in, adjust your seat, fasten your seat belt, and proceed. With the lines building and the chilly temps, it was good advice for those actually shopping these! ;-)

    I headed over to the sedan track first and tried out the E320 CDI. Feels heavy, steering is 'soft', turbo lag is certainly there. But, wow, boy does that thing go when it's 'on'. 300+ torque, IIRC. Little soft and lean in the corners, but decent driveability and comfortable. Not sure how CDI would fit in at a Country Club, but this vehicle could also suffice for someone looking to spend >$50k could be quite happy with the lower fuel bill here.

    Next I drove the C320 and the E500. I like the roominess of the E series, but the C feels much more nimble with it's smaller size. 4matic and the ESP make it easy to keep the car inside the cones. They had water on a slippery portion of the track and sand at the ABS testing area, as well as a corner. Slalom areas on all tracks were not very tight, was easy to almost go in fairly straight most of the time.

    Seeing the lines for the coupes expand beyond the tents they had setup, I decided to head over and begin my frigid wait. 20 minutes in the SL500 line, even with 2 of them on the track. 60+ on the acceleration portion of the track and then full hard on the brakes (they even said to test the ABS out - just get full on the brakes at the brake point on the course). Wow, how does that tranny know I'm ready to accelerate out of the turn? Couldn't even feel it shift. The engine note is more noticeable in the coupes.

    Tried the CLK320 as well. Much more 'tame' than the SL500. Some road noise from the convertible top (of course, it was up and the heat was on). Both of these coupes really aren't my thing, very long doors and a low sporty seating position. Nice seating though, and decent performance in the lower models. Would have loved to try a MT on one of these, just seems more suited for a coupe. But that 7sp AT sure makes things easy.

    I needed to get warm. The car rides were nice since the heaters were on and the seats were nice and toasty. So, I headed over to the 'no-lines, no-waiting' SUV area. Unfortunately, you don't drive these, the MB people do. Probably why there is no line. But, you do get to experience the awd systems in the G500 and the M350 and M500. The M has independent suspension. I went in the M350: it handles the first obstacle, a 28 degree incline/decline. Automatic braking is engaged on the decent, making the automatic tranny behave more like a manual would off-road. Next up was a side slope. Felt like we were almost 40 degrees tilted. Finally, the articulation section. That's the area where they get 2 wheels off the ground on opposite sides of the vehicle. They also stress how the frame doesn't twist in this situation - doors are still able to be opened. While sitting idle with 2 wheels in the air, the 2 wheels spun slightly. The computer already knows you're in a traction situation, so it's ready to begin once you go on the pedal. Immediately power moves to the wheels with traction and the vehicle comes down the slope.

    Had to go for a ride in the G500. Solid axles here. Nothing really here except the M felt a bit nervous on the articulation section. The G really took it much better and seemed more at home.

    Warmed up, I headed back over to the sedan track. Snuck in a few rides in the C320 4matic again and then the S500 4matic. The S500 is incredible. Not a sports car, though you can very slightly hear the roar when you get on it. Very quiet and comfortable though. Handled the course well, even for being bigger and heavier. Steering is tuned nicely, much 'quicker' than the E-CDI. If I had $100k laying around and had to spend it on a car, this certainly would be on my list, especially if the 7sp AT in RWD peforms as well as I'd expect it to in 'auto' mode.

    2.5 hours total, after going into the central tent for a cup of coffee to warm up. Then a quick survey and a bag of ritzy goodies. 3 tennis balls, a coupon for $1500 off a new MB, and some other sponsor stuff. A little jar of a paint in fancy pink color from the paint sponsor. Pretty sure I'll never use that jar of paint...

    -Brian
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    paisan Oct 17, 2004 10:04pm

    Have you thought of the McLaren F1?...
    when you come into $$$ in the bank :)

    paisan teasing(s) aside, it'll be a perfectly balanced car F-R and side-to-side.

    -Dave
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Ok, so far:

    Mike- A8L or STS/CTS-V
    Bob- S500 or A8L (after some arm twisting ;-) )
    Brian- S500
    Craig- LS 430
    Jon- Phaeton or Robb Report ;-)
    Dave- Maclaren F1 (uh, $100,000, not $1,000,000) ;-) How about another vote, Dave?

    Interesting, no BMWs, no Jags, no Maserati
    Pretty balanced voting.

    Thanks for your input all. I'm not sure I have an easy conclusion to come to though. I'm getting the sense that it probably doesn't matter much at this level of play- they're all nice cars!

    Bob, Brian, thanks for the write ups, they've been helpful. You both seem to think the S500 is a nice piece of work. Also, Cadillac has really come that far, huh? How do you get invited to one of these drive events? Are you going to use the MB coupon? ;-)

    Thanks again guys

    tom
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I'll go for the Jaguar XK-8R convertible
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Chuck, does that have a 'useable' back seat. It needs to be a functional 'sedan' (used loosely here) for 4 adults. I'm not sure the XK fits into that category. Nice looking cars though.

    tom
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Switch it to the XJ8R
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    The coupon has my name on it, they fill that in for you upon receipt of it. Sorry. :(

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd have said S500 but you didn't want the MBs... :)

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    M5. awful rear leg room, but who cares. $15-20k under budget depending on how it is equipped. :)

    ~c
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Tom

    In all honesty, I think you mom would be better off with a Lexus LS430 (again, given the ground rules), but I'm of the impression anything from Japan doesn't have the image you desire.

    As to how I get invited to these events? Who knows? I must be on some sort of Internet car list of some sort. I get invited to a 1/2 dozen or so each year. So does juice and several others here.

    Bob
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Ok, revised edition with some additions:

    Mike- S500, A8L or STS/CTS-V
    Bob- S500 or A8L (after some arm twisting ;-) )
    Brian- S500
    Craig- LS 430
    Jon- Phaeton or Robb Report ;-)
    Dave- Maclaren F1 ????
    Chuck- XJR
    Colin-M5 (Too fast for my mom!) and I thought it wasn't due out until next year?

    MB S500 still leads the pack.
    Finally, a BMW and one Jag
    Maybe Jon and Dave could vote again?
    Anyone else have a good idea?

    Brian- oh well. Thanks anyway! How was the S500 compared to the LS 430 w/sport suspension (does it really do much?)

    Bob- you might be right- I think it makes the most sense. It's the 'value leader' of the bunch. Not much fun to drive for me though!
    It must be fun to go to these things. Ever get invited to a Porsche drive event? ;-)

    tom
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I haven't driven any Lexus models (or is that Lexi?), so I can't compare it to the LS.

    It is fun to go to these type of events. GM has one (auto in motion), BMW has one (Ultimate Drive), etc. You can usually find out about them at the manufacturers respective websites. Hopefully they have something in your area that you can start attending!

    -Brian
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    How about eight Hyundai Elantras? One for each day of the week plus a spare? ;-)

    I vote for a Jag XJ or Merc S class.

    BTW, I think Dave was suggesting the F1 for paisan, not your mom.

    DaveM
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    Tom,

    How about taking your mom to test drive a few of these to find out which one SHE likes best?

    From comments you made earlier I figure:
    1) she would not care for iDrive, so no Bimmer
    2) your dad doesn't like MB, so not that either

    So that leaves Lexus, Jag, and Audi. Motor Trend recently rated the Audi A8L #1. The Jag 4th or tied for 5th. I think the Lxus was 2nd...but does it have the cachet she's looking for? So see which of these three she likes best.

    If she's only keeping it a year, I'd say go for the Audi. Any repairs would be under warranty.

    Jim

    PS - Hearing the thoughts about no VW, will Subaru be accepted by the "tony" up-market crowd???
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    DaveM- somehow I don't think she'll go for the 8 Hyundais ;-)

    Jim- she's in the process of trying out a lot of these cars, although I told her to skip the Bimmer because I don't think she'll get i-drive (I don't think I get it!). I think the Jag may be a distinct possibility, but who knows? I told them the Audi was a nice car but they consider Audi a step below MB and BMW, maybe even Lexus.

    Brian- thanks for the pics. The CLS looks nice. Those G-waggens are amazing!

    tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Get her to drive each of these:

    Audi A8l
    Benz S500 4Matic (her husband can walk if he doesn't like it)
    Lexus LS430 (really loaded up)
    Cadillac STS
    BMW M5 (a left over one)

    I think based on her criteria I'd pick the A8l.

    200 years from now the aluminum body will still not be rusted out. And MMI supposedly isn't as bad as iDrive.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Subaru Upmarket, I highly doubt we'll ever see it accepted by the CC crowd ever. That's whay I keep saying they need to link up with Saab and make Saab the Lexus of Subaru.

    -mike
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Mike- I totally agree with you. With Saab they could make a move upmarket much more easily. Do people really care where Saabs are made? I would buy a Saab if I knew deep inside it was really a Subaru. ;-)

    Thanks for the help guys. Here's what I've decided to present:

    1. LS 430- if it had an MB badge it'd be perfect
    2. XJ Vanden Plas- all aluminum, really nice piece of work. English comfort, style, it's different, and if she really wants more power there's always the XJR.
    3. STS- but I'm concerned because it's the first year
    4. A8L- nice car, but I don't think she'll buy into the Audi name
    5. S500- I just can't see plunking down $90k on a car that's going to be replaced next year.
    6. 745iL- But I don't see her using i-drive, which means she won't be able to control a lot of stuff in the car, like the radio!
    7. A Legacy GT ltd, an OB VDC, and an STi- just had to throw that in. ;-). But it's not a bad idea!

    Thanks again guys. I think I got some good ideas. I'll tell you how it turns out!

    tom
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    The 9-2x Linear is an Impreza RS wagon boosted in price from $17,900 to $23,900. There is more sound insulation, the WRX STi steering rack, retuned suspension and Saab styling. Is that worth $5000? I don't think so. On top of that it is very marginally equipped. My wife priced one with the 6 disk stereo, leather, cold weather package, xenon headlights and sunroof. At $29,000 it still did not have power seats, auto climate control (which is available in the more expensive WRX clone the Aero) homelink,or an auto dimming mirror which are all on my wife's $28,000 Solara that she had thought of trading in. Badge engineering with price spikes like that won't get too many buyers. No wonder Subaru does not sell a luxury version of the RS or WRX wagons. Who'd buy the Saab?
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    How about them Red Sox?
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Whohoooooooo!!!!!

    tom
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Go Sox! (former fan from the old days)

    1. LS 430- if it had an MB badge it'd be perfect

    I still think this is the best option at any price. A very slick car.

    2. XJ Vanden Plas- all aluminum, really nice piece of work. English comfort, style, it's different, and if she really wants more power there's always the XJR.

    Even good Jags are still Jags, I would eliminate it completely. Not dependable cars, and expensive to maintain.

    3. STS- but I'm concerned because it's the first year

    Nice car, possible quality/resale concerns.

    4. A8L- nice car, but I don't think she'll buy into the Audi name

    See Jag comments.

    5. S500- I just can't see plunking down $90k on a car that's going to be replaced next year.

    Agree!

    6. 745iL- But I don't see her using i-drive, which means she won't be able to control a lot of stuff in the car, like the radio!

    Agree!

    7. A Legacy GT ltd, an OB VDC, and an STi- just had to throw that in. ;-). But it's not a bad idea!

    You are a cock-eyed optimist!

    Craig
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Tom, you're suggesting the Legacy GT, yet the Acura RL doesn't make the cut?!?!?!

    Am I missing something here???

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Mike- I totally agree with you. With Saab they could make a move upmarket much more easily. Do people really care where Saabs are made?

    HERESY!!! YES THEY DO!!!

    How about a Lexus GS400 for Mom?

    Dem Sox are keeping me up way too late!!
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Whew, been living in the motor home after selling the house the middle of August. After trying to keep up with the forum via cell phone (19.2 kb) have finally decided to get on a faster connection once and while.

    No new house so it's off to Arizona the 1st of Nov for the winter. Next spring we'll start construction of a new house fitting our criteria.

    Still on the fence with new OB's. Kinda waiting for a 6-spd with the 6 cylinder.

    MNSteve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You gotta include Subies, Bob!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Juice, the issue is not Subies, but IMAGE.

    Tom feels that Acura does not have enough of an upscale image to be consdered a contender here. Well, if that's the case, how did Subaru make the cut???

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I disagree, the issue is Subies! :o)

    He inserted a winky emoticon to imply he was joking. It was an inside joke among Subaru buddies, that's all.

    Even if he is serious, giving Subaru a free pass due to personal emotion, well, Acura would be envious of the way Subaru's customers feel.

    -juice
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