Subaru Crew Cafe

hypov

lol I bet swampy would never even noticed had no one commented

-Dave

p0926

There was an article in the paper the other day listing the median car-buying age by make and I was surprised to see Subaru had close to the youngest demographic (something like 31.6 IIRC).

-Frank

rsholland

http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2005/02/18/036676.html

ateixeira

Ocean City has most of the major restaurant chains, at least 2 of the 3 Loosh mentioned.

Edmunds should require an actual post, not just a title. Then swampy would be in trouble. LOL

Graham: I plead guilty. I still find it unnatural to use a title.

Quadrasteer was nice but the price was crazy. A DVD entertainment system costs less and it's more visible, tangible.

XUV? Too heavy, too much for a small gain, perhaps?

-juice

ateixeira

Answers to questions above:

Yes.

No.

Maybe.

DEFINITELY.

Orange.

Chocolate babies.

)

-juice

jon_in_ct

ateixeira wrote:

Edmunds should require an actual post, not just a title. Then swampy would be in trouble. LOL

Graham: I plead guilty. I still find it unnatural to use a title.

If you want to reply to someone's post, then you should be using the REPLY button. That does two good things (at this point in time):
1) Provides a link back to the post to which you're responding;
2) Provides an automatic title.

To open discussion of a new topic, then title it with a terse summary of the subject of the new topic.

It does appear that Edumunds is moving toward threaded discussions, which would advance it closer to the sophistication of the Usenet from 15 years ago.

In a threaded discussion environment you usually don't see the body of the post until you click on its title, and a message with only a title and no text in the body generally includes the sequence "(NT)" at the end of the title as a courtesy to indicate there's "no text" in the body of the post and that the complete message is contained in the title.

grahampeters

G'day

I actually prefer the mixed discussions on Edmunds rather than Threaded Discussions. I liken it to chatting in a pub with a large group of friends. Their might be three or four conversations going on at once and everyone can chooses to move between them. Threaded Discussios tendto be more like a coffee lounge where you have to get up and move between booths. It's hellon your feet and you can never find somewehere tpo park your butt as you change converations. The only problem I have is losing the thread of what each discussion is about, particularly when I come in 10 hours arfter everyone else and find there is a really fascinating answer that I can't see the question to.

I'll stick with the pub model.

Incidentally, it's your shout!

Cheers

Graham

locke2c

the pub model works great as long as the crowd isn't too big, too rowdy, or too drunk.

then it's chaos.

I like the Edmunds format because I see everything, and I can still skim. On large threaded forums, I don't even bother reading a majority of things-- I just skim interesting topic titles or things that someone I know has authored/posted in.

~Colin

jon_in_ct

Non-threaded discussions, like chat-rooms, can really only function well when relatively few people are participating (think in terms of dozens). When you have thousands (which, I think is Edmunds' goal), then you'll have, as locke2c observed, chaos.

Consider the plight of someone joining the Edmunds Subaru discussions for the first time looking for info about the Tribeca. That discussion is already nearing 2000 posts and the discussion only began when SOA announced in December that its seven-seater would be called the B9X (oops). Consider how incredibly difficult it would be to skim from the beginning of that discussion when you have to look at the complete text and graphics of every post in the order it was posted, especially on a dial-up. Now consider if that discussion had been threaded from the start. Skimming would then involve looking just at the post titles and their relationships. For instance, the new Edmunds member could speed past the 100s of auto-show-picture posts in a flash if they weren't of interest to him/her, in order to devote his/her time reading posts involving specifications, whether engine power is adequate, etc..

Heck, think how hard it is nowadays for any active participant to "catch up" if they've been gone for a few weeks. Think how hard it is to understand someone who's responding (without hitting REPLY) to what appeared to him to be the last post in the discussion (i.e. he figures his response will be the next post directly below the one he's responding to) when, in fact, dozens of other people have posted in the meantime.

ateixeira

What I like about Edmunds' format is that it keeps track of the last post you read. You subscrive and then just use the Message Center to see how many new posts in each thread that interests you.

No wasted time, and you only see what you like.

-juice

jon_in_ct

First, if you were replying to my last post, then you didn't need to come up with a title, you only needed to hit the Reply option.

EVERY modern bulletin-board, newsgroup, forum system can keep track of what you last viewed. They also allow you to mark stuff you don't care to read as having been "read" even though you haven't viewed it. It appears Edmunds is determined to re-invent the wheel on this. No matter. Once you get more than a few dozen active participants at any one moment, threaded is better.

ladywclass

i like it the way it is ... I agree with juice that if you put in what you want in subscriptions, you just click message center .. some days there ARE a lot of messages .. i just sort of scan through and read the ones i want ... if I were going through a threaded discussion ... doesn't mean it's always on topic either, and I might miss something that I didn't know I needed to find .. (or something like that)

hypov

I like the current, and am accustomed to the format, I have to agree with Jon.

We have been here at the site for a while, regularly too, and I'm certain we're quite immuned to the detering effects of the present format.

Imagine ourselves a visitor, new to the site; then imagine what you'll be thinking when you look at the discussion title "Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X) (Future Vehicles) - 1892" all new post.
The viewer may not hang around to go through all that and Edmunds loses.

-Dave

ladywclass

that you're not an 'enthusiast' the way some of you guys are and that you just want some info not necessarily knowing WHAT info ... this is an informal way to get a lot of info by scanning ... and watch, when someone does ASK a question, there is one (or more) ready to help them find the answer ...

just because it was tne answer last week or last month or last year ... doesn't mean it's still the same valid answer now ... information changes ...

kens

The Edmund's format works for me too (or rather I've become accustomed to it).

While it does avoid the chaos, it does put more emphasis on recent topics -- at least for me.

Ken

ateixeira

Jon: I'm aware of the Reply feature, thing is, I'm a motor-mouth and I'm usually talking to 5 people at once. So I put the name first to call your attention.

I'll have to get tips on how to use other forums, none are as easy for me as this one FWIW.

-juice

hammerhead

I strongly dislike the threaded style. I like the Edmund's conversational form better.

Except right now I'm not very conversational. Came down with the virus du jour that the whole rest of the family has already had. Just when I thought I'd dodged the bullet...

Oh, well, back to the couch, under the comforter, in front of the fireplace. Doesn't sound too bad after all!

Cheers! (and AHCHOO!)
Paul

jon_in_ct

Given the simplistic organization of the Edmunds discussions, one might expect it to be relatively fast. Yet I find the opposite is true. Compared to NASIOC, it takes at least twice as long to load up an Edmunds page. Go figure.

c_hunter

A lot of things about the Edmunds website & forums are poorly executed and not as good as sites like NASIOC. I think this is a case of Edmunds paying for lousy "commercial" web services. Sites like NASIOC, being run as enthusiast sites, are using open source forum software and running on basic Linux servers (or a single PC server in many cases -- like LegacyGT.com) so that efficiency and speed are important to them.

Craig

jfl

Paul - get well soon!

Change is difficult. I like catching up on Edmunds as it's set-up now. I can get through the discussions I want to read fairly quickly and know what's going on with everyone.

What we share isn't so much topical but more rambling conversations among friends.

My $0.02.

Jim

rsholland

is only 2 inches shorter than a Chevy Suburban!

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=4053&categor- yId=12

Bob

p0926

I agree with Graham, I prefer the current "pub style" format. While Edmunds may have tens of thousands of regular visitors, in actuality there really are only a few dozen active participants in any single discussion. And this might be the epitome of selfishness but personally I'd rather see Edmunds cater to the regulars rather than the countless lurkers and one-time posters. Besides, I suspect that many people find it fascinating to read through a topic and discover numerous answers to questions they never thought to ask. It’s also been my observation that those who don’t have the time or patience to skim thru an entire topic simply re-ask the question.

-Frank

rsholland

tests the midsize SUVs.

http://automobilemag.com/reviews/suvs/0502_suv/index.html

Bob

p0926

The referenced article has the most succinct explanation yet for why 3rd-row seating in SUVs is such a hot item:

The introduction of the third-row seat has allowed some SUVs to further encroach on the minivan's turf as the family vehicle of choice. If the comfort of those banished to the back row is a top priority, then none of these mid-size SUVs is truly the answer. What a third-row seat offers is one final, credible rationalization to keep a minivan out of the garage.

-Frank

hondafriek

I will throw my 2 cents in here and say I prefer the current set up works for me.

Cheers Pat.

rsholland

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=34&article_id=- - 9164

...And there's mention of a rumored 300 hp Forester STi!

Bob

rsholland

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101847

rob_m

me too. Rob M.

volkov

is only 2 inches shorter than a Chevy Suburban!

So what are they doing with the space? My 'Burb has 5' behind the second door, that Merc has maybe 3'. Can't believe that there's gonna be much cargo room behind a third row in that vehicle. Nice HP numbers, but I wonder what the torque for the non diesels will be.

Nicholas

ateixeira

Bob - G class looks much better, too. They made it three decades newer.

C&D 5Best: read that last week. Kudos to the XT, which they singled out. That tells me they think the base model needs more than 165hp.

Geneva should be interesting...not sure I like that new Miata's face, though.

-juice

njswamplands

To begin, we thought we'd give you the two most highly anticipated numbers. Arriving in Lexus showrooms on April 15, 2005, the RX 400h will be priced at $48,535 MSRP [1].

Perhaps one of the most stunning attributes of the RX 400h is its impressive performance. Combining the power output from its electric drive motors and the 3.3-liter V6 engine, gives you brisk acceleration from 0 to 60 in 7.3 seconds [2], outperforming many of its V8-equipped competitors.


Even with its enhanced performance, the RX 400h still gives you the optimal mileage and low emissions that you expect from a hybrid. The estimated combined fuel-economy rating of 28 mpg [3] equals the average for compact sedans. And its estimated EPA city fuel-economy rating is even better. At 30 mpg, the RX 400h's city mileage more than doubles those of many V8-equipped luxury SUVs.

jfl

Wow Swampy, that must be your longest post ever... 8~)

Jim

njswamplands

it was a copy and paste, does not count.

btw here is more copy and paste ( that high price includes a nav system but not the nice audio system or the rear dvd which would push this vehicle way beyound 50k )

Comfort and Luxury
- Brushed-aluminum accents
- Voice-activated DVD navigation system [5]
- Automatic dual-zone climate control with smog-sensing air filtration
- 10-way adjustable driver's power seat with memory function
- Power rear door with remote keyless entry
- Available Mark Levinson [6] audio system with 11 speakers and in-dash,
six-disc CD auto-changer
- Available DVD Rear-Seat Entertainment System (RSES) with remote
control, wireless headphones and seven-inch LCD
- 38 cu ft [7] of rear cargo capacity; 84 cu ft [7] with rear seats
folded down
- Illuminated entry system

Safety
- Front dual-stage airbags Supplemental Restraint System (SRS) [8],
driver's-knee airbag, front seat-mounted side airbags and side curtain
airbags
- Welded-steel unibody frame, side-impact door beams and impact-
dissipating front and rear crumple zones
- Rollover sensor
- Backup camera [9]
- Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFS)
- High-Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps
- Rain-sensing wipers

ok juice time for trifecta vs rx400h comparison as i can not see how i could ever justify 10k+ of price variance

kenoka

There is definitely more of a community feeling here at Edmunds, and I do enjoy that, as many of you seem to. However I do feel I must bring up the issue of "keeping up". In a threaded discussion, if you miss out, you can skip topics as you feel like, or join them later. There was a period of time that I didn't come to the Edmunds board, and there were thousands of messages that I missed. I pretty much just skipped them all, where in a threaded discussion board, I would have looked into topics I was more interested in. I think new members have a similarly daunting view as well. I remember when I started, slogging through thousands of messages, many of them not really relevant to what I was looking for.

ateixeira

Bob's XTerra test:

rsholland, "Town Hall Test Drive Team" #145, 22 Feb 2005 5:52 pm

Let's see how it sells. $25k ain't cheap for bare bones. The old one left tons of room for improvement, too.

RX400H sounds great. But that price will mean only people with 10,000 square foot homes can afford them. Homes that require all the power of a small African city.

So much for saving the environment.

-juice

rsholland

$25k ain't cheap for bare bones.

Not in today's market. Even Jeep Wranglers are in that price range, or higher—and it doesn't get any more bare-bone than that! I'd put the new Xterra up against any similarly priced truck-based SUV. Actually the only one the Xterra really competes against is the Liberty, and I would pick it over the Jeep.

Actually MSRPs for 4x4 models start at $22.9K. See link below, and click on 2005 Xterra, then pricing.

http://www.nissannews.com/?http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/n- - issan2004/pathfinder.shtml

Bob

rsholland

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101860

robr2

But that price will mean only people with 10,000 square foot homes can afford them. Homes that require all the power of a small African city.

I wouldn't say that - plenty of folks around here living in 900 sq ft condos and 1500 sq foot houses that cost $500K plus. A 10K sq foot house in these parts would be in $2-3 million area I'd venture. If I could afford that, I'd be driving something a little nicer than a Lexus.

Also with leasing, even a schlub like me could afford one.

ateixeira

If you're looking for cheap wheels the Element comes in under $20k even well equipped.

But yeah, among the truck-based SUVs it's cheaper than the Liberty. I liked the Jeep better than the old XTerra, however.

-juice

ateixeira

Looks decent, better than the Ibuki concept, from which it took a couple of cues.

I like the rear view and the flares. The headlights look a little soft, feminine even. Big thumbs up for the roll hoops.

From the rear I give it a perfect score. The front could be more aggressive.

-juice

Kirstie_H

A magazine reporter is looking to photograph an Edmunds.com user and his/her car in Northern California by Friday, March 4, 2005. If you are in the area and care to participate, please reply to jfallon@edmunds.com with the name of your city as well as the month and year when you bought your most recent car after researching it on Edmunds.com.

p0926

Yo Ken, this has your name all over it :-)

-Frank

p0926

Hey I saw a Toyota Camry commercial the other day that backfired as far as I'm concerned. It showed the view from an overhead surveillance camera in a crowded big-box type store when a voice announces over the PA system that there's a Camry in the lot that has to be moved and suddenly all the store patrons start heading for the front exit. The tag line was that the Camry is the best-selling car in America. Rather than making me want to have one, my take on it was that why on earth would I want to own the same vehicle as everyone else? Where's the fun in that? Of course that's one reason why many of us are driving Subarus :-)

-Frank

robr2

There's comfort in numbers.

jfl

Frank,

In late 1999, I kinda cross-shopped a Camry before I got my Legacy. But the only serious contenders were really the Audi A4 (no rear seat legroom) and the Passat 4motion (vaporcar). In either case, I could buy three Subies for the price of two of the other cars.

I think I clearly made the right choice!

Jim

fibber2

I love the Edmunds format. This is the only site I go to virtually every day. I pick up valuable data, share what I know, and converse with my virtual extended family about everything and nothing. We kid, jab, harass, commiserate, encourage, etc., in a way that just doesn't happen on a threaded forum. When I am looking for pure data quickly, I might also visit some of the other popular Subaru venues, but I am not a registered member of any of them, nor do I really care to be.

This place is unique and special, and I hope they do not mess with the formula.

Steve

njswamplands

what he said

hondafriek

Well said Steve, my sentiments exactly, I think back to last summer when we were going through that horrendous time with our daughter.

No way we would we have gotten that kind of support and camaradarie on a threaded forum.

Cheers Pat.

subearu

I thought when this was first brought up that it wasn't going to be all or nothing. I thought the intent was to allow the members to choose their threaded or not settings via the preferences screen. Can any mods verify this?

-Brian

Karen_S

Yes. Members will be able to choose linear (like it is now) or threaded. I don't know for sure what the default will be, but I imagine it will be linear.